ISRC/ISWC codes - Mastering

I don't embed it in the wav file, but I do enter it in Nero when I burn audio CD's.

And, its ISRC in the US, too

Thanks for the details guys.

Dont have CD Architect and not sure if i have Nero, but from what I gather the ISRC is not embedded with the audio as such, but ripped with the CD.

Regards,

Cian

You need sony cd architect to do the coding as mentioned early.

whack


When you are publically performing or selling a song now a specific code is needed for each song so it can be digitally track and ultimately  used to help artist get their shared portion of royalties,my question comes in terms of using this code at the mastering stage..

For those that master, I know that you guys probably already have your own code; ISRC (Ireland) I think its ISWC for US?? Are these codes embedded within the audio at the render stage or is it just a number tied to that particular song through digital stores such as itunes. If it is embedded, can  anyone advise how? Can Sonar do it? besides mp3 option there doesnt appear to be any place to embed it in .wav or .aif? 

Cian

Hi Cian,
 
No, Sonar can't do it. Here's how it works. It's up to each artist to apply for their own codes. They used to be free when you signed up for them, but now I believe there is a $70 fee or something. But once you pay for them, you never pay again. Even though I have my own ISRC codes, (yes it's ISRC here in the USA) being an ME, I can't use those codes on any client material or I would be registering their material as mine via publishing.
 
When the codes are presented, we embed them at the final stage of the mastering procedure. For this to be in effect though, it needs to be handled at the publishing stage and logged there. For example, just because you have an ISRC code, doesn't mean you make money on airplay. The songs and codes have to be registered via publishing in order for the payment to be recognized and sent to the right place, understand? All this info will be available from your publishing company. If you don't have one, definitely look into it as it's the only way you'll be paid CORRECTLY.
 
Now keep in mind, when we embed the codes on a CD audio disc, this doesn't mean if someone rips a wave or rips an mp3 that the code will show up. Those codes are written to CD audio format. Anything that comes off of a CD will need to be re-coded. For example, if you turn your wave files into mp3's to be put on iTunes or something, you'll need to supply the codes for each one.
 
There have been claims of programs being able to read ISRC's from wave files, but to this day, I've not seen it. I know CDA by Sony can read CD's that have codes embedded, but again, this is due to the CD's being written in CD audio format where the text is embedded at the CD creation stage. So I've never ripped a wave or mp3 and saw an ISRC code in its properties. That's not to say it's not possible, I just haven't seen it on my end.
 
Also, and this is another thing to keep in mind. Though we ME's all have CD writers that can write text, we always have to supply a PQ sheet to the manufacturer that also has the ISRC codes, UPC (for US) EAN (for Europe) codes (which are product catalog number codes) as well as all start times, pauses and full run time. The CD manufacturer has ways of embedding text that we do not. For example, some media players do not see written text.
 
Windows media player will not see any text I write to CD's ever, yet Winamp does. Once the manfucturer gets the CD's I've mastered and I play it through Win media, the information appears. This may have something to do with Grace Note or something....I have no clue, but you always should supply all information and never trust "write text to disc" as your only means of information. The masters I have of my own album from Bob Kats do not show any of my song titles or my ISRC codes, yet his PQ sheets have all the information and I know Bob's burners all write text. The manufacturer copies all read, so it's definitely something they do on their end that finalizes everything.
 
Anyway, sorry to get off track a bit there, but I just wanted you to know of the other things to be concerened with. Don't worry about the UPC/EAN stuff as that usually comes from a record label as your unique number that identifies a CD as "yours" in the catalog. Hope this helps.
 
-Danny

Thanks guys. Although CJ why isnt sonar a mastering program?? What do the pro-pro's use then?

Danny, I hoped you might chime in since I know you'd know how it works! I got an ISRC code for a song (for free actually from the Irish organisation) and can give it to a publisher. So I guess that is the "official" and safest way of registering a code and that having them embedded to file is merely superficial as it doesnt mean you actually will get payed. I was also enquiring about a catalogue number, but I guess I dont have that as I'm not part of a label right?

Thanks guys. Although CJ why isnt sonar a mastering program?? What do the pro-pro's use then?

 
Forgot to address this....though I'm not CJ, as there is only one man, myth and legend with that name around here, lol...I can give you my take for what it's worth.
 
Sonar IS a full blown, and VERY strong mastering program. However, it's capabilities are not geared towards "mastering a suite of material."
 
I do all my mastering in Sonar. But...I do all my editing and "full song suite preparation" in Wave Lab or even Studio One 2 as it supports DDP format right out of the box. The mastering stage has lots of variables, Cian. Allow me to try to elaborate briefly if possible.
 
There are guys that are REAL mastering guys, and then there are guys that I like to call (quoted from my friend Tony) "little m mastering guys." The big guys are going to go through the process way differently. Like for example, when I master a song, it doesn't matter if the song is 30 seonds or 3 minutes. It will take me the same amount of time. I have to edit it and manually control peaks, DC offsets, noises, hums, oscillations, pops, clicks...you get the picture. This gets done in another program because Sonar just doesn't have the tools to handle this type of editing.
 
From there I save the file as "name of song PM" which stands for "pre master". Then I can bring it into Sonar and master it. This happens for every song I master. When I'm done in Sonar, it goes to another editor where it's finalized and if there is an entire album that needs to be mastered, this is where the album comes together and is created.
 
A "little m" mastering guy is not going to do this. He's going to open Sonar or something with oZone or something else, do a few eq changes, a brick wall limiter and be done. You can do all that in Sonar and then burn right to CD all inside Sonar. But in the REAL world, it's not something you'd want to do if you were to sell it to the masses. It should be done right using all the tools needed to perform a real mastering job. Guys like CJ and myself take extra special time and consideration when mastering audio. We treat it as though it were our own...and when you do it that way, it takes time and you need the right tools to get the right results..
 
Sonar's biggest downfall is it doesn't really support album suite mastering. For example, Wave Lab, Sony CD Architect and Studio One 2, all sport suite mastering with all the tools to literally master and create a complete Redbook Audio CD. From the places to put in codes, PQ sheet timing, UPC, EAN, track substitutions where you can remove a track and add in an edited track without touching a thing....these programs are just made for the mastering aspect of audio.
 
Sort of like...you can go out a buy a bicycle and use it as a mountain bike...but you'd be WAY better off buying a mountain bike that was created for that use, know what I mean? Hope that makes sense....that's the best way I can explain it. :)
 
-Danny

You're quite welcome, Cian. Always do my best to help out when I can with this stuff. :)

As for my own stuff, I usually keep to myself and honestly don't try to exploit myself other than the little tid bits of info I share here when I feel it's best to use myself as an example. If I were to really tell you some stuff, lol...you'd start cracking up. :) But I'll probably announce some stuff on my site (which is in need of a serious update that will happen when the release is close to being done) and might say a little something in the coffee house or something for those who may care about what I'm up to. I've just never felt I've had enough friends on here to mention much about my career other than in passing where now, I feel a bit more comfortable due to the great friends I've made in the past 3 years. I'll still probably keep things low key if I say anything at all...but we'll see how I feel when the time comes. I got as many haters as friends on here too...so, you know...it's best not to upset anyone. :) Thanks for your interest though brother.

-Danny