In case someone is on the fence about upgrading - nice upgrade prices on Cake home page

Just happened to actually pay attention for a moment when coming into the forums, and saw the current posted upgrade prices to get to X3 Producer, so I thought I would post them, in case anyone was interested but on the fence.
 
SONAR X3 Producer Download: Site Price
Upgrade from SONAR X2 Producer $74.50
Upgrade from any SONAR Producer $99.00
Upgrade from any SONAR Studio $299.00
Upgrade from any other SONAR $329.00
Upgrade for any registered customer $329.00
 
Bob Bone
 

Ooh, this must mean....
Ok, I won't say it.
 

Skyline_UK
Ooh, this must mean....
Ok, I won't say it.

Personally, I'd be willing to bet it's more about getting people to move off X2 and X1. If nothing else, that would make support's life much easier and improve customer satisfaction.
 

Anderton

Skyline_UK
Ooh, this must mean....
Ok, I won't say it.

Personally, I'd be willing to bet it's more about getting people to move off X2 and X1. If nothing else, that would make support's life much easier and improve customer satisfaction.
 

Yes indeed. Why fix what people have already paid for in the expectation that it would actually work when you can charge them extra for fixing it ?

Anderton
 
 
FYI, Cakewalk is under new management and there have been five revisions to X3 since that change. These have fixed progressively more bugs and also, introduced new features. If it makes you feel better, think of the $75 upgrade as buying you the full version of Addictive Drums, Melodyne Singletrack, the Blue Tubes suite of plug-ins, AAS Strum Acoustic, Gobbler storage access, Tape Emulation, Lounge Lizard, and BiFilter 2...and just happens to throw in a more stable than ever program with the best comping, flyout EQ, VST 3 support, ARA integration, track colors, and a lot more.
 
The fact is that X3 had a fantastic rollout, attracted many new users, and been called the best and most stable version yet by the majority of existing users. Cakewalk can either devote their limited resources to supporting the people who continue to support the company and want to move forward, or spend those resources on an ever-diminishing number of people using a program that was introduced almost two years ago under a very different corporate umbrella and which followed a very different path.
 
I also see from the sigs here that quite a few people seem capable of making music with X2, as I did before X3 appeared. On my YouTube channel, 10 music videos were posted that I did with X2, while 9 have been done since X3 was introduced. I never felt more constrained by Sonar's bugs than I did with bugs from any other company's software.
 
The tech support comment relates to the fact that Cakewalk is one of the very rare companies that offers free phone and other support. By the standards of this industry, how Cakewalk handles support is economically insane - especially for programs that are years old. Yet Gibson has supported Cakewalk's desire to keep it free for as long as humanly possible. That would at least be easier to pull off if everyone was on X3.
 
Sure, Cakewalk could charge $99 per incident like other companies do, and enrich the coffers to hire a cadre of programmers dedicated to exterminating a few bugs in programs created under different ownership and which have reached end of life. However, I think most people would prefer paying $75 for a whole bunch of software, receive a superior program in return that has benefited from five distinct (and free) round of revisions, and retain free support. YMMV.
 
 

FWIW, I have X3 Producer and bought it happily at the intro price due mainly to the fact that I was contemplating melodyne anyway and it made it a cheaper way to go and with the ARA integration to me it was justification all by itself and anything else was a bonus. I'm also aware of and have all of the subsequently issued patches which was certainly very welcome after seeing the way X2 was abandoned. On the whole I'm very happy with my purchase, so I'm not just a basher. That said, I will be a very unhappy bunny if something as basic as the undo function no longer working correctly isn't fixed before or when then new version is released without an additional cost to me.
 
You have often pointed out that despite the change of ownership, CW remains autonomous and does it's own thing, so it shouldn't be too much to expect that any bug fixes in a new version that fix a problem from an earlier version should remain free of charge to those still using that version. To me, your comments that CW wanted people to ditch X1/X2 if only to make their lives easier came across to me as a bit....." well if we can just get people to ditch that heap of crap we won't have to waste our time trying to fix it".....hence my response.
 
 
 
 

paulo
That said, I will be a very unhappy bunny if something as basic as the undo function no longer working correctly isn't fixed before or when then new version is released without an additional cost to me.

 
Could you be more specific about what problems you encounter with undo? The only one I'm aware of is the listed history being out of sync.
 

You have often pointed out that despite the change of ownership, CW remains autonomous and does it's own thing, so it shouldn't be too much to expect that any bug fixes in a new version that fix a problem from an earlier version should remain free of charge to those still using that version.

That would seem to make complete sense, however I've learned that one of the major issues with bug fixes is QC. A good example is when Cakewalk fixed a bug that was actually inherent in POD Farm, but it seemed like a simple fix would solve it. However, although it solved the POD Farm problem, it introduced problems with other plug-ins that were coded properly and the fix had to be "undone."
 
New versions of software can be quite different internally compared to older versions, even if the look and feel remain the same. For example, if there's a change in the audio engine, then a bug fix that relates to the audio engine in, say, X3 has to be QCed in X2 with pretty much anything that touches the audio engine. The same procedure would have to happen with X1 if you wanted to add the fix to that. Again, it comes down to resources. There simply aren't enough people to do extensive testing with previous versions of programs, especially when that universe is constantly shrinking. 
 
One of the things I like about Microsoft is they continue giving updates to older operating systems for a period of time after a new one appears. Of course Microsoft has vast resources and a much larger installed base compared to Cakewalk, but even then, past a certain point they say that a program has reached end of life and cut off support.
 
One of the advantages of Adobe's particular subscription model is that all Adobe users are always on the current version of the program, so any bug fix applies automatically to whatever people are using -- they can't use a previous version. But of course, that has its own set of pros and cons.

paulo
I take some of your other points on board and understand that there has to be a cut off point eventually, but given your flag-waving links to the company saying that CW would probably like people to ditch older versions just to make their lives much easier was possibly not the wisest way of phrasing  that ? 

That misquotes what I said. I said IF NOTHING ELSE, that would make tech support's job easier. And as subsequently clarified in case my point wasn't clear, that would allow extending the ideal of free tech support for as long as possible. Everything I said was customer-centric - better support, a better user experience, and I also believe the price is such that it provides an incentive to upgrade with minimum financial discomfort.
 
Furthermore, making tech support's life easier benefits the customer. Tech support is going to spend the same amount of time on the phone every day no matter what. But if they can solve a problem in 2 minutes instead of 4, they can solve twice as many issues.
 

paulo
If one of my customers told me that I'd not finished something off properly and my response was to tell them..."hey, I'm not microsoft you know, just a little one man band here, trying to make a living in a difficult world and to be honest it's a bit inconvenient for me to put that right, so I'll come back next year and bill you for having another go, alright?" ....I doubt they would call me again.

I think a more accurate analog would be if you said "Look, even though your widget is two years old and is functional, I realize it needs a few tweaks. Unfortunately, it's not being made any more but since you were a good customer and bought the widget, you can get a new widget that's improved in a zillion different ways, with tons of free accessories, at over 50% off." 
 
I think the bottom line is this. You can't please everybody, but if you polled the Cakewalk community as to whether they'd like to see Cakewalk devote their resources to improving the existing program, adding new features, creating more content, and providing really good upgrade deals or diverting a significant portion of those resources to fixing and QCing bugs in a two-year-old version of the program, I think most, but of course not all, people would choose the former.
 
Ale, pilsner, or stout? On the house.
 

robert_e_bone
Well, kind of a bummer the thread got pretty much derailed.
 
To recap the thread I started:
 
1.  Sale prices were posted on main Cakewalk page, and posted here for anyone who missed that.
2.  If someone wishes to upgrade to Sonar X3, they will be getting a really stable and solid version.
3.  If someone chooses not to upgrade, that is fine too.
4.  I wish to convey the best of all life has to offer to all here, and anywhere else, for that matter.
5.  Please post elsewhere, if there are points you wish to convey that do not line up with the above 1-4.
 
Thanks, 
 
Bob Bone
 

Sorry Sir, Mr Bob Bone Sir, Mr Forum Host, Sir. I didn't realise that it was forbidden to respond to posts in your thread without your permission.

Its still the same price on the store that its always been £119 here in the uk for producer.

royarn
Its still the same price on the store that its always been £119 here in the uk for producer.

Actually on this page, it shows £59 for upgrade from X2 Producer to X3 Producer, £79 from any version of Producer, and £239 from any version of Studio. 

Also agree about the great deal. It's hard to pass this one up!

$99 upgrade from "any" version of Producer!!

To clarify, in regards to undo, yes there are two issues documented in the bug thread. X3E is still good product regardless..Cheers..

The role of forum host is still being worked out, and I have not posted anything whatsoever in any capacity of a forum host.
 
I only had observed the thread drifting from what I had originally posted as the thread's creator, and had only asked them to continue the drifted discussion elsewhere.  I did so as politely as I could.  
 
You are quite correct that it was a reasonable discussion - no bashing or any of that sort of thing.  It had just taken a simple post about upgrade prices I had happened to spot, and went off into ownership issues, management issues, and particular bug issues, none of which had anything to do with the intent of the thread.
 
Unfortunately, one of the posters took my request as some sort of presumably 'threat of action' kind of thing from me acting in an elevated position of being a forum host.  
 
Again, I had not done so, and to my knowledge nobody in the role of forum host has taken any action in that capacity (it is possible that it has happened in another forum, I usually only really visit this one).
 
In any case, whatever the role of a forum host turns out to be, it is not going to change who I am, and if people actually believe I would consider myself in some lofty position of power - to be abused - then I don't think they know me very well at all.
 
I have always approached my interactions in this forum from a position of trying to help those I can, and learning how to better my own understanding of working with Sonar.  I apologize when I make mistakes, I work hard at offering helpful information, and there is not a day that goes by that I don't learn multiple things from helpful folks here in this forum.
 
I can perfectly understand someone connecting a comment I post to this newly created forum host role. I AM a forum host, and do not yet know how that is all going to function.  I do not know how things will shake out yet, in terms of protocols and guidance, and lots of other aspects of that role, but i DO know that in the discussions that have taken place, great care is being taken to be very careful.
 
I think the role is intended to better the forums, and also intended to help the limited resources of the Cakewalk staff, so that they can focus on more of the business of crafting the products, though they remain in place as administrators/moderators.
 
The role of forum host is brand new, and is a tiny sliver of peripheral things that the moderators do.  There will be some learning, some stumbles, some successes, and it will all smooth out into a complimentary set of people and activities.  It IS meant to help the forum run smoothly.
 
All I can do is give the forum my word that I will continue to do my best to support the folks at Cakewalk, as well as the forum community, to the best of my abilities.
 
Bob Bone