offnote
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I need the quick recipe for a hit
anybody knows a good and quick recipe for a tune that will sell in millions copies?
I'd use some extra cash... How you master a hit, I'd think differently then e.g. a regular song, right?
I already know a hit must be melodic and simple and has trivial lyrics, what else?
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BenMMusTech
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Re:I need the quick recipe for a hit
2011/12/23 16:12:18
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offnote
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Re:I need the quick recipe for a hit
2011/12/23 16:39:34
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ben, go back to coffee house, there is your place. In this forum we have serious discussion.
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doncolga
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Re:I need the quick recipe for a hit
2011/12/23 17:45:12
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Do you know any rappers or country artists...feature them in it somewhere...that seems to be part of the forumla. 
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Rain
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Re:I need the quick recipe for a hit
2011/12/23 17:45:39
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It's funny isn't it?
Listening to the radio or the music you hear everywhere, it all seems to stick to a formula and it's all so darn obvious - most of the time I end up thinking I'd be ashamed to put out something like that, that I'd never actually spend time on such a predictable series of chords and lame hook...
The latest hit I hear everywhere over here in Spain - and I have no idea who it is - is a total Lady Gaga rip off - that simplistic big beat from Bad Romance's chorus, the same type of synth the same build up... And people seem to love it. I'd never dare doing something so obviously "inspired" by someone else, even less if it was a hit, and even less if it was a hit from last year or the year before.
I guess it needs to remind people of something else. You may want to go for a cover or simply sample/steal the hook of a hit from the 80's or 90's.
Add one weird sample - anything short will do - and repeat it throughout the song because that's how it works and that's how you make it fit. Blues/jazz musicians have known forever that a mistake is no longer a mistake when you repeat it. It becomes a hook.
Another consideration - make music for teenage girls and/or the gay community* and keep them in mind at all time - they are the one dancing and buying music. Or then, go hip hop.
And that's what's funny - we all KNOW that, but we don't do it. Or don't care to do it. In fact, the song of mine which gathered the most attention was one of those things I did for fun, and which stuck to that formula in a twisted way.
* I don't mean that to be derogatory.
TCB - Tea, Cats, Books...
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Rus W
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Re:I need the quick recipe for a hit
2011/12/23 18:40:48
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^LOL @ Rain, but that's so true.
You know, that's the thing:
Everybody talks about trying to "stand out," when the more you actually try, you end up fitting in!
Maybe if everyone did something to fit in, he or she might actually stand out! However, one will never get away from comparisons.
AAMOF, I asked for a honest critique of Blossoms (to which I'm taking to heart), but what really stung was the comparison to the original as if I was trying to "show it up!" (Like I'm gonna "compete" with Tchaik?! Really?!) I clearly am not. I wouldn't have even attempted if I purposefully wanted to emulate the original. (You were in on that discussion with Ben, weren't you?)
But yeah, that stuff works if you wanna be popular; yet, the quicker the rise to popularity, the faster and harder is the fall from grace!
I'd like for that track to be a hit, too - being seen as its own piece - despite what I did take (I always give credit, btw) and knowing the comparison that will be drawn.
Sure, the popular music of today in general isn't all that great; however, there's no time to think, only act. Most agree that thinking about what to write impedes the creative process and given the songs out there now, they aren't "thought-provoking" lyrically/musically (subjective of course) nor do they need to be.
Again, the person made a critique which I agreed with and upon hearing a couple of songs on the radio coming home, I got an idea of how to fix it.
iBM (Color of Music) MCS (Digital Orchestration) "The Amateur works until he (or she) gets it right. The professional works until he (or she) can't get it wrong." - Julie Andrews
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doncolga
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Re:I need the quick recipe for a hit
2011/12/23 19:15:20
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Critiques are really something...to me the person doing one really needs to know the producers intent for the song, or else the critique is not what it should be. I'm also frustrated by critiques that use what's currently popular in a given genre as a reference as to what's "good" or "proper".
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Rus W
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Re:I need the quick recipe for a hit
2011/12/23 20:06:22
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^ Well, we all know what the definition of a critic is, but yes, you're right. And I asked for feedback which didn't matter to me if it was positive or negative; however, that is I believe the biggest mistake made regarding critiques (which I am also guilty of doing) As we all see though that is the downside though. I realize that lots of things are "taken" or are seen that way, but that's because the art of originality is lost since everything will look and sound like everything else - no matter how different one tries to make it - whether vastly or subtle. Blossoms is vastly different than Waltz; however, I can see where many won't like it and I'm okay with that. However, I never set out to compete with it. (Everything's a competition nowadays, you know?) Yet, even the not-so-positive critiques are welcome - provided they're constructive. While you're correct about knowing the artist/composer/producer's intent - even if it is known, that not-so-nice stroke can still be painted - KWIM?
post edited by Rus W - 2011/12/23 20:16:03
iBM (Color of Music) MCS (Digital Orchestration) "The Amateur works until he (or she) gets it right. The professional works until he (or she) can't get it wrong." - Julie Andrews
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offnote
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Re:I need the quick recipe for a hit
2011/12/23 20:09:57
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Rain
The latest hit I hear everywhere over here in Spain - and I have no idea who it is - is a total Lady Gaga rip off - that simplistic big beat from Bad Romance's chorus, the same type of synth the same build up... And people seem to love it. I'd never dare doing something so obviously "inspired" by someone else, even less if it was a hit, and even less if it was a hit from last year or the year before.
but why we judge down immediately something popular and nice to listen to, something that we can actually hum later on during shaving? Music complication for complication sake is just stupid I believe, take a Mozart, Beethoven or Bach for instance. They never forget about the fundamental property of good song - a melody...
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Rus W
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Re:I need the quick recipe for a hit
2011/12/23 20:41:05
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offnote
Rain
The latest hit I hear everywhere over here in Spain - and I have no idea who it is - is a total Lady Gaga rip off - that simplistic big beat from Bad Romance's chorus, the same type of synth the same build up... And people seem to love it. I'd never dare doing something so obviously "inspired" by someone else, even less if it was a hit, and even less if it was a hit from last year or the year before.
but why we judge down immediately something popular and nice to listen to, something that we can actually hum later on during shaving?
Music complication for complication sake is just stupid I believe, take a Mozart, Beethoven or Bach for instance. They never forget about the fundamental property of good song - a melody...
Weren't you trying to "de-bunk" that "music theory is a necessity" thread? j/k Well, yes, you're right; however, you also know that the definition of music has changed as you don't need a melody anymore. If so, such "non-melodic" genres wouldn't be so widely accepted. This is before it started to re-emerge itself in such genres in the form of Auto-Tune. Now, given what Auto-Tune is, many are taking it to literal which is understandable; however, maybe that is the intent. Don't get me wrong, I do think it is used as a crutch way too much; however, depending on its intended use (other than the literal sense), it's okay to use it. However, we have melodies in rap/hiphop tunes (not the feature artist who sings); yet, this now a bad thing? Given what the definition used to be, these genres clearly fit the mold. So, yeah, having a melody is of great importance, but it isn't "necessary." I'm not sure why the comparisons happen, but I guess the best thing to do is to take them as a compliment - even if they are meant as such.
iBM (Color of Music) MCS (Digital Orchestration) "The Amateur works until he (or she) gets it right. The professional works until he (or she) can't get it wrong." - Julie Andrews
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offnote
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Re:I need the quick recipe for a hit
2011/12/23 21:17:31
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Rus W
Weren't you trying to "de-bunk" that "music theory is a necessity" thread? j/k
not at all. I would like to know rules to follow to write a popular song. They are pro guys I know that celebrities come to and ask them to write a hit. They are so called hitmen...
post edited by offnote - 2011/12/23 21:18:38
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BenMMusTech
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Re:I need the quick recipe for a hit
2011/12/23 21:53:02
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offnote
Rus W
Weren't you trying to "de-bunk" that "music theory is a necessity" thread? j/k
not at all. I would like to know rules to follow to write a popular song. They are pro guys I know that celebrities come to and
ask them to write a hit. They are so called hitmen...
This is all just crap(offgoats topic), that article I posted a link to suggests how to have a hit these day's and Rain is right it's all about formula (I need to stop being a knob and just write a song to a formula or a target audience). So you want a hit follow these two peices of advice and there is your hit. Your wrong about Mozart, Mozart's music is very complex and very demanding, where as Beethoven and Bach understood (ok generalizing) simplicity was the key. The 4th movement of the 9th is some of the most deceptively simple music ever written but it is perhaps the greatest peice ever writen. It's childs music but it is the most known peice perhaps ever written and I believe all popular music is a decsendent of that simple riff.
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Danny Danzi
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Re:I need the quick recipe for a hit
2011/12/23 21:58:13
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Rus W
offnote
Rain
The latest hit I hear everywhere over here in Spain - and I have no idea who it is - is a total Lady Gaga rip off - that simplistic big beat from Bad Romance's chorus, the same type of synth the same build up... And people seem to love it. I'd never dare doing something so obviously "inspired" by someone else, even less if it was a hit, and even less if it was a hit from last year or the year before.
but why we judge down immediately something popular and nice to listen to, something that we can actually hum later on during shaving?
Music complication for complication sake is just stupid I believe, take a Mozart, Beethoven or Bach for instance. They never forget about the fundamental property of good song - a melody...
Well, yes, you're right; however, you also know that the definition of music has changed as you don't need a melody anymore. If so, such "non-melodic" genres wouldn't be so widely accepted. This is before it started to re-emerge itself in such genres in the form of Auto-Tune.
However, we have melodies in rap/hiphop tunes (not the feature artist who sings); yet, this now a bad thing? Given what the definition used to be, these genres clearly fit the mold.
So, yeah, having a melody is of great importance, but it isn't "necessary."
I dunno Rus, you kinda lost me with the statements I've quoted there. We're talking "hits" here, not personal preferences or "accepting good songs because we're musicians" know what I mean? I can't recall anything popular that didn't have a melody or some sort of infectious hook. We can't really involve rap in the discussion and here's why. The people that buy that style, are die hards that accept social changes as well as artistic purities and imperfections. Sometimes it's a style that knocks people over...sometimes it's an attitude...sometimes it's an image or how the artist delivers the tune. To me, this is what I love about rap and the people that support it. They don't go with trends...they go with what they like and most of the folks that like this style of music, like it for the different flavors it comes in. People wonder why it's so popular...it's simple...those buying it are waiting in line at the stores before they open when a new release is scheduled because they love it and support it. Same with country music and pop. The other styles of music...such as rock for example, has a crowd that sits home on their computers file sharing while smoking dope and playing Xbox 360. Quite a few rap lovers do the dope smoking Xbox 360 thing too...but they're always in line waiting for that store to open up when DMX or Snoop have something coming out...and for that, I praise them. You don't get a chance to sport bling bling and buy Bugatti's if you ain't making money. LOL! As for the popular thing and hits....it's a "time and place" thing. If we wrote a song that was bigger than Stairway To Heaven right now...it would tank. Why? Simple...classic rockers are not buying new music today like they once were and have moved on to taking care of family matters, working harder in this economy, sickness, different priorities, not going to concerts like they once did...not buying the new classic rock album each time it comes out....and...there aint many classic rock albums coming out. When they do come out, they don't get the push they once had. Each genre of music that has had it's time, dies because the people that support it drop off. To write a hit today, it needs to be in the context of the times as well as the people who ARE buying music right now. Country music is popular because it's a genre that is accepted by such a wide array of people. The same with rap and hip-hop. Kids, adults...everyone seems to like both styles. The cool thing about country and why it sells...adults have money...they buy it and support it. The kids as you know, are file sharing on the net. However, because it's not just one group of people supporting it...there's an offset of people stealing and people buying. With rock...more steal than they buy. So to come up with a hit, you write it for the times as well as who is buying. AND...once you write this hit, who do you take it to? You need connections...huge ones or you create a video and try to go viral....which is actually a cool possibility. It's really an awesome thing to think about. Any one of us could post a video that might appeal to the masses which in turn could get us the connections we need to have a career in music. Remember that tune Friday right? Ok...we've already discussed the good and the bad about the song. Truth be told...more good than bad if you look at the big picture. Miss Black got a ton of opportunities from that vid whether she can sing or not. The people that have done covers of it from comedy to death metal to guitar instrumentals is just insane. That to me, is success for a writer IF you happen to be that writer. The one thing with hits is...again I say, it depends on the time and place. We can't really involve artistic technicality in a hit these days. If we were back in the late 60's and 70's...yeah, totally different element. But today...it's about hitting with a hook, a good image or a weird image...making people bob their heads or take them on a journey...and get out of the tune in under 4 minutes. Whether you sing great, use auto-tune or have real players or synths...the times and who is buying music is where you need to be and it should be what you at least base your starting points on what to write. Most times, if we try to write a hit "for the times", by the time we write it, the times have changed. The best bet is to take elements "from the times" and just write and have fun without trying to redefine the face of music. Most times, groundbreaking material happens on its own without being forced. The simple things matter...however, it's important to deliver them in a language the buying public you target can relate to. The other side of the coin is actually being able to write an infectious hook. Many claim they can do it easily...especially those who favor more technical sides of music. Yet, none of them ever do it. "I'd not want to write like that...it's too simple" etc. I hear that excuse all the time from people. "Keep flying your desk at your day job then" is what I tell them. Anyone that can make millions of dollars writing music for the masses that says "nah I'll pass" is either already wealthy, really and truly doesn't have the deisre and are being honest...are they are totally full of crap. I'll accept answer 1 and 3 from just about anyone that I have ever had a dispute with on the subject. If hooks were easy and the money was for the taking....we'd all be millionaires...and those that feel they can do it that choose not to...do it anyway and donate your millions to charity or those less fortunate than yourself. There's a challenge for them. :) -Danny
My Site Fractal Audio Endorsed Artist & Beta Tester
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spacealf
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Re:I need the quick recipe for a hit
2011/12/23 22:21:05
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It's who they want to market. The doobie brothers came out with a new album end of 2010 (september). Didn't even know it. The list at youtube of the top #100 there seems to be a little weird. But again, it is what the record companies and who they want to market and advertise. (and then Ben's article listed makes sense - people just follow whomever leads, and that has always been the marketing and advertising part of these companies. The only other way is to be well known, and that does not guarantee that a lot of people will follow. Plus the older one gets, the more they do not participate as they once did, or music tastes change, like mine did. Well, there are many musicians and some quite good, but who has time to review them all. But somewhere along the way, some people do get paid to come up with current trends and what they think will be the future trend and then there is the other part - even if it is not all that good - like rap, because it is different, and they have their own followers somewhat first. But even back in the '60's some musicians never did all that good. Frank Zappa was better, but Captain Beefheart and the Magic Band?? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSeSQI16ZE0 The official, award winning video from 1982 directed by Daniel Perle. Not really! The Beatles - better songs, the Rolling Stones (I guess) also, and others and some not so much in the limelight!
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Rus W
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Re:I need the quick recipe for a hit
2011/12/23 22:48:13
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offnote
Rus W
Weren't you trying to "de-bunk" that "music theory is a necessity" thread? j/k
not at all. I would like to know rules to follow to write a popular song. They are pro guys I know that celebrities come to and
ask them to write a hit. They are so called hitmen...
I see, but that was a joke to point out how valid your point was as nowadays, it seems like the "classical" techniques aren't needed and they stretch much further than just classical music. Popular songs today are pretty much about progressions (melodic and harmonic). If both are cohesive and complement each other well ... The most basic is the I-IV-V or IV-V-I. From here, you get into coloring them (this usually happens with much more complicated chords). The easiest thing to do is to take phrase and repeat it but don't dwell on it. This is whether musically or song structure when it comes to instrumentation. Yet, that has more to do with if a song is instrumental as the ear becomes tired. Hip-Hop sees this; however, there are lyrics on top to have one not focus on the music. The theory is behind all of this, but more you practice, the more likely you'll wanna really start coloring your music. The above was one of the critiques I got and am trying to fix it - and that critique has made my particular track - all the better! Back to progressions though. Often times, they are underneath the melody, so when forming the harmony, it's the middle notes that you're concerned with in most cases. (third, fifth, seventh as your root and top notes are already covered - bass note, melody note). The thing is with harmony: it's really just another layer of melody. So, a basic triad is just three melody notes while a progression is a series of such that are now lines. What notes fit on those lines (consonance and dissonance) will take some ear training (if you forego the technical route), but that's pretty much the idea for harmony - not that harmony's needed to write a hit either - nor is rhythm, but I think you get it. TBH, there are no "rules" as something only becomes popular if people like it As I said though, it could fall pretty darn fast, too! Just some pointers. (Hope the theory didn't turn you away)
iBM (Color of Music) MCS (Digital Orchestration) "The Amateur works until he (or she) gets it right. The professional works until he (or she) can't get it wrong." - Julie Andrews
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Rus W
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Re:I need the quick recipe for a hit
2011/12/23 23:09:11
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Danny Danzi
Rus W
offnote
Rain
The latest hit I hear everywhere over here in Spain - and I have no idea who it is - is a total Lady Gaga rip off - that simplistic big beat from Bad Romance's chorus, the same type of synth the same build up... And people seem to love it. I'd never dare doing something so obviously "inspired" by someone else, even less if it was a hit, and even less if it was a hit from last year or the year before.
but why we judge down immediately something popular and nice to listen to, something that we can actually hum later on during shaving?
Music complication for complication sake is just stupid I believe, take a Mozart, Beethoven or Bach for instance. They never forget about the fundamental property of good song - a melody...
Well, yes, you're right; however, you also know that the definition of music has changed as you don't need a melody anymore. If so, such "non-melodic" genres wouldn't be so widely accepted. This is before it started to re-emerge itself in such genres in the form of Auto-Tune.
However, we have melodies in rap/hiphop tunes (not the feature artist who sings); yet, this now a bad thing? Given what the definition used to be, these genres clearly fit the mold.
So, yeah, having a melody is of great importance, but it isn't "necessary."
I dunno Rus, you kinda lost me with the statements I've quoted there. We're talking "hits" here, not personal preferences or "accepting good songs because we're musicians" know what I mean? I can't recall anything popular that didn't have a melody or some sort of infectious hook.
We can't really involve rap in the discussion and here's why. The people that buy that style, are die hards that accept social changes as well as artistic purities and imperfections. Sometimes it's a style that knocks people over...sometimes it's an attitude...sometimes it's an image or how the artist delivers the tune. To me, this is what I love about rap and the people that support it. They don't go with trends...they go with what they like and most of the folks that like this style of music, like it for the different flavors it comes in. People wonder why it's so popular...it's simple...those buying it are waiting in line at the stores before they open when a new release is scheduled because they love it and support it. Same with country music and pop. The other styles of music...such as rock for example, has a crowd that sits home on their computers file sharing while smoking dope and playing Xbox 360. Quite a few rap lovers do the dope smoking Xbox 360 thing too...but they're always in line waiting for that store to open up when DMX or Snoop have something coming out...and for that, I praise them. You don't get a chance to sport bling bling and buy Bugatti's if you ain't making money. LOL!
As for the popular thing and hits....it's a "time and place" thing. If we wrote a song that was bigger than Stairway To Heaven right now...it would tank. Why? Simple...classic rockers are not buying new music today like they once were and have moved on to taking care of family matters, working harder in this economy, sickness, different priorities, not going to concerts like they once did...not buying the new classic rock album each time it comes out....and...there aint many classic rock albums coming out. When they do come out, they don't get the push they once had.
Each genre of music that has had it's time, dies because the people that support it drop off. To write a hit today, it needs to be in the context of the times as well as the people who ARE buying music right now. Country music is popular because it's a genre that is accepted by such a wide array of people. The same with rap and hip-hop. Kids, adults...everyone seems to like both styles. The cool thing about country and why it sells...adults have money...they buy it and support it. The kids as you know, are file sharing on the net. However, because it's not just one group of people supporting it...there's an offset of people stealing and people buying. With rock...more steal than they buy. So to come up with a hit, you write it for the times as well as who is buying.
AND...once you write this hit, who do you take it to? You need connections...huge ones or you create a video and try to go viral....which is actually a cool possibility. It's really an awesome thing to think about. Any one of us could post a video that might appeal to the masses which in turn could get us the connections we need to have a career in music. Remember that tune Friday right? Ok...we've already discussed the good and the bad about the song. Truth be told...more good than bad if you look at the big picture. Miss Black got a ton of opportunities from that vid whether she can sing or not. The people that have done covers of it from comedy to death metal to guitar instrumentals is just insane. That to me, is success for a writer IF you happen to be that writer.
The one thing with hits is...again I say, it depends on the time and place. We can't really involve artistic technicality in a hit these days. If we were back in the late 60's and 70's...yeah, totally different element. But today...it's about hitting with a hook, a good image or a weird image...making people bob their heads or take them on a journey...and get out of the tune in under 4 minutes. Whether you sing great, use auto-tune or have real players or synths...the times and who is buying music is where you need to be and it should be what you at least base your starting points on what to write. Most times, if we try to write a hit "for the times", by the time we write it, the times have changed. The best bet is to take elements "from the times" and just write and have fun without trying to redefine the face of music. Most times, groundbreaking material happens on its own without being forced. The simple things matter...however, it's important to deliver them in a language the buying public you target can relate to.
The other side of the coin is actually being able to write an infectious hook. Many claim they can do it easily...especially those who favor more technical sides of music. Yet, none of them ever do it. "I'd not want to write like that...it's too simple" etc. I hear that excuse all the time from people. "Keep flying your desk at your day job then" is what I tell them. Anyone that can make millions of dollars writing music for the masses that says "nah I'll pass" is either already wealthy, really and truly doesn't have the deisre and are being honest...are they are totally full of crap. I'll accept answer 1 and 3 from just about anyone that I have ever had a dispute with on the subject. If hooks were easy and the money was for the taking....we'd all be millionaires...and those that feel they can do it that choose not to...do it anyway and donate your millions to charity or those less fortunate than yourself. There's a challenge for them. :)
-Danny
That is true, but that's what I meant when you said "hook" because they don't necessarily involve melodic lines - not in the "traditional" sense. And TMidi jokingly said that he didn't have time for solos (which are melodic) Give him an infectious hook any day! I also meant that when offnote mentioned the three most famous composers when he said they didn't forget the most fundamental element in a song - the melody - which I then said given today's popular music is not needed; I didn't say it doesn't have it. I mentioned rap/hiphop because before it included featured singers (Jay-Z w/ Alicia Keys or Beyonce) Auto-Tune (Cher, Madonna then, T-Pain, K West, Drake; Ke$ha, Lady Gaga, etc.) and before the definition of music changed (melody/harmony/rhythm to sound/time) Two different things there. I definitely understand the social dynamic of songs being popular - and perhaps I did confuse that with personal preferences, receptiveness and acceptance; however, you see how all of this goes hand-in-hand, no? It doesn't change the general idea that a melody isn't necessary. Again, that isn't saying that it shouldn't exist within a song - no matter what the genre is. Is that where I confused you? If so, my apologies. I hope I cleared things up. (Btw, were you in that implied melody thread as well as that happens very often, too)
iBM (Color of Music) MCS (Digital Orchestration) "The Amateur works until he (or she) gets it right. The professional works until he (or she) can't get it wrong." - Julie Andrews
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Danny Danzi
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Re:I need the quick recipe for a hit
2011/12/23 23:20:26
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Yep, totally with ya now Rus, thanks for the response. :) Hmm not sure I was in that melody thread....but yeah, same stuff usually happens in those as well. :) No need to apologize. Also, though I typed a novel as I always do...the majority of it was said in general and not directed at you or anyone in particular. :) Just my take on the hit recipe as well as a few other tidbits of info. :)
-Danny
My Site Fractal Audio Endorsed Artist & Beta Tester
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Rus W
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Re:I need the quick recipe for a hit
2011/12/23 23:37:15
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^ I didn't see that way. I must say I do enjoy threads such as these!
Heh, you write novels? I should post more often! haha!
iBM (Color of Music) MCS (Digital Orchestration) "The Amateur works until he (or she) gets it right. The professional works until he (or she) can't get it wrong." - Julie Andrews
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Danny Danzi
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Re:I need the quick recipe for a hit
2011/12/23 23:52:59
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Nah, don't get into the novel thing. You and a few others have a talent for explaining things in a single paragraph that I need to write 12 paragraphs for. LOL! Then again, we can't hide our passion. Those that want to read a novel will read it...those that don't, simply won't. I post for those that may find what I say helpful as well as attempting to add a bit of personality into my posts. Some enjoy that, some don't. It's all about passion while attempting to say things as clearly as possible leaving no stone unturned. That's pretty much what you'd get from my long post crap. LOL! :)
-Danny
My Site Fractal Audio Endorsed Artist & Beta Tester
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Rus W
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Re:I need the quick recipe for a hit
2011/12/24 01:48:51
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^ Yeah, I get what you mean and from what I've been reading from you, I couldn't begin to comprehend, let alone spell it. (All that production stuff, but that isn't my strong suit! I try, but, that auditory second opinion, you know?)
But alas, whatever the area, there are very passionate people here and I'm glad to be around them.
iBM (Color of Music) MCS (Digital Orchestration) "The Amateur works until he (or she) gets it right. The professional works until he (or she) can't get it wrong." - Julie Andrews
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offnote
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Re:I need the quick recipe for a hit
2011/12/24 09:03:18
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I think besides other obvious musical things knowing of psychology and current trends in public perception
as well as patterns from the history is essential to be able to produce a hit.
Another important consideration - what's the market is it for? Hit in US won't translate into hit in Kazakhstan, right?
and vice-versa.
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Rus W
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Re:I need the quick recipe for a hit
2011/12/24 13:31:16
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^ Who you market to is huge, but there's a deceptiveness about that because of the gross generalizations:
Then again, I think Rain mentioned about a song in Spain that is oddly popular because it's clearly a Lady Gaga rip-off; yet, she's huge over here, too - and she's been accused of ripping off, too.
(Somewhat OT)
It's a different medium, but I just read about the BO take for Final Destination 5. I would say it did well here; however, that movie (and entire series for that matter) has done exceedingly well overseas. This success as green-lit a 6th and 7th film.
It has seen its own share of negative criticism - from film to film, but most disregard 3 and 4 (most definitely 4) and say that 5 definitely made up for it - especially since it went back to what made the first film a huge success. Have you seen FD5? It pretty good! (I'm getting it when it's released)
Another major criticism it (the series) has faced is who it's marketed, too. The generalization is: "Teens and young adults" (who's cast has alot to do with this), but that sounds like a "generational" thing and then based on what is emphasized (gratuitous deaths) which after 2-4 "cartoonish" (which I don't disagree with). The deaths in 5 were graphic, but not cartoonish; yet, V/SFX, set pieces, makeup. lighting, palette, etc - all of that went into making 5 as dark and creepy as the first.
Btw, it makes its dough from the opening disasters! 5's was pretty f'n-tastic!
The real issue when it comes to popularity or decline - you hit the nail on the head:
Trends and fads: What's hot today, isn't tomorrow. Again, you wanna keep things fresh and continually evolve; however, the audience can change its mind, much faster than you can change keys/chords in a song! This is a huge problem!
Don't get me wrong, audiences of any and every medium are smarter today, than they were yesterday (years ago); however, to me, it seems like arrogance now and has been for awhile. (Don't attempt to twist this or that; you'll never live up to it untouched. Movie Remakes, Song Arrangements, Artist Homages, etc)
That's perhaps certain genres of music/film don't do well here. Essentially, we've seen/heard it all, so what is there left? (I'm just talking about the trending stuff)
I don't mean to make this sound like it'll be the end of the world if your song isn't a hit or is time as one is short-lived, I was only explaining why and used another medium as a example since it's the same there as well.
iBM (Color of Music) MCS (Digital Orchestration) "The Amateur works until he (or she) gets it right. The professional works until he (or she) can't get it wrong." - Julie Andrews
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Guitarhacker
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Re:I need the quick recipe for a hit
2011/12/24 14:02:58
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The one most important thing is being able to write a marketable hit that appeals to the masses. Many hit songs are written.... or songs that could be hits. They never get heard because the writer has no connections in the biz to get their song into consideration for a particular artist's next CD project.
No matter the genre, I believe it's ALL about the connections you have or don't have that determines to a large extent the success you as a writer will experience.
There is definitely a certain skill set to writing hits. It takes time, and practice to get that skill set honed to the point where your music is ready.
In country music, for example, if Lady A is preparing to record a new CD, there are at best 12 positions available for new songs on that CD. Those spots are highly sought after. Lady A' producers, managers and other staff will likely review several thousand songs, all of which have been pre-screened to weed out the fillers. Factor in that the band and label writers will get first shot and top consideration for the 12 slots. Next in line come the existing and previous hits writers and the big name writers..... then everyone else and it's very much like an American Idol competition with eliminations of songs from several thousand to several hundred finalists and then down to maybe 24 in the final group before the 12 are chosen. The 12 will likely be songs that follow a certain "formula" that has worked in the past.
My website & music: www.herbhartley.com MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface BMI/NSAI "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer "
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Rus W
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Re:I need the quick recipe for a hit
2011/12/24 15:25:10
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^ And this is where you'll probably get re-releases with some of those songs that weren't included.
You're right about things following a formula, but even that will wear on ears and perception if overused; however, change is looked down upon to.
Lady A went from Sweetheart to Sourpuss. She can't stay a sweetheart forever though - nor should she.
Then, there the issue of an album sounding the same across tracks (I'm talking in general - not specifically production technique). However, for me, I'd rather that, then such be all over the place. (Pop here, Techno there, Dance, Trance, Club, House in between all of this - tightly congested!)
The biggest issue when writing is structure; however, structure still needs to be obtain after everything has been written.
iBM (Color of Music) MCS (Digital Orchestration) "The Amateur works until he (or she) gets it right. The professional works until he (or she) can't get it wrong." - Julie Andrews
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Guitarhacker
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Re:I need the quick recipe for a hit
2011/12/25 11:54:48
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For an interesting study... if you have the spare time.... take a specific genre: oh...lets say country....
Look at the charts for the previous year.
Now, figure out the song structure of ALL the #1 songs. Was it ABABCB or AABAB... you get the picture...? See how may tunes follow which basic structures.
Now determine in the 52 weeks how many songs made it to #1.... which ones stayed at #1 for more than 1 week....
Were they fast, medium or slow tempo songs.
Male or female, or duets.
What keys they are in. And did they modulate or stay in the same key all the way through.
First time #1 artists or repeat artists.
At this point you start to get an idea of what it takes to make a song that is well received by the masses.
Interesting note: In a songwriting class in LA a few years back the moderator of the class, Jason Blume, had done this and pointed out a few things about the #1 songs from the previous year. They ( the industry folks) always seem to be saying, don't write slow ballads, they don't sell. Well in that previous year, about 30% of the #1 songs were ballads (1 in 3) and followed the same (almost exact) song structure. there was a total of 12 different song structures in the #1 songs, and a total of 26 songs were in the #1 slot in the calendar year. Many of them stayed #1 for 2 or more weeks. I do not recall the female/male mix ratio of the artists but there were more males than females in the #1 position on the charts.
working this exercise shows you what is selling and allows you to writing into that song "formula" with your own music and style.
My website & music: www.herbhartley.com MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface BMI/NSAI "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer "
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Philip
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Re:I need the quick recipe for a hit
2011/12/25 15:29:10
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Great thread and ideas on pop. A kid told me one word:
"Accessibility"
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Rain
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Re:I need the quick recipe for a hit
2011/12/26 07:29:44
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offnote
Another important consideration - what's the market is it for? Hit in US won't translate into hit in Kazakhstan, right?
and vice-versa.
Well, a hit in the US has much more chances of being a hit in the rest of the world. I can tell you that, for example, a hit in French Canada (or in Quebec) may get you some notoriety, but it won't necessarily result in you being able to buy the new house you want to buy.
TCB - Tea, Cats, Books...
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