I don't really need the Expander version or do I?

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fitzj
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2011/09/21 18:15:32 (permalink)

I don't really need the Expander version or do I?

I have the UAD 2 plugins and they make fantastic tape saturation plugins. Is is really necessary to get more of a lessor quality? Besides what else is included for example any major bug fixes?
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    John
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    Re:I don't really need the Expander version or do I? 2011/09/21 18:18:58 (permalink)
    Its up to you what you want to do. Lesser quality? Different perhaps lesser not too sure that is applicable.

    Best
    John
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    LANEY
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    Re:I don't really need the Expander version or do I? 2011/09/21 18:54:34 (permalink)
    Need? No, it isn't like food.   But it may make it taste better if you don't like the taste of your current plug.  If you are totally satisfied with what you have than stay there. Not Less quality just different taste.



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    bitman
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    Re:I don't really need the Expander version or do I? 2011/09/21 20:17:33 (permalink)
    Sure you do
    We all do

    Come along now....
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    offnote
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    Re:I don't really need the Expander version or do I? 2011/09/21 20:48:11 (permalink)
    no you don't.
    #5
    fitzj
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    Re:I don't really need the Expander version or do I? 2011/09/22 03:31:41 (permalink)
    Will wait and see the full list of what is included. The notation software include dis terrible and I use Sibilius so if I could inculcate that within Sonar x1 it would be better. It will be interesting what will happen when the next major comes around.
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    ProjectM
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    Re:I don't really need the Expander version or do I? 2011/09/22 07:07:54 (permalink)
    MusicXML and the new FXchain is what really intrigues me - and the new potential of PC is interesting too so I will definitely get the expanded. But I can see that you don't need it. But it's cool to me

    but having said that, a big knob on my Pro channel - how can you resist??!

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    tyacko
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    Re:I don't really need the Expander version or do I? 2011/09/22 07:38:08 (permalink)
    fitzj,

    I'm probably not going to get this "Expanded" product.  I also own a UAD-2 card and am very please with the results I get from them.

    I must admit that I'm not all that excited about the latest course Roland/Cakewalk is taking with the embedded fx.  I really appreciated knowing that the plug support was all about any VST plugs and that they could be use in any other DAW as well.  Now proprietory is the "big thing". 

    I say let the VST plug in vendors work on making the very best plugs in the world and have Roland/Cakewalk work to be the best software DAW.  Stop worrying about have to think you have to cover everything.  Do what you are (a DAW program) very well.  I'm certainly not an owner because of their VSTs.

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    daryl1968
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    Re:I don't really need the Expander version or do I? 2011/09/22 07:46:48 (permalink)
    Tyacko -I say let the VST plug in vendors work on making the very best plugs in the world and have Roland/Cakewalk work to be the best software DAW' - that is the point - I believe that the new PC compatible plugs will be predominantly supplied by third parties. The development packs are being made freely available to third party plug developers.
    I, personally use Sonar exclusively and say bring on the good value, quality X1 only plugs.
    #9
    tyacko
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    Re:I don't really need the Expander version or do I? 2011/09/22 07:52:39 (permalink)
    Oh, so I can swap out the eq/compressor, with any VST plug I have today?

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    daryl1968
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    Re:I don't really need the Expander version or do I? 2011/09/22 08:04:58 (permalink)
    From what I have read, the PC plugs that are going to be made available by third parties will be versions of their VST's. Nothing stopping anyone stilll buying the VST's available out there - they will still work in X1 and other DAW's. From a marketing perspective, we, as consumers, have the choice if we want to buy either the full blown VST or the PC plug. If Cakewalk want to sell any PC plugs, they will have to be reasonably priced.
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    thomasabarnes
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    Re:I don't really need the Expander version or do I? 2011/09/22 08:43:24 (permalink)
    Oh, so I can swap out the eq/compressor, with any VST plug I have today?

     
    No. The third party modules made for the Pro Channel will only be compatible for use in the Pro Channel. Regular VST plug ins cannot be used as modules in the Pro Channel.


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    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re:I don't really need the Expander version or do I? 2011/09/22 09:31:58 (permalink)
    But can of course be used in the Fx bin like we do currently.

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    FastBikerBoy
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    Re:I don't really need the Expander version or do I? 2011/09/22 10:31:22 (permalink)
    Bristol_Jonesey


    But can of course be used in the Fx bin like we do currently.


    Yeah but think of the limitations.......... um..........er......um.........er..... well there's bound to be some. I'm going to get jolly angry about them too I can tell you.
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    thomasabarnes
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    Re:I don't really need the Expander version or do I? 2011/09/22 11:18:36 (permalink)
    I've got to say that it's a down side that the effects of the 3rd party modules can only be compatible with the Pro Channel and SONAR, but if the price is considerably lower and the effects quality eqivalent or better than the 3rd party VST equivalents, that would be a good thing and make the modules worthy to be purchased, in my view.
    post edited by thomasabarnes - 2011/09/22 11:26:11


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    Bub
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    Re:I don't really need the Expander version or do I? 2011/09/22 11:35:19 (permalink)
    ProjectM

    ...  I will definitely get the expanded. But I can see that you don't need it. But it's cool to me
    I feel the same way about 64bit vs. 32bit. 64bit is cool ... but you don't need it.

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    Re:I don't really need the Expander version or do I? 2011/09/22 11:41:39 (permalink)
    FastBikerBoy


    Bristol_Jonesey


    But can of course be used in the Fx bin like we do currently.


    Yeah but think of the limitations.......... um..........er......um.........er..... well there's bound to be some. I'm going to get jolly angry about them too I can tell you.


    Yes Karl - I'll be slightly annoyed, and well, just plain miffed!

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    mudgel
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    Re:I don't really need the Expander version or do I? 2011/09/22 11:50:04 (permalink)
    I can just see a long list of 3rd party developers jumping to support another new standard for Cakewalk SONAR only ProChannel plugins.
    It was only a short while ago there was such a hue and cry because Cakewalk hadn't supported VST 3 yet and here we are a psuedo VST that will only work in SONAR. What will you pay for such a plugin?

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    simpleman
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    Re:I don't really need the Expander version or do I? 2011/09/22 11:57:40 (permalink)
    daryl1968


    Tyacko -I say let the VST plug in vendors work on making the very best plugs in the world and have Roland/Cakewalk work to be the best software DAW' - that is the point - I believe that the new PC compatible plugs will be predominantly supplied by third parties. The development packs are being made freely available to third party plug developers.
    I, personally use Sonar exclusively and say bring on the good value, quality X1 only plugs.


    Question is, Cakewalk ever include VST3 support?
    #19
    daryl1968
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    Re:I don't really need the Expander version or do I? 2011/09/22 12:17:52 (permalink)
    Mudgel - only time will tell - if Cakewalk have made it an easy transition with their development packs and are going to be actively marketing the plugs to the user base, why wouldn't third parties jump on the wagon? $49 for the first one (expander/gate) - doesn't seem too expensive to me.
    #20
    pwal
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    Re:I don't really need the Expander version or do I? 2011/09/22 12:31:46 (permalink)
    can someone get the sdk & make a vst subhost? kthx

    list of stuff
    #21
    tyacko
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    Re:I don't really need the Expander version or do I? 2011/09/22 12:49:49 (permalink)
    Are we able to put fx before and after the PC?  Let's say I want to use a third party VST (say tape emulation) ahead of the PC, but would like to use the compressor from the PC, then apply an EQ from another third party VST.  Will that be possible with the "Expanded"?

    I know that we don't know but it would get interesting to here what Cakewalk says...

    If they say "Yes!" to that question, then I'm on-board, because then they can create all the plugs they want and give me a way to chain them before, between, and/or after the PC strip.

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    FastBikerBoy
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    Re:I don't really need the Expander version or do I? 2011/09/22 13:18:55 (permalink)
    I'm guessing but as I understand it the answer to that is yes. If the VST is "prochannel compliant" (TM) it can be re-ordered just like any other PC module.

    There's no need to wait either, if you already have a VST put it in the FX bin and make the PC post FX, job done.
    #23
    thomasabarnes
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    Re:I don't really need the Expander version or do I? 2011/09/22 13:28:01 (permalink)

    Are we able to put fx before and after the PC?
     
    Yes. We do already know about these routing capabilities.
     
    The Pro Channel has a Pre/Post button on it that says Post. When the Post button is not lit the Pro Channel is in Pre mode (the ProChannel signal is routed prior to the channel’s effects bin). Click the Post button so that it is lit up and the Pro Channel is in Post mode (the ProChannel signal is routed after the channel’s effects bin).
     
    A track's signal flow is as follows: Audio interface input signal or sound on a hard drive>Pro Channel Pre mode> FX Bin> Pro Channel Post mode> Volume parameter> Pan parameter> Output parameter> assigned bus or Main.
     
    So with the Pro Channel in Post mode this is how you would do what you asked above:
     
    Thrid party VST (tape emulation) in FX Bin>Pro Channel Compressor on>3rd Party EQ VST on a send to an assigned Buss.
     
    According to what you say, I reckon you have your cash ready for ExPanded? :)
     
    EDIT:
     
    Made a boo boo. I meant to say "So with the Pro Channel in Post mode this is how you would do what you asked above:," so I edited Pre mode to Post mode.

    post edited by thomasabarnes - 2011/09/22 14:49:39


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    John
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    Re:I don't really need the Expander version or do I? 2011/09/22 13:36:17 (permalink)
    One more ability is the internal routing in PC itself.  The modules can be chained anyway one wants.

    Best
    John
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    Rain
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    Re:I don't really need the Expander version or do I? 2011/09/22 13:43:45 (permalink)
    mudgel


    I can just see a long list of 3rd party developers jumping to support another new standard for Cakewalk SONAR only ProChannel plugins.
    It was only a short while ago there was such a hue and cry because Cakewalk hadn't supported VST 3 yet and here we are a psuedo VST that will only work in SONAR. What will you pay for such a plugin?

    I didn't think that this was what Cakewalk intended - developing yet another standard, hoping that developers would jump in. I thought that they actually selected partners - in this case Softube - to develop parts of their own channel strip/buy their algorithms. 

    Cakewalk pushed behind WDM/DX and resisted Asio/VST long enough to know better than to propose yet another standard, one that's restricted to one application, I would guess.

    When I look at the no compromise Wave Arts Tube Saturation, and how much CPU it needs, I can't help but wonder how others can claim to offer the same results using so little resources that you can use it on dozens of tracks at once. 

    Anyway, these days, the more I mess with saturation when mixing, the more I find myself bypassing it altogether and going back to the clean tracks and transparent plug-ins. 





    post edited by Rain - 2011/09/22 13:45:09

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    tyacko
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    Re:I don't really need the Expander version or do I? 2011/09/22 14:13:17 (permalink)
    thomasbarnes said...

    According to what you say, I reckon you have your cash ready for ExPanded? :)


    Oh yeah, definitely after I try the "trial" of Expanded first!  ;)

    Thanks everyone for the feedback and options.  I'll definitely try them out.  I can't wait to daisy channel mutiple PCs with the UAD plugs when this functionality comes out!

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    thomasabarnes
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    Re:I don't really need the Expander version or do I? 2011/09/22 14:20:05 (permalink)
    forum software mistake...edited





    post edited by thomasabarnes - 2011/09/22 14:28:26


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    ProjectM
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    Re:I don't really need the Expander version or do I? 2011/09/22 14:27:37 (permalink)
    Im with Rain here. It's more logic (to me) that when Cakewalk say the PC will be open for modules from other companies it probably means that they aquire code based on a third party developers product and have it modified to suit the PC and sold (through Cakewalk) at a significant smaller cost than a full plugin would cost at said third party developer. After all, it will be only single modules so it should be cheaper. The way I see it - if this is correct - is that Cakewalk have the oportunity to supply us with high end effects at a low cost and imedeately at hand through the PC. In my book, that's a good thing
     
    BTW: speaking of Waves (or were we?), imagine the One Knob effects suite available for Pro Channel. I don't know how they sound or what they are like to use but seem to fit the form factor - although price most certainly wouldn't be lower... I guess

    Is it just me who are dying to try out the new FXchain 2.0?
    post edited by ProjectM - 2011/09/22 14:29:32

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    tyacko
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    Re:I don't really need the Expander version or do I? 2011/09/22 14:30:04 (permalink)
    Yeah, I got that thomasbarnes thanks again for that info with the current implementation.  I'm looking forward to putting VST fx between the PC if I'm following you all (for example but not limited too, VST tape emulation, PC comp, VST EQ, PC saturation, VST limiter) when this new "Expanded" comes out!  That will definitely make this a flexible solution.

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