How we feel about music and our own compositions

Note to Reader:  Just read the final paragraph if everything I'm saying here is too much to read.  The final paragraph makes the most important point.
 
How we feel about music is all subjective and all our own personal subjective opinions hold true for ourselves in terms of how we feel about works of art. If I feel that my songs convey strong emotion that I have composed, then that would hold true for me and my own personal life. But if you say that they don't convey strong emotion and/or that they convey mediocre emotion, then that would hold true only for you and your own personal life.
 
But if you are going to say something such as that:
 
"Except that's not true. There is a canonical body of music in the Western tradition that has established norms and conventions. You know what "heroic" music sounds like because five hundred years of composers wrote things that are heroic and aren't heroic and the difference is audible and discoverable through score analysis."
 
Then what I would have to say to this would be that so are you saying that since I feel that this song is heroic, then that means it is heroic since my analysis and conclusions were solely based on those norms and standards? As well as that if I think that my songs are really that great, then that also makes them great as well? But what about if your emotional interpretations of music are outside of those norms and standards and are your own personal feelings and interpretations? How those people established those norms and standards in the first place was all based on their own personal musical interpretations and feelings.  Therefore, it was their own personal feelings and perceptions that have created these norms and standards and applies to those types of people who also share the same feelings and perceptions.  But there are other people who have their own perceptions and feelings as well and we should respect those feelings and not say they are false and have scorn towards them. These norms and standards might apply to the majority of audiences, but you should not say that it would be false for someone to have a different musical interpretation. It would just simply mean here that this person has their own personal different feeling and interpretation.
 
Now there are two aspects of music here. One is the technical aspect which would involve the notes, harmony, how well a song is artistically crafted, etc. The 2nd aspect would be the emotional aspect which would be how we feel about music. Now I have never heard anyone say that there is an objective standard that determines our own feelings regarding works of art as being true or false. Imagine if I went up to a famous painting, spoke all the profound good feelings I felt about it, and then someone came up to me and said to me that my feelings are just false.

But as for the technical aspect, then I would have to agree that there is an objective standard on that since we can scientifically determine how well crafted a song is. But as for our own personal values and feelings, that is all subjective. The emotional aspect of music is all that matters to me since I value emotions in music above all else here.

Now if you are going to say something to me such as that I have an ego problem and that you have every right to have scorn towards me, then we should and have every right to have egos. As long as we are not demeaning and/or harming other good people, then we have every right to have egos and to pursue our own greatness/value ourselves as much as possible as long as we are not demeaning and/or harming other good people.
 
Now greatness is all subjective and we find our own greatness in life. What we personally deem as great holds true for ourselves and we have every right to have that said greatness as long as we are not harming/demeaning other good innocent people. Therefore, the emotional aspect of my songs really are great in my own personal life and I am just trying to find others to relate to who also feel and perceive the way I do. You would have no right to demean that greatness I have found just as I would also have no right to demean your perceived greatness. Also, my family and friends genuinely value and care about me as well as my songs. They are not pretending that they like them either.

Now one last important point I would like to make in this post is that I AM planning on learning music theory and such later on when I am in the mood when I have my pleasure back. Therefore, do not forget and dismiss that since I do have value towards that only when I have my full pleasure back in life.

Now I said I was the cool calm intellectual type. Therefore, there is just simply no reason to have any scorn/agitation towards me. Since I have a cool calm intellectual attitude towards you, then you and everyone else should return the favor as well regardless of the things I say. You would only have the right to have scorn towards me if I had scorn towards you. I am not harming and having scorn towards you. I am just having a discussion here.

Finally, let's pretend that I did have all the necessary knowledge and experience of music I needed and I did perfect my compositions, then if others told me that they were not that great even though there doesn't need to be any more improvements on that song, the conveyed emotion in that song really was something great to me, and that the only way for me to create a better song would be for me to create a different song entirely that does convey something great, then that would be wrong of them. If these people are wanting me to improve in that regard, then they are only wanting me to improve from what they personally perceive as something great. I have my own perceived greatness in life and I live by that and I do not live by the values and greatness of others.

Also, it's only the emotional aspects of music that matters to me (the emotion that songs convey and how strongly they convey that emotion). If someone said to me that my song is not great simply because the technical aspects of the song weren't as great as other compositions even though the conveyed emotion was something strong and great to me, then this would be disrespectful and wrong of them. They would be disrespectful of my own personal values and greatness. They would have belittled the profound and great emotions that are conveyed in my compositions.

To me, how strong/profound emotions are in music and works of art is the only thing that determines their level of greatness. The technical aspects (how complex and well artistically crafted a work of art is), this does not matter at all to me. In other words, if you were to create a simple melody and/or yell it and this conveyed a powerful emotion, then that would make that song great. If you felt that it personally conveyed stronger emotion than even the greatest complex and well artistically crafted compositions in the world, then it really would be something that great. Therefore, I have every right to have this personal value and belief that greatness is all subjective and is determined by emotion alone. You should not disrespect that value and belief I hold just as I would have no right to disrespect your values and beliefs. I would only be disrespecting your values and beliefs if I had scorn towards you and called you names/lashed out towards you.

Now if I were to present a perfected composition of mine towards someone else and I thought that it conveyed emotion in that song that was great and made that song something great, then the attitude they should have towards me should be a respectful attitude towards my perceived greatness. They should say something to me such as "Your composition is really that great. However, I do not feel that from it simply because I have a different perceived greatness in life and I value other things. But I'm sure one day you will find someone who can relate to your perceived greatness who just might feel and perceive your composition like you. Therefore, I respect your perceived greatness and I want you to find those other people who can relate to you."  The attitude I would then have in return towards this person would be "Thank you. I respect your perceived greatness which is that you do not feel that my composition is all that great and that you instead value other compositions as being greater."  As a matter of fact, if this person so happened to think that one of his/her compositions conveyed great emotion and that made it the greatest masterpiece in the world since he/she feels that it conveys greater emotion, then I would respect that and would encourage that attitude and would encourage people to think they are all great as long as they don't use that attitude to harm and demean good innocent people.
 
Now I will and do choose to grow in terms of improving the technical aspects of my songs. But as long as the technical aspects have been perfected, then the emotion of the song is all that matters and is all subjective. If I feel that the emotion is very strong and great and that it makes my compositions great, then that holds true for me and others should respect that. You have no right to disrespect my perceived greatness and profound emotional musical perceptions as you are doing right now by having scorn towards me.
 
I would like to add one more important point here which is that morality is objective in a certain specific sense. It is objectively wrong to harm/scorn good people and their values. Therefore, it is objectively wrong to have scorn towards my perceived greatness towards the emotion in my compositions as long as I am not having any scorn towards you.
 
Now if you are going to say something such as that the only reason why I feel that my songs convey great emotions and such is because I have created these songs and just think they are all great.  But this would be false.  Even if I were to look at my songs as a creation of someone else, then I would still feel the same way about them. No matter how many times I listen to them and look at them as creations as someone else, I still feel the same way about them. Even when completely forgetting about them and finding other things of value in life, then I still feel the same way when listening to them.

Now a very important point I would like to make is that I am going to explain how things should work out here. It should work out that I should compose music to the likings of other people and how they want me to be a better composer and such. But at the same time, these people must also respect my perceived emotional greatness towards my compositions as they already are. They must tell me something such as that "Even though your compositions really are great in terms of their emotion since you feel that way in your own personal life, I also wish for you to compose in such a way for us and how we would like your compositions to be." If you respect my values and beliefs, then I will also respect yours and give you what you want in return. You should respect my values and beliefs since I am not harming/having scorn towards good innocent people.
 
Now another very important point I would like to make is that even if I were to scatter a bunch of random notes in a music notation program and play those notes, then I will derive emotion from this "melody" even though that "melody" is nothing more than just a bunch of random notes. So who knows, maybe the songs I hear in my head are also a bunch of random notes with no rhythm or harmony. It could be imagined rhythm and harmony in my mind. So perhaps I am attributing personality (emotion) to things that don't convey such personalities in the first place. But how could that be if music theory is the only thing that allows songs to convey emotion and that if it weren't for music theory and we just created a bunch of random notes, then there should be no conveyed emotion? The answer to that would be that maybe perhaps I am hearing these songs how they would actually be with real harmony and rhythm and am perceiving the emotion from that version rather than the version in which they are just a bunch of random notes. Perhaps I am unable to separate these two versions from one another and am fooled into perceiving that the flawed version I have just created in my youtube videos through my lack of musical knowledge and skill conveys great emotion just like the other version in my head which might have actual rhythm and harmony and does convey great emotion.
 
I would like to continue on with something here. What I find really odd is that I am also able to have different emotional musical interpretations regarding songs that are played in reverse that apparently no one else feels. For example, in this song "Love is a Battlefield" played in reverse, I feel a strong dramatic intense horror from that song (as though someone is being dragged to hell). So maybe there is some idealized version of this reversed song as well going on in my mind. Perhaps this idealized version is simply in a minor scale and the horrific emotion I am perceiving from this song is only from the minor scale version and not the major scale version. Therefore, here is this song and I describe how it feels to me in individual events:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqwnDtWFlIo
 
Now even though people are allowed to say how they feel about my music, they are not allowed to have scorn towards me and my emotional musical interpretations. They are allowed to reason against my emotional musical interpretations as long as they are doing it in a respectful non-scorning manner. I have not had any scorn towards anyone here. Therefore, others should return the favor. I am also allowed to go against their values as long as I also don't have scorn. I should not have scorn as long as they have no scorn towards me. But I am allowed to go against their values nonetheless.
 
Now as far is simple repetitious melodies go which are some of the things you hear in my compositions, I do realize that there needs to be more to this song and that it did repeat too much. But I intentionally did this because I did not have a fully perfected song in my head just yet. I only had the tune in my mind which is why I have chosen to repeat it.

But as far as simple melodies go, they can convey strong emotion. For example, with Zelda's Lullaby or any other brief melodic tune that is played on the Ocarina in Zelda, these melodies do convey strong and memorable emotions. My song also conveys a certain strong emotion as well which are the emotions I have described in my videos. You might not feel that from them. But the technical aspects of my songs are flawed and this is the reason why I am really thinking that its emotion is not getting across to you or anyone else. If the technical flaws were corrected, then surely there would be others who would feel similar to this song like me and can relate to this song like me. These are the types of people I wish to seek out since I do not wish to be all alone in this world with my own musical perceptions that no one else has who can't relate to them in my compositions.

Finally, if you feel a certain way about a song you made (such as that it conveys a great and powerful heroic feel), then that would mean that this song really does convey that emotion. What we mean here when we say that a song conveys a certain emotion, this would mean that this song evokes a certain emotional response. Therefore, since this song really has evoked a certain emotion within you, then this means that this song conveys that said emotion. You should not be the only one with this musical interpretation. There are bound to be others out in the world who also share similar perceptions regarding your song. Therefore, even if you were to blow brief random notes into a kazoo every few moments and felt that this "melody" conveys a certain profound emotion and that this emotion is greater than even the greatest compositions in the world, then that song really would be that great in terms of its emotion and there are bound to be others who also share a similar perception. But in order for your perception to truly get across, you just have to choose the right scenes/characters to express the emotion you felt from that song and explain how you feel about that song. Just like how videogame and anime composers get the intended feel of their songs by choosing the right characters, scenes, and environments. That would then allow those people to see that song from your perspective and feel from it the way you do (for at least some people, anyway). This even applies to remixes in that if you feel a certain way about a remix, then it conveys that said emotion.
 
I will add one last important point here which is that if someone offered you constructive criticism in saying that if you do this or that, then the emotion of your song would be greater, then this would only be true based on how you felt when applying his/her suggestions. If you felt that after rising a note or anything else evoked a stronger sense of emotion within you than what you have previously created, then this would mean that this suggestion was helpful and made your song more great in terms of its emotion. But if you felt that it made it less emotionally powerful while the other person felt that it made it more emotionally powerful, then this song is more emotionally powerful to you while it is less emotionally powerful to the other person. So you should just ignore his/her feelings and suggestion and just respect his/her feelings and suggestion anyway. However, there could be other forms of suggestions that this person could offer you that would make your compositions more emotionally powerful to you. As long as it is more emotionally powerful to you, then that is all that matters. What also only matters here as well is you finding those other types of people who do feel as strongly as you do and share the same musical perceptions as you do who can relate to you and your compositions.
 
 

How can you write so long comments? The reversed song sounded truly horrible.

sharke
No. 

If you went out into nature, listened to a bunch of birds chirping in either patterns or in random series and you felt a profound emotion from that which felt greater than even the greatest compositions in the world, then this feeling would hold true for you and your personal life. If you felt that the actions from your mother or from another member of your family whether they be in random series or anything else had immense profound value to you that had more emotion and value to you than even the greatest compositions in the world, then this would hold true for you. Therefore, how we feel about music is all subjective. If you felt that the emotion conveyed in your compositions was the greatest and conveyed a certain feel to it, then that would hold true for you and no one should have the right to tell you that you are false. Of course, there might be suggestions from others which would make your compositions more emotionally powerful to you than what they were before. But as long as you feel that your compositions are the greatest in terms of their emotion, then that holds true for you and your personal life. It does not apply to anyone else nor does their personal opinions apply to you. The only thing that would matter from here would be how you personally feel and also finding others who feel and perceive the same as you who can relate to you and your compositions in terms of your own personal feelings.
 
One last thing here is that I like to challenge the norms, standards, values, and beliefs others have and am not trying to provoke or annoy these people.

SonicFan

sharke
No. 

If you went out into nature, listened to a bunch of birds chirping in either patterns or in random series and you felt a profound emotion from that which felt greater than even the greatest compositions in the world, then this feeling would hold true for you and your personal life. If you felt that the actions from your mother or from another member of your family whether they be in random series or anything else had immense profound value to you that had more emotion and value to you than even the greatest compositions in the world, then this would hold true for you. Therefore, how we feel about music is all subjective. If you felt that the emotion conveyed in your compositions was the greatest and conveyed a certain feel to it, then that would hold true for you and no one should have the right to tell you that you are false. Of course, there might be suggestions from others which would make your compositions more emotionally powerful to you than what they were before. But as long as you feel that your compositions are the greatest in terms of their emotion, then that holds true for you and your personal life. It does not apply to anyone else nor does their personal opinions apply to you. The only thing that would matter from here would be how you personally feel and also finding others who feel and perceive the same as you who can relate to you and your compositions in terms of your own personal feelings.
 
One last thing here is that I like to challenge the norms, standards, values, and beliefs others have and am not trying to provoke or annoy these people.

Roasted parsnips with sautéed garlic. Mmmm!

SonicFan
I would even feel very profound emotions from songs that many other people could not feel or relate to when I was a young child as well.  I feel these emotions even to this day.

That's some grade-A hubris right there.

Well, I'm not going to read all that but I did scan the last paragraph, no offense.
 
So, I may misunderstand the question BUT... as far as my music I am WIDE open to help with arrangement, with ideas. I may or may not use them but I am easily influenced because I am actually looking for input and help. IMO, there are few people who can write and record everything alone and produce their best work. Not everyone is a Beethoven... I look at Lennon/McCartney and see a LOT of synergy.
If someone who gives you an idea to improve a song and it hurts their feelings if you disagree then they have a problem not you... unless you dismiss other's ideas out of hand or really aren't open to them.
Perhaps I missed the point... pardon me if I did.
 
It's your thing... do what you wanna do.. I can't tell you who to sock it to.
 
Julien
 

yorolpal
Listen SonicFan, Ol pal...self absorption can be a wonderful thing. I know...I'm eat up with it. But, for the most part, and especially when you have deal with other people, it gets to be a real drag and a deterrent to reasonable and rational discourse. And, perhaps sadly...but really, who knows...no one else gives a rat's ass what you think, feel or have devined through mystical or empirical means. Unless you are a bona fide celebrity, so called expert or just someone who's on TV or the interweb. And even then, not much. And you, at least it appears, are not a member of any of those elite groups. Tough titty. Take an aspirin and don't call any of us in the morning. Go on with your bad self. But learn to use your "inside" words when pondering. I promise that's damn good advice.

I understand, but music should stand as a separate entity on its own from the composer.  In other words, just because you are someone not famous or not respected does not mean that your compositions should receive the same treatment.  Works of art and music stand alone as separate entities in of themselves.  As long as they really are something great and convey great emotions, then it shouldn't matter whether the person who made those works of art is someone selfish or not.  The work of art still stands alone in of itself as being great and no amount of horrible personality traits this person has can ever demean that work of art.

yorolpal
Yea...and Van Gogh died a pauper. Which, if I had anything to say about it, he should have. There are countless examples of talentless numbskulls who've achieved fame and fortune and honestly talented artists of all stripes who have achieved virtually nothing. Again, tough titty. Them's the breaks. Roll with the punches. Don't sweat it. Don't forget about what I said about your inside voice.

There would be absolutely no way I would ever want to share my works with such an audience then who only deems works of art as great if the person is someone famous and such.  I would only share my works of art to people who truly see them for what they are.  They would be people who have profound perceptions like me.

SonicFan
  I would only share my works of art to people who truly see them for what they are.  They would be people who have profound perceptions like me.

There is no one here with perception like yours...

Karyn

SonicFan
  I would only share my works of art to people who truly see them for what they are.  They would be people who have profound perceptions like me.

There is no one here with perception like yours...

Now one might say to me that my emotional musical interpretations and perceptions are irrational nonsense.  But there must be a scientific reason why such feelings and perceptions were triggered by the songs in the first place.  Why would, for example, a person have feelings and perceptions of anger towards someone who has good value and love towards that person?  If he/she were to have feelings of anger towards this good person, then it would be for a reason that makes sense.  For example, it might be because this person has argued with him/her.  Therefore, our feelings and perceptions do make sense and happen for a rational reason.  The only exception would be if you are schizophrenic/deluded.  I am not schizophrenic or deluded. A schizophrenic/deluded person would be angry towards this other person for an irrational reason.  It could be because he/she thought this person was some evil space alien from another galaxy out to harm him/her.  Therefore, as you can clearly see here, no such perceptions and feelings ever happen when I listen to my compositions or any other type of music.  If they are very profound perceptions and feelings no one else shares, then these feelings and perceptions happen for a rational reason.  Even though they are rational, they might still not make sense to anyone else.
 
But even if they were somehow irrational and nonsensical, then why belittle and have scorn towards such feelings and perceptions?  Imagine how amazing it is to have profound feelings and perceptions towards works of art that others do not share.  I would even call it a unique gift.

I've not read a word here but I'd just like to add
 
Ipsum Lorum
 
Somes et up, know?

Art of all levels is for everyone and anyone. All levels of expression are worthy. Art to be made, commented on, etc.
 
If you're only sharing your work with those you deem worthy of understanding 'it' or 'you', then I'd argue you haven't actually created genuine, soul fed art. Rather you have created a commercial product with the price of purchase being intellect and appreciation, and the effect they have on the artist's ego... or else the patron will be denied the opportunity to view.
 
Imo, an artist releases their work to the whole world. How someone else then feels about that work, or us as a person, should be utterly irrelevant to the process.
 
And the continued appeal to the word 'rational' is 'irrational'. It presumes we live in a rational universe. And let's not ignore that 'rational' is contextual in the first place. It is conditional. For clarity... you live on a crusted over ball of magma, floating through a void around another ball that is on fire... itself careening through the void. What... what is rational about any of this?
 
/questions... if we are the target of someone's pysch paper?

jbow

SonicFan

yorolpal
Yea...and Van Gogh died a pauper. Which, if I had anything to say about it, he should have. There are countless examples of talentless numbskulls who've achieved fame and fortune and honestly talented artists of all stripes who have achieved virtually nothing. Again, tough titty. Them's the breaks. Roll with the punches. Don't sweat it. Don't forget about what I said about your inside voice.

There would be absolutely no way I would ever want to share my works with such an audience then who only deems works of art as great if the person is someone famous and such.  I would only share my works of art to people who truly see them for what they are.  They would be people who have profound perceptions like me.

Wow... !

 
It's a stunning level of hubris not readily admitted by one individual to another, let alone in public.