57Gregy
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How to turn off a computer
So I'm working on a song, take of the headphones and begin to hear thunder. I save the project and close SONAR. While the cursor is hovering over the Start button to turn the thing off, the power goes off for a few seconds. Power comes on, computer starts up again. Waiting for startup to finish so I can turn it off. Power goes off again. Comes on again, computer restarts. Waiting again. Power goes off, comes back on, but this time stays on and the computer starts and begins to run checkdisk. All the while lightning is flashing all around, thunder is crashing and Cinnamon the dog is cowering under my feet. Question: Can you just pull the plug during startup or checkdisk, or is there a way to safely terminate those so you can pull the plug?
post edited by 57Gregy - 2011/07/25 21:44:52
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Jonbouy
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Re:How to turn off a computer
2011/07/25 21:36:14
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It's very hit and miss when you are in that situation. Sometimes you've just got to pull the plug and hope all is well when the power is stable enough to restart. If it has got to the point where Checkdisk is running it would be best to let it finish if it can but if the power goes again just pull the plug while it is down. The only sure way of dealing with that scenario is to have a UPS (uninterruptable power supply) to buy enough time to finish what you are doing and exit gracefully.
post edited by Jonbouy - 2011/07/25 21:38:36
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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Bub
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Re:How to turn off a computer
2011/07/25 21:56:51
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☄ Helpful
There is a 'Read/Write' head on HDD's. When the HDD is idle it is parked, like a needle on a record player that isn't playing a record. If you lose power while it is reading or writing then you risk the head coming in to contact with the data surface and creating a bad sector or corrupting you HDD. The other problem is when the power comes back on there is a surge. That's what a staged surge suppressor is for. It switches everything on when it detects normal AC levels. Do not unplug your computer when it is running CHK DSK. If it is in the middle of repairing a bad sector or corrupted system file and you unplug it, you may have wipe your drive.
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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jhughs
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Re:How to turn off a computer
2011/07/25 22:01:28
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☄ Helpful
Definitely invest, $100 or so, on a UPS. If nothing else, it helps smooth the power feeding to your computer (yes, surges are bad but dips aren't good either). (At least the APC models do, which is what I use.) But in that situation, the best time to pull the plug is when the PC is just starting up, before the hard disk starts being accessed. So before or during that first splash screen should do it. Otherwise, you've already got mother nature hitting the power on your PC in a completely uncontrolled fashion, so just powering it full off can't be worse.
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57Gregy
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Re:How to turn off a computer
2011/07/25 22:07:38
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I would give Jonbouy a Helpful thingy too, but I don't know how much it will cost.
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Jonbouy
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Re:How to turn off a computer
2011/07/25 22:33:19
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57Gregy I would give Jonbouy a Helpful thingy too, but I don't know how much it will cost. Better safe than sorry...
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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jhughs
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Re:How to turn off a computer
2011/07/25 23:36:09
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Jonbouy 57Gregy I would give Jonbouy a Helpful thingy too, but I don't know how much it will cost. Better safe than sorry... I'll second that. He mentioned the UPS first.
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slartabartfast
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Re:How to turn off a computer
2011/07/26 00:31:28
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☄ Helpful
Best advice is to use a UPS which in most cases also will provide some surge protection. Lacking that, look for a setting in the bios setup that will say something like reboot or resume on power on and disable it. That setting is designed for use in an unattended machine such as a server so that it will automatically re-boot after a power failure and an operator will not have to physically go to the site and re-start it. But as you noted in a situation with multiple line power cycles it will expose the machine to potential damage from starts and stops without an OS shut down cycle. You will still experience some risk but only one time before you have a chance to intervene and pull the plug. btw pulling the plug is indeed the safest thing to do in an electrical storm, but ideally after you have shut down the OS.
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craigb
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Re:How to turn off a computer
2011/07/26 05:56:37
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Yep, a UPS is the way to go! I've got three, one for the work/personal PC, one for the DAW and another for my wireless phones and wireless router so I can keep doing things for up to 40 minutes. Yee haw!
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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Old55
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Re:How to turn off a computer
2011/07/26 06:40:37
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Once everything is shut down--even with a UPS, it's a good idea to disconnect all physical connections to the outside world. When you have that kind of electrical activity going on, you might also want to disconnect your LAN/PHONE or CABLE connections, too. Any connection to the outside world has the potential to cause damage.
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Guitarhacker
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Re:How to turn off a computer
2011/07/26 07:25:31
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Greg, get a UPS/surge protector. (450VA rated) Here in NC, the power can blink at anytime, and especially in the summer with storms as you pointed out. It would be nice to have one that has an internet connection surge on it too. That way, when the lights in the studio start to blink, and or you hear thunder you can shut down safely. Other surges can happen as well, and do... all the time. BTW: when you hear thunder, the storm is less than 15 miles away and lightening often strikes up to 10 miles or more outside of the storm's footprint. The price of the UPS is worth it....and some of them have a USB connection to the computer and software to shut the computer off automatically if you happen to leave it on while you are running to the guitar center for a new string and the power goes out..... it's called parachute software. In the case you described... I have been there, before I bought UPS's for all my IT gear and computers..... yeah ... just rip the cord out of the wall. One of those "power on" events could be a big surge coming down the line.....
post edited by Guitarhacker - 2011/07/26 07:26:57
My website & music: www.herbhartley.com MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface BMI/NSAI "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer "
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Jonbouy
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Re:How to turn off a computer
2011/07/26 11:25:15
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☄ Helpful
slartabartfast Best advice is to use a UPS which in most cases also will provide some surge protection. Lacking that, look for a setting in the bios setup that will say something like reboot or resume on power on and disable it. That setting is designed for use in an unattended machine such as a server so that it will automatically re-boot after a power failure and an operator will not have to physically go to the site and re-start it. But as you noted in a situation with multiple line power cycles it will expose the machine to potential damage from starts and stops without an OS shut down cycle. You will still experience some risk but only one time before you have a chance to intervene and pull the plug. btw pulling the plug is indeed the safest thing to do in an electrical storm, but ideally after you have shut down the OS. This is key! Basically after an outage I have to be sure the power has stabilized and I have to elect to push the on button for the computer to boot again. I personally have never invested in a UPS and never lost data or hardware as a result of a power failure. I may have been lucky and some of that may be down to the UK electrical system being cleaner, nevertheless we have our fair share of outages due to storms. I have a policy of imaging my drives should anything go 'phut' which has worked well up 'til now and it strikes me the cost of a UPS system weighed up against the real likelihood of replacing components that have been damaged hasn't justified the expense, which has to date in cold hard terms been zero. I'm not advocating that against those that swear by needing a UPS it's just that the reality is I have saved the price of a UPS on something for me to date over the last 20 years or so that has been a complete non-issue. Disconnecting from the mains and the phone lines at the earliest opportunity during electrical storms however is plain good sense. Of course your mileage may vary.
post edited by Jonbouy - 2011/07/26 11:26:47
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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Bub
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Re:How to turn off a computer
2011/07/26 12:23:30
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I just thought of another way to turn off a computer ... tell it it's fat and ugly.
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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bapu
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Re:How to turn off a computer
2011/07/26 13:04:40
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Bub I just thought of another way to turn off a computer ... tell it it's fat and ugly. Well, I just undress in front of my computer. That turns it off immediately.
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craigb
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Re:How to turn off a computer
2011/07/26 14:29:22
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I find that the best place to be during an electrical storm is in bed, asleep. Of course, I also think this is the best place to be when there isn't any electrical storm going on...
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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Jonbouy
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Re:How to turn off a computer
2011/07/26 15:35:21
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bapu Bub I just thought of another way to turn off a computer ... tell it it's fat and ugly. Well, I just undress in front of my computer. That turns it off immediately. Do you call out 'Jonbouy' to turn it on again?
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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bapu
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Re:How to turn off a computer
2011/07/26 16:18:16
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Jonbouy bapu Bub I just thought of another way to turn off a computer ... tell it it's fat and ugly. Well, I just undress in front of my computer. That turns it off immediately. Do you call out 'Jonbouy' to turn it on again? Let's just say when I do that the computer goes into a frenzy.
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Guitarhacker
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Re:How to turn off a computer
2011/07/26 21:55:27
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I like to be in the shower and using the telephone during lightning storms..... Hello? Hello? Can you hear me now?
My website & music: www.herbhartley.com MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface BMI/NSAI "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer "
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jackn2mpu
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Re:How to turn off a computer
2011/07/27 07:18:00
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Old55 Once everything is shut down--even with a UPS, it's a good idea to disconnect all physical connections to the outside world. When you have that kind of electrical activity going on, you might also want to disconnect your LAN/PHONE or CABLE connections, too. Any connection to the outside world has the potential to cause damage. The one system you wouldn't have to do that with is something like Verizon FIOS which is fiber optic to the house. No copper path so no lightning path that way. Of course there's still the power supply for the termination box attached to one's house. The problem becomes one of how much do you go about your house unplugging things?
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Guitarhacker
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Re:How to turn off a computer
2011/07/27 08:36:38
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If your house gets a direct hit...all bets are off anyway. Even if you unplug everything. A few years back a veterinarian doctor's house took a direct hit. It burned to the ground. Unplugging won't help that. Like a good neighbor, state farm was there and he has rebuilt.
My website & music: www.herbhartley.com MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface BMI/NSAI "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer "
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UbiquitousBubba
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Re:How to turn off a computer
2011/07/27 10:19:34
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The neighborhood where I live has excellent power. During storms we usually never have an interruption in service. Across the rest of the metropolitan area, people are running off of generators, batteries, and wool socks on a carpet. Packs of scavengers roam the streets, looking like extras in a Mad Max movie. Folks arm themselves with clubs and spears. Cave drawings spread across the area. The metro area begins to resemble the opening of 2001: A Space Odessy. I did have a sump pump die during a major thunderstorm and my basement flooded (rescued my studio equipment just in time). Since then, we've been okay. Well, we did have that one problem with Cthulhu, but it all worked out in the end. Oh, and there's a UPS truck that drives around the neighborhood every few days. I hope that helps.
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Cactus Music
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Re:How to turn off a computer
2011/07/27 11:39:27
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Fixed A 'nother good reason to use a laptop. They are generally immune to power outages. But going "off the grid" will save your butt too, unless you take a direct hit which I have had. It blew the submersible pump controller box apart and telephone box off the side of the house. Some of the phone lines were melted. The house smelled of Ozone and melting plastic. The TV never worked again.
post edited by Cactus Music - 2011/07/27 11:50:06
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craigb
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Re:How to turn off a computer
2011/07/27 15:45:04
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Cactus Music ...The TV never worked again. Well, at least something good came out of the event...
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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Old55
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Re:How to turn off a computer
2011/07/28 00:15:43
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jackn2mpu Old55 Once everything is shut down--even with a UPS, it's a good idea to disconnect all physical connections to the outside world. When you have that kind of electrical activity going on, you might also want to disconnect your LAN/PHONE or CABLE connections, too. Any connection to the outside world has the potential to cause damage. The one system you wouldn't have to do that with is something like Verizon FIOS which is fiber optic to the house. No copper path so no lightning path that way. Of course there's still the power supply for the termination box attached to one's house. The problem becomes one of how much do you go about your house unplugging things? You're correct about the FIOS--or any fiber optic for that matter. If you use a surge suppressor or a UPS, you can probably get away with unplugging two or three cables. For most storms it probably wouldn't be necessary--up it's still you gambling that you won't get a direct hit. In the case of the 57Gregy, where the was a lot of lightning going for a long time I would definitely disconnect every damned wire I had in the house.
Should auld acquaintance be forgot--hey, who the hell are you guys? X2(X3 pending hardware upgrade), Emulator X2, E-mu 1212M, Virtual String Machine
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Old55
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Re:How to turn off a computer
2011/07/28 00:22:29
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Guitarhacker If your house gets a direct hit...all bets are off anyway. Even if you unplug everything. A few years back a veterinarian doctor's house took a direct hit. It burned to the ground. Unplugging won't help that. Like a good neighbor, state farm was there and he has rebuilt. If the house is taking a direct hit like that, I think saving a song on Sonar is the least of your worries! Fate, karma, serendipity? Once in a while you have to ask "is my number up this time!" I certainly hope it isn't.
Should auld acquaintance be forgot--hey, who the hell are you guys? X2(X3 pending hardware upgrade), Emulator X2, E-mu 1212M, Virtual String Machine
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Kalle Rantaaho
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Re:How to turn off a computer
2011/07/28 02:08:16
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Jonbouy slartabartfast I personally have never invested in a UPS and never lost data or hardware as a result of a power failure. I may have been lucky and some of that may be down to the UK electrical system being cleaner, nevertheless we have our fair share of outages due to storms. . IMO the storms are not the biggest risk, because you usually see them coming. Of course, a severe power surge caused by a lightning is another thing , but... I guess in the UK you have much less of such sparsely inhabited areas which don't have multiple power main lines than in the USA. When an area get power from several sources it can keep the power more stable. Here in sparsely populated Finland (and I think in many areas of the USA) there are lots of places where the disturbance in one power line can't be patched by another. For example, where I live, during the bird migrations we get weekly power drop outs of 1-3 seconds when birds fly between the high voltage wires and get fried by the electric arcs. Those are something that come quite unexpectedly, as do the ones caused by the banked snow falling from an upper wire on the lower one. I'm playing high poker: My music-hobby room doesn't have grounded outlets, so I can't use UPS. So far so good. I guess I'm in that room more seldom than birds migrate...sigh. It's been my "intention" for twenty years to get the grounding but if I wait for a few years more, I don't need to care :o/
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Karyn
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Re:How to turn off a computer
2011/07/28 06:51:27
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Cactus Music Solar powered speakers... For daytime festivals only? or is bright stage lighting enough to power them?
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Guitarhacker
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Re:How to turn off a computer
2011/07/28 07:25:12
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In my experience....working in the electric & security business, surges happen every day. A storm is just the Big Cheeze. Most of the damage I see to my security systems comes in through the phone lines. Electrical systems seem to be very well grounded (as per codes that are enforced) but the phone system has a smaller ground and in some cases has no ground that is usable or effective. Most damage also occurs in the country where there are fewer grounding points per a given distance as opposed to the suburban areas where there might be dozens if not hundreds of grounding points in the utility system in the same distance. Even though your outlets are the NON-grounded type, a UPS will still work and provide "coast through" power to the computer and studio gear on a power outage or blink. Here in NC (USA) we can get blinks in the middle of the day with blue skies. If a car hits a pole or a tree falls on the line, you can get outages, and even a huge surge if the event causes the primary transformer feeders running at 14, 700 volts to contact the lower voltage cables below them on the way down. Hit the power supplies in your gear with 14.7kv ...actually anything over 240v on a 120v line and you got toasted gear..... doesn't go well with butter and jam either.... I had a voltage surge device on my line for years that latched a light on for anything 30% over the rated voltage of 120v. There wasn't a single day that I didn't come home to find it latched on. USE SURGE PROTECTION and a UPS on all the gear you love.
My website & music: www.herbhartley.com MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface BMI/NSAI "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer "
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Jonbouy
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Re:How to turn off a computer
2011/07/28 07:57:14
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USE SURGE PROTECTION and a UPS on all the gear you love. That's not you is it Herb? You sound like one of those pesky, meddling government health and safety official types here that insist on prescribing what they decree is best for me despite my personal evidence to the contrary... I agree with the phone lines being a bigger problem as equipment using the phone lines is only 12v DC rated (UK) and therefore obviously much more vulnerable to being fried by a surge. But it would have been uneconomical for me to own either surge protection or a UPS or even a combined solution, so the jury is out on that one for me. I can still afford to lose say a motherboard and a couple of hard drives and I'd still be in pocket over the price of a UPS. I appreciate the cautionary stance though...
post edited by Jonbouy - 2011/07/28 07:58:42
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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jackn2mpu
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