Hypothetical Question

"How they hell do we get cclary to STFU? Copyright 9/2014, Trademark 9/2014." - TheBand19

If Cakewalk decided to just "stop supporting X3" and just left the product
completely unsupported for 5 years, and then, all of sudden, said

AFTER 6 YEARS IN THE MAKING IT"S HERE  - SONAR X4 !!!

Would that be acceptable?

The chances are that other DAW'S would have still "maintained" their products
adding, new technology, 128 bit support, computers would have quadrupled in
speed and capacity and memory, and X3 would have ceased being viable or usable.
There is a 99% probability that X3 would have been relegated to the dust heap and
you would have "moved on" to another DAW.  And you certainly would NOT be happy
with Cakewalk, in whom you had placed your FAITH.

Obviously the diehards would care less...but, for most it would NOT 
be an "acceptable" situation for a product that you invested heavily into for many years.
Especially if developing tech had rendered X3 virtually useless.
 
NOW...apply that same principle to what IK did with SampleTank, which, in all actuality, is even worse.

Is this an "acceptable" situation for the MANY who invested heavily and use these things to earn their living?

Here's my opinion - NO IT IS NOT.  Big surprise there.

Cake did the same thing on a lesser scale. What Cake did with X2 was NOT acceptable.  YES we got X3, but at the expense of MANY ( i.e  Beepster ) not being able to use what they had paid for and did not get any support for, AND they made us pay for
the fixes that should have been for X2, by buying X3.  THAT was not acceptable.  I voiced my displeasure in that regard.
But it was only 8 months of no support.  I bought X3, after selling my copy of Addictive Drums to get the price
back to $99, I bought in - mostly to get a "more stable product" and I moved on.

But I would think that, had Cake waited 5 years, this place would have been a ghost town and most would
have moved on to something else. Especially if the other DAW's were continuing to march forward.
In this day and age 5 years of ZERO support for a product, in the light of ever changing tech, is simply
NOT acceptable.  

IMO 10 years for a version increase is COMPLETELY LUDICROUS!!!
Obviously many disagree, and many just don't care, and that is their prerogative.

I do care.  I care that the large corporations have the mentality (granted to them by GAS and US, the Customer,
by our complacency) that whatever they do is ok...after all..they are there to make money, and we're just the
customer.  Our opinions don't matter. Support for the products we've purchased doesn't matter.  You got
what you paid for (as IK has stated repeatedly)...so carry on...whether you can still use it or not.  
WE THE COMPANY OWE YOU NOTHING!

This is NOT ACCEPTABLE.  And I hope that one day, just maybe, people will wake up and stop giving in to GAS,to 
the Corporations, and Governments, that ramrod things down our throat and we're just supposed to 
"move on and get over it".  

That is a VERY POOR statement of OUR mentality.  THIS is the reason why this country is doomed.
Because WE THE PEOPLE, WE THE CUSTOMER, WE THE REASON THESE COMPANY'S AND THE GOVERNMENT'S JOBS EXIST, have allowed ourselves to "cease to matter".  As long as "our little microcosm" is OK, nothing and no one else matters!  As long as we get what we want, we don't care about the "other" guy.  We allow "others" to influence us and let "others" make decisions for "us" even though we really have NO IDEA what decisions are being made.  As long as "I" can do what I need,  and get what "I" want, I'll let it go and move on.  Forget about my fellow man, he can fend for himself.

OCD and GAS win, and that makes the Corporations and Governments VERY HAPPY!  

They show us the "shiny new toy" and our eyes bug out and we say "I GOTTA HAVE IT!"  We're actually programmed
to be that way.  Did you think they called what you watched all those years  "programming" for any other reason?

So carry on Mr Consumer...knowing that if the Corporate Giant steps on you..it's OK..they're here to make money,
and you should "just let it go already" because everyone else rolled over and played dead, you should to!

______________________________________________________________________________________

On another note, let me also state that I look for, and post, the deals that I find...NOT to feed your GAS, but so that you can do what you do at the LOWEST POSSIBLE COST and get the MOST for the least.  I feel it is a very small thing to "give back" to this
community that shares so much.  

Also, I do not ask that you agree with me.  I ask that you at least "listen" to what I have to say, and consider it
"logically", and maybe we can ALL "learn something" and benefit from EACH OTHER.  Believe it or not, if we take
back the 'reigns" that were "ours" in the first place, and hold these people accountable for what they do...

We can prevail.

Finally, the ONLY thing I ever asked for, and EVERYONE knows this, from IK, was an apology to their customers for 5 years of lack of support for SampleTank.  THAT seems reasonable to me.  BUT apparently that's too much to ask.  They have, quite literally, done and said the exact opposite.  Mostly because of those of you who continue to stand up for, and support, their irresponsible and reprehensible "Corporate" attitude and behavior, and say "just let it go". 




 
 

The problem is that your theories (accusations) of the reasons why Sampletank 2.5 was not upgraded to 64 bit are just pure conjecture and guesswork, given that you don't have any objective insight into the workings of the company at all. You don't know anything about their code or how it works, and you don't have access to their accounts department. 
 
How do you know, for instance, that had IK channeled their resources into a 64-bit Sampletank 5 years ago, they wouldn't have been steering themselves into dire financial straits? You don't. You have no idea. Back then, it was hard times for all. Consumer spending on luxury items back then was extremely low. People were losing their jobs and their homes left right and center. I lost something like 50% of my business in a very short period of time. While luxury spending has improved somewhat since then, observe how bad it was 5 years ago:
 

 
Given the devastating slump in luxury sales around that time, is it not even slightly feasible (and I'm asking you to substitute reason for emotion here) that a business decision was taken in order to keep the company above water - a decision in which development priorities were changed and resources redirected? Being directly honest and objective about this (instead of emotional), you have to concede this possiblity. Of course I didn't have access to their books either, nor was I present at any of their board meetings, so I'm guessing too. But it's a reasoned guess.
 
The downloads of iRig quickly exceeded one million in 2010. So it was a pretty shrewd business decision. They took advantage of the exploding mobile app market, and of the fact that people were spending less and making smaller purchases back then. If a 64-bit Sampletank 2.5 was not financially viable 5 years ago, then it wasn't financially viable. How would you have felt if, contrary to common business sense, they had plowed their scarce resources into upgrading Sampletank instead of jumping on the iPhone bandwagon, and subsequently gone out of business? How much "support" do you think would have been available to Sampletank users then? 
 
Of course my ideas are conjecture as well, but what I'm not going to do is extrapolate such guesswork into a never ending, obsessive rant and extrapolate it into a shopworn diatribe about the evils of corporate profit. 

sharke
The problem is that your theories (accusations) of the reasons why Sampletank 2.5 was not upgraded to 64 bit are just pure conjecture and guesswork, given that you don't have any objective insight into the workings of the company at all. You don't know anything about their code or how it works, and you don't have access to their accounts department. 
 
How do you know, for instance, that had IK channeled their resources into a 64-bit Sampletank 5 years ago, they wouldn't have been steering themselves into dire financial straits? You don't. You have no idea. Back then, it was hard times for all. Consumer spending on luxury items back then was extremely low. People were losing their jobs and their homes left right and center. I lost something like 50% of my business in a very short period of time. While luxury spending has improved somewhat since then, observe how bad it was 5 years ago:
 

 
Here's what I know Sharke...for a FACT.
 
 
 
 
Given the devastating slump in luxury sales around that time, is it not even slightly feasible (and I'm asking you to substitute reason for emotion here) that a business decision was taken in order to keep the company above water - a decision in which development priorities were changed and resources redirected? Being directly honest and objective about this (instead of emotional), you have to concede this possiblity. Of course I didn't have access to their books either, nor was I present at any of their board meetings, so I'm guessing too. But it's a reasoned guess.
 
The downloads of iRig quickly exceeded one million in 2010. So it was a pretty shrewd business decision. They took advantage of the exploding mobile app market, and of the fact that people were spending less and making smaller purchases back then. If a 64-bit Sampletank 2.5 was not financially viable 5 years ago, then it wasn't financially viable. How would you have felt if, contrary to common business sense, they had plowed their scarce resources into upgrading Sampletank instead of jumping on the iPhone bandwagon, and subsequently gone out of business? How much "support" do you think would have been available to Sampletank users then? 
 
Of course my ideas are conjecture as well, but what I'm not going to do is extrapolate such guesswork into a never ending, obsessive rant and extrapolate it into a shopworn diatribe about the evils of corporate profit. 

You are one lost puppy dog....that's all I'm saying.
 

sharke
The problem is that your theories (accusations) of the reasons why Sampletank 2.5 was not upgraded to 64 bit are just pure conjecture and guesswork, given that you don't have any objective insight into the workings of the company at all. You don't know anything about their code or how it works, and you don't have access to their accounts department. 
 
How do you know, for instance, that had IK channeled their resources into a 64-bit Sampletank 5 years ago, they wouldn't have been steering themselves into dire financial straits? You don't. You have no idea. Back then, it was hard times for all. Consumer spending on luxury items back then was extremely low. People were losing their jobs and their homes left right and center. I lost something like 50% of my business in a very short period of time. While luxury spending has improved somewhat since then, observe how bad it was 5 years ago:
 

 
Given the devastating slump in luxury sales around that time, is it not even slightly feasible (and I'm asking you to substitute reason for emotion here) that a business decision was taken in order to keep the company above water - a decision in which development priorities were changed and resources redirected? Being directly honest and objective about this (instead of emotional), you have to concede this possiblity. Of course I didn't have access to their books either, nor was I present at any of their board meetings, so I'm guessing too. But it's a reasoned guess.
 
The downloads of iRig quickly exceeded one million in 2010. So it was a pretty shrewd business decision. They took advantage of the exploding mobile app market, and of the fact that people were spending less and making smaller purchases back then. If a 64-bit Sampletank 2.5 was not financially viable 5 years ago, then it wasn't financially viable. How would you have felt if, contrary to common business sense, they had plowed their scarce resources into upgrading Sampletank instead of jumping on the iPhone bandwagon, and subsequently gone out of business? How much "support" do you think would have been available to Sampletank users then? 
 
Of course my ideas are conjecture as well, but what I'm not going to do is extrapolate such guesswork into a never ending, obsessive rant and extrapolate it into a shopworn diatribe about the evils of corporate profit. 

Sharke
I believe you are talking on the business side of a company because you also have a company. The decisions a company make to survive the crisis are a companies own decision. 
If someone buys a car it is not only the car they are buying ,it is also the service provided in the first three years that is going to count even more to a customer than the car itself. When you don't support your product , then the product is useless in the customers eyes.
 
The downloads of iRig quickly exceeded one million in 2010. Even if the company asked $2.00 for this software, which they didn't, they would of had a gross income of 2 million dollars. A company that can generate that kind of gross income in a time that consumers are spending less should be thankfull and also should  know that support is the key issue to keeping revenue going and keeping the company alive.
 
Everyone has the right to his/her opinion and I do respect yours, but I have to go with Larry on this one.
 
A product without guarantie and support is loosing ground with the consumer.
 
BTW whether or not making ST2 a 64 bit program 5 years has nothing to do with not supporting your product with updates (fine tuning) if you will. X3 has had 5 upgrades already since the launch of their product.
Enough said.
 

dual mono post ^

I will once again reiterate that neither of you have any definitive insight into the workings of the company, their financials or resources. I don't really think you understand what logic is cclarry. You seem to think it means "supporting a product even at the possible risk of going out of business" because it's the "right thing to do." How would you feel about this if, instead of diverting their time and resources to a profit making venture, they had plowed everything into a 64-bit Sampletank at a time when doing so was a huge risk, and 100 people lost their jobs as a result? Again this is all hypothetical and I have no more objective insight into the facts surrounding their decision than you do, but at least I'm acknowledging the possibility instead of running off at the mouth with a bunch of caustic vitriol based upon a scenario I have no proof of.
 
Of course they were going to continue to sell Sampletank 2 in the meantime. It was a product they'd invested heavily in. And if people were happy with buying a quality 32-bit sample workstation (as many people continue to work quite happily in 32-bit even to this day) on sale, then what does that have to do with you?
 
"They managed to "squeeze out" the resources for updated to Amplitube (their BIGGEST seller) and
T-Racks (their second BIGGEST seller) during that time, and free of charge.  But they didn't have 
the "resources" to update SampleTank (3rd on the list) because of their financial situation???"
 
Again, you're mistaking yourself for someone who has access to the kind of internal facts and figures which would qualify you to make such statements with confidence. How do you know that sales of Amplitube and T-Racks  were looking decidedly healthier than Sampletank, and thus a decision was made to divert finite resources, in a time of great financial risk and uncertainty, into one product and not another?
 
"YET they had the resources to push out iApps galore, and iGadgets galor"
 
Perhaps because a decision was made to divert scarce resources, at a time of economic uncertainty (when businesses were folding all around them), into a product line which was 100x more likely to profit than an upgrade to Sampletank.
 
You keep saying that "they need us, the consumer," but that's a double edged sword. We the consumer need talented software engineers who have studied for years in order to develop the skills to create the tools with which we make music.
 
 
 
 

cclarry

I ask that you at least "listen" to what I have to say, and consider it "logically",
 

Oh come on now! ;<)

In almost every case, If a software company did NOT keep it's product serviced,
people would leave it behind.

In this particular case, a great many did.  Many for Kontakt.  And many for other Samplers.

As I stated, you have your opinion, and you are entitled to it.

Other companies have buckled down, continued to provide excellent customer service and support,
and sailed "through the rough seas" of financial difficulty and come out at the shore on the other
end a better company.

You, in your assertions, which also are "pure speculation" btw...believe that a company has every right 
to abandon it's product, and support thereof, due to "financial hardship".  Simply not logical and
definitely not good for the Company.

Larry, your point has been made over and over again. I agree with you now and I agreed with you before but you are starting grind on my nerves. Just let it go man. You've done all a person can do to express yourself and your views.
 
Please give it a rest, you're lowering the tone.

Kroneborge
I would point out that something like the letter Steve Slate recently sent is free, and can do a lot to smooth relations over with customers.
 
Clear communication can overcome a lot of difficulties.  I know that when I was a waiter MANY years ago, if I talked with my customers, and told them things were behind they would "usually" cut me some slack.
 
For those that haven't seen it
 
 

Dear FG-X and VCC Slate Customer,
This is one of the hardest emails I've ever had to write. The reason for this, is because I really love what I do. But one of the main reasons I love what I do is because I get to make products that make people happy. But clearly, there are a lot of you out there who are quite unhappy, due to the missed deadlines of our VCC and FG-X updates.

First, and this goes without saying, I feel terrible about this. I never intended for this to happen, and I read all the negative comments, and it breaks my heart. Because I failed you guys.

This company means the world to me, and I have always strived to make mindful decisions that would ensure that it remains healthy. But unfortunately, despite the fact that I am often seen around Hollywood Blvd wearing a cape, I have no super powers and am just a mere mortal who makes mortal mistakes. And clearly, I've made mistakes this past year. Let me tell you about them.

As many of you know, we work a long time on our products. Two years ago when AAX was announced, we were just beginning the development of some pretty intense new products, which are all as of this email, unreleased. Two of them you know about, the Virtual Mix Rack, and the Virtual Microphone System. Both of these were new and exciting products that required a lot of effort from the entire team, and so we began to start the R&D. And then, we get hit with AAX.

We were not prepared, nor did we have a big enough team to simultaneously develop big new products while updating old products. My first mistake was realizing that fact too late. What should have happened is a pause in all production to hire more developers to help with our new 64bit AAX framework, pause all new development, and then proceed with full force on all of our legacy updates. Instead, I became fearful. This fear was derived from the fact that we are one of the newer games in town as compared to our competition, and I felt like new product development was crucial enough that we had to keep some part of the team on it while another part worked on the framework and updates. This compromised the productivity of both teams since neither side had enough manpower.

When the framework was complete, we had to decide where to start. So let's just get this out of the way and say it was an obvious choice with VBC and VTM. VBC was written INTO the new framework. Converting it to AAX would be the easiest and more straight forward. Than came the VTM. This was in our old framework and had an insanely complex algorithm, but several of our very talented team members were able to get the port done in the Winter. And now we are left with the VCC and FG-X. Oh boy. Here it goes.

I think it's fair to say that the algorithms, meaning the audio processes, of the VCC and FG-X are some of the best out there for what they aim to do. Well, at least I hope you think that since you bought at least one of them. These were the very first two plugins that Fabrice and I worked on and we're proud of them. But as great as these algorithms sound, the way the code was written back then had a bit to be desired. Ok, they had a lot to be desired. Alright fine, they're a mess.

There was no way we could use the same code for these plugins in our new framework, because we owe it to you, the customer, to improve them. With a cleaner code, they would be bug free, and use dramatically less CPU. Furthermore, there are aspects of our new framework that the VCC and FG-X code is not 1:1 compatible with so it would have taken just as long to convert the old code into the new framework. So the choice was obvious. We started last year to rewrite FG-X and VCC with fresh code, new features, and new algorithms. But again, going back to my first points, the team was overloaded. There were members bouncing back and forth to all the projects one week it was VMR, then VTM AAX update, then VBC bug fixing.. it was insane. And to top it all off, we parted ways with two of our team members in the Spring, making a bad situation even worse.

I do NOT expect sympathy from you. I do NOT consider any of this an excuse. I will stand here in front of you and say we messed up. But rather than drown in our sorrows, I'm going to tell you what we are doing to make things better.

First and foremost, with the exception of the few members finalizing VMR, the entire rest of the team is focused on FG-X and VCC. We will do NO OTHER DEVELOPMENT ON ANY PRODUCT until these two AAX updates are done. Second, we are hiring hiring hiring. We are going to put ourself in a position to be able to execute faster, more efficiently, and we'll be able to meet deadlines and schedules.

So some of you are saying "Enough of the drama, when the hell are we getting our plugins?". And just in case you didn't hate me enough already I can't give a date YET. Because unlike last time, I will not give you a date until I'm ready to put my life on the line because I'm so sure we'll make it. But what I am going to do is make you a promise: You will have an inside look at the productivity of these two projects with weekly emails of information. And I also promise that as soon as I have the confidence to give you a release date that I know is a reality, I will state it in one of these weekly updates.

Last, I'll say that we are working on a possible temporary solution that could get you guys up and running in Pro Tools 11 while we finalize VCC 2.0 and FG-X 2.0. And to end on a positive note, these 2.0 updates will be amazing. Please keep that in mind. With the VCC, it's goiong to be simpler, have new options, and include a new console emulation that I predict will be your new favorite and most used console emulation yet. The FG-X will have a new metering algorithm but that will likely get overshadowed by the new FG-LEVEL algo. This new algo has been over three years in the making and utilizes a brand new loudness process that is so ridiculously transparent that you'll think it's defying the laws of physics.

Ok, so that's all I have for you today, but you'll be hearing from me again soon. I know this is not the email you really want, but I hope you'd agree it's better than silence. You can email me at slate@stevenslate.com. It might take me a bit to get back to you because it's so busy here, but I promise I will. Have a great weekend,

Steven Slate 
 

 
 

Now this is a company that understands the nessessity of customers and their loyalty to a company that gives them information. Probably not the info that they like , but none the less info that shows respect for the customer.
This is how it should work.

What was the question again......?

When's the new Project 5 coming out?
 
Or is it Project 6?

yet I must be correct...you obviously DO NOT have a business degree...and it most certainly is germane to the discussion since we are speaking of a companies priorities.

Steven Slate
 
Dear FG-X and VCC Slate Customer...
 

 
It almost sounds like they are hard at work on some CPU optimization.
 
 
Good to know.

in what way am a being argumentative?