I made a mud pie

Hi redbarchetta
Could be a few things going on:

1. It just sounds shockingly different on your Klipsch. This is really possible...I know that I'm still always a bit surprised when I shift over to consumer speakers. OTOH, that's why you have them, right?

2. If the Klipsh speakers are in a different spot in the room than the nearfields, they could be interacting with the room differently and you could be getting some cancellation (particularly if you're in an untreated room). Only way to really solve this is to treat the room, although some folks on the forum swear by products like IKMM ARC (I'm not one of them, but to each their own). Problems like these are broadly referred to as problems with "mix portability". To find out if this is your problem, take a mix to another playback environment (car stereos are really common for this) and see if you continue to have problems in the low frequencies. If you do, you get to start down the giant rabbit hole that is room treatment and speaker calibration. A good place to start for that stuff is here: http://www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html. 

Re: multiple outputs, most folks I'm aware of do this by using a monitor management system rather than multiple output devices. If you're using ASIO, Sonar can use one and only one driver at any time. If you're using WDM you can have more than one driver active, but it's always been a bit clunky for me. Monitor managers let you have multiple speaker sets that you can switch in and out of. So, for example, my "A" monitors are a set of Focals and my "B" monitors are some Auratone grot boxes. I switch between them using buttons on my Presonus Central Station (which I kinda dislike, but it gets the job done for now).

Good luck
Dean

Hi Dean, 

The monitors sit directly above the klipsh satellites.  The Klipsch have a dedicated subwoofer.  And yes, I notice the same low frequency issues in my car with a nice stereo and sub.  Unfortunitly, I don't have many options for sound treatment in my room. This is not a dedicated recording room, rather a shared office space with my family. 

I fully understand the concepts of room treatment coming from the high end home theater hobby. The reality is, I'm going to have to work with what I have as far as room goes which is why I was hoping I might be able to learn how to adjust my mixing with the mindset of knowing I need to thin the low frequencies a bit and or a good set of headphones and or the accessory sub woofer you can buy that's made for my set of monitors. 

RedB...you have a lot of very similar stuff I have...DR-880...I have HS 80M's (which I LOVE)...I'd like to have your GT-100, as I have an ME- 70...you seem to have a good thing going...stay at it...I will listen to what you have when I get home...

1) You probably need to treat your room.

2) Your monitors may not be reproducing enough low end to hear it while you are mixing.

3) A sub may help, but it will still take lots of practice to be able to hear what a mix that will translate well sounds like in your mixing environment.

Regards,
Dan

Hi,redbarchetta,

this bass mudness  happend very often with the yamahas and has imo 2 causes:
The yamaha ( HS 50m speaker are önly 5 " and so they don´t
build the exact  bass area .
Even my HS 80 m ( which I really like ) have a one flaw,
this is the bass area ( - ca. 200 Hz)
What I do to work arround this flaw is ,that I hear a reference mix of a very good 
mixed professionel song,and than mixing so long till my song sounds nearly or equal to this reference song.
All that on the Hs 80 m ,you know..........
If one makes this often,once you will find yourself in the situation not to need a reference mix any more.

Another idea is to buy better monitor´s,
but really better ones cost 1000 bucks and more,  
  the yamahas are imo in that price range a gift!.

Have fun
Pragi

I forget to mention that the reference song should be of the in same  
style then the song which has to be mixed!

   

Pragi


Hi,redbarchetta,

What I do to work arround this flaw is ,that I hear a reference mix of a very good 
mixed professionel song,and than mixing so long till my song sounds nearly or equal to this reference song.

Thanks, that's a great tip!

Hmmm...VMR box...interesting...just now read up on it abit...I might need to look into this...and only 50 bucks...thanks for the mention Sharke!

Sharke,
thanks for reminding me to the vrm box.
Is it really only 50 bucks or so?
Then it´s a no brainer imo.

So, about headphones, what are people using?  I know some can cost as much as $500, but for my needs that seems a bit extreme.

Yeah?  Shlt, I have a set of vmoda ear buds that cost around $110.  I don't mind spending money on good quality sound and I personally think the vmoda line is the best ear buds I've ever heard. 

You need a quality pair of headphones for the VRM box otherwise it defeats the whole purpose (Focusrite specifies that). By "quality," they mean something with as flat a frequency response as possible. Therefore Beats headphones (or any other cans with a colored response) are not so good. Think about it: if the purpose of the VRM box is to recreate the frequency response of various monitors and speakers, then its efforts are wasted if you're going to send those frequencies to something which colors the sound further. 

ATH M-50's are a great pair of cans for the price and are very highly rated in the audio world. 

redbarchetta


Right, I figured I'd want "monitor" type headphones not "hi-fi" headphones.  That's why I've never tried to mix with my earbuds. They sound crazy good, but they are meant for listening to music, not mixing.

Yeah it's so tempting to listen on cans that make everything sound great, I have a pair of Grado SR80i's that I use for composition and tracking and they make listening so pleasurable because the sound is so open, but I know if I try and mix on them I'm going to go too heavy on the bass. 

Several replies here suggest improving your listening environment or monitors as a solution to the problem. But it seems to me that this sort of misses the point.

Lets say you have a perfectly treated room and truly "linear" monitors and using your ears in that environment you produce an impeccable mix. Will you not have the same type of problem when you play that mix in an imperfect environment on speakers that are undoubtedly not linear? Many of the devices that listeners will be using are distorted by design to boost certain frequencies, and many have the potential for the listener to adjust an equalizer in ways that you cannot even imagine.

The advantage of a perfect mixing environment, if there is one, is that what you hear will be consistent and represent the actual frequencies in the mix. But to convert that mix to something you can play in the car without adjustment, you would need to either imagine or model how it will sound in that environment. The ability to pre-visualize (pre-herenize?) how it will sound is probably the major skill that professionals have to master. The best way to "model" various listening environments is to play the mix in those environments, where, as you have found, they frequently do not cut it. The VRM devices are a way to more conveniently do this, than trying to mix while riding down the freeway. 

In any case, it is difficult to imagine how a "perfect" mix could be moved to all listening transducers/environments/listeners with equally good results. Hence even cell phones typically have equalizers. Do not blame your reference monitors for the failings of the cheap stuff your music will actually be played on. But you will have to take into account the translation of your perfect mix into real world sound if you want to minimize this kind of problem.

Roll off everythign under 40Hz on your master track with an eq. That should help cut some of the mud.

Frostysnake


I have never mixed in the cans...might need to try it...

I wouldn't recommend it as an exclusive method unless you really have to. I live in a building in which noise carries and the only time I have to mix is at night, so I have no choice. Also have to think about your ears - they can be damaged by long exposure to loud headphones. But since a huge proportion of music is consumed on headphones these days, I would say checking your mix on them is essential. I use my ATH M-50's and the VRM box but also check on a pair of iPhone buds every now and then too.