jbow
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I think I am about fed up with MS and Windows.
I spent most of the day trying to get one of my email accounts to work again after the anniversary update. I managed to get it non working on both my computer and my phone before finally getting it fixed. I had to go to imap. As soon as that was done I got a popup telling me "We have turned on Windows Defender because your (AV) does not work with this version of W-10) or something like that... finally I got the option to update my AV. This is on my laptop. I never thought I would be considering a MacBook but I seriously am. Now if I can figure out a way to update Sonar and VSTs on my DAW without MS downloading something when I do and installing it when I reboot. I wish I had stayed with W-8.1 right now. I like things to work. I don't need changes that I don't understand, that take me a half day to fix because MS decided to change something. I never had these problems with W-7 or with 8.1. I am NOT happy. Maybe once Cakewalk gets Sonar for Mac running up to speed I'll leave ALL MS behind. I don't need this crap. Sorry for the rant. I swear, I feel like I'm trembling. I'm not but I have that feeling. Stress I guess. Count me out as soon as I can get out. Since my wife updated her office computers to W-10 she has problems with different programs and she is completely a push the buttons/turn the knobs girl. She just gets frustrated... then I hear all about it. My business software would not run for her today. I have no idea if MS is rebooting her computers during the night and messing with her offsite backup and I'm not asking her... Is it just me? I am not an ex-programmer. I am an end user who learned a lot about removing malware when I had XP, lol. Not a problem anymore. I have not had to fix things this much since XP. W-10 seems better in some ways but when it isn't better I feel like I'm back on XP... Googling, trying to figure out how to make things work again.  My iPhone just works. Everything on it works unless I mess something up, like today with Hotmail because of MS. Maybe a MacBook will just work. .. but seriously, is it just me or is MS causing problems for you? !!!!!!! Julien
Sonar Platinum Studiocat Pro 16G RAM (some bells and whistles) HP Pavilion dm4 1165-dx (i5)-8G RAM Octa-Capture KRK Rokit-8s MIDI keyboards... Control Pad mics. I HATE THIS CMPUTER KEYBARD!
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bapu
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Re: I think I am about fed up with MS and Windows.
2016/08/23 16:01:29
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MS and Windows (3.1 through 10, minus Vista) has always just worked for me. Even when I ran my own Exchange and IIS web servers at home.
iDon't iXxxx anything. My Samsung Galaxy 5 and now 6 just work for me too.
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Jim Roseberry
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Re: I think I am about fed up with MS and Windows.
2016/08/23 16:46:35
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FWIW, Apple has issues too.
El Capitan release caused a LOT of headaches for Mac audio folks.
Some of which are still being ironed out... months later
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jbow
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Re: I think I am about fed up with MS and Windows.
2016/08/23 17:15:30
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Jim Roseberry
FWIW, Apple has issues too.
El Capitan release caused a LOT of headaches for Mac audio folks.
Some of which are still being ironed out... months later
Yes, someone else told me that. I was really aggravated. I'm calmed down a little now. I guess I'll think it over. My first thought was that someone had taken over my Hotmail account and I ended up adding another HM with W-Live Mail, then somehow reset my MS password. Of course then no email would work on my phone (or computer). I finally sorted it out but dang, it would be nice if MS would send out a notice about things like this. Maybe I need a new email client. I'll look to see if Thunderbird is still around. I don't want to have to use imap, rather use POP but I don't use HM for very much anyway. The older I get, the harder changes are. I guess I was an analog man for too long. To much change in my world... this is just one thing. Today's "last straw". Better now. Thanks for the info, for the reply. J
Sonar Platinum Studiocat Pro 16G RAM (some bells and whistles) HP Pavilion dm4 1165-dx (i5)-8G RAM Octa-Capture KRK Rokit-8s MIDI keyboards... Control Pad mics. I HATE THIS CMPUTER KEYBARD!
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kitekrazy1
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Re: I think I am about fed up with MS and Windows.
2016/08/23 20:49:25
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Jim Roseberry
FWIW, Apple has issues too.
El Capitan release caused a LOT of headaches for Mac audio folks.
Some of which are still being ironed out... months later
You see it quite a bit if you go to cross platform DAW forums. Biggest difference between MS and Mac: MS attempts to keep legacy devices running. Apple makes legacy devices obsolete. If I went Mac all of my M-Audio gear becomes doorstops. I'm also seeing more custom built desktop users switching to PC because of price. Also there have been reports of iPads bricked because of the latest iOS updates.
Sonar Platinum, W7 Pro 32GB Ram, Intel i7 4790, AsRock Z97 Pro 4, NVidia 750ti, AP2496 Sonar Platinum, W7 Pro, 16GB Ram, AMD FX 6300, Gigabyte GA 970 -UD3 P, nVidia 9800GT, Guitar Port, Terratec EWX 2496
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timidi
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Re: I think I am about fed up with MS and Windows.
2016/08/23 23:04:12
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I like my MacbookPro. It just works. The only nag I get is a periodic flash update.
Actually my favorite thing about Macs and why I might go full Mac (PC is currently my Daw) is the trackpad and no mouse. Swiping fader mixing views and scrolling are so much more intuitive and comfortable than the Msft alternatives.
Moving around Studio One on a Mac is like a Gazelle. Where S1 on the PC (mouse) is like a turtle.
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tlw
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Re: I think I am about fed up with MS and Windows.
2016/08/24 07:54:15
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The "bricked" iPad problem only affected a very small proportion of them and was easily sorted out. The internet rumour mill made a much bigger thing out of it than it actually was.
It has to be said that Apple's Core Audio and Core MIDI do pretty much "just work" and OS X, being Unix derived, is much less hassle to deal with than modern Windows. When you tell it not to do something it doesn't then go and switch it on again behind your back without telling you. Unlike Windows 10.
There were a few issues with El Capitan on launch, mostly caused by a few hardware manufacturers not updating their drivers despite many months of warnings and pre-release developer versions being available. The only one that affected me was MOTU who took a week to get a working USB3 MIDI interface driver out.
A lot of older hardware will work on Macs because if it's class compliant it doesn't need a manufacturer-supplied driver. As for old stuff working with Windows, I've seen a succession of M-Audio products left to wait for years for a working Win Vista, then 7, then 8 driver. Which doesn't work properly when it finally gets released. Which is why I won't buy any M-Audio products any more.
Having loaded Win10 to take a long hard look at it, I have no desire or intention to use it.
The big downside of Macs is cost, and they tend to have less brute power than a similar priced PC. On the other hand, OS X seems to make fewer demands than Windows and requires no special tweaking to use as a DAW. Mrs TLW has a work-supplied i5 laptop PC with 4GB of RAM and Windows 7. Her base-model Macbook Air (i5 4GB RAM) is far smoother and snappier.
And no Sonar for Macs. Yet. Logic's cheap and OK but frustrating in some ways, and the supplied plugins are mostly not as good as SPlat's so there's more of a need for third party plugins. At least, that's what I've found, others may disagree.
Sonar Platinum 64bit, Windows 8.1 Pro 64bit, I7 3770K Ivybridge, 16GB Ram, Gigabyte Z77-D3H m/board, ATI 7750 graphics+ 1GB RAM, 2xIntel 520 series 220GB SSDs, 1 TB Samsung F3 + 1 TB WD HDDs, Seasonic fanless 460W psu, RME Fireface UFX, Focusrite Octopre. Assorted real synths, guitars, mandolins, diatonic accordions, percussion, fx and other stuff.
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Jim Roseberry
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Re: I think I am about fed up with MS and Windows.
2016/08/24 12:16:52
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timidi
I like my MacbookPro. It just works. The only nag I get is a periodic flash update.
Actually my favorite thing about Macs and why I might go full Mac (PC is currently my Daw) is the trackpad and no mouse. Swiping fader mixing views and scrolling are so much more intuitive and comfortable than the Msft alternatives.
Moving around Studio One on a Mac is like a Gazelle. Where S1 on the PC (mouse) is like a turtle.
I'm glad you like glide-points... FWIW, I can't stand them.  You *can* get a glide-point for your PC... and use that instead of a mouse. If you like swiping for making mix changes/etc, you might want to checkout one of the nicer multi-touch monitors. That'll allow you to make multiple changes simultaneously.
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Jim Roseberry
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Re: I think I am about fed up with MS and Windows.
2016/08/24 12:24:22
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kitekrazy1
You see it quite a bit if you go to cross platform DAW forums.
Biggest difference between MS and Mac:
MS attempts to keep legacy devices running.
Apple makes legacy devices obsolete.
Agreed... PCIe slots? No phase out... just completely eliminated with the Cylinder Mac Pro. So... you have to not only replace your computer, you have to replace all peripherals. Thunderbolt peripherals aren't cheap. All project/data drives now have to be external. A 1TB Thunderbolt external drive is ~$200.
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dcumpian
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Re: I think I am about fed up with MS and Windows.
2016/08/24 13:29:51
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Jim Roseberry
timidi
I like my MacbookPro. It just works. The only nag I get is a periodic flash update.
Actually my favorite thing about Macs and why I might go full Mac (PC is currently my Daw) is the trackpad and no mouse. Swiping fader mixing views and scrolling are so much more intuitive and comfortable than the Msft alternatives.
Moving around Studio One on a Mac is like a Gazelle. Where S1 on the PC (mouse) is like a turtle.
I'm glad you like glide-points...
FWIW, I can't stand them.
You *can* get a glide-point for your PC... and use that instead of a mouse.
If you like swiping for making mix changes/etc, you might want to checkout one of the nicer multi-touch monitors.
That'll allow you to make multiple changes simultaneously.
Frankly, my best investment in better mixing was a giant trackball from Kensington. With one click, I can lock the trackball to the fader (or any other control) and ride the ball with my fingertips. Really great control that way. Dan
Mixing is all about control. My music: http://dancumpian.bandcamp.com/ or https://soundcloud.com/dcumpian Studiocat Advanced Studio DAW (Intel i5 3550 @ 3.7GHz, Z77 motherboard, 16GB Ram, lots of HDDs), Sonar Plat, Mackie 1604, PreSonus Audiobox 44VSL, ESI 4x4 Midi Interface, Ibanez Bass, Custom Fender Mexi-Strat, NI S88, Roland JV-2080 & MDB-1, Komplete, Omnisphere, Lots o' plugins.
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pwalpwal
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Re: I think I am about fed up with MS and Windows.
2016/08/24 13:38:44
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I really can't be arsed with Mac-OS , the "just work" is marketing bollocks
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Jim Roseberry
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Re: I think I am about fed up with MS and Windows.
2016/08/24 14:11:57
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tlw
It has to be said that Apple's Core Audio and Core MIDI do pretty much "just work" and OS X, being Unix derived, is much less hassle to deal with than modern Windows. When you tell it not to do something it doesn't then go and switch it on again behind your back without telling you. Unlike Windows 10.
There were a few issues with El Capitan on launch, mostly caused by a few hardware manufacturers not updating their drivers despite many months of warnings and pre-release developer versions being available. The only one that affected me was MOTU who took a week to get a working USB3 MIDI interface driver out.
A lot of older hardware will work on Macs because if it's class compliant it doesn't need a manufacturer-supplied driver. As for old stuff working with Windows, I've seen a succession of M-Audio products left to wait for years for a working Win Vista, then 7, then 8 driver. Which doesn't work properly when it finally gets released. Which is why I won't buy any M-Audio products any more.
Having loaded Win10 to take a long hard look at it, I have no desire or intention to use it.
The big downside of Macs is cost, and they tend to have less brute power than a similar priced PC. On the other hand, OS X seems to make fewer demands than Windows and requires no special tweaking to use as a DAW. Mrs TLW has a work-supplied i5 laptop PC with 4GB of RAM and Windows 7. Her base-model Macbook Air (i5 4GB RAM) is far smoother and snappier.
And no Sonar for Macs. Yet. Logic's cheap and OK but frustrating in some ways, and the supplied plugins are mostly not as good as SPlat's so there's more of a need for third party plugins. At least, that's what I've found, others may disagree.
IMO, The problem was deeper than just a couple of hardware vendors not "keeping up" with planned changes. There were a issues with many audio interfaces... as well as audio software. Apple released an El Capitan update to address some of the issues. Granted, most issues are now sorted. When installing a higher-end audio interface: I have to install a driver whether Mac or PC. Maintenance is really not a lot different either way. Apple lags behind development wise. The Mac Pro not the highest performance Mac currently available. That (ironically) is the iMac (27" model with 6700k). You take your lumps with either platform. Either platform can be very productive.
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Jim Roseberry
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Re: I think I am about fed up with MS and Windows.
2016/08/24 14:14:53
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dcumpian
Frankly, my best investment in better mixing was a giant trackball from Kensington. With one click, I can lock the trackball to the fader (or any other control) and ride the ball with my fingertips. Really great control that way.
Dan
I was going to mention trackball... For whatever reason, those absolutely murder my tendinitis. Other folks love them.
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pwalpwal
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Re: I think I am about fed up with MS and Windows.
2016/08/24 14:42:59
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i absolutely hate trackpads, it seemed to take forever to disable the bloody thing in win10
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timidi
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Re: I think I am about fed up with MS and Windows.
2016/08/24 14:55:55
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A windows/Msft trackpad is not the same as an Apple. (not even close). That said, I am noticing the stickiness in scrolling this page as my hand is kind of clammy. That's a problem sometimes. Jim, A touch screen wouldn't work for me at this point. Too much stuff in front of me. Haven't tried the track balls. A lot of folks swear by them. The Kensington in particular. I can't find one locally (so I can return it). I have dupyens contracture in my right hand so it's all kind of on a different level for me.
post edited by timidi - 2016/08/24 15:37:09
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tlw
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Re: I think I am about fed up with MS and Windows.
2016/08/24 15:16:14
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Jim Roseberry
I was going to mention trackball...
For whatever reason, those absolutely murder my tendinitis.
Other folks love them.
That would be me :-) Trackballs or, now, good trackpads don't give be RSI in my right hand and wrist, using a mouse for 15 minutes does. The long-term consequence of a job I did in the late 80s which involved a lot of data entry on green screen monitors using poor keyboards and worse mice. And no way to even tab between fields in the data forms, every cursor movement had to be done by mouse. As for Mac Pros they're a very expensive niche product and always have been. I sometimes wonder if Apple are actually still making them or just have enough stock to keep them on sale for a long time. The shift to the "dustbin" look might be stylish, but as you say it's not the most practical thing in the world. The hardware doesn't seem to have been updated for quite some time either. Nor do Apple make a stand-alone Retina screen, which is plain daft really. The only stand-alone screen they offer is relatively low resolution and ridiculously priced. A sensibly priced 15" HDMI Retina screen that matches the 15" Macbook Pro is something I'd quite like to be able to get hold for a 2 screen setup in a small space. Edited to add - One thing I would really have liked to see is a Commodore Amiga with an updated Amiga OS and modern hardware. That could have been quite something.
post edited by tlw - 2016/08/24 15:38:50
Sonar Platinum 64bit, Windows 8.1 Pro 64bit, I7 3770K Ivybridge, 16GB Ram, Gigabyte Z77-D3H m/board, ATI 7750 graphics+ 1GB RAM, 2xIntel 520 series 220GB SSDs, 1 TB Samsung F3 + 1 TB WD HDDs, Seasonic fanless 460W psu, RME Fireface UFX, Focusrite Octopre. Assorted real synths, guitars, mandolins, diatonic accordions, percussion, fx and other stuff.
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arachnaut
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Re: I think I am about fed up with MS and Windows.
2016/08/24 15:39:17
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jbow
... I'll look to see if Thunderbird is still around. I don't want to have to use imap, rather use POP but I don't use HM for very much anyway. The older I get, the harder changes are. I guess I was an analog man for too long. To much change in my world... this is just one thing. ...
I use Thunderbird and have for many years. I use it on my Yahoo account, GMail account, and my own domain account. I have never had problems with it. I like having all my email on my PC. If Yahoo dies or gets hacked and I can't get in, at least I haven't lost any email.
- Jim Hurley - SONAR Platinum - x64 - Windows 10 Pro ASUS P8P67 PRO Rev 3.0; Core i7-2600K@4.4GHz; 16 GB G.SKILL Ripjaws X; GeForce GT 740; Saffire Pro14 MixControl 3.7; Axiom 61 64-Bit audio, SR: 48kHz, ASIO 256 samples latency, Rec/Play I/O Buffers 512k, Total Round Trip Latency 13 ms, Pow-r 3 dither
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pwalpwal
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Re: I think I am about fed up with MS and Windows.
2016/08/24 15:46:02
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abacab
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Re: I think I am about fed up with MS and Windows.
2016/08/24 16:21:33
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jbow
.. but seriously, is it just me or is MS causing problems for you?
!!!!!!!
You are not alone! I have recently visited a few computer forums, and the subject of forced Windows updates is probably the hottest topic right about now (especially due to the recently released Anniversary Update for Win10). Depending on which edition of Windows 10 you are on, Home or Pro, there are a few things you can still do to prevent the forced monthly automatic download of patches and updates. I use both editions of Windows 10, and I have my shields up!!! There are two categories of updates to watch out for. The first are the monthly cumulative updates for security and performance issues. The second are the periodic Windows "feature" upgrades (Anniversary Update, etc.). For Windows Home you can:1. Use settings to make the network a "metered connection" if you are on Wi-fi only. Windows will not actually download any updates it finds, unless you specifically click on them. Not available for Ethernet connections. 2. Use the Microsoft tool "wushowhide" to check for any available updates, then "hide them". This was designed to be able to uninstall "bad" patches, then hide them from re-install, but it works for ANY patch, LOL!!! For Windows 10 Pro you can:1. Use settings to tell windows to defer the "feature updates" (by default this is like 4 months or something). 2. Use settings to tell Windows to schedule a time to reboot to install any updates that have been downloaded (me thinks this may not be so great, because you may need to reboot or shutdown for other reasons, then they gotcha!). 3. Use Local Group Policy Editor (gpedit.msc) to tweak a few settings. (a) Defer upgrades for up to 8 months, and delay updates for up to 4 weeks. (b) There is an option to configure or disable automatic updates, but not sure how long MS will allow that setting to last. 4. Use settings to make the network a "metered connection" if you are on Wi-fi only. Windows will not actually download any updates it finds, unless you specifically click on them. Not available for Ethernet connections. 5 Use the Microsoft tool "wushowhide" to check for any available updates, then "hide them". This was designed to be able to uninstall "bad" patches, then hide them from re-install, but it works for ANY patch, LOL!!! How to use "wushowhide":http://www.infoworld.com/...date-version-1607.html http://www.tenforums.com/...show-windows-10-a.html "wushowhide" download instructions:https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3073930 Bottom line, for Home users, I think a cheap Wi-fi adapter and the "metered connection" hack is probably cheaper than the $100 upgrade to Pro at the Windows store :-)
post edited by abacab - 2016/08/24 18:25:09
DAW: CbB; Sonar Platinum, and others ...
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kennywtelejazz
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Re: I think I am about fed up with MS and Windows.
2016/08/24 16:47:53
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Hey jbow , I feel for you man . I got bit pretty hard last month with a bunch of failed Win 10 updates ... Got lucky , Bob B set me on the right path ..... As far as the Mac thing goes ...that's ones a pretty polarizing topic I have never bought one brand new , so I have no comment on all that El Capitan Jazz ... The last one I bought I got off a guy who had just gotten his daughter a brand new one for college .He was just looking to offset his outlay and put a little change back in his pocket .... Maybe you may luck and find something like that...so you can test the waters .... Kenny
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DeeringAmps
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Re: I think I am about fed up with MS and Windows.
2016/08/27 08:48:49
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Win 7 just works for me.
Not deep enough into the "10" cycle yet.
"Never look a gift horse in the mouth"
"The first one's free"
Just sayin'
T
Tom Deering Tascam FW-1884 User Resources Page Firewire "Legacy" Tutorial, Service Manual, Schematic, and Service Bulletins Win10x64 StudioCat Pro Studio Coffee Lake 8086k 32gb RAM  RME UFX (Audio) Tascam FW-1884 (Control) in Win 10x64 Pro
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Cookie Jarvis
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Re: I think I am about fed up with MS and Windows.
2016/08/27 23:02:59
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Yup, Win7 Ultimate is rockin' here...it helps that I built my own machine, use a PCI interface, and try to avoid wonky software :)
Bill
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Vastman
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Re: I think I am about fed up with MS and Windows.
2016/08/28 04:32:58
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The Apple landscape is NO panacea... most of the pros I know using Apple are pissed as hell these days with the dumbing down of programs to "consumer" level and updates which totally F up their work... Just the other day my housemate was furious/screaming that an update totally wrecked all the programming he'd done to create pad/phone control of many templates worth of work... Another studio owner had his hard drives scoured and stripped of original music, and it took weeks to get it back, although it is totally compressed and not the original. He's livid....furthermore, the macs/laps haven't been updated to any real degree in years... Win10/intel are working just fine here. The latest touch screen convertible laptop from asus that I'm considering is hugely powerful, extremely reasonably priced and blows any mac lap out of the water....at ANY price
post edited by Vastman - 2016/08/28 04:56:02
Dana We make the future... Climate Change MusicVastMaschine:SP4L/W10/i74930K/32GB/RME/CAD E100s; The Orchestra! NOVO!/Inspire/BohemianViolin&Cello, ARK1&2,/MinimalCapriccioMaximoSoto/OE1&2, Action&Emotive/Omni2/Tril/RMX/All OrangeTree/Falcon/APE Jugs/Alpha&Bravo/BFD3 & SD3Gravity/DM307/AEON/DM/Damage/Diva/HZebra/Hive/Diversion/VC4/Serum/Alchemy/blablablaSpitfire/8DIO/SL/KH/EW/NI; Shred1&2/AGF,G,M&T Torch&Res&Ren/GD-6; Ibanez SR1200&SR505NOVAX FanFret Tele&Strat
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dwardzala
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Re: I think I am about fed up with MS and Windows.
2016/08/28 18:16:44
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dcumpian
Frankly, my best investment in better mixing was a giant trackball from Kensington. With one click, I can lock the trackball to the fader (or any other control) and ride the ball with my fingertips. Really great control that way.
Dan
Dan, how do you lock the trackball to a fader? Is this specific to Kensington trackballs (I have a logitech)?
DaveMain Studio- Core i5 @2.67GHz, 16Gb Ram, (2) 500Gb HDs, (1) 360 Gb HD MotU Ultralite AVB, Axiom 49 Midi Controller, Akai MPD18 Midi Controller Win10 x64 Home Sonar 2017.06 Platinum (and X3e, X2c, X1d) Mobile Studio - Sager NP8677 (i7-6700HQ @2.67MHz, 16G Ram, 250G SSD, 1T HD) M-Box Mini v. 2 Win 10 x64 Home Sonar 2016.10 Platinum Check out my original music: https://soundcloud.com/d-wardzala/sets/d-wardzala-original-music
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dcumpian
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Re: I think I am about fed up with MS and Windows.
2016/08/29 08:32:20
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dwardzala
dcumpian
Frankly, my best investment in better mixing was a giant trackball from Kensington. With one click, I can lock the trackball to the fader (or any other control) and ride the ball with my fingertips. Really great control that way.
Dan
Dan, how do you lock the trackball to a fader? Is this specific to Kensington trackballs (I have a logitech)?
The Kensington has 4 buttons that are programmable. I have one button programmed to "stick" (I forget what they call it in the software) to whatever control the mouse is over. It works great. It is so easy to do fader moves and/or draw automation just resting my fingertips on the ball. Regards, Dan
Mixing is all about control. My music: http://dancumpian.bandcamp.com/ or https://soundcloud.com/dcumpian Studiocat Advanced Studio DAW (Intel i5 3550 @ 3.7GHz, Z77 motherboard, 16GB Ram, lots of HDDs), Sonar Plat, Mackie 1604, PreSonus Audiobox 44VSL, ESI 4x4 Midi Interface, Ibanez Bass, Custom Fender Mexi-Strat, NI S88, Roland JV-2080 & MDB-1, Komplete, Omnisphere, Lots o' plugins.
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dwardzala
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Re: I think I am about fed up with MS and Windows.
2016/08/29 09:27:32
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OK, thanks - I will need to investigate to see if I can do something similar with the Logitech.
DaveMain Studio- Core i5 @2.67GHz, 16Gb Ram, (2) 500Gb HDs, (1) 360 Gb HD MotU Ultralite AVB, Axiom 49 Midi Controller, Akai MPD18 Midi Controller Win10 x64 Home Sonar 2017.06 Platinum (and X3e, X2c, X1d) Mobile Studio - Sager NP8677 (i7-6700HQ @2.67MHz, 16G Ram, 250G SSD, 1T HD) M-Box Mini v. 2 Win 10 x64 Home Sonar 2016.10 Platinum Check out my original music: https://soundcloud.com/d-wardzala/sets/d-wardzala-original-music
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