How to save MIDI file with muted tracks?

How do I save a MIDI file with muted tracks?  Each time I do this and re-open the file the tracks are in-muted.  I'm sure there must be a way to do this.
 
Thanks
 
Tim

hmmmmmm... that seems odd as I do have some MIDI files I've acquired along the way that do indeed have muted tracks when you open them in SONAR.

Yup.  There are .mid.  I actually have a number of them that open with muted tracks.  I would attach one here if there was a way to do so.

HI:)
 
>>hmmmmmm... that seems odd as I do have some MIDI files I've acquired along the way that do indeed have muted >>tracks when you open them in SONAR.
 
Interesting!! I've looked in some of my acquired Midifiles, and there are some files with muted tracks in it!!
 
I've by hand "MIDI Programmer's Handbook" from Steve de Furia and there's no way to mute any tracks in a standard midi file.
 
So how does this work??
 
Would be nice for me to know:)
 
The only possibility I can think of is to make a ".kar" (Karaoke File) which has different specifications and rename it to *.mid
 
Possibly....
 
Bassman.

So it cannot be done.
Next question is: why do you want to do it?
 
Often there is a way to get the result you need without using a feature that does not exist.

slartabartfast
So it cannot be done.
Next question is: why do you want to do it?
 
Often there is a way to get the result you need without using a feature that does not exist.

With regards as to the why, I have some situations where I don't want certain tracks to play but sometimes I do.  It would be terrific to be able to simply mute the tracks I don't want to play at the time and save it that way.  Instead what I've been doing is creating copies of the original file and deleting certain tracks and saving and naming them so I know what tracks are not there.  If there is an easier way to do that I would appreciate hearing about it.

Look for the volume slider on the track header or inspector in Sonar. Set it to zero. If there are no volume events or envelopes anywhere else, that track will not make sound. Then write your .mid file and see if the track got written, etc.

'Q' is MIDI Volume in this screenshot of a MIDI track header:
 

When you save a project as a MIDI file, the value of this control will be written to the file as a CC7 continuous controller event. Conversely, when you open such a file, the CC7=0 event will be read into the Volume control widget in SONAR and removed from the clip. Every time you start playback, SONAR sends a CC7 message on the basis of this control setting, so the result is the same as having the event in the MIDI clip.
 
But l'm starting to wonder why you're saving files as .MID at all. Are you working with these files in another application?

just a little further fyi -- if I remember correctly -- the file type 0 -- was optimized for web use back in the early days of the good old interweb -- so it was a way to really streamline those cheesy midi files that use to play when you would open a page 
 

There is a danger here if you set a midi files volume to zero and save it, Then you open it and move the volume to say 10, the minute you hit play it will return to zero. 
One of Sonars weaknesses is the event list does not show everything.  I have to open some files < they are my own  creations, in Anvil Studio just to make these changes because there's no way in Sonar to do it. Like PG changes. 
 
What are you using these files for, Live performance? 

yes Cactus Music I have had trouble with that too -- the volume controller doesn't show up in the event list -- it seems like I remember seeing in another thread somewhere that there is another way to get to it (the volume controller command) but I can't remember what it that method was -- I sure wish I knew because I do spend some time working with old midi files where time is of the essence and I need to be able to control the volumes of the tracks for a remix.
 
perhaps if I change the volume setting on the midi track header that  Brundlefly has referenced above, perhaps that changes the value of any invisible volume control command that would be sitting in the track data?

Cactus Music
 
So the only solution I have found is open the file in a REAL sequencer and delete what you don't want. 
 If anyone here has figured this one out let me know.
 
 

I can remember when Cakewalk was a real MIDI sequencer!

I agree that all MIDI data should be viewable.  No point in dumbing it down.

"With regards to your question about wonder why I'm saving files as .mid, why wouldn't I?  I am using the files to drive a sound module for live stage performance."
 
It helps us understand what your trying to do. I now have a very clear idea of what your doing. 
I used to use midi files back in the 80's for my backing tracks so been there done that. 
And I'm totally aware of the need to kill certain tracks if say that night you have a real bass player. 
 
Back then a friend of mine used a Roland Sound brush and a Dr Synth sound module which all you had to do was push a button to toggle playback channels. The instrument sounds were pretty good in those days but now would be considered cheesy. 
 
I still have my Korg 05 R/W module which was my band in 1991, I got tired of lugging around an Atari computer and in mid 90's switched to Sony Mini disks for a decade.  I recorded all my sequences to mini disk using the Korg as a sound source. The transfers had to be in real time at first, later Sony came out with software for drag and drop. 
This was cool, was the exact same sound live in a very small box. But I had to pack around a bunch of disks and set lists where not flexible. 
But My son started playing bass so now I needed tracks that were just the drums and keyboards. PITA. it was easier just to drag the old Atari around and mute the bass channel in the Korg. 
 
I got my first Laptop in 2004 and have been living in playback heaven ever since. 
With the much better VST synths that have hugely improved since those days I still use my old sequences and breath new life into them with Sonars amazing pallet of sounds. My Korg has some pretty cool polysynths but the drums and bass are terrible, I can't believe I subjected all those people to that for almost 15 years! 
 
I've been using WAVE files played back in Win Amp since 2004. At first I used close to the same format as the Korg because all I had was TTS-1 in Guitar Studio. I started recording real bass too. The drums are what have been improving over time for me as I progressed through Session drummer, AD2 and now I'm loving Strike2.
 
I have no need to change my playback live, it's exactly what I want night after night.
 
My new project is to use Home Studio instead of Win Amp and have multi channel output and midi back to change my Effects for each song, just like I did in the 80's. Have you ever though about using Sonars playlist? or is this why your wanting muted channels?  
 

We are not a large enough market anymore, live performers. It's all DJ's now so nobody is making software for us. The Dj's have a lot to choose from, we have only DAW's which are out to lunch for live playback. 
I had better software on my Atari for live performance of midi. 
Jeff Koftonoffs Midi Performer. 
Lyrics would pop up, foot controller. easy set list management. And it never crashed unless the power went out..