Helpful ReplyI need a headphone recommendation

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smallstonefan
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2016/09/03 10:58:29 (permalink)

I need a headphone recommendation

Hi all,
 
I have various headphones and Sonarworks and they have all served me well. However, last night I started playing around with some ambient stuff and found that sound design of subtle evolving pads in a mix of other things can't easily be done on my Adams and my headphones are "too weak".
 
I need a good pair of closed or semi-closed that have some real volume to them. I am using my UAD Apollo interface's headphone amp.
 
I also want a pair compatible with Sonarworks.
 
what to do?
#1
bitflipper
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Re: I need a headphone recommendation 2016/09/03 12:04:24 (permalink)
The problem is more likely with your headphone amp's output impedance rather than with the headphones specifically. A dedicated headphone amplifier might be the solution, although it might cost more than a new pair of headphones. They'll typically have a lower output impedance than the ones built into interfaces. First step is to look up the impedance of your preferred headphones and choose a headphone amplifier based on that.


All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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#2
smallstonefan
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Re: I need a headphone recommendation 2016/09/03 12:41:10 (permalink)
Thanks Bit. The Apollo manual says:
 
Maximum Output Power is 80 milliwatts into 600 Ohms 
 
Now, I'm off to try and find out if that is good or bad...
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smallstonefan
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Re: I need a headphone recommendation 2016/09/03 12:47:04 (permalink)
It looks like the headphones I was using (Sony 7509) run at 24 Ohm. 
 
So, would I benefit from cans with higher Ohms?
 
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Rimshot
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Re: I need a headphone recommendation 2016/09/03 14:34:17 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby bapu 2016/09/03 19:41:44
ATH M-50's but you need some normally good power. I like them much better than the AKG 240's.

Rimshot 

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Rbh
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Re: I need a headphone recommendation 2016/09/03 15:37:57 (permalink)
Your Sony's should sound quite loud compared to 600 Ohm headphones. The Sony's are pretty good phones too, I think you're only going to get a slight performance upgrade using higher end phones.
post edited by Rbh - 2016/09/03 15:59:19

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smallstonefan
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Re: I need a headphone recommendation 2016/09/03 17:49:58 (permalink)
Rbh
Your Sony's should sound quite loud compared to 600 Ohm headphones. The Sony's are pretty good phones too, I think you're only going to get a slight performance upgrade using higher end phones.



Thanks, that's good to know! These were expensive headphones back when I bought them, and I love them. I wish there was a Sonarworks profile for them...
#7
bapu
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Re: I need a headphone recommendation 2016/09/03 19:22:42 (permalink)
Rimshot
ATH M-50's but you need some normally good power. I like them much better than the AKG 240's.


+1 Those bad boys are LOUD. I run mine through a HC 6 off my RME UFX Interface. Killer Diller for sure. And they are Sonarworks compatible. 
#8
cclarry
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Re: I need a headphone recommendation 2016/09/04 08:04:21 (permalink)
I think you want "clarity" rather then "loud"...

These bad boys are flat and really clear...50mm drivers and won't break the bank...

http://www.zzounds.com/item--AKAMPCHDPHNS
 
they're built like a tank...and originally cost $499....and currently
sell for $199 just about everywhere, but are $69.99 
at zzounds and AMS....

Check out the reviews on them....


#9
bitflipper
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Re: I need a headphone recommendation 2016/09/04 09:32:37 (permalink)
There aren't a whole lot of manufacturers who offer high-impedance, high-fidelity headphones. However, when you get up into the stratosphere of high-end cans, they're nearly all high-impedance.
 
Beyerdynamics' excellent DT880 (semi-open) is one of the few mid-priced hi-z models, and it's actually available in 3 impedances, including 600 ohms. (The company also makes a well-regarded headphone amplifier with switchable output impedance - for a couple grand!.)
 
Impedance matching is nearly as important for headphones as for speakers in general. You wouldn't hook up 4-ohm speakers to your 16-ohm P.A. amplifier and expect optimal performance. (You might even blow up the amp!) Like speakers, headphones are current-driven devices. The lower their impedance, the greater the current required of the amplifier. High-impedance headphones are more efficient, with more windings (smaller wire) in their voice coils so that it takes less current to generate the magnetic field. So yes, higher-impedance cans might be a better match for your interface's headphone amp.
 
The downside is that if you ever want to use those hi-z headphones with your portable music player or smartphone, they might not perform as well because portable devices operate at lower voltages.
 
 


All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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smallstonefan
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Re: I need a headphone recommendation 2016/09/04 10:00:51 (permalink)
Thanks Larry - I'm leaning to the ATH-M50x since it has a Sonarworks profile. The Akias look like a good deal but it doesn't have the Sonarworks support...
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smallstonefan
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Re: I need a headphone recommendation 2016/09/04 10:04:10 (permalink)
Thanks Bit. 
 
These two statements seemed contradictory:
 
"The lower their impedance, the greater the current required of the amplifier."
 
and

 "The downside is that if you ever want to use those hi-z headphones with your portable music player or smartphone, they might not perform as well because portable devices operate at lower voltages."
 
What did I miss?
 
#12
smallstonefan
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Re: I need a headphone recommendation 2016/09/04 10:04:20 (permalink)
dupe dupe
post edited by smallstonefan - 2016/09/04 10:27:41
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bitflipper
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Re: I need a headphone recommendation 2016/09/04 10:41:04 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby smallstonefan 2016/09/04 11:14:09
Power = current * voltage, meaning N watts can be achieved by high current and low voltage or vice versa. 1 watt can be 1 ampere at 1 volt, or it can be 1 milliamp at 1,000 volts. Either way, it's one Watt, the difference being the load impedance. 
 
Hi-z = low current, high voltage
Lo-z = high current, low voltage
 
These are generalizations. There are certainly high-voltage, low-impedance loads (e.g. electric motors) and there are low-voltage high-impedance loads (guitar pickups). But think of impedance as the amount of resistance to current flow (using the word "resistance" by its dictionary definition, not as an electronics term). The higher the impedance, the more voltage is needed to push a given amount of current through it. 


All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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pwalpwal
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Re: I need a headphone recommendation 2016/09/04 10:47:38 (permalink)
any way you can test the possible candidates against the material you think isn't being correctly/accurately/usefully being reproduced before committing?

just a sec

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smallstonefan
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Re: I need a headphone recommendation 2016/09/04 10:54:36 (permalink)
Thanks again bit! I'm wondering if waiting until I can afford a nice set like those DT880s is the way to go, rather than add another mid-line headphone to the group.
 
pwalpwal - now THAT would be awesome. :)
#16
JCB
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Re: I need a headphone recommendation 2016/09/04 11:56:42 (permalink)
      I have a pair of Sony MDR-7509 and Beyerdynamic DT 770 Pro 80 ohms headphones. I now almost never use the Sony. Both are enclosed type. I use these in conjunction with Mackie HR624 speakers. I prefer the 770 because of their wide frequency response, especially for monitoring the low frequencies. Also, the isolation of the 770 is better than the Sony. These Mackie models  are a bit light on lows but the mid range is better than the HR824 (which have betters lows). The speakers are a also a bit dull sounding compared to some but this seems to translate well to other systems e.g. car audio and Hi-Fi. This compromise between speakers and headphones works for me.
      I record vocals, acoustic and electric guitars, BFD 3 drums, various plug-ins including Omnisphere 2 and the Sonar plug-ins for stings, pads etc..
      My audio interface is the Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 and the headphones are fine using the headphone outputs on this.
 
      You don't mention what other headphones you have but I hope this may be of some help. Happy hunting.
 
     

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cclarry
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Re: I need a headphone recommendation 2016/09/04 13:12:03 (permalink)
smallstonefan
Thanks Larry - I'm leaning to the ATH-M50x since it has a Sonarworks profile. The Akias look like a good deal but it doesn't have the Sonarworks support...




The Akai ARE low impedence...and can be used with devices Small...
and they won't require Sonarworks...they are pretty flat right out of the box.

I bought them to compliment my ATH-M50's...

I really like them...but they are not High Impedence, as bit said...

Now...Newegg has Beyerdynamic DT-770 Pro's for $110 right now...
http://www.newegg.com/Pro...F-00D2-00002-_-Product




#18
smallstonefan
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Re: I need a headphone recommendation 2016/09/04 14:36:44 (permalink)
Thanks everyone! JCB - that was helpful, and Larry that sale is too good to pass up! :)
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Re: I need a headphone recommendation 2016/09/05 01:18:42 (permalink)
cclarry
smallstonefan
Thanks Larry - I'm leaning to the ATH-M50x since it has a Sonarworks profile. The Akias look like a good deal but it doesn't have the Sonarworks support...




The Akai ARE low impedence...and can be used with devices Small...
and they won't require Sonarworks...they are pretty flat right out of the box.

I bought them to compliment my ATH-M50's...

I really like them...but they are not High Impedence, as bit said...

Now...Newegg has Beyerdynamic DT-770 Pro's for $110 right now...
http://www.newegg.com/Pro...F-00D2-00002-_-Product




The KRK's are suppose to be extremely flat also but I noticed a huge change in the sound and improvement in my final mixes...   ears... mine and others said it all to me.  

Dana
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#20
Hatstand
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Re: I need a headphone recommendation 2016/09/05 02:17:00 (permalink)
I picked up a pair of AKG 702's which have a sonarworks profile on a deal. Sound great via sonarworks and they are comfortable.

post edited by Hatstand - 2016/09/05 02:47:54

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anxiousmofo
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Re: I need a headphone recommendation 2016/09/07 13:58:04 (permalink)
The MPC headphones must have been discontinued.  They  are no longer available at AMS or zzounds.  Good news is that I bought them when they were available, and I agree with cclarry that they were a quality steal at the sales' asking price.

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Re: I need a headphone recommendation 2016/09/07 16:39:52 (permalink)
Remember also.... YOU can SEND them your particular headphones and they will analyze the, and create a custom profile for you
 

Dana
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#23
smallstonefan
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Re: I need a headphone recommendation 2016/09/21 23:12:00 (permalink)
OK, so the DT 990 Pro 250Ohm headphones came in today. Wow, they really hype the high end - HOWEVER, with Sonarworks they are golden!!! I could mix with these. Also, listening to some Pink Floyd using Sonarworks for correction is pretty damn cool - you can really hear the separation of each instrument, and the reverbs involved. Personally, I like these much better than the 770s...
 
I'm now good to go - thanks to all for the info.
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patm300e
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Re: I need a headphone recommendation 2016/09/22 07:52:22 (permalink)
bapu
+1  for the Rane HC 6 I am using that as well...Got mine off ebay from a defunct studio for less that $100! 



 

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bitflipper
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Re: I need a headphone recommendation 2016/09/22 10:31:09 (permalink)
James, how about posting the correction curve for the DT990's? I'm curious to see what frequencies are hyped, according to Sonarworks.
 
Here's what head-fi.org shows, a significant peak at ~8.5KHz. Actually, I'd describe it as a broad upper-midrange dip, but the graph uses the usual 1KHz reference.
 
 
BTW, all you have to do is browse a few headphone frequency response graphs to dispel the notion that any headphones are "flat".
 
 
post edited by bitflipper - 2016/09/22 11:35:28


All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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smallstonefan
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Re: I need a headphone recommendation 2016/09/22 10:39:45 (permalink)
Wow that curve you have is nothing like I experienced. The curve provided by Sonarworks seems much more accurate. Certainly the correction sounds pretty flat to me.
 
 

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bitflipper
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Re: I need a headphone recommendation 2016/09/22 11:26:36 (permalink)
Wow, indeed. That shows a nearly 12dB spike at 9.5 KHz. Yeh, if that's accurate then I'd definitely say it qualifies as "hyped".
 
The differences between the two measurements can be chalked up to variances between tested headphones and smoothing. Smoothing refers to the number of FFT bins, or width of frequency bands reported. A graph with no smoothing is almost useless because it shows too much detail, much of it irrelevant. At the other extreme, too much smoothing hides imperfections, a common practice among marketers to make their products look better than they really are.
 
Just one of the reasons frequency-response charts are to be taken with a sodium chloride crystal, and best used to reveal general observations rather than as the sole determiner of quality.


All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

My Stuff
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smallstonefan
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Re: I need a headphone recommendation 2016/09/22 11:30:56 (permalink)
I agree with you Bit - and I appreciate you posting that graph and asking me to do so - very interesting stuff. I really like these headphones so far - especially compared to the DT770. 
 
Are you a believer in breaking them in? Should I run audio through them for hours like I did with my Adams and Auratone?
 
PS: If you really enjoy the sound of hi hats, then the DT990s without correction will make you happy! :)
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bitflipper
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Re: I need a headphone recommendation 2016/09/22 17:17:10 (permalink)
No, I do not believe in headphone/speaker break-in.
 
There is no technical reason why it would ever be necessary, at least not with any quality speakers. There are some reasonable theories that say a speaker becomes more pliant after being exercised, but the time needed for that is about 10 seconds. Quality speakers will get that at the factory. 
 
I do, however, strongly believe that we subjectively grow to like the sound of headphones or speakers the more we listen to them. That could be the origin of this persistent myth.
 
Here are a few relevant links, if you're interested in learning more about this.
 
Speaker burn-in:
http://www.audioholics.com/education/loudspeaker-basics/speaker-break-in-fact-or-fiction
http://www.vikash.info/audio/audax/
Headphone burn-in
http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/evidence-headphone-break
http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2013/11/tnhyui-earphone-burn-in/
 
 


All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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#30
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