I'm trying to convince my bandmates to buy Sonar to record their parts... need advice.

Hi, guys. Happy Monday.

So here's the situation. I live in an entirely different city than my band and I want to put an album together. I own the Production Suite and am already starting to lay down bed tracks. I want to send the band bundled project files so they can track their parts and send them back to me for mixing. I know they're probably not gonna want to spend a ton of money so I'm trying to get them to buy one of the lesser packages like Essentials or Studio but I'm not sure what is going to be necessary. Here is some more info:

I would be doing drum bed tracks with Session Drummer or BFD Eco to show the drummer how everything is supposed to be played so then he can do his magic based on that. However I see Essentials doesn't include SD3. I'm guessing I could just bounce to audio to solve those issues. Correct? The drums will likely be fully mic'd so I'd be looking at 6-8 tracks there.

There will be about 3-5 other tracks that may have multiple takes of each so I can pick out the best stuff and use it on the final track. So I'm guessing with the drums I'd be looking at about 16 tracks plus whatever I have sent them (probably about 4-5). I doubt any track count limitations will effect this but I just want to know if they may run into problems with this amount of tracks.

I want to keep the projects in 24 Bit 96k right up until the final mixdown. Are there any limitations in the lesser versions in this regard?


And that's basically it as far as the actual tracking. So what would be the most appropriate and cost effective option here? Also I was just looking around the Cake store to give them an idea of price but I can't seem to find any FULL versions for download. Just upgrades. Am I missing something here? I bought my version in the box from a retailer so I didn't deal with that myself. Seems a little odd to me.

Anyway, that's all I can think of at the moment but if anyone can shed a little light on this or give me a heads up on stuff I should be careful of it would very much be appreciated. I will update this if I think of anything else. Thanks guys and have a great day.

Essentials should be fine for everyone doing a single track at a time. You can send CWB, pass them around with no problems. Save as CWB with a different name than the one you are working with. Freeze your vst tracks like dimension or SD3 and move them to "audio" tracks. Delete the VST's and save again. Pass them around. Let each member add their tracks. Bring their tracks into you parent project and edit to your heart's content. http://www.cakewalk.com/P...R-X1-Comparison-Chart-

Bundle files are huge and somewhat unreliable. You would have to burn them to a DVD and mail them on DVDs because most internet services don't allow you to send files over 1 GB. 

Also, if everyone doesn't have the same exact plug-ins as you, they may have problems opening the bundle files. I would suggest that you send them a WAV or MP3 of your drum track or a click track and have them record and send you separate WAV files of their parts. You would then import them into the master project in Sonar and mix them into the final product. 

By the way 24/96 is way overkill unless you're recording an orchestra. Just go with 24/44.1K. The files will be much smaller and you won't be wasting a lot of resources for little or no noticeable gain. 

@daveny... Hi there. Hope you've been well. I'm going for 96 because it's all acoustic instruments and this is going to be a full production for release. I'll probably even be sending it to a mastering house when it's all done. I figure I'd keep the quality as high as possible because of this. As far as sending the files back and forth I may try out the paid version of dropbox but I think even the free version allows 2.5 GB. However you are right in the sense it may not be trustworthy. I was also considering getting a couple of those crazy tough steel Corsair 32 GB flash drives or as you said using DVDs. Cheers.

You could have everyone use Essentials, and you could make the starting point, EXPORT it to a single track...compress it to MP3... send it to your band mates. They can import that track into a project and let them record as desired. Then they can EXPORT the tracks they create as individual tracks and send it to you for you to put together.

travismc1


Your file transfer method and file size will be your biggest hindrance.

I agree with this, and using 96KHz as a sample rate will double the file size for questionable quality benefits.

Beepster, don't confuse the 64 bit of an operating System, such as Windows 7, with the 64 bit engine of sonar - they are totally unrelated.

I use Sonar's 64 bit engine exclusively for bouncing and exporting, and only ever use dither as the very last process prior to CD burning, usually as part of an export.

@Jonesy... I would be turning on/off the 64 bit engine through the Preferences window right? Also if I've been paying attention I think I'm supposed leave it off until I'm ready to mix down or I guess as you say bounce a track. And yes Carl and others made me aware that dithering is only to be applied for the very final export down to 16 bit which as I said I may not even be doing if I send it to a mastering house. Soooo... much to learn. Anyway it sounds like Essentials will probably do what I need but it will take some kerfutzing. If this is not the case then which version should I be looking at? Cheers.

Hi Beepster,
I actually do the kind of recording you're talking about every day. Some details about how we do it:

Platform really doesn't matter. I work with folks that use Logic and PT all the time, so when it comes to using Essentials, as long as they can record what they need to the platform shouldn't matter. Keep in mind that you're likely not going to have the same plugins across platforms even if you do use the same DAW, so why sweat it? Instead just:

1. Agree on a file format - we usually use .wav files at 48/24, and then:

2. Use stems. For example - I'll start a song in Sonar and write 2 verses and a chorus with some scratch tracks (drums, guitars and what have you). I'll export stems, usually by using busses and exporting them. Good bussing helps a ton here. I sometimes end up with a bus with only on track going to it...that's OK, it makes my exporting and organization easier. I'll then zip up the exported stems and upload them to a shared file service like google drive. The next guy, in my case usually my partner (who is primarily a guitarist), will download stems and write his parts along with any further composition (like adding a solo and/or a bridge). We then repeat for any additional composition or session artists. Once all the tracks are done I'll download all the tracks and import into Sonar to run through the SSL, mix and finish up. 
The good news with stems is that other artists can do rough mixes to suit their monitoring needs. So for example, once I upload the first stems from my studio in SLC, my partner may change the relative volumes in his DAW to record his parts when he records in L.A. The same thing may happen for a drummer we hire in San Francisco so he can record his parts. Using stems makes that possible.

This kind of recording is increasingly common...so much so, in fact, that (at least in my experience) it's becoming more and more the de facto norm.

Good luck
Dean

Hi, Razorwit. Yeah that's pretty much where I'm gonna go with this. I know the string player has some kind of DAW going but I'm not sure what. I'm still waiting to hear back from him to get his thoughts on this. All I know is this is the most profitable act I've ever played in so a proper recording is WAY over do. Also considering the style of music we might qualify for some art grants to help things along. I'm pretty excited actually. Cheers.

Beepster.... they can buy Music Creator 6 for $40 or so from a local office supply store or best buy too... or get it from cake. 

A decent interface for audio makes it work better.... 

and as far as working over the net.... send MP3 files of the song as you have it. Include the count in and send that. They can load it up in MC6 and record their parts and simply send the one or two waves back. 

Bundling is to much of a pain.   Keep it simple.... use MP3's.

vintagevibe


USE BUN FILES!!!  I've been using them since they were introduced in the 90's. and have never had a problem.  If you did have a problem just have them re-saved and sent again.  This will make your live way easier!

That'll put the cat amongst the pigeons... Seriously though, the band I was in used CWB files, but we saw each other on a daily basis and used DVD's at the time (SD cards would be the preferred format now...). If we ever did have to do stuff remotely, we FTP'd individual WAV files and provided the usual tempo/clip start time info, if required. Even that was a bit prohibitive at times.

I do this by exchanging wav files exported from audio tracks (or midi files in some situations).  For me, there wasn't really any gain from having everyone on the same DAW, and a lot of guys already have other programs to start with.  That always seemed like the most flexible approach here....

Also, I have played with this site called indaba, it's basically an online DAW where everyone can track, store things, and generally collaborate. It had a lot of promise, but I could nnever get anyone else really engaged with it, so it sort of fell off. Maybe it was ahead of its time, this was a couple of years ago, I haven't visited since, maybe its the ticket now (or maybe it's gone, idano...)

I know I didn;t quite answer the question you asked, beep, but still.... :)

I see your point, beep, about trying to arm your mates with as much info - structure, really - as you can.  It sounds like you might be runnig into a dynamic that I found really hard to deal with, where the skill and equipment level of guys I wanted to include in collaborations was just lacking and I had to try to find creative ways to get them plugged into the game.  In the end, I was generally not successful, and for remote collaboration I have concluded that it works best with folks who are basically already comfortable (or can learn fast) with the process like razorwit laid out. 

I'm not trying to be a black cloud of gloom here, man, just sharing my travels on a similar path.  Artistically, I had this really nice group together, albeit in different cities, and really wanted to make it work remotely, but the paradigm just didn't suit some of the folks, bottom line.  Even though it's becoming more of a norm, there are still a lot of good writers and players that just don't sport the package of musical, computer, and production skills to make remote work really practical.  Working with guys who have made the modern leap is big fun and well worth it, though, hope you get your band plugged in successfully...

USE BUN FILES!!!  I've been using them since they were introduced in the 90's. and have never had a problem

That was about 7-8 versions ago... BUNs are now CWBs. 

Beepster


Well it seems they really want to work with me (as I do them) and the one guy is kind of my right hand man and is super interested in learning everything he can so I'm hoping it will work out. They're a great bunch of folks and some of the finest musicians I've ever worked with so I'm just hoping they are willing to put in the effort/investment to make it happen. I really do think it will be worthwhile because revelers flock to this specific group like moths to a flame (we always had capacity issues even on our slow nights... the club even ate violation tickets because they made so much cash at the bar when we played it didn't bother them). It would be a terrible waste to not have something recorded. IMO anyway. I'll just have to put my head and heart into it and hope the best. Cheers.

oh, yeah, then you're golden, if you have a guy that wants to learn. My probs were more related to guys that just weren't inclined to work that way and I thought I could make it easy on them and they'd take to it.  Plus you've got more water under the bridge with your crew, sounds like, and hopefully more motivation to make it go for them.  Lemme know how it goes...