yorolpal
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[Implemented] Freezing and unfreezing all tracks at once...
I seldom need to do this but I did need to the other day and my little pea brain was sure you could do this now in Sonar (X3latest). Or did I just dream that up? Edit: added implemented to subject - sc
post edited by scook - 2016/10/08 11:31:00
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scook
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Re: Freezing and unfreezing all tracks at once...
2014/12/27 12:21:34
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bapu
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Re: Freezing and unfreezing all tracks at once...
2014/12/27 12:27:20
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Ah, so it can be done in SONAR. Good to know.
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yorolpal
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Re: Freezing and unfreezing all tracks at once...
2014/12/27 13:01:18
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Yup..the Duckbar reference jogged my memory. So...since there IS a way to do it with an add on....you figure the bakers will get offn their hineys and implement it anytime soon??
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Anderton
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Re: Freezing and unfreezing all tracks at once...
2014/12/27 14:19:21
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yorolpal
So...since there IS a way to do it with an add on....you figure the bakers will get offn their hineys and implement it anytime soon??
I would tend to doubt it. It's already available if someone wants it, and at least based on forum comments it doesn't seem to be a priority to most users. If lots of people expressed to Cakewalk that it was really important feature, that might change the priorities.
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randyman
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Re: Freezing and unfreezing all tracks at once...
2014/12/28 19:22:23
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I use that time (freeze/unfreeze) to get myself a drink 
A rack of noisemakers is not a definitive substitute for creativity. (though it does seem to help) what I spend my lunch time doing: (don't laugh - its just for fun!) www.soundclick.com/rnewburn
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Splat 
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Re: Freezing and unfreezing all tracks at once...
2014/12/28 19:56:33
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yorolpal
Yup..the Duckbar reference jogged my memory. So...since there IS a way to do it with an add on....you figure the bakers will get offn their hineys and implement it anytime soon??
Put in a feature request in the features and ideas forum (or if somebody has already done it please vote on their thread (calls no more than 20p per minute, additional network fees may be applied)). Cheers...
Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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brconflict
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Re: Freezing and unfreezing all tracks at once...
2014/12/29 14:32:33
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I know I've asked for a Global freeze button (is there really a disconnection between Marketing and this forum?), so that you can play back essentially the equivalent of a stereo track, meanwhile arm and record a vocal on a new track with MUCH lower latency. Yes, you can use the PDC function to remove all plug-in latency, but this doesn't totally eliminate drop-outs. With a global freeze, you could almost remove drop-out issues completely while tracking a new vocal in an 86-track project.
Or perhaps a Global Freeze, or AllTracks-Only (not busses) Freeze.
I personally don't think this should be a demand thing, but rather a sell-able feature, something to blow PT's low-latency tracking function out of the water.
Brian Sonar Platinum, Steinberg Wavelab Pro 9, MOTU 24CoreIO w/ low-slew OP-AMP mods and BLA external clock, True P8, Audient ASP008, API 512c, Chandler Germ500, Summit 2ba-221, GAP Pre-73, Peluso 22251, Peluso 2247LE, Mackie HR824, Polk Audio SRS-SDA 2.3tl w/upgraded Soniccraft crossovers and Goertz cables, powered by Pass-X350. All wiring Star-Quad XLR or Monster Cable. Power by Monster Power Signature AVS2000 voltage stabilizer and Signature Pro Power 5100 PowerCenter on a 20A isolation shielded circuit.
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Anderton
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Re: Freezing and unfreezing all tracks at once...
2014/12/29 14:55:28
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brconflict
I know I've asked for a Global freeze button (is there really a disconnection between Marketing and this forum?), so that you can play back essentially the equivalent of a stereo track, meanwhile arm and record a vocal on a new track with MUCH lower latency...With a global freeze, you could almost remove drop-out issues completely while tracking a new vocal in an 86-track project.
I think this will do what you want: 1. Ctrl+A 2. Tracks > Bounce to Track(s) [create a shortcut for this], hit Return. This creates your "global freeze" premix. 3. Ctrl-click on any track other than the premix, and they all archive. 4. Now un-archive the premix track and do your recording. To "un-freeze" after you're done, ctrl-click one of the archived tracks to unarchive all of them. Note this will also archive the premix (which you want), but also archive the newly-recorded track so un-archive that before proceeding. You can cut a step by creating a macro with AutoHotKey that does steps 1 and 2 with one keyboard command.
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brconflict
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Re: Freezing and unfreezing all tracks at once...
2014/12/29 15:08:39
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Thing is, Sonar is still having to play each track and mix all the individual tracks in real-time to busses, and then to the Master buss. So, in a large 50+ session, Sonar is still having to do so much work, you can't always (almost never) record with less buffer without drop-outs. But to have the entire mix temporarily frozen (mixed-down) to a single stereo track, or to stems, would open up so much free CPU room for Sonar. That could, in a sense, be the same as Exporting the entire project to a stereo track, opening the stereo track in a whole new project and arm Track #3.
Or, exporting Guitars, bass, Drums, keys as four individual stems to a whole new project, where you can use Tracks 5-10 to record low-latency vocals with very little risk of drop-outs at all. BUT, if you had a Global Freeze, I wouldn't have to do what I nearly always have to, described here. I could keep adding tracks to my session and breach even 100+ tracks with no sweat.
Sheesh, maybe even allow buss-freezing, where-by the function would mix/freeze all the individual tracks to the buss, so that those tracks don't play, but rather a mixdown, controlled by the buss fader alone.
The general idea is to get the massive intense CPU processing out of the way while trying to track additional overdubs. Currently, there is no excellent way to do this, and/or Sonar really isn't built to handle more than 20-30 tracks (my perception).
Brian Sonar Platinum, Steinberg Wavelab Pro 9, MOTU 24CoreIO w/ low-slew OP-AMP mods and BLA external clock, True P8, Audient ASP008, API 512c, Chandler Germ500, Summit 2ba-221, GAP Pre-73, Peluso 22251, Peluso 2247LE, Mackie HR824, Polk Audio SRS-SDA 2.3tl w/upgraded Soniccraft crossovers and Goertz cables, powered by Pass-X350. All wiring Star-Quad XLR or Monster Cable. Power by Monster Power Signature AVS2000 voltage stabilizer and Signature Pro Power 5100 PowerCenter on a 20A isolation shielded circuit.
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Anderton
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Re: Freezing and unfreezing all tracks at once...
2014/12/29 15:32:51
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brconflict
Thing is, Sonar is still having to play each track and mix all the individual tracks in real-time to busses, and then to the Master buss.
Maybe I'm not understanding what you're saying, but if they're archived, they're disconnected from the CPU and the only load is the fast bounce premix you created off the master bus. Archived tracks draw no CPU power. But to have the entire mix temporarily frozen (mixed-down) to a single stereo track, or to stems, would open up so much free CPU room for Sonar. That could, in a sense, be the same as Exporting the entire project to a stereo track, opening the stereo track in a whole new project and arm Track #3.
I'm pretty sure that's exactly what I described, except you don't have to export anything or leave the project, and with quick grouping, you can archive/un-archive everything at once with a single ctrl-click.
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brconflict
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Re: Freezing and unfreezing all tracks at once...
2014/12/29 16:53:58
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Think of it this way: When you export a Stereo Master of your entire mix, literally everything you did in the project is exported as "Entire Mix", including all automation, AudioSnap data, plug-ins, everything. So, let's say that I click a "Global" freeze button (a big star button in the Control Bar). Under the hood Sonar mixes down the entire mix exactly like an Export and copies it into memory (or in a separate "hidden" or copied track), similar to how it does with individual frozen tracks. Now, when you play back the project, the only thing that is processed to the Master buss is the frozen (pseudo-export) stereo track. All other tracks are frozen (or archived/muted) and are no longer processed by the CPU. One button. to do all this--or undo it immediately. No Ctrl+A, no undo's, no copying, or procedure to figure out.
I can track my vocals or overdubs, then un-freeze the project again with the single button, and go back to mixing down the whole session. Then I can set my I/O buffer levels higher, and continue to mix without drop-outs.
I do understand that there may be ways to accomplish this with Archiving, pre-mix, and bounce-to-clips, but when you're dealing with trying to make things simple, yet powerful, this would be a big win in my book, way beyond disabling PDC, FX, bounce-to-clips, etc.
I guess I'm looking for something more intuitive, because once you see how Freeze works, it's only a simple question of, "I wonder if I can freeze the entire mix?"
It's much easier to draw out on paper what I'm after for the buss-freezing than detail it here, but if you think of a headphone mixer for vocalists, where the bass or drums can be brought up for the vocalist (which, when frozen, do not alter the actual buss fader settings.)
btw, if you're at the Gibson office, I'm like literally 3 miles down the road from you (Trolley Barns on the river). I could drop by and draw this stuff out and see what you think.
Thanks for being a great sounding board.
Brian Sonar Platinum, Steinberg Wavelab Pro 9, MOTU 24CoreIO w/ low-slew OP-AMP mods and BLA external clock, True P8, Audient ASP008, API 512c, Chandler Germ500, Summit 2ba-221, GAP Pre-73, Peluso 22251, Peluso 2247LE, Mackie HR824, Polk Audio SRS-SDA 2.3tl w/upgraded Soniccraft crossovers and Goertz cables, powered by Pass-X350. All wiring Star-Quad XLR or Monster Cable. Power by Monster Power Signature AVS2000 voltage stabilizer and Signature Pro Power 5100 PowerCenter on a 20A isolation shielded circuit.
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Anderton
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Re: Freezing and unfreezing all tracks at once...
2014/12/29 18:43:47
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Okay, I see what you mean. The bottom line is that it's possible to accomplish the function you want to accomplish in SONAR the way it is now, and it doesn't really involve complicated keystrokes, dealing with PDC, enable/disabling effects, etc. However, that doesn't diminish the fact that what you describe could certainly be a strong selling point. I think you are correct that from a consumer's point of view, it would seem somewhat magical, and be a win on both that level and from an ease of use perspective. As to how difficult or easy it would be to implement, I would think that because SONAR already has all the needed functionality, it's likely just a matter of having SONAR concatenate several commands into a single click. Here are the downsides I see... - No matter what you do, the system is going to have to create a premix and that will take up most of the time even with a non-real-time bounce. Where it would get very time-consuming is if you were using external effects, or external processors (e.g., FireWire DSP farms) as that would require a real-time bounce. So compared to the current "roll your own" approach, cutting three of four keystroke commands to one or two wouldn't save a lot of overall time.
- You couldn't really have a "hidden" track, it would require some physical manifestation if for no other reason than so you could change the level or assign it to a bus (you might not want it always going to the master). Probably the best solution would be to have a track built into the default template (like the metronome is now), and the premix would go to that so you wouldn't have to create/locate/assign it each time.
- With any approach you're going to have to switch latency when going back and forth between minimum latency for tracking and higher latency for mixing. I don't think you could build that easily into the one-click philosophy unless there was a preference it linked to that could toggle between two settings.
So overall, I think it would be a cool feature and worth adding if it didn't involve lots of behind the scenes work and substantial modifications to SONAR (which I tend to doubt would be an issue, but hey...it's code, I never know what is or is not "easy"). However until then, though, try what I described. Aside from the time spent generating the premix, it really only takes a few seconds. Or get Duckbar
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brconflict
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Re: Freezing and unfreezing all tracks at once...
2014/12/29 23:42:32
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DuckBarred again! heh. Duckbar failed for me, so I gave it up after an hour of troubleshooting.  I think we're close to eye-to-eye on this. Maybe close enough someone from CW Dev will read it and know what's possible and wanted. I seriously believe there's no better venue for these types of suggestions than here, unless you're in Noel's office or something.
Brian Sonar Platinum, Steinberg Wavelab Pro 9, MOTU 24CoreIO w/ low-slew OP-AMP mods and BLA external clock, True P8, Audient ASP008, API 512c, Chandler Germ500, Summit 2ba-221, GAP Pre-73, Peluso 22251, Peluso 2247LE, Mackie HR824, Polk Audio SRS-SDA 2.3tl w/upgraded Soniccraft crossovers and Goertz cables, powered by Pass-X350. All wiring Star-Quad XLR or Monster Cable. Power by Monster Power Signature AVS2000 voltage stabilizer and Signature Pro Power 5100 PowerCenter on a 20A isolation shielded circuit.
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Anderton
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Re: Freezing and unfreezing all tracks at once...
2014/12/30 01:53:19
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brconflict
I seriously believe there's no better venue for these types of suggestions than here, unless you're in Noel's office or something.
Actually this is probably a better place, because people can vote on ideas and they can get more traction if they prove to be popular.
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panup
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Re: Freezing and unfreezing all tracks at once...
2014/12/30 10:14:52
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+1 for batch freeze/unfreeze.
Duckbar can do it but native implementation is always better.
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stevec
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Re: Freezing and unfreezing all tracks at once...
2014/12/30 13:31:45
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+1... I would use it. With a predefined track for the auto-export, and perhaps a dialog/preference for "before and after" latency values, it would be really convenient.
SteveC https://soundcloud.com/steve-cocchi http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=39163 SONAR Platinum x64, Intel Q9300 (2.5Ghz), Asus P5N-D, Win7 x64 SP1, 8GB RAM, 1TB internal + ESATA + USB Backup HDDs, ATI Radeon HD5450 1GB RAM + dual ViewSonic VA2431wm Monitors; Focusrite 18i6 (ASIO); Komplete 9, Melodyne Studio 4, Ozone 7 Advanced, Rapture Pro, GPO5, Valhalla Plate, MJUC comp, MDynamic EQ, lots of other freebie VST plugins, synths and Kontakt libraries
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soens
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Re: Freezing and unfreezing all tracks at once...
2015/01/03 03:37:52
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I often wish for such a button cause I doo a lot of freezing and thawing.... this time of year.  In Sonar it would be a much needed and reelly cool thing to have, also. 
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soens
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Re: Freezing and unfreezing all tracks at once...
2015/01/03 03:46:59
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brconflict
btw, if you're at the Gibson office, I'm like literally 3 miles down the road from you (Trolley Barns on the river). I could drop by and draw this stuff out and see what you think.
That would require giving away the secret location of the barricaded and guarded safe house they have him locked up in at the moment.
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brconflict
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Re: Freezing and unfreezing all tracks at once...
2015/01/05 12:35:08
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Assuming he works in the main campus, you can see "Gibson World Headquarters" clearly from the Interstate. If not, it's easy to find the other Gibson/Epiphone locations around. It's part of Nashville's Music heritage, after all--and likely part of the city tours.
Brian Sonar Platinum, Steinberg Wavelab Pro 9, MOTU 24CoreIO w/ low-slew OP-AMP mods and BLA external clock, True P8, Audient ASP008, API 512c, Chandler Germ500, Summit 2ba-221, GAP Pre-73, Peluso 22251, Peluso 2247LE, Mackie HR824, Polk Audio SRS-SDA 2.3tl w/upgraded Soniccraft crossovers and Goertz cables, powered by Pass-X350. All wiring Star-Quad XLR or Monster Cable. Power by Monster Power Signature AVS2000 voltage stabilizer and Signature Pro Power 5100 PowerCenter on a 20A isolation shielded circuit.
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thaddeusjon
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Re: Freezing and unfreezing all tracks at once...
2015/03/03 11:19:12
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+1on a global freeze button... as a selling point, it makes business sense especially when you consider some of your competition has freeze options to some capacity. To one up the competition with a global functionality... I'll let you fill in the blanks.
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Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
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Re: Freezing and unfreezing all tracks at once...
2015/03/04 01:34:24
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+1 on a global freeze button
I wouldn't want any tracks bounced to new tracks (as that would require considerable additional work to setup monitor mixes) and just freezing the master is not sufficient as I need full control over all sends for monitor mixes ...
GOOD TUNES LAST FOREVER +++ Visit the Rehab +++ DAW: Platinum/X3e, win10 64 bit, i7-3930K (6x3.2GHz), Asus Sabertooth X79, 32 GB DDR3 1600MHz, ATI HD 5450, 120 GB SSD OCZ Agility3, 2x 1TB WD HDD SATA 600 Audio-Interface: 2x MOTU 1248 AVB, Focusrite OctoPre, (Roland Octa-Capture) Control-Surface: VS-700C VSTi: WAVES, NI K10u, FabFilter, IK, ... (too many really)
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thaddeusjon
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Re: Freezing and unfreezing all tracks at once...
2015/04/15 18:18:10
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This might be Off Topic but I felt it stuck since we are chatting about new features. Question: Is Rapture Pro going to be an add on for Sonar Platinum or Pro ( or Artist for that matter ) replacing any of what you had Rapture or Dimension-wise? OR is it going to be an add-on we must volunteer to buy seperately?
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thaddeusjon
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Re: Freezing and unfreezing all tracks at once...
2015/04/15 18:18:47
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I just received the email pertaining to Rapture Pro... Any ads or videos out about it as well?
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Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
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Re: Freezing and unfreezing all tracks at once...
2015/04/16 07:32:32
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just read through this thread again ...
instead of a global freeze (which I asked for earlier) I now believe "freezing" should work based on your selection (like anything else in Sonar for worklfow consistency ... e.g. bounce, export, whatever) ...
So here 's my new suggestion:
select x tracks and click one button to freeze them all according to current "Freeze Options"
logical rules apply (of course) like ...
... if only select one track of a multi-out synth is selected and the entire synth requires freezing, so be it ... or ...
... if there's a track dependency caused by side-chaining, schedule them for last in the freeze queue ...
A major improvement would be to take advantage of multi-thread parallel processing to really speed that up (i.e. 3 instances of Kontakt 5 could be frozen in parallel) ...
I do not understand why freezing a multi-out synth takes significantly longer than playing back the entire song ... if a freeze cannot be guaranteed to be faster than real time, than there also should be a quick freeze option (sort of a "silent" playback & recording synth outs)
GOOD TUNES LAST FOREVER +++ Visit the Rehab +++ DAW: Platinum/X3e, win10 64 bit, i7-3930K (6x3.2GHz), Asus Sabertooth X79, 32 GB DDR3 1600MHz, ATI HD 5450, 120 GB SSD OCZ Agility3, 2x 1TB WD HDD SATA 600 Audio-Interface: 2x MOTU 1248 AVB, Focusrite OctoPre, (Roland Octa-Capture) Control-Surface: VS-700C VSTi: WAVES, NI K10u, FabFilter, IK, ... (too many really)
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brconflict
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Re: Freezing and unfreezing all tracks at once...
2015/04/20 12:37:18
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soens
brconflict
btw, if you're at the Gibson office, I'm like literally 3 miles down the road from you (Trolley Barns on the river). I could drop by and draw this stuff out and see what you think.
That would require giving away the secret location of the barricaded and guarded safe house they have him locked up in at the moment.
Funny you say that, I've recently heard rumors that getting an invite or access to the Gibson offices is seriously restricted these days, and for good reason. But then I never felt welcome in their Opry Mills Mall showroom, either.
Brian Sonar Platinum, Steinberg Wavelab Pro 9, MOTU 24CoreIO w/ low-slew OP-AMP mods and BLA external clock, True P8, Audient ASP008, API 512c, Chandler Germ500, Summit 2ba-221, GAP Pre-73, Peluso 22251, Peluso 2247LE, Mackie HR824, Polk Audio SRS-SDA 2.3tl w/upgraded Soniccraft crossovers and Goertz cables, powered by Pass-X350. All wiring Star-Quad XLR or Monster Cable. Power by Monster Power Signature AVS2000 voltage stabilizer and Signature Pro Power 5100 PowerCenter on a 20A isolation shielded circuit.
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theheliosequence
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Re: Freezing and unfreezing all tracks at once...
2015/04/25 09:47:59
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I would prefer just being able to select multiple tracks and freeze them all at the same time. I would vastly prefer that over a 'freeze all' button. But honestly I'd any option so the next time I have to time stretch a song I'm not sitting at my computer for 2 hours...
It's actually unbelievable that this isn't a standard feature... especially since freezing is the only way to apply audio snap time changes.
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Keni
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Re: Freezing and unfreezing all tracks at once...
2015/04/25 13:19:16
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Yes...!
With the adjusted parameter of being freeze/unfreeze selected tracks instead of all...
Simple enough to do a ctrl-a prior to executing if all are wanted...
For me the idea is that I can let the computer freeze all tracks I want without needing me at the machine continuously for each successive track...
Thus freeing up my time to do other things while this gets done...
As for the single command bounce2track for a temporary frozen stero mix to work against?
Once upon a time most computers had such limited power that this was often necessary... I don't find that so these days...
There are many DAWs that do alliw the creation of a "mix" track which is a full file export that automatically becomes such a special track within the program.... I never found this particularly useful as it couldn't be played whike tracking at the time...
Freezing all tracks when completing a project is a handy way of creating fully processed audio tracks for every track... For safety sake...
Keni
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brconflict
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Re: Freezing and unfreezing all tracks at once...
2015/10/19 11:35:50
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Update to show a sequence I'm thinking about here: SequenceGlobal Freeze all tracks but armed tracks => Input Vocal => Armed Track => Patch-Point to a listen-back track w/Compressor => Echo enabled on Listen-back track. ResultLow-latency, real mix on playback with all effects active, even the high latency effects. No more disabling FX or PDC while tracking. A top-player DAW does something like this already, a low-latency channel. Sidenote: The headers above are in bold in the editor, but do not display as bold text in Chrome when posted.
post edited by brconflict - 2015/10/19 11:46:05
Brian Sonar Platinum, Steinberg Wavelab Pro 9, MOTU 24CoreIO w/ low-slew OP-AMP mods and BLA external clock, True P8, Audient ASP008, API 512c, Chandler Germ500, Summit 2ba-221, GAP Pre-73, Peluso 22251, Peluso 2247LE, Mackie HR824, Polk Audio SRS-SDA 2.3tl w/upgraded Soniccraft crossovers and Goertz cables, powered by Pass-X350. All wiring Star-Quad XLR or Monster Cable. Power by Monster Power Signature AVS2000 voltage stabilizer and Signature Pro Power 5100 PowerCenter on a 20A isolation shielded circuit.
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Notecrusher
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Re: Freezing and unfreezing all tracks at once...
2015/10/22 22:05:33
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theheliosequence
I would prefer just being able to select multiple tracks and freeze them all at the same time. I would vastly prefer that over a 'freeze all' button.
Total agreement here.
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