How to substiitute another VST for an existing one?

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avgrafyx
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2013/09/27 19:52:00 (permalink)

How to substiitute another VST for an existing one?

I'm working on a piece of music that has eight MIDI tracks and eight VST synths in use. But having done the recording for each track, I decided that one of the synths doesn't have the type of sound I want for Track 3, so I deleted that synth and substituted another one, and reassigned the 'Out' setting for Track 3 to the new synth, but I can't get the new synth to respond to either my controller keyboard or the recorded performance for Track 3. The MIDI indicators are working, but the synth is not responding. If I have the synth's interface open, and click the mouse on the synth's onscreen keyboard, it outputs sound normally, so it isn't the output that's at fault, it's just not seeing the MIDI data. 
 
If I open a new Music Creator project and insert the same synth, it works just fine. It just goes wrong if I try to substitute another synth.
 
I'm sure I am not understanding something here - what am I missing?
 
 
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    scook
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    Re: How to substiitute another VST for an existing one? 2013/09/27 20:24:01 (permalink)
    If you are using MIDI tracks, each track has at least one associated audio track. You need to change both the output of the MIDI track and the input of the audio track(s) to complete the signal flow. If you are using instrument tracks, make sure that the instrument track does not split into a MIDI and audio track when the synth is deleted.
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    57Gregy
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    Re: How to substiitute another VST for an existing one? 2013/09/27 22:19:21 (permalink)
    How did you delete the synth?

    Greg 
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    #3
    avgrafyx
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    Re: How to substiitute another VST for an existing one? 2013/09/28 07:17:16 (permalink)
    Thanks for the suggestions - so far, I still can't get it to work.
     
    I will admit I get a bit confused by the way the tracks work. Here is my way of thinking about them - I am sure I am not quite getting it right, so any clarification of exactly how the tracks work would be really useful. I tend to think of them as if the MIDI recording track is equivalent to the MIDI Out data from a keyboard going to the MIDI In of a hardware synthesiser, and the track that's created when a virtual synth is inserted into the browser as being equivalent to the Audio output of the hardware synthesiser - is that right?
     
    I know that when I create a MIDI track (in this case, Track 3) and insert a virtual instrument, Track 3 records the performance from my A-800 Pro as long as its input is set (in my case) to 'A-Pro1', and as long as Track 3's output is assigned to the virtual instrument, the virtual instrument plays when I press a key or when I replay the recorded track. Inserting the virtual instrument creates a second track (in this case, Track 9, associated with the synth itself) that takes its input from the synth and outputs to whatever output is appropriate - in my case, a pair of ASIO outs.
     
    When I try to substitute a different synth for Track 3, I delete Track 9 (i.e. the one associated with the virtual instrument) by highlighting the track, right clicking on it and selecting Delete Track, (leaving the original MIDI Track 3 and its recorded performance in place). Then I delete the synth from the Browser (necessary because I already have the maximum of eight instruments in there) by highlighting it, right-clicking it and selecting Delete Synth.
     
    After that, I insert a new synth into the Browser. I re-assign Track's 3 output to the new synth and then go to the new track it created (in this case, it has become Track 16). I can see that Track 16's input is set to the new synth and that the output is set to the ASIO outs. But the synth won't respond to input from the keyboard and there's no MIDI indicator flashing against Track 16 (although I can see Track 3's MIDI indicator flashing) and if I start the song replay, again, Track 3's MIDI is clearly outputting but not getting to the new synth. In answer to your question, I checked and there's no other additional track being created, so I don't think that it's somehow splitting into two when the synth is deleted.
     
    I've also tried creating an entirely new MIDI track (in this case, Track 17) and setting that up with the new synth in the normal way - and that worked as it should - but then, when I copied the recorded performance data from Track 3 to Track 17, the same thing happened - the synth stopped getting MIDI data from either the recorded performance data or the controller keyboard. I thought at first maybe the recorded performance data might have got onto a different MIDI channel somehow, so I tried outputting from each of the other MIDI channels on my A-Pro to see if the synth would respond to incoming data from another channel, but still it wouldn't do anything.
     
    Very puzzling.
     
    Incidentally, is there any way of re-ordering the tracks in the Track Window? It can get a bit confusing when the recording track and the instrument track can be so far apart in the window sometimes. With my fuzzy old brain, having each Recording track and its associated Instrument track next to each other would be so helpful!
     
     
    #4
    scook
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    Re: How to substiitute another VST for an existing one? 2013/09/28 09:38:11 (permalink)
    You have the theory right, so it should just be a matter of putting it to practice. Start simple.
    Create an empty project.
    Add something to the synth rack.
    Uncheck everything in the "Insert Soft Synth Options" dialog except the "Synth Property Page".
    Add a patch to the synth.
    Add the audio and MIDI tracks to the track view.
    Set the audio in and MIDI out to the synth.
    Test the synth.
    Delete the synth with the "Delete associated tracks" unchecked.
    Add a different synth to the synth rack.
    Reconfigure the audio and MIDI tracks.
    Test the synth.
    If that all works add a second synth to the rack and perform the same exercise.
     
    When posting, it is better to use the names that CW defines for track types. There are two basic track types: audio and MIDI. There is a third track type that is a hybrid of audio and MIDI called an instrument track (aka. Simple Instrument Track). It can get confusing if you refer to tracks by other names. Do not use instrument track as a synonym for audio track. It is not an audio track, it is a hybrid track containing and audio and MIDI track.
     
    To reposition a track click-drag the track strip. The hot spot is roughly where C is pointing to in the illustration below (source: this page). You will see the cursor change to a doube-headed vertical arrow when the mouse is over the hot spot.
     
     
     
     
    post edited by scook - 2013/09/28 09:41:53
    #5
    57Gregy
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    Re: How to substiitute another VST for an existing one? 2013/09/28 09:40:17 (permalink)
    I'm not sure which browser you're referring to, but MC (which one? 4, 5, 6, 6T?) should have a Synth Rack view. That's where you delete synths. Is that what you mean?
    In my Cakewalk programs, you can drag/slide tracks and buses to reorder them. I don't have any newer versions of MC, though, so I don't know if that can still be done.

    Greg 
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    #6
    scook
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    Re: How to substiitute another VST for an existing one? 2013/09/28 09:43:01 (permalink)
    The synth rack is a tab in the browser in MC6T.
    #7
    scook
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    Re: How to substiitute another VST for an existing one? 2013/09/28 10:03:20 (permalink)
    I would add, when posting a software question on the forum, it is a good idea to indicate what version of the software one is using. Some find it easier to add their hardware and software info in their .sig. It can help with getting the best answer.
    #8
    Guitarhacker
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    Re: How to substiitute another VST for an existing one? 2013/09/29 17:10:29 (permalink)
    If you delete the synth from the track it remains in the synth rack.
     
    MC can only have 8 synths in the rack maximum. So unless you delete the unused one, you can not add a new one.
     
    Another tip is to bounce the synths in the other tracks to audio if you are 100% satisfied with them. Delete the synth but save the midi track.  That lets you work in audio and the processor load is lessened considerably. midi tracks without a synth use no processing power.

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    gcolbert
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    Re: How to substiitute another VST for an existing one? 2013/10/05 17:17:38 (permalink)
    I wonder if this is an issue where deleting the eigth synth may not be deleting it completely so MC thinks you have exceded the limit. You might try deleting the synth, save and close the project, Reopen the project, then add the replacement synth.

    Glen
    #10
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