How to save and recall two mix settings

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JazzSinger
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2009/04/05 17:48:56 (permalink)

How to save and recall two mix settings

When I record a band, all the levels are set for maximum-before-clipping.

When the band wants to hear a rough mix of what I just recorded, I have to adjust the mix, which means messing up my recording levels.

How can I set up two mixes and switch between them quickly?
#1

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    twisted6s
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    RE: How to save and recall two mix settings 2009/04/05 18:01:26 (permalink)
    Save the 2 mixes under different .cwp file names and bring them both up at the same time. Make sure you have "Allow only one project at a time" unchecked in the Global Options/General.

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    #2
    corrupted
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    RE: How to save and recall two mix settings 2009/04/05 19:11:20 (permalink)
    I think you are confused...
    Sonar (or any DAW as far as I know) doesn't adjust recording levels... you can record with the fader all the way down at -inf and it will still record at the same level. Your audio interface is the only thing that can adjust the record level.

    In other words, you can have all of the tracks mixed however you want BEFORE you record and the end result would be the same. Raw audio is raw audio.
    #3
    dariunas
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    RE: How to save and recall two mix settings 2009/04/05 19:50:34 (permalink)
    corrupted, I'm guessing that what he's referring to is merely the gain on each tracks, so the levels for everything peak at 0.0dB?

    Either way, think twisted has nailed an answer for you - that you're gonna need so save a copy of your project for previewing purposes for the band each time... Would be nice to be able to save fader settings, but another save (project version) is a good enough workaround methinks...
    post edited by dariunas - 2009/04/05 21:25:55
    #4
    David
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    RE: How to save and recall two mix settings 2009/04/05 20:11:10 (permalink)
    Yes," save as" is a great way to do this, you always have your last mix to fall back on this way after every change,
    The recording levels is a touch confusing though.

    David F

    #5
    Bristol_Jonesey
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    RE: How to save and recall two mix settings 2009/04/06 08:38:07 (permalink)
    dariunas - you're probably right in assuming this, but is it really the right way to record?

    If he hasn't enough gain to start with, he should be increasing it from his pre-amp, rather than anything else.

    And setting it to peak just below 0db isn't the most efficient use of the headroom provided by 24bit technology.

    Tracking at anything between -12db & -6db is a very common scenario with virtually everyone on this forum, he runs a very real danger of introducing digital clipping by tracking close to zero - and that cannot be "fixed in the mix".

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    #6
    corrupted
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    RE: How to save and recall two mix settings 2009/04/06 08:57:26 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: dariunas

    corrupted, I'm guessing that what he's referring to is merely the gain on each tracks, so the levels for everything peak at 0.0dB?

    Either way, think twisted has nailed an answer for you - that you're gonna need so save a copy of your project for previewing purposes for the band each time... Would be nice to be able to save fader settings, but another save (project version) is a good enough workaround methinks...

    But... that's my point... there IS no "gain on each track". There's an input trim control on the track input, but that has no bearing on the actual recording level. Again, you can record with the faders/trim/FX at whatever you want, and Sonar won't change the level of the recorded clip. The only way to change the level or tone of the recorded clip is through your preamp or audio interface.
    #7
    JazzSinger
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    RE: How to save and recall two mix settings 2009/04/06 14:39:05 (permalink)
    Yup, I was confused. With the faders all the way down, I still get unchanged recording levels!

    I have the Edirol UA-101, which has only two inputs with level pots. The other 6 inputs only have a -10/+4dB switch. Even the ASIO panel only changes the mix in the monitors.

    So I need a mixer with six inputs going to six outputs!?!

    H'm.

    But thanks for the help, I guess I just didn't want to believe my ears :)
    #8
    Bristol_Jonesey
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    RE: How to save and recall two mix settings 2009/04/06 15:20:11 (permalink)
    So, are trying to record the band live, or in a studio situation?

    Depending on your requirements, your gear needs will be slightly different.

    There are many, reasonably priced 8/16/20+ audio interfaces which you can run into Sonar, you don't necessarily need a mixer.

    Microphones? For a full band, you'll need a few.

    If you're recording in a studio, you can scale your mics etc back a bit and just record drums/bass, then overdub guitars/keys, then finally vocals.

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    #9
    Dave Modisette
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    RE: How to save and recall two mix settings 2009/04/06 15:54:10 (permalink)
    So I need a mixer with six inputs going to six outputs!?!
    Or you need a mixer with a line out on the input channels. The Soundcraft M series has a nice feature where you can disengage the channel line outs from the channel faders. That way you can have a hot signal (or low one) going to SONAR and hear another mix in the playback/control room monitors.
    post edited by Mod Bod - 2009/04/06 16:01:50

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    #10
    JazzSinger
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    RE: How to save and recall two mix settings 2009/04/07 17:59:06 (permalink)
    A reasonably priced audio interface with 20+ trimmable inputs?

    WOW!

    Could you tell me the name of one?

    My technique is to capture the band live in the studio and to retain as much of a live feel as possible, fixing only the real bloopers.

    Usually, after 5-6 takes, the musicians tire and things don't improve, feel-wise.

    For this reason, I try capture as many clean channels as early in the session as possible without disrupting the ability of the musicians to interact.

    ORIGINAL: Bristol_Jonesey

    So, are trying to record the band live, or in a studio situation?

    There are many, reasonably priced 8/16/20+ audio interfaces which you can run into Sonar, you don't necessarily need a mixer.

    If you're recording in a studio, you can scale your mics etc back a bit and just record drums/bass, then overdub guitars/keys, then finally vocals.

    post edited by JazzSinger - 2009/04/07 18:10:42
    #11
    Bristol_Jonesey
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    RE: How to save and recall two mix settings 2009/04/08 07:39:20 (permalink)
    My Saffire Pro can accomodate 26 tracks and costs about £350 over here. Ok, 16 of them are ADAT, so you'll need some way to A/D them - but it's still got 8 analog inputs, and the preamps are Focusrite quality.






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    #12
    CJaysMusic
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    RE: How to save and recall two mix settings 2009/04/08 08:00:24 (permalink)
    A reasonably priced audio interface with 20+ trimmable inputs?

    I hope your reasonable is over a grand. Most cards have 8 or 12 trimable inputs and there between $400 to $1600. youll need to of the same. I think Motu makes a 24channel one, im not too sure if there all trimable and its up there in price.
    Cj

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    #13
    ed97643
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    RE: How to save and recall two mix settings 2009/04/08 10:08:54 (permalink)
    You can daisy-chain two Mackie Onyx 1640 mixers via one firewire input for 32 channels in, all with great Onyx preamps. Might be perfect for you. Check them out.

    Best,
    Ed

    Registered Cakewalk user since 1995
    #14
    JazzSinger
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    RE: How to save and recall two mix settings 2009/04/12 11:11:53 (permalink)
    Mackie Onyx 1640 doesn't seem to be available anymore. The 1620 is sold by Thomann for 888 Euros.

    I settled for the Tascam US-1641. I am seriously impressed!

    14 analog inputs,
    8 of them are phantom-powered mic inputs with individual level pots,
    2 of them are line/hi-Z guitar switchable with individual level pots,
    4 are line-in -10/+4 switchables at the back,
    4 outputs, meaning at least one hardware effects is conceivably doable.

    ... And those mic preamps are QUIET! Better than the Edirol UA-101, and that wasn't bad either!

    Not quite 20 inputs, but for 429 Euros, I'm a happy camper!

    Thanks to all for the guidance.
    #15
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