Noah330
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I wish you could get stripped DAW software
I'll be completly honest - I don't use any of the plugs that come with Sonar. I have a UAD-1, a Powercore, a Liquidmix, Waves Platinum, a bunch of NI/IK stuff and a PCM-90. I also have GigaStudio and Altiverb running on seperate machines.
I know some people use the included plugs and synths, I'm not one of them.
Maybe it's becasue I'm not that into dance music and tend to record real instruments - I do use NI B4, FM7 and Electrik Piano - but most of the included plugs and softsynths just don't do it for me.
I understand some people are new to the game when they buy Sonar, but it would be nice to be able to buy a version that was cheaper and didn't come with any of this stuff. It probably will never happen, but it's just a thought
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Rothchild
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RE: I wish you could get stripped DAW software
2007/02/16 08:57:11
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Err, Check out the 'Studio' edition of Sonar, it's right up your street.
Child
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koikane
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RE: I wish you could get stripped DAW software
2007/02/16 09:10:54
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Stripped but with the eq would be my vote. Maybe a build your own sonar. this won't happen until the computer is actually the internet.
Koidizzle
If it's not in the mix, it's not in the master http://www.soundclick.com/kandd https://soundcloud.com/user-121927816 Motu MK3, Tascam-DM24, Lucid Work Clocked & Powercore Firewire Windows 10 64 bit, MSI MOBO, Intel i7-3770 @ 3.40GHz, 16 gigs of ram Sonar Platinum, some Plugins, crud, junk, some wires and stuff
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Ognis
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RE: I wish you could get stripped DAW software
2007/02/16 09:36:39
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Maybe it's becasue I'm not that into dance music rotflmao
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dcastle
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RE: I wish you could get stripped DAW software
2007/02/16 09:40:39
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I have a UAD-1, a Powercore, a Liquidmix, Waves Platinum, a bunch of NI/IK stuff and a PCM-90. I also have GigaStudio and Altiverb running on seperate machines. I understand some people are new to the game when they buy Sonar, but it would be nice to be able to buy a version that was cheaper and didn't come with any of this stuff. It probably will never happen, but it's just a thought With all the other stuff that you have bought, the difference in price between a full-loaded SONAR and a stripped down version would be a drop in the bucket.
ASUS M3A78 AMD 9950 Quad 2.6G 8GB Shure • Rhode • Audio-Technica • Allen&Heath GL2200-24 MOTU 24i • Presonus Firepod • E-MU 1212m • Zoom H2 SONAR 2XL-8PE • Sound Forge 1-9 • Audacity 0.1-1.3
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Ognis
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RE: I wish you could get stripped DAW software
2007/02/16 10:03:57
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ORIGINAL: dcastle
I have a UAD-1, a Powercore, a Liquidmix, Waves Platinum, a bunch of NI/IK stuff and a PCM-90. I also have GigaStudio and Altiverb running on seperate machines.
I understand some people are new to the game when they buy Sonar, but it would be nice to be able to buy a version that was cheaper and didn't come with any of this stuff. It probably will never happen, but it's just a thought
With all the other stuff that you have bought, the difference in price between a full-loaded SONAR and a stripped down version would be a drop in the bucket.
UAD-1 = Retail Price: $499.00 PowerCore (mkII?) = Retail Price: $995.00 Liquid Mix = Retail Price: $1,099.99 Waves Platinum Native = Retail Price: $2100 Lexicon PCM 91 = Retail Price: $1,999.00 Native Instruments B4 = Retail Price: $229.00 Native Instruments FM7 = Used & new from $299.99 Native Instruments ELEKTRIK PIANO = $229.00 TASCAM GigaStudio 3.0 = $129.99 Audio Ease Altiverb Convolution Reverb = $799.00 Total, 8,379.97 U.S. dollars (and that doesn't even count the "a bunch of NI/IK stuff")... Sonar 6 PE = $619.
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stevec
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RE: I wish you could get stripped DAW software
2007/02/16 10:31:59
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Total, 8,379.97 U.S. dollars (and that doesn't even count the "a bunch of NI/IK stuff")...
Sonar 6 PE = $619. Huh... In my dreams!  Perhaps the OP doesn't know that the installer allows you to unselect the synths and FX? That may more or less represent a stripped down version.
SteveC https://soundcloud.com/steve-cocchi http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=39163 SONAR Platinum x64, Intel Q9300 (2.5Ghz), Asus P5N-D, Win7 x64 SP1, 8GB RAM, 1TB internal + ESATA + USB Backup HDDs, ATI Radeon HD5450 1GB RAM + dual ViewSonic VA2431wm Monitors; Focusrite 18i6 (ASIO); Komplete 9, Melodyne Studio 4, Ozone 7 Advanced, Rapture Pro, GPO5, Valhalla Plate, MJUC comp, MDynamic EQ, lots of other freebie VST plugins, synths and Kontakt libraries
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Noah330
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RE: I wish you could get stripped DAW software
2007/02/16 11:20:45
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I didn't spend anything for my setup. I get all of my softrware and plugs for free because of my line of work. I am also well aware of the installer allowing one to choose instal options (plugs, etc...). I just think it would be an interesting concept in the DAW marketplace. Say a user could get Producer's functionality at a discounted price without plugs. Cakewalk to sell the plugs as a seperate package later. For the person that suggested 'Studio', I could be worng but I believe 'Studio' doesn't do surround and also includes 29 or the 31 plugs Producer comes with and 5 of the 9 VIs.
post edited by Noah330 - 2007/02/16 11:46:46
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chauncey_gardner
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RE: I wish you could get stripped DAW software
2007/02/16 12:07:31
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I will echo this post - although I pay for EVERYTHING on my PC.
I use the EQ - that is about it. I don't know what it is about the VST-is, but I never use them. Can't remember the last time I did. As for the VST effects - EQ...occasionally the delay but not that often. Compressor if my UAD1 is used up. (Note to self: Buy another card). It is not that they are bad effects, but they do not have the character of the UAD1 plugs.
My question isn't so much about the cost as it would be nice to have the full functionality of S6PE without some of the overhead for unused modules. SE doesnt have all of the functions I do use.
How about a compromise - allow things to be loaded as you need them - sort of like when you install Microsoft Office - if you don't need Powerpoint, dont install it. Mabye we could streamline Sonar some that way. Maybe not.
Sonica Dual Core 3.4 GHz, 2GB Ram, 3HDs, UAD1, PoCo Firewire, DIGI 9652, D8B, vintage synths, guitars and more money than talent (though questionable how much of either). XP Home SP2. SPE6.2. Other things of variable interest.
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jb
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RE: I wish you could get stripped DAW software
2007/02/16 12:43:14
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ORIGINAL: chauncey_gardner
I will echo this post - although I pay for EVERYTHING on my PC.
I use the EQ - that is about it. I don't know what it is about the VST-is, but I never use them. Can't remember the last time I did. As for the VST effects - EQ...occasionally the delay but not that often. Compressor if my UAD1 is used up. (Note to self: Buy another card). It is not that they are bad effects, but they do not have the character of the UAD1 plugs.
My question isn't so much about the cost as it would be nice to have the full functionality of S6PE without some of the overhead for unused modules. SE doesnt have all of the functions I do use.
How about a compromise - allow things to be loaded as you need them - sort of like when you install Microsoft Office - if you don't need Powerpoint, dont install it. Mabye we could streamline Sonar some that way. Maybe not.
But as others have already pointed out you can do this now - simply do a custom install.
Celeron 300A o/c 450, SBLive, Win98SE
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Noah330
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RE: I wish you could get stripped DAW software
2007/02/16 13:52:22
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Yes - you can do this from a custom install but this requires you to pay for things you are not using.
I think it would be an interesting idea if a DAW (not just Sonar - but any) allowed you to purchase the software and add plugs as needed.
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jb
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RE: I wish you could get stripped DAW software
2007/02/16 14:10:52
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ORIGINAL: Noah330
Yes - you can do this from a custom install but this requires you to pay for things you are not using.
I think it would be an interesting idea if a DAW (not just Sonar - but any) allowed you to purchase the software and add plugs as needed.
I think that's about the most one can say for the idea; it's interesting. of course that's not saying very much, is it?
Celeron 300A o/c 450, SBLive, Win98SE
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riojazz
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RE: I wish you could get stripped DAW software
2007/02/16 14:24:29
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Band-in-a-Box by PG Music does it the way you suggest, Noah. They provide a bare bones product for the entry-level price of $88, and add-ons for much more - several hundred at least. One poster to their forum had a request that I suggested could be solved by a $29 add-on. I was flamed because he wanted a fix in the basic version without spending any more money. You can imagine what was said when I suggested buying all the styles and add-ons.
Yes, SONAR customers are accustomed to working with more expensive high-quality products, but I wonder if Cakewalk would receive the same complaints about the functionality of its "basic" program if they tried it the way you suggest. People would complain about being "nickel and dimed", such as Tascam does by asking users to pay $4 to register for the Tascam forum.
For my purposes of just making composer's demos with MIDI, the add-ons in Producer Edition are helpful and sufficient. I have no need (yet) to spend thousands more for the high-quality products mentioned above in this thread. I guess it's all a balance, to try to suit the most people but perhaps not all.
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Jason Archibald
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RE: I wish you could get stripped DAW software
2007/02/16 14:28:29
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It might not save that much money to provide a stripped down version.
My assumption is they dump the stuff in there because it doesn't cost them a lot of money while it adds a lot of perceived value.
www.jasonarchibald.com Athlon 64 3700+ WinXP 2GB RAM Sonar 6 PE, Cubase VST FL 7, Project 5v2 Sound Forge 9 Finale 2008, 2007c, 2005b Komplete 3, 4, Massive Novation X-Station 61, Yamaha P-80 Kore, RME Hammerfall and Mindprint DI Port
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manthe
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RE: I wish you could get stripped DAW software
2007/02/16 14:39:08
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ORIGINAL: riojazz
Band-in-a-Box by PG Music does it the way you suggest, Noah. They provide a bare bones product for the entry-level price of $88, and add-ons for much more - several hundred at least. One poster to their forum had a request that I suggested could be solved by a $29 add-on. I was flamed because he wanted a fix in the basic version without spending any more money. You can imagine what was said when I suggested buying all the styles and add-ons.
Yes, SONAR customers are accustomed to working with more expensive high-quality products, but I wonder if Cakewalk would receive the same complaints about the functionality of its "basic" program if they tried it the way you suggest. People would complain about being "nickel and dimed", such as Tascam does by asking users to pay $4 to register for the Tascam forum.
For my purposes of just making composer's demos with MIDI, the add-ons in Producer Edition are helpful and sufficient. I have no need (yet) to spend thousands more for the high-quality products mentioned above in this thread. I guess it's all a balance, to try to suit the most people but perhaps not all.
That forum is NOT affiliated in any way with Tascam. It is 100% private. The 4 dollar fee was imposed by the 2 guys that own and operate the forum. Tascam does not and will not associate with that forum, nor do they even acknowledge it. That 4 dollar thing was pretty annoying, though!
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Noah330
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RE: I wish you could get stripped DAW software
2007/02/16 14:48:45
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Yeah , Tascam closed their forum. Back in the day when I had a TM-D1000 and PCI-822 it was a real biatch to get working and GigaSampler (which later became GS) was awful and would only run on 98 and ME!
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riojazz
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RE: I wish you could get stripped DAW software
2007/02/16 15:40:28
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Thanks, Manthe, for the correction. It was an example that doesn't change what I was saying, but I don't want to spread wrong information. Now, if you want to talk about Tascam's customer service...
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Noah330
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RE: I wish you could get stripped DAW software
2007/02/16 16:12:11
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Yeah, I think Tascam has probably lost a bundle in the past 13 or 14 years. Back in the day, most people I knew had Tascam & Fostex gear in their rooms. I remember buying a TSR-8 and thinking I was set! Today, those companies don't seem to have as cool products as they used to.
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stratman70
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RE: I wish you could get stripped DAW software
2007/02/16 16:21:19
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ORIGINAL: Noah330
Maybe it's becasue I'm not that into dance music and tend to record real instruments Noah, I don't think that many people that post here are into dance music. I use the plugs and I play jazzy/R&B/Blues kinda sorta. I don't think the price would change that much either. But I do understand your situation, but honestly, I have to believe that your situation is , well, pretty rare, pretty nice, but still pretty rare. I must ask, so your work bought you all that expensive stuff, they must have bought you Sonar or something, or else why buy the other stuff? Confusing?
post edited by stratman70 - 2007/02/16 16:43:13
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Noah330
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RE: I wish you could get stripped DAW software
2007/02/16 16:24:26
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My work doesn't buy me anything. I get the software free from the software companies becasue we make training materials. I did, however buy ProAudio - Sonar 3 Producer on my own and have been a Cakewalk user for many years. As of late I have switched to Nuendo as my main DAW simply because it is better suited to video work than Sonar. This is not a slight on Sonar in any way - it's great software and I would prefer it over Cubase, but Nuendo does a lot of video things that Cakewalk doesn't make a product to compete with (it's also 2000.00 if you have to buy it!) I should clarify also that I have nothing against VSTi or DXi's. I love B4 and Electrik Piano. I simply tend to record non-synth type stuff and don't really have much use for the included synths and although the plugs are decent, they don't compare (IMHO) to UAD-1, LiquidMix or PoCo. They are great for free, but it would be an interesting marketing concept to do away with them and lower the price.
post edited by Noah330 - 2007/02/16 16:47:45
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Jesse G
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RE: I wish you could get stripped DAW software
2007/02/16 16:28:10
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You can always buy Cakewalk Home Studio , which is a watered down version of Sonar with out all of the thrills, but it's great for the novice to use. You get what you pay for. Peace
Peace,Jesse G. A fisher of men <>< ==============================Cakewalk and I are going places together!
Cakewalk By Bandlab, Windows 10 Pro- 64 bit, Gigabyte GA-Z97X-SLI, Intel Core i5-4460 Haswell Processor, Crucial Ballistix 32 GB Ram, PNY GeForce GTX 750, Roland Octa-Capture, Mackie Big Knob, Mackie Universal Controller (MCU), KRK V4's, KRK Rockit 6, Korg TR-61 Workstation, M-Audio Code 49 MIDI keyboard controller.[/
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stratcat
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RE: I wish you could get stripped DAW software
2007/02/16 16:31:53
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I assume that Sonar's cost is based on what the folks at Cakewalk think Sonar is worth - even without the plugins. I would assume they get the plugs at a great rate and they are more of a bonus feature. AND it's a huge marketing thing. Would I have paid to upgrade from Sonar Studio 4 to Sonar Producer 6 without getting the V-Vocal and VC64? Nope.
But I have to say I am still amazed that a simple mp3 encoder is not included....??
Stratcat Sonar PE 6.2.1 P4 2.8c
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Clydewinder
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RE: I wish you could get stripped DAW software
2007/02/16 16:31:55
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Home Studio is a great piece of software, as is Sonar LE. My guitar player completed a whole album project just using Sonar LE and freeware VSTs, and it sounds pretty impressive.
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Ognis
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RE: I wish you could get stripped DAW software
2007/02/16 16:43:27
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I agree that they wouldnt do it. The plug ins that they own, they develop, or sub out for people to develop, and pay them for it. I'm sure after selling a few thousand (or more likley less) the cost of the development is covered, with the rest being profet. The Roland plugs, I'm sure they pay rolayities to Roland for. You have to think that software is made, then done. Once the development costs are covered it is profet (aside from overhead, and the development team constantly tring to keep up with bugs, and current version updates). However, with the plugs, I don't see anything being updated often at that end. Point being, If they droped the price for the same Sonar PE, by how much would it be ? 1) That would put a value to those plugs (the price difference) that customers could see. 2) If they drop the price by too much, it makes sonar itself look cheap, if they don't drop it enough, it makes people that payed for plugs and all feel they are being ripped off. 3) It's all about money (as it should be, Cakewalk is a company), and if they do this, and say sell Sonar PE *Lite*, for say $450.00, then they will be loosing a great deal, that after you concider per unit loss of $169.00, adding up into the thousands of units, that's a hell of a big loss. All in all, they wont do it, and if I were them, I wouldn't either.
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Brando
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RE: I wish you could get stripped DAW software
2007/02/16 17:01:44
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ORIGINAL: riojazz
Yes, SONAR customers are accustomed to working with more expensive high-quality products, but I wonder if Cakewalk would receive the same complaints about the functionality of its "basic" program if they tried it the way you suggest. People would complain about being "nickel and dimed", such as Tascam does by asking users to pay $4 to register for the Tascam forum.
Just look at the MP3 encoder as a perfect example of just what you describe. Cake made the (right) decision to charge extra for the MP3 encoder to avoid charging a license fee to those who would never use it, and to allow people who already had purchased the license to carry it forward without having it built into the pricing structure. Inevitably, there are MANY who come on these forums with the opinion "WTF doesn't Cake include the mp3 encoder in the basic price.."? You can't please everybody. As well, inevitably there would be those who felt that the price reduction for the removal of a particular plug would be unfairly smaller than the "worth" of the plug. There are economies of scale that affect this and an expectation of revenue is part of the equation. And my biggest concern is whether accomodation of this flexibility would in any way detract from the stability of the program as a whole.
Brando
Cakewalk, Studio One Pro, Reaper Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL ASUS Prime Z370-A LGA1151, 32GB DDR4, Intel 8700K i7, 500 GB SSD, 3 x 1TB HDD, Windows 10 Pro 64
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ducatibruce
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RE: I wish you could get stripped DAW software
2007/02/16 18:44:51
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Economies of scale would suggest that it would be expensive to produce a variety of custom Sonar install DVDs and that CW would find it cheaper to supply one standard install DVD so...
The thing that would concern me is how would Sonar make sure you only used what you'd paid for. Product activation style on every install/reinstall, challenge respose - or, heaven forbid, Logic like dongles?
I'd rather Sonar worried about being a DAW than spent time/resources authenticating purchases/licenses and making sure I wasn't cheating.
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John
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RE: I wish you could get stripped DAW software
2007/02/17 01:32:35
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Yes - you can do this from a custom install but this requires you to pay for things you are not using. I think it would be an interesting idea if a DAW (not just Sonar - but any) allowed you to purchase the software and add plugs as needed. Why should you care you don't pay for anything anyway. I didn't spend anything for my setup. I get all of my softrware and plugs for free because of my line of work. I am also well aware of the installer allowing one to choose instal options (plugs, etc...).
I just think it would be an interesting concept in the DAW marketplace. Say a user could get Producer's functionality at a discounted price without plugs. Cakewalk to sell the plugs as a seperate package later.
For the person that suggested 'Studio', I could be worng but I believe 'Studio' doesn't do surround and also includes 29 or the 31 plugs Producer comes with and 5 of the 9 VIs. At least that is what you say above. I don't think you are making any points that have any value to anybody. You may not like what Sonar has with it but many do and ultimately who cares whether you do or not?. I have every plugin from every Sonar release. I would not want to do without them. You can throw them out or keep them. Your complaint is a non issue Best John
post edited by John - 2007/02/17 01:54:02
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Junski
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RE: I wish you could get stripped DAW software
2007/02/17 03:25:40
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ORIGINAL: Noah330
I'll be completly honest - I don't use any of the plugs that come with Sonar. I have a UAD-1, a Powercore, a Liquidmix, Waves Platinum, a bunch of NI/IK stuff and a PCM-90. I also have GigaStudio and Altiverb running on seperate machines.
I know some people use the included plugs and synths, I'm not one of them.
Maybe it's becasue I'm not that into dance music and tend to record real instruments - I do use NI B4, FM7 and Electrik Piano - but most of the included plugs and softsynths just don't do it for me.
I understand some people are new to the game when they buy Sonar, but it would be nice to be able to buy a version that was cheaper and didn't come with any of this stuff. It probably will never happen, but it's just a thought
Sonar LE comes free w/ some hardware  . BTW, does any truely competing DAW software company offer this type packages you're after? Junski
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