davdud101
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How to politely tell a client...
Hey, everyone. I have a potential client at the moment to whom I must explain that I won't do any work without a down payment beforehand. How can I politely tell him this? Better yet, maybe we could make a list of equivalent statements here that would be a okay, non-rude/forceful ways to explain things to a client?
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Splat
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Re: How to politely tell a client...
2015/02/14 10:54:52
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You tell them straight.... Best in a middle of a friendly conversation. They should respect you for that, if they don't they probably aren't worth working with anyway.
I generally start with a phrase beginning with 'well I have to put on my business cap on here'...
Don't lack confidence when you say this, humans can detect a deer in the lights several miles away.
Remember they want something and so do you. Acknowledge it or feel awkward..
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michaelhanson
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Re: How to politely tell a client...
2015/02/14 11:13:57
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Yep, agreed. Slide it into a friendly conversation. Be nonchalant, yet confident when you say it. If they go away, the business was not going to be worth the headache.
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davdud101
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Re: How to politely tell a client...
2015/02/14 12:12:09
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I certainly don't NEED the business with this client. What kind of more casual conversation do you guys think could be appropriate? It's a small game design team (really quite small). Maybe that's my point of conversation, haha!
post edited by davdud101 - 2015/02/14 20:39:46
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bapu
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Re: How to politely tell a client...
2015/02/14 13:40:19
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☄ Helpfulby Rain 2015/02/15 15:34:22
Put a sticker on your forehead?
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mixmkr
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Re: How to politely tell a client...
2015/02/14 14:04:52
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"ok...so to get started, I require a down payment of $__. Did you want to go ahead and pay that now?" I would assume all conversation to be of the friendly nature. You can't be this shy over this kind of stuff..., because what's going to happen when the bass player says he's not going out to pick up the pizza anymore?
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Jeff Evans
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Re: How to politely tell a client...
2015/02/14 16:19:06
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It sort of depends on how much you are talking about. Have you got any idea at all what this job is worth? If I was transferring a tape to CD or something like that and the cost was going to be $250 or even $500 I doubt I would ask for a down payment. Once the size of the job gets to say $1000 then I just say to the client a down payment is needed to get started. (I often ask for a third up front, a third about half way through and the final third on completion. If a job spans several months then we work out a payment plan. It is very important to have money coming in on a regular basis over a longer job) How much do you think the job is worth to you? What is their budget? Are they the same? Probably not. Money is very important and you need to get that sorted out first!! You might think the job is worth $2000 and they might think the job will cost $200. Don't get all the way to the end to find that out please. Find out before you start. Then you might save a whole bunch of time. If you cannot handle the money side of the business then you are not going to make it producing music professionally and getting paid to do so. Professional music production is very much a business thing too. Musicians are notorious for being terrible in this area. Learn about it! Clients actually like it when you are confident and direct about money. It instills confidence in them in you.
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gswitz
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Re: How to politely tell a client...
2015/02/14 16:25:49
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omg people get paid for this??
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soens
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Re: How to politely tell a client...
2015/02/14 16:44:50
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... I don't.
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sharke
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Re: How to politely tell a client...
2015/02/14 16:49:31
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I learned very quickly that you NEVER flinch when giving someone a price. As soon as they detect fear or apprehension in your voice, they have the upper hand. Tell them straight with confidence as if it's the most normal, reasonable thing in the world.
Many years ago I worked the Christmas markets in Manhattan selling overpriced gel candles. One year we had a lovely girl working with us but she would become positively apologetic when giving prices to customers. She would wince visibly and stammer her way through an explanation until boom, she'd talked herself out of a sale. It was funny to watch (especially when she turned bright red when mentioning the sales tax) but she was terrible at selling.
A few years ago I introduced a service agreement for my current business which outlines a penalty fee if clients cancel appointments without adequate notice. It's pretty standard, but in the beginning I would tie myself in knots trying to explain and justify it to clients, and as soon as they detected this weakness they would pounce and try and argue against it. Now I just lay it on the line as if it were part of the constitution and they don't even question it. Confidence will get you everywhere.
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Guitarhacker
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Re: How to politely tell a client...
2015/02/15 08:22:50
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Yup.... I work on projects that are, at times pretty large. (in my day job) As part of the conversation, and I don't look for a special place to insert this line.... but I simply state, "as soon as I get a down payment of $____ I can put this one the schedule and order the parts I need to get started." The very same thing applies to the music biz.... if the project is big enough, simply stating that you need a down payment to get started and reserve studio space and time is normal business practice. Asking if they would like to pay that now, puts them in the spot to either pay or not. Either way you know exactly what's going on and the client knows exactly how much this will cost. Read Jeff's post again. Establish the price and your requirements and expectations up front and be confident. In my daily business, I state all these things up front and I'm ready to walk if the customer tries to argue with me on one of the points in a way that seems to indicate they will be hard to work with on the job. Heck I even give them my competitor's name and tell them to call my competitors if I'm sensing they are trying to be a pain.
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sharke
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Re: How to politely tell a client...
2015/02/15 14:55:47
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Guitarhacker Heck I even give them my competitor's name and tell them to call my competitors if I'm sensing they are trying to be a pain.
I'm actually on good terms with some of my competitors to the point where I will call them to warn them about "difficult" customers I've refused to work with. Although I will admit to having steered a-holes to competitors I've had trouble with, lol....
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Guitarhacker
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Re: How to politely tell a client...
2015/02/16 09:03:13
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sharke
Guitarhacker Heck I even give them my competitor's name and tell them to call my competitors if I'm sensing they are trying to be a pain.
I'm actually on good terms with some of my competitors to the point where I will call them to warn them about "difficult" customers I've refused to work with. Although I will admit to having steered a-holes to competitors I've had trouble with, lol....
LOL... yup, exactly. I'm on good terms with most of my competitors. I even have lunch with one of them from time to time. He used to be my boss, but it's all good now. At our last lunch, he told me that he has instructed his wife to call me to handle his business when he passes, as he is up in years now and his heart health is getting shaky, and for us to work out an equitable deal for remuneration to her for the business. That one floored me. I do have one competitor that I specifically refer the ...shall we say... more difficult folks to. I actually lost a customer to this one guy.... but... every time I had to deal with that customer and would give them a price for the work, they were always trying to get 20% or more added to the job for free and trying to make me feel like a clod if I said no. And 99% of the time I did say no. But that's not my problem any more..... and I refer other equally troublesome potential customers to him..... " You'd probably be happier dealing with ______. You should call him, his prices are much lower than mine"
My website & music: www.herbhartley.com MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface BMI/NSAI "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer "
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davdud101
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Re: How to politely tell a client...
2015/02/16 19:16:32
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Oh man, I ended up having to cut the business relation sort of like that. He offered royalties on sales... I told him that I have to be guaranteed a minimum amount before hand. His argument was that (given that he's working on no budget) HE has no guarantee that he'll get and return on his own time, etc... I sent him off hoping he'd find someone who can do it for free or will take royalties. This experience has shown me just how important it is to be a good businessman in this industry. I'm gonna be more confident in the future, because the frilly, ultra-polite speech (aside from not really showing who I really am) doesn't really make talking turkey any easier.
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Guitarhacker
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Re: How to politely tell a client...
2015/02/18 08:02:23
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A promise for a cut of royalties doesn't pay the bills. Unless it's a big superstar who isn't about to hit bottom again.....and they're not walking into your studio any time soon.....so.... If he offered a 50% royalty and sold enough to get $50 in royalties, would you be happy with that $25? Would that cover your costs? And seriously, if the guy doesn't have the money to record, he doesn't have the money to promote it which means his sales numbers will be much closer to ZERO. And 50% of ZERO is....... yup, you guessed it.... nada! Don't feel bad for telling him to go elsewhere..... you saved yourself a ton of grief. It's the ones who want it for nothing that also seem to be the most demanding folks.... "I don't like that, can we change this, I'm not feeling this version lets start from scratch and try something different"..... Nope, just let them go..... the next deadbeat will be easier to deal with.
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dwardzala
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Re: How to politely tell a client...
2015/02/18 08:25:18
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I don't even think that type of arrangement is standard in the industry. A cut of royalties might be a sweetener but I am pretty sure there is always a guaranteed cash payment for work done. Let those guys walk, as GH said above, the ones who expect things for free are usually the biggest pains to work with since they don't value anybody's time and effort but their own.
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jackson white
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Re: How to politely tell a client...
2015/02/18 19:58:31
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CakeAlexS You tell them straight....
absolutely. sharke ... as if it's the most normal, reasonable thing in the world.
It IS the most normal reasonable thing for a business. sharke Confidence will get you everywhere.
+1 on confidence. It is the mark of a professional. ... I start by asking, 1. What are your goals? (in specific terms. i.e. how many sides, etc. ) 2. How much time would they like to plan for? (taken with a grain of salt for the profiles being referenced) Then pull out the calendar or bring in the admin and say ... "We can book these dates -when- we get the down payment. I can hold them open for 2 days (or 2 weeks depending on the timing of the project). Always a clear hard number. And then move on. A comment on future royalties. They're called spec jobs and while producers have been known to take points for select clients, I can't recommend it -unless- your client has a proven track record or your ambition/talent is artist management and promotion. Sounds like you have more sense than that.
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rumleymusic
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Re: How to politely tell a client...
2015/02/18 23:35:37
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What is the down payment for? Do you need equipment to do the job? Are you reserving space? Is it a trust issue? I'm not begrudging anyone who requires a down payment, it is just something to think about when explaining it to the client. Just tell them it is your policy. I never charge a down payment personally. I simply do not trust independent contractors in any line of work who want money up front and I have never had a non-payment issue since I started my business. If you own a studio which requires time reservations and expect the clientele to be flakes (like young bands) then I completely understand and you should get some upfront security for the work. Like most people say here, it is your policy, it is non negotiable, and it is the most normal thing in the world. At least that is how you should approach it to your client. Edit: I just read the royalty thing. Obviously never, ever, ever, ever, ever. You are not their publisher, you don't have direct control over distribution and sales. You will not see a dime. But you knew that and did the right thing: passed them off. I used to do free recordings for student groups and sell CD's to the students. After a few recordings of 2, 1, or 0 sales, I took that option off the plate. It is flat fees and hourly rates.
post edited by rumleymusic - 2015/02/18 23:44:21
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Truckermusic
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Re: How to politely tell a client...
2015/02/20 14:57:58
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Always remember that there is nothing wrong with being a proper business person. You can still be friendly about it ....but right up front you discuss your business out line, what it will cost the client, what the down payment will be, what the total fees will be and when is complete payment expected and what the expected out come will be....this way both parties know up front what to expect. After all....when you go to a dentist or a doctor before you even get into the back office they ask you for your Co-Pay right? Why should your business be any different? If you run it like a business then it will be a business... If you waiver and fall all over yourself then you need to change your focus and concentrate on fun.... A quick story.. I remember one christmas on a Tuesday afternoon a guy called me up to ask if I would play classical guitar at his home for a dinner party on Saturday night. He wanted me to play for 4 hours. He asked my price. I told him $350.00. He choked and said that was a lot and would I consider taking $50. I asked him does he negotiate his daily pay EVERY DAY he goes to work? No! Why would you expect me to then?....He said he would think about it and hung up.....On Friday he called back and asked if I would reconsider...I said yes....it will now be $400 and it would be 50% up front at the door before I came in and in cash. He said fine. I got $400, played for about 4 and a hlaf hours and got a bottle of sparkling grape juice for a tip! Sometimes you win....sometimes you lose...but at least I tried to run it like a business... Just saying
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