Helpful ReplyI want new computer...

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Thedoccal
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2018/08/10 21:34:18 (permalink)

I want new computer...

...but I want one that probably doesn't exist.
 
I want one that will allow me to run 16+ usb devices including several usb audio capable keyboards.
I want one that will at the same time run firewire audio.
I want one that will also let me run the onboard audio card through it's own speaker system.
I want it all to be available without having to shut down and reboot or change any settings.
 
I want a motherboard that is built for music production, not gaming, or video rendering.
I can't find any Youtube videos that address this need...multiple audio.
 
I know I know.  Drivers.  Drivers.  Drivers.
But why is this still an issue in our new, advanced musical technology environment?

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#1
Jim Roseberry
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Re: I want new computer... 2018/08/10 21:40:58 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby abacab 2018/08/10 22:34:33
The reason you won't find an "Audio specific" motherboard is pretty simple.
DAW users are a miniscule part of the overall market-share.
The general-purpose and gaming segments *dwarf* our segment.
You've probably noticed that most hardware is marketed to "nerdy teenage males".
That's not by accident...  
 
Some motherboards are excellent for use as a DAW.
Some (of course) are not...

Best Regards,

Jim Roseberry
jim@studiocat.com
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#2
abacab
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Re: I want new computer... 2018/08/10 22:34:59 (permalink)
Well said! 

DAW: CbB; Sonar Platinum, and others ... 
#3
Thedoccal
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Re: I want new computer... 2018/08/11 16:56:49 (permalink)
Good.  So the technology exists, but there is not enough of a market for a motherboard company to spend the time making one.  That's fixable.  It's called Kickstarter.  Raise $100,000, then partner with a motherboard company to design and print off 100 of them.  I may just do that.
 
There are 1000 other studio users who are looking to get into the Threadripper craze right now, but what stops someone like me is the fact that I have zero confidence that a new computer will let me use audio freely and confidently.  Graphics cards, USB3, RAM, and PCIe slots enjoy this luxury.  It is now audio's turn.
 
What I mean is this:
I have a Yamaha MOX that can stream usb audio
I have a Korg M3 that can stream Firewire audio
I have a mixer that can stream usb and Firewire audio
I have three Zoom mixers that can all stream usb audio
I have web cam that can record usb audio and video and
a Camlink that can do the same.
And I have the motherboard audio.
 
As it stands now, I can only use one or two of these devices at once without running into all sorts of problems.
I want to be able to use them all at once, or at least the first three all at once. 
 
Some sort of control panel that manages all these devices in one place (like the asio4all panel does) would be a must.  That might have to be another Kickstarter.
 
I think this is probably impossible...but I wouldn't know for sure.
 
 

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#4
BobF
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Re: I want new computer... 2018/08/11 18:38:51 (permalink)
The problem with USB audio devices being used concurrently isn't a motherboard problem.  It's an ASIO problem.
 
I also have a lot of USB audio devices and it is a PITA that only one can be used by any instance of an audio application at a time.  My system is configured with the motherboard audio as the default for Windows, while my DAW(s) use my UMC1820.  I handle the routing with a Samson C-Control so that they can be routed to my speakers or turned off without making changes in Windows.
 
It a big disappointment that my GT-001, THR10 or Roland FA06 can be used for recording via USB while continuing to use the 1820.    Instead, I'm forced to take analog audio out of them into the 1820.  Unfortunately, this can't be corrected with a motherboard design change alone.

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#5
GaryMedia
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Re: I want new computer... 2018/08/11 18:40:42 (permalink)
I just finished working on an article in which I was running the same three audio functions; Dante Virtual Soundcard, Midas DN32-USB, and a Dante AVIO-USB in both macOS and Windows 10.  
 
My machine has a firewire Echo AudioFire Pre8 and 10 USB devices; two are audio.  The constraints of Windows ASIO and Windows Audio Device made changing between these a rather clumsy and error-prone situation. As you have correctly stated, it's drivers; specifically multi-client drivers and the sound subsystem architecture. 
 
Although I've never used it, it seems that the VoiceMeeter product [ https://www.vb-audio.com/Voicemeeter/ ] is your best way forward for doing what you want in a Windows environment. 
 

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#6
Thedoccal
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Re: I want new computer... 2018/08/12 04:36:44 (permalink)
It looks like a combination of
Virtual Audio Cable,
https://www.vb-audio.com/Cable/index.htm
 
and Banana (or Voicemeeter),
https://www.vb-audio.com/Voicemeeter/banana.htm
https://www.vb-audio.com/Voicemeeter/
 
could be the ticket.
 
Using VoiceMeeter as the sound card source in Sonar, Cubase, Studio One etc
And then switching sound sources in the Voicemeeter drop down menu,
(Voicemeeter will be managing the drivers and not the DAW)
Would certainly take the strain off of DAW driver switching management.
If it manages them well enough.
 
It looks like Banana will let me use a DAW and two Keyboard USB audio sources simultaneously.
Will test this out tomorrow.  This is certainly worth a try.
 
If it works it makes sense to get a new computer.
 

http://www.catastrophelounge.com
The NeckDive Strap - NEW^^
Sonar: Platinum Lifetime/Computer: i7-870, 16GB RAM, AMD R9 380 graphics, Windows 10 (Pro x64)/500gb SSD C:, Barracuda sample(3T) and projects(1T) drives/3 Display Monitors (2&3 split)/Audio Interface: Behringer UFX1604 USB/Firewire/USB Stick/MIDI: Roland A-800Pro, Keystation Pro 88, Roland UM-3G:/Hardware Synths: Korg M3, Yamaha MOX6, Roland TD-8
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fireberd
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Re: I want new computer... 2018/08/12 11:17:06 (permalink)
Market determines devices and availability.  Just as Jim Roseberry stated about motherboards is also true for us Pedal Steel Guitar players.  Probably 10000 to 1 (maybe larger) ratio for 6 string guitar players to Pedal Steel Guitar players. None of the mass market musical instrument companies (e.g. Fender) make a Pedal Steel Guitar, its all small boutique builders.   There are very few amps and other devices designed specifically for Pedal Steel Guitar.  We have to use general "guitar" devices (e.g. effects processsors and stomp boxes) and many of those are not very good for use with Pedal Steel.  Peavey and Quilter are the only two mass market amp companies that make an amp aimed at Pedal Steel Guitar (I have a Quilter "Steelaire" rack amp).  I use an old POD X3 for effects only (no amp modeling) but had to develop my own effects chains as the built in factory effects were all useless.

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#8
BobF
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Re: I want new computer... 2018/08/12 12:14:52 (permalink)
Thedoccal
It looks like a combination of
Virtual Audio Cable,
https://www.vb-audio.com/Cable/index.htm
 
and Banana (or Voicemeeter),
https://www.vb-audio.com/Voicemeeter/banana.htm
https://www.vb-audio.com/Voicemeeter/
 
could be the ticket.
 
Using VoiceMeeter as the sound card source in Sonar, Cubase, Studio One etc
And then switching sound sources in the Voicemeeter drop down menu,
(Voicemeeter will be managing the drivers and not the DAW)
Would certainly take the strain off of DAW driver switching management.
If it manages them well enough.
 
It looks like Banana will let me use a DAW and two Keyboard USB audio sources simultaneously.
Will test this out tomorrow.  This is certainly worth a try.
 
If it works it makes sense to get a new computer.
 





I use vb-audio and pedalboard2 for Win audio to allow use of ARC2 outside of the DAW environment.  Please post back if you're able to go virtual in front of your DAW without latency and sync problems.
 
That would be very sweet, although I suspect clock drift between the various A/D converters will be a problem.  Hopefully not.

Bob  --
Angels are crying because truth has died ...
Illegitimi non carborundum
--
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#9
Thedoccal
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Re: I want new computer... 2018/08/12 18:55:45 (permalink)
From the Banana Manual:
Looks like you can set two (of 3) outputs to different sources,
one ASIO (mixer, Sound Card) and one WDM (onboard computer audio)
https://screenshots.firef...9oExo/www.vb-audio.com
 
The next step is to turn every single device I have on, and see what shows up in this list:
https://screenshots.firefox.com/POqYMMsXod08oK6E/www.vb-audio.com
 
I'm reading the manual before I install anything, but this is looking good so far.
I really want to ask JunkieXL about this...

http://www.catastrophelounge.com
The NeckDive Strap - NEW^^
Sonar: Platinum Lifetime/Computer: i7-870, 16GB RAM, AMD R9 380 graphics, Windows 10 (Pro x64)/500gb SSD C:, Barracuda sample(3T) and projects(1T) drives/3 Display Monitors (2&3 split)/Audio Interface: Behringer UFX1604 USB/Firewire/USB Stick/MIDI: Roland A-800Pro, Keystation Pro 88, Roland UM-3G:/Hardware Synths: Korg M3, Yamaha MOX6, Roland TD-8
#10
Jim Roseberry
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Re: I want new computer... 2018/08/13 12:22:18 (permalink)
If you're going to use several different audio interfaces simultaneously (for recording/playback), they need to be running from a common clock-source... or the tracks will drift-apart over time (due to slight differences in digital clocks).

Best Regards,

Jim Roseberry
jim@studiocat.com
www.studiocat.com
#11
Starise
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Re: I want new computer... 2018/08/15 12:22:45 (permalink)
It's almost easier to input audio from older synths into a mixer or interface and record the midi channels. There's something to be said for hardware midi routing too. You could record audio and have a midi track at the same time.
CbB has sysex so it can speak to the older hardware.
 
Probably not what you wanted to hear, but music production has been concentrated on routing ITB for some time now.
 
The industry is focusing on the user who uses one or two input devices. Most stand alone usb recording devices are designed primarily for dumping audio that was recorded on location.
 
I know this isn't what you want and unfortunately you are in the minority. I don't think a dedicated MOBO for audio would sell because it would cost more and the market for it would be very small.

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#12
Jim Roseberry
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Re: I want new computer... 2018/08/15 14:54:57 (permalink)
Setting up manufacturing for a motherboard can't be cheap.
The reason parts are reasonably priced; tens of thousands of each are made/sold.
A niche piece of hardware would be cost prohibitive
 
In relation to the original needs/concerns (extremely flexible routing/etc), both AVB and Dante are capable of extreme routing flexibility (many inputs/outputs, multiple-rooms, etc).  That (or digital mixer) might be a more practical solution.
 

Best Regards,

Jim Roseberry
jim@studiocat.com
www.studiocat.com
#13
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