Helpful ReplyI Know There's Some HVAC Guys in Here......

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tbosco
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2013/03/04 07:39:09 (permalink)

I Know There's Some HVAC Guys in Here......

Well, my 28 year old heat pump is on its deathbed, and  I am going shopping for a new one this week.  Damn condenser fan cost me $400 this weekend.  The base “floor” of the old one rusted out about 10 years ago, and I ingeniously patched it up with several cans of “Great Stuff” foam, and the condensate drain deteriorated many moons ago.  Simply amazing how that foam stuff holds up!!  The repair guy told me if my unit had a SEER Rating, it would be about an 8 or 9 by today’s standards.
So I have been researching brands, and I have narrowed it down to a small handful to go look at:
American Standard, Carrier, Trane, Rheem (same as my old one), Maytag, and York.
 I will probably end up with a SEER 14 unit due to cost, but I think I’ll get quotes for SEER 16-19 units just for comparison.  I’ll have to get a “package unit”, as the original is.  I’ll be getting a new thermostat too.
Any suggestions about features from you guys?  Scroll compressors?  Multi-stage heating? Variable speed blower?  Any other tips or advice while shopping?
Right now I’m leaning toward the Maytag, and it has a 12 year warranty, one of the best out there, and it has nice features.  The York is also high on my list.
I’d rather be spending money on my Studio, but…….
 
 

Cheers!

Tony

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craigb
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Re:I Know There's Some HVAC Guys in Here...... 2013/03/04 07:42:40 (permalink)
Ah, a proper HVAC topic!  The last time someone thought it meant High Voltage Alternating Current...  Hehe.

 
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Guitarhacker
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Re:I Know There's Some HVAC Guys in Here...... 2013/03/04 08:18:00 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
I'm not an HVAC guy but I have a bit of experience working on my own and around them for years doing electrical work.

We added on to this house a number of years back and even install a split system solely of the upstairs 3 rooms.... 2 bedrooms for my girls and my office/studio. 

My basic rule of thumb is to research and learn as much as I can about the units available. I want to know what the bells and whistles are, and why I may or may not want or need them. I also look into the reliability of the particular unit I plan to buy. I specifically ask that question to the installers who are quoting a system to me.  Over the years I have found 2 companies that are honest, competent, and reliable.  One guy handles the stuff in my home, the other has the system in my rental property. 

I had a problem the other day with the office/studio system not working. A phone call after I checked the basics.... and in 30 minutes on a Friday afternoon, the guy was in my driveway. 30 minutes later, it was working and he was checking the Freon for me. 

So as far as which companies product to buy?   Listen to what the installers say about each other's brands.... I'm thinking that most of the big brand names you mentioned will all do a decent job. If they were crap, they would not be big brand names. Most are very likely the same/similar units with different stickers on them. 

I try to buy as far up the Seer rating as I can. Of course, the highest two are generally the most recent and most expensive. So I normally will buy something a bit lower, but always understanding that the higher the efficiency the lower the operating cost. 

I don't know much about the bells and whistles you mentioned but the multi stage heat strips is a good idea. Only use what you need based on demand. The vari-speed blower is good too. 

We just replaced our old washing machine and dryer with new ones. The new ones were at the higher end of the star rating system and I was amazed to see that using the washer for a year at the electrical rate in this area would only cost about $12 for the year....!!!!   Wow... 

So the efficiency rating is important. I have a total of 4 heating units to maintain and care for and keep in working condition. One is a gas pack/AC unit, two are split units, and one is a package heat pump/AC. 

It will soon be time to replace the gas pack.... it's rapidly approaching the end of it's useful life. I believe it is about 26 or so years old.  More than one time I have been out there in the rain and snow with a flashlight and tools working on it. It has been fairly reliable and will go years without any major issues. It will be a blessing, albeit an expensive one, to replace it, because the ductwork under the house will need replacing too.  It is oversized (it used to have to heat & cool the entire house) and as a result is not efficient and I hate to see the electric and gas bills as a result. 

Hope this was helpful..... if not, perhaps a bit entertaining.

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#3
tbosco
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Re:I Know There's Some HVAC Guys in Here...... 2013/03/04 09:18:57 (permalink)
Herb-  Many thanks pal.  I'm totally with ya on researching and listening to the installers.  I always ask them which one(s) do you work on the LEAST?

I can only hope that a new "high tech" model will last as long as my old "contractor grade" Rheem....lol.  If nothing else, it HAS to be quieter!  Mine sounds like a chopper landing in the back yard!

Cheers!

Tony

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digi2ns
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Re:I Know There's Some HVAC Guys in Here...... 2013/03/04 09:51:32 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
Mornin' Tony

Heres my thoughts on replacing your system.

One thing to keep in mind is your recent repair-$400.  Most times after a repair on an older system like this that company will use that as a selling point to replace your unit for you carrying that cost over to be applied to the new system saving you a little.  If this company is one of your options in replacement, see what they have to offer after install as far as what is included-Warranty, Annual Maintenance Services that will be included, discounts on future repairs, etc...  Most companies will include Maintenance/Cleaning for a year or 2 at little or no cost to the customer.  This is important for those with Heat Pumps and will pay for itself year after year and save on the systems wear and tear.


As far as brands the ones you have listed are all good systems-

Trane and American Standard are pretty much the same systems minus some bells and whistles-American Standard is the Builders model (Less expensive) 

York, Rheem, and Trane are very Proprietary in their parts for replacement unlike Carrier.
When something goes wrong, if the Service guy doesnt have it on their truck, you will have to wait until business hours to be able to get a unit fixed. Most Carrier parts can be changed out with out much problems until the correct replacement part can be picked up from a supply house if not available on the truck.  Carrier parts are also generally cheaper in repair costs as well.

DONT let the SEER rating sway your decision to much-Dont hurt your head with it.  My opinion is not to go with the Best and stay somewhere in the middle.  The overall cost and future repairs DONT justify the initial cost at install. IMHO   The sales men will throw out there things like Coefficients (refered to as SEER for AC systems), Variable Speed Motors, Expansion Valves in place of Pistons on metering devices, and so on. 


For heat pumps myself Id prefer Staged Heat strips (meaning the come in/turn on) one at a time in a timed manner.  ( I dont like them all kicking on at once racking up the electric bill if not needed )


Some of the newer system like the Tranes with the Variable Speed motors that have a nice feature which keep the Blower Fan on low ALL THE TIME-Nice to keep an even temp and no stagnant spots in the house.


WARRANTIES--I believe regardless of the SEER ratings or system cost, You will find one thing will be consistant,
Compressors will all pretty much have the same warranty 5 or 10 years,  its all the other stuff on the systems that vary.  A lot of time it might be 1 or 3 years, (or maybe a "Tail Light" warranty  ).  Dont confuse the Warranty by getting tunnel vision by the longest one on the system, its the smaller things like the Circuit boards, motors, contactors, etc.,.. that wil eat you up too)




On your thermostat, I would definitely have it replaced.  Not sure what is available today but some run strictly off batteries (Dont get that Model)  You want one that is powered off the Heat Pump with a Battery back up. The batteries last much longer and will allow you to change them on some sort of schedule instead of dying and dumping all the programming when you least expect it.  
Thermostats are not very expensive (Look at Lowes, Home Depot, etc...   before talking with you sales guys-Maybe they will throw one in or atleast not rape you on it if you let them know the ones at Lowes etc...  are the same and much cheaper    ) 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
I guess the main thing for me is to NOT get carried away and sell yourself on the BEST current efficiency rating. To me it just isnt worth it now or down the road (Unless you have funds to just chunk around LOL).

--Get a good warranty
--Get a good service/maintenance plan
--Use a company you are comfortable with and trust that they will have what it takes to fix it "After Hours"
--The Brands you have listed are good ones






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#5
tbosco
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Re:I Know There's Some HVAC Guys in Here...... 2013/03/04 13:32:08 (permalink)
Great advice Michael.  Thanks!

Cheers!

Tony

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digi2ns
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Re:I Know There's Some HVAC Guys in Here...... 2013/03/04 13:55:54 (permalink)
Any time Tony

Ive been out of it since about 2001 but Im sure not much has changed as far as the basics of it all.

Hope it helps ya out  


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#7
tbosco
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Re:I Know There's Some HVAC Guys in Here...... 2013/03/08 14:12:09 (permalink)
OK... I went with the Trane 14 SEER.  Just gave them the go-ahead this morning.  Can't wait to get rid of that old clunker in the back yard!  Woo-hoo!

Now I can't afford guitar strings.

Cheers!

Tony

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Starise
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Re:I Know There's Some HVAC Guys in Here...... 2013/03/08 14:20:35 (permalink)
 Good choice!

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digi2ns
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Re:I Know There's Some HVAC Guys in Here...... 2013/03/08 16:31:18 (permalink)
Nice,

You will definitely see a good difference in your utility bills

What did they go with on the T-Stat?


MIKE

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#10
tbosco
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Re:I Know There's Some HVAC Guys in Here...... 2013/03/08 20:50:26 (permalink)
I haven't seen the t-stat yet, but I think it's a touchscreen thing...controls humidity too i think.

Cheers!

Tony

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yorolpal
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Re:I Know There's Some HVAC Guys in Here...... 2013/03/08 21:45:09 (permalink)
Our 17 year old system went kaput last year during 110 degree days in July.  We got a new Trane system (both heat and air) 16 seer with special filter (that my wife insisted on) and it has both lowered our bills considerably AND increased our comfort level by extreme magnitudes of order.  Eye-wateringly expensive but worth every penny. Other than the pipe that carries the sewer AWAY from your house its the single most important expenditure you may make.  Don't go cheap.

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