I'm looking for a telescope forum as vibrant as this forum.

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The Maillard Reaction
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2009/01/23 09:19:20 (permalink)

I'm looking for a telescope forum as vibrant as this forum.


I want to get into the Telescope revolution that's been going on for about 10 years.

There's lots of cool medium to large telescopes available... more than ever before in our history on the planet.

I'm finding choices (and I'm limiting my interest to a Dobsonian) are staggering. I know a bit about optics etc so I'm looking for a forum where folks discuss this stuff all the time.

I have yet to find a forum as active as the SONAR forum.

So I'm just taking a wild shot in the dark.

Does anyone here have a Telescope/Skywatchers forum that they mighht recommend?

best regards,
mike


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    tarsier
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    RE: I'm looking for a telescope forum as vibrant as this forum. 2009/01/23 11:40:45 (permalink)
    I don't know... but have you heard about the $10 telescope? it sounds like an interesting project.
    #2
    OldGeezer
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    RE: I'm looking for a telescope forum as vibrant as this forum. 2009/01/23 12:06:25 (permalink)
    Try googling "Astronomy" and "Forums"

    http://cs.astronomy.com/asycs/forums/

    http://www.bautforum.com/ etc...

    BTW...while Dobsonians (aka Light Buckets) are a nice cheap way to get light collecting power/resolution at high magnifications (depending on the focal length), they are a royal pain in the arse for looking at tiny deep-sky objects as the earth's rotation tends to move them out of your field of view rather quickly, and you have to constantly nudge the scope by hand in order to keep it visible (which takes some practice). I've played around with them around 15 years ago, and personally, I'd rather have a 6 or 8 inch scope with tracking than a 12 or 16 incher without tracking. Though you have to go through the ritual of aligning to the north-star every time you set up, it's quite satisfying to aim at something and be able to look at it as long as you want (making micro adjustments now and then if needed) and even take turns with your buddies at the eyepiece without having to worry about finding it all the time. That being said though, a tracking mount is expensive, and if you're only looking at getting a small Dobsonian reflector, maybe tracking is something you can add later...better a dob than nothing I suppose.

    And as far as that $10 telescope goes, well, refractors use lenses, which are usually expensive. If you want to see good quality images, you need chromatically-corrected lenses (multi-element) which are expensive. A good eyepiece alone can cost hundreds of dollars. Even those horrible camera-store telescopes can cost hundreds, and they're crap. I wouldn't waste my time or money trying to build a refractor for 10 bucks, heh heh. Their claim is a joke...maybe a good introduction for kids. The best option on a budget is a reflector, and even if you're building your own, the mirror can cost hundreds, even thousands of dollars depending on how big you want to go. If you have to buy or build a cheap scope, the reflector (Newtonian) is the only way to go...A dobsonian is a newtonian btw..."Dobsonian" refers to the mount).

    Edit: Do your research before you go buyiing anything (I apologize if you already have)...unless you can drive out to a nice hill in the boonies (away from town/cities/any source of light pollution) you're pretty much wasting your time with astronomy. Even a nearby street light can destroy contrast in the image (light gets scattered back into the scope from air/humidity), and you'll be stuck looking at planets and missing out on nebulae and galaxies and globular clusters etc... Also, humidity can make it impossible to enjoy yourself (your mirror and optics can easily get coated with fog, and you DONT want to be wiping that mirror and destroying the surface), so a nice tall hill in the country is pretty much mandatory for serious observing...not always though. If you can get away from light sources, as long as it's dry out you should be ok. Just a bit of advise from a total rookie.

    post edited by OldGeezer - 2009/01/23 12:20:52
    #3
    The Maillard Reaction
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    RE: I'm looking for a telescope forum as vibrant as this forum. 2009/01/23 12:35:18 (permalink)
    Thanks gents,

    I've been googling Telescope forums for 2 weeks... most of the forums are made by well meaning enthusiasts but each forum is sort of like a small desert island with lots of single post inquires left unanswered... or they have one hard working person answering with the limitations that one person has... that's why I am hoping to find a real free for all forum like this.

    FWIW I live in the boonies with almost no light pollution. I am unfortunately at very low altitude 90 feet above sea level and the air can be very humid here for 6 months out of the year but I want to give this a try.

    Thanks very very much for you replies.

    best regards,
    mike


    post edited by mike_mccue - 2009/01/23 12:40:22


    #4
    OldGeezer
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    RE: I'm looking for a telescope forum as vibrant as this forum. 2009/01/23 12:50:02 (permalink)
    Well, I don't know what your budget is, but if you live in a humid area, and you can afford it, you might want to consider a schmidt cassegrain telescope. Aside from being wonderfuly compact, they can also be fitted with dew heaters (which typically plug into the cigarette lighters of your car). The optic that gets coated with dew is at the top of the scope (corrector lens) rather than buried deep inside the tube (the primary mirror).

    http://sctscopes.net/SCT_Tips/Need_to_Have/Dew_Prevention/dew_prevention.html

    But still, 6 months isn't so bad, and a newtonian is a great relatively inexpensive way to find out if you like the hobby. If you catch the bug though, watch out!
    #5
    moosetex
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    RE: I'm looking for a telescope forum as vibrant as this forum. 2009/01/24 02:13:08 (permalink)
    Have you tried this one yet:

    http://www.astronomyforum.net/

    I haven't explored it, but they seem to be organized similarly to this one, and they have specific subforums based on types of telescopes, regional groups, and even social groups. They only listed 14,766 members last time I looked, but they have about 150,000 threads with nearly a million posts, which is comparable to this forum (152,000 topics and 1.4 million posts).

    Hope you find what you're looking for...

    MOOSETEX
    post edited by moosetex - 2009/01/24 03:17:37

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    #6
    The Maillard Reaction
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    RE: I'm looking for a telescope forum as vibrant as this forum. 2009/01/24 09:17:01 (permalink)
    Hi Moosetex, I spent some time there yesterday... it was one of the better forums but there still are a lot of unanswered posts there... especially for the good questions.:-)

    Thanks for the link!

    Geezer, I think some of this is starting to sink in.

    Yesterday I learned more about eyepieces and the relationship between focal length, apparent field of view, and what that really means in terms of pricing.

    Probably the most useful thing I found yesterday is this really cool online utility:

    http://www.scopesim.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=45&Itemid=57

    Which let me get a fairly good idea of what happens when you mix and match eyepieces with a basic set of telescope parameters.

    Using this tool I finally figured out what I think you already know.

    I was willing to throw some budget at big aperture because I know how valuable a high T factor is in my still photography lenses. I've got several Canon L series lenses and remember how much that changed my photography when I got each one.

    I'm starting to realize that it's the photographs made with simple cameras and great equatorial mounts that I am attracted to and after using the telescope calculator I inked to above I suspect I will never see anything like what you see in a photo thru a high end hobby telescope.

    I had resisted the idea of astro photography with some idea that naked eye viewing would be more than satisfying. Your cautionary advice has seemingly helped me learn a lot more about what I really needed to know.

    I'm going to start looking at high quality equatorial mounts to see what the pain/price threshold is for acceptable quality.


    Thanks a bunch!!!

    best regards,
    mike





    #7
    OldGeezer
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    RE: I'm looking for a telescope forum as vibrant as this forum. 2009/01/24 11:29:34 (permalink)
    Oh heck yeah...if you plan to do any kind of astrophotography, you'll need a motorized tracking mount for sure! Some exposures can be several minutes or more!

    However, naked eye viewing can be quite satisfying (that's all I ever did). A buddy and I used to gaze through the eyepieces of a 6-inch Newtonian and an 8 inch Schmidt Cassegrain, both on motorized equatorial mounts, as well as a 16 inch light-bucket. The light bucket got traded in for the tracking Newtonian, and that (when the fog in the area proved too annoying) got traded in for the Schmidt. However, with both the latter scopes, we were able to see bands in the rings of Saturn, the Polar Icecap on Mars, the eye on Jupiter, spiral galaxies, spectacular views of the Orion Nebula etc... Though it's true, the aperture at 6-8 inches forced us to sometimes look slightly away from faint objects to make them look brighter (averting the eyes causes the light to hit more sensitive parts of the retina or something like that). With a camera you're limited more by the resolving power (the higher the magnification, the more you need aperture) than brightness. But a camera can definitely make objects appear that you could never see on your own. That being said, going too high in aperture can be a waste of time too depending on typical atmospheric conditions in your area...if it's humid and turbulent where you live, magnifying too much (even with a scope that's capable of it), can result in shimmering images...not good for either naked-eye or photography. That's why they stick the big telescope observatories on top of huge mountains. That shouldn't discourage you though...they say that amateur astronomy is one of those rare fields in science where amateurs can still make valuable discoveries. For example, you take a picture of the same phenomenon on two separate ocasions, and you notice that one star is in a different spot in each photo...you may have discovered a comet etc...

    Either way, photographic or naked eye...there's something about actually finding and seeing things like spiral galaxies for yourself that can be awe-inspiring. Realizing that what the unaided eye sees as a single star is actually billions of suns like the one around which our planet orbits, and that the light from such objects typically take countless millions of years to reach your eye can make you realize just what an insignificant speck of dust Earth is in the cosmos. It's quite humbling. I wish someone had introduced me to the hobby when I was a kid...I can only imagine what it could have inspired me to become.
    post edited by OldGeezer - 2009/01/24 11:30:50
    #8
    moosetex
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    RE: I'm looking for a telescope forum as vibrant as this forum. 2009/01/24 22:50:43 (permalink)
    I used to be pretty heavy into telescopes when I was younger. I bought a kit from Edmund Scietific Co. to build my own 6-inch reflecting telescope. Had to take a 6-inch blank of glass and grind it down to the correct focal length (96 feet). Unfortunately, the silvering chemicals exploded (which they tend to do, btw), so I had to send it off to get it coated with the silver reflecting surface. But, all in all, it worked really well. Didn't have anything to make a cylindrical tube with, so I made it a square telescope with plywood.

    I took a lot of photos with it, and bought a synchronizing clock to move it continuously so I could focus on specific objects (what OldGeezer calls the "motorized tracking mount") because it takes long exposure time to get good results. I made the mistake one time, though, of sending some of my film to a friend in another state to develop for me and set into slides. He had done a lot of work for me before, but not for pictures of the stars. I didn't hear from him for a long time, so I finally called him and asked what the holdup was, and he said, "Oh... I threw that film away. It didn't have anything on it but spots. Must have been bad film." Lesson learned.

    Have you checked out Microsoft's "WorldWide Telescope" program that goes on your computer? It's free. I look at it nearly every night when I don't have anything else to do (it's a resource hog). Pretty spectacular.

    BUBBA
    post edited by moosetex - 2009/01/24 23:11:41

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    #9
    Crg
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    RE: I'm looking for a telescope forum as vibrant as this forum. 2009/01/24 23:17:04 (permalink)
    And what are you trying to see with the telescope?

    Craig DuBuc
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    SteveJL
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    RE: I'm looking for a telescope forum as vibrant as this forum. 2009/01/25 05:27:52 (permalink)
    My best advice would be to get an 8 or 11 inch Celestron SC GPS Nexstar and attach your camera in piggy-back fashion so that it will photograph items through it's own lens (or better yet, camera attached to the telescope as a lens) based on what the tele is pointed at from the computer catalog (40,000) such as http://www.celestron.com/c3/product.php?CatID=13&ProdID=416 or http://www.celestron.com/c3/product.php?CatID=9&ProdID=33

    Also, join the local Astronomy Club before you get anything. Nothing like getting experienced advice from people in your own area doing the same things you want to.

    I have a manual Celestron 8 in. SC and have loved using it for years and will upgrade to a Nexstar model in the next 5 years or so. Celestrons are very solid products.

     
    #11
    Fog
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    RE: I'm looking for a telescope forum as vibrant as this forum. 2009/01/25 09:41:55 (permalink)
    Mike, supposidly a good pair of binoculars is as good as a cheap telescope.

    one of my friends who does music is into star gazing, they even went on a trip to see the lunar eclipse when that was happening.

    http://www.stellarium.org/

    is a really nice thing if you don't have it already..

    In London light pollution is bad, so the only lights we see in the sky are planes and copters. Thats another story, but when mixing it does *cough* annoy me when they do fly low and rattle the tiles on the roof. When selling up I'd love to paint on the roof "if your reading this your flying too close"
    #12
    The Maillard Reaction
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    RE: I'm looking for a telescope forum as vibrant as this forum. 2009/01/26 08:48:33 (permalink)
    Thanks for the suggestions and insights everyone.

    I've learned a bunch in the last couple days.

    1) I'm defitnitely upgrading my binoculars. I've got a collection of cheapie hand me downs. My taste in optics definitely out paces my budget... I haven't decided what to do but I think wide field and hand held with good glass is a start.

    2) I finally understand the nature of the equatorial mount... I thought it was fairly simple but kept having "oh yeah" moments and now it makes sense.

    3) My darkest sky is too the south but I'm in the Northern Hemisphere... so I'm not sure how to use an equatorial mount to look south from my position. Last night was hazy and I could clearly see the glow of the big city 15 miles north of me... right where the north star lays.


    As far as imaging goes I have a Canon 5D and several of their top of the line L lenses and and a Really Right Stuff tripod rig that holds a 50 pound camera rig with ease. The 5D is one of the full size 35mm CCD sensor cameras... I hope to be able to use this camera whether I use lenses or telescopes.

    I also own a O'Connor 1030B video camera fluid head that is in my mind as deluxe as they come.

    So now I'm trying to find out what kind of budget it takes to but an equatorial mount that is in that sort of class of quality.

    That's a scary thought.

    I've already dreamed up how I might build one using Bicycle frame tubing and hi grade bearings but I can't really imagine me doing a DIY motor drive. I think I'd choke on that and never finish.

    I should buy an equatorial mount.

    In the meantime I need to learn more about using equatorial mounts in the southern sky.

    best regards,
    mike



    #13
    The Maillard Reaction
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    RE: I'm looking for a telescope forum as vibrant as this forum. 2009/01/26 08:55:57 (permalink)
    Re MS worldwide telescope... I've been thinking it seemed fascinating but I only have a 56k modem connection so I haven't taken the time to install it and check it out.

    When I use Google Earth for example, it's really slow.

    RE Astronomy Club... great idea! I've already determined that I know several members of the local club... I'm looking forward to meeting them in that context.

    best regards,
    mike


    #14
    SteveJL
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    RE: I'm looking for a telescope forum as vibrant as this forum. 2009/01/26 09:47:05 (permalink)
    3) My darkest sky is too the south but I'm in the Northern Hemisphere... so I'm not sure how to use an equatorial mount to look south from my position.

    You can look horizon-to-horizon all 4 ways. The EM's job is to help the drive-correction motor counteract eastward planetary motion accurately by setting your latitude angle in relation to the appropriate pole (your actual position on the planet), in your case the North Pole. When I look south, the telescope actually sort of flips upside down on the tripod, but that's normal. I'm also in the Northern Hemisphere. It's a funny thing to get our head around, but the position of all the stars is constant, it is we who change, based on our position on the planet and the Earth's position in it's rotation around the sun. And remember, up is not actually "up", but rather, is "out". You end up thinking of everything as a Sphere.

    You may also want to consider building a small enclosed shed/shack with an openable/removable roof. That can help you deal with the humidity.

     
    #15
    Fog
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    RE: I'm looking for a telescope forum as vibrant as this forum. 2009/01/26 11:48:22 (permalink)
    do they ship the BBC programme "the sky at night" worldwide?

    Sir Patrick Moore hosts it, he's an interesting character regardless of the star gazing.. he also plays a mean xylophone..

    Brian May out of Queen is also into start gazing.

    post edited by Fog - 2009/01/26 11:52:41
    #16
    The Maillard Reaction
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    RE: I'm looking for a telescope forum as vibrant as this forum. 2009/01/26 13:08:37 (permalink)
    Thanks Steve, I guess the setup looks awkward when you mount the telescope to look south... I think I'm getting it.

    Fog, I'm not familiar with that show.

    best,
    mike


    #17
    edentowers
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    RE: I'm looking for a telescope forum as vibrant as this forum. 2009/01/26 13:41:57 (permalink)
    If you haven't already got it download a copy of Hallo Northern Sky. It's really good and FREE! The smaller download is only 4 meg.

    Also take a look at Mike Weasner's site. It's primarliy for the Meade ETX but has lots of very useful stuff.

    S8PE, Dell XPS 720 (Q6600), XP Pro SP2, Edirol UA-101
    #18
    edentowers
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    RE: I'm looking for a telescope forum as vibrant as this forum. 2009/01/26 13:44:49 (permalink)
    And another thing Mike. Don't be tempted into getting too much magnification with binoculars. I think 8Xis OK and maybe 10X if you have a really big objective lens. Otherwise you'll also be investing in a tripod to hold those!

    S8PE, Dell XPS 720 (Q6600), XP Pro SP2, Edirol UA-101
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    The Maillard Reaction
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    RE: I'm looking for a telescope forum as vibrant as this forum. 2009/01/27 09:58:46 (permalink)
    Thanks,
    I'll check out those links.

    I finally downloaded the Microsoft Worldwide telescope but it seems to need more power than my internet computer and the 56k connection have.

    I used http://www.wikisky.org to identify stuff that my wife and I were viewing last night. It seems great and although it's slow it does run on my system.

    I stumbled upon M42 and only found out what it was later... even with my current 7x35 binoculars you could see it was special... then we looked at the rest pf Orion and then Taurus and the Pleides.

    I'm learning that there's never enough magnification and never enough field of view.

    I'm thinking I'm going to buy a nice pair of 10x70 binoculars and see If I can hold them steady... One thing I really enjoy about the binoculars is that the image is oriented the same as "real" life. That makes it a lot more fun to look around the sky.

    In the meantime I signed up at lightbuckets.com and think I'll run a few image orders to get a feel for stacking files etc when assembling an astro image.

    It was really cool to *discover* m42 by accident and then walk in and identify it on my computer... and then learn it has been discovered many times by many cultures... it seem to be a common first encounter. :-)

    thanks for the encouragement,
    mike



    #20
    space_cowboy
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    RE: I'm looking for a telescope forum as vibrant as this forum. 2009/01/27 10:02:20 (permalink)
    Mike
    You will have fun with a scope, but go for the max you can afford. I spent about $400 on one for my son a few years back. Its a 4" Newtownian. We can see the eye on Jupiter and 3-4 moons there, plus the rings around Saturn - when those things are in the night sky.

    There is no ability to make out deeper space objects like Nebulae or certainly not galactic objects. Mars is a bit disappointing too.

    I wish I had sprung for more.

    Then again, I live in the 4th largest city in the US and it is rarely dark here.

    Some people call me Maurice
     
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    #21
    The Maillard Reaction
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    RE: I'm looking for a telescope forum as vibrant as this forum. 2009/01/27 13:26:46 (permalink)
    FWIW the Hallo northern sky app seems very nice... lean yet informative.

    Space, I have a few loaner scopes that friends have brought over just so I could learn the lesson you are relating.

    I'm ordering a pair of Fujinon 10x70 Polaris binoculars today and hope that will get me started learning the big map. :-)







    #22
    Fog
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    RE: I'm looking for a telescope forum as vibrant as this forum. 2009/01/28 07:41:41 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: space_cowboy
    Mars is a bit disappointing too.




    more of a twix person myself , but yep light pollution is the thing that trashes it..when you go out somewhere rural you really notice how dark it is a night.
    #23
    SteveJL
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    RE: I'm looking for a telescope forum as vibrant as this forum. 2009/01/28 10:56:25 (permalink)
    Thing with Mars is, that even with a good scope and under excellent dark conditions, it is usually just a fuzzy red blob due to the constant dust storms.

     
    #24
    The Maillard Reaction
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    RE: I'm looking for a telescope forum as vibrant as this forum. 2009/01/30 08:52:18 (permalink)
    FWIW,

    I just received a pair of Fujinon 10x70 Polaris binoculars.... they were not cheap but they're far from top of the range pricing.



    http://www.company7.com/fujinon/binocs/1070fmtsx.html

    WOW!

    It was cloudy last night but the little time I had was really revealing.

    The binoculars just blow away the image I see with a loaner 4" Celestion Newtonian reflector I've been using.

    The field of view in these 10x70s is wider than the view I have on my old 7x35 binoculars... It's great to see a wider field, at higher magnification, with a massive amount of light coming in.

    My wife was simply stunned... especially when I reminded her that these are also for her bird watching enjoyment.

    The idea of getting a good pair of binoculars is GREAT suggestion... if you're into star watching... get a great pair of binoculars.

    best regards,
    mike



    #25
    edentowers
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    RE: I'm looking for a telescope forum as vibrant as this forum. 2009/01/30 09:18:03 (permalink)
    I should imagine that you really are more than happy with those. That 70mm objective is massive and must really help keep things in view.

    I wonder whether you'll be investing in a tripod mount though?

    Here's to clear skies.

    Phil

    S8PE, Dell XPS 720 (Q6600), XP Pro SP2, Edirol UA-101
    #26
    The Maillard Reaction
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    RE: I'm looking for a telescope forum as vibrant as this forum. 2009/01/30 09:35:21 (permalink)
    I am :-) and just posted a question on an astronomy forum asking how to remove the thread cover on these new glasses.

    I have beefy tripod legs for my video work and some nice tripod heads... I'm also considering a small jib... which I may just build.

    thanks for all the good suggestions.

    best,
    mike


    #27
    John
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    RE: I'm looking for a telescope forum as vibrant as this forum. 2009/01/30 13:30:58 (permalink)
    The magazine Sky & Telescope is a great resource for anyone interested in astronomy. Astronomy magazine is almost as good. They have web sites too. I have an 8" CAT made by Meade. Solid well made scope. But the one I have is old and has no gismos or gadgets on it. Its just a simple CAT. A Dob is great for backyard observing but is not so easy to transport. However, They are the best bang for the buck for aperture envy. Getting a scope is one that should take you a long time in research. The various types have very different applications. Then within each type they differ in speed and field of view. Oculars are a very big deal and as much research as the scope itself should be put into those. Size 1.4" versus 2" barrows can have a big difference in both what you can use and again field of view. First thing is get books on all this stuff. Not just observing guides. Understand the difference between the types and the advantages disadvantages of each. For example a refractor is the easiest type to maintain but the most expensive to acquire. However it will last longer then any other type. The more elements in a scope the harder it is to keep it all zeroed in. Thermal issues effect large aperture scopes more. And ones with lots of elements also take longer to thermal stabilize. Observing from a scope of say 8" that is warm on a cold night is no fun at all. The quicker it cools down the better. A closed scope will tale longer to cool then an open one.

    If you have questions on this please ask.

    I have been involved in astronomy since my childhood. Its the only science that respects amateurs and relies heavily on them.


    Best
    John
    #28
    The Maillard Reaction
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    RE: I'm looking for a telescope forum as vibrant as this forum. 2009/01/30 15:39:49 (permalink)
    thanks John,

    I took Sky and Telescope for a year but it seemed over my head.

    I'm real into optics... and as you can see I just opted for a twin refractor set up with a wide bright field of view. :-).

    One nice thing about the cheap Dobsonians is that you can start collecting 2" eye pieces (most of the cheap Dobs have 2" focus racks) and then get a new scope body later... I was thinking the same for an entry/mid level refractors... some have 2" focus racks as well.

    I prefer comfortable viewing with large exit pupil and eye relief characteristics so the 2" is a big feature for me.

    best regards,
    mike










    #29
    John
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    RE: I'm looking for a telescope forum as vibrant as this forum. 2009/01/30 18:33:15 (permalink)
    I subscribed to S&T for over 20 years. 2" eyepieces are not cheap. LOL My first astronomy book had a section in the back for making a Sputnik out of cardboard. BTW this is a great program for astro stuff Here.

    Best
    John
    #30
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