bitflipper
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In case you've forgotten, the Sonitus compressor is pretty good
You may have forgotten about the good ol' Sonitus compressor, as I did. It seems a little antiquated by current standards, lacking some of the bells 'n whistles that have become standard features since the plugin came out in 2003 (!). No lookahead, sidechain filter, channel unlinking, M/S, auto-release, wet/dry mix, gating, or expander. However, it does have sidechaining, a continuously-adjustable knee and is capable of high ratios. It might not be the first choice for every compressor application, but it's quite capable for many tasks. This past weekend I discovered one such task that it's very good at: vocal leveling. I was playing with my recently-acquired MMultiAnalyzer. I also have SPAN Plus, which does a fine job for comparing track spectra, so I was reluctant to buy another multi-channel analyzer. But MMultiAnalyzer has a few features that make it stand apart from similar products, and the one feature that convinced me to part with the cash was its unique loudness chart. It occurred to me that the loudness chart would let me evaluate how well different compressors and settings achieved vocal leveling. I created a project with the same vocal clip duplicated on 16 tracks, each with a different compressor and an instance of MMultiAnalyzer. I could then see the volume envelopes for each of them, overlaid atop the original raw clip. This made it very easy to compare how well each compressor was doing, and to tweak settings for best results. Here's an example. The black trace is the raw clip, the red trace is the volume history after processing with the compressor in SONAR's Vocal Strip: I tested every compressor I could remember ever using for vocal leveling, and some I would never have considered. There weren't a lot of surprises; the ones that had seemed to work well in the past tested well. My longtime go-to, FabFilter Pro-C scored well, as expected. But it wasn't the best. It was in fact narrowly edged out by - surprise! - the Sonitus. Here's a plot of Pro-C (red) versus Sonitus (blue): Honorable mention goes to another surprise contender, the free MCompressor from the Meldaproduction free bundle. Some of the candidates that I expected to do well did not. Bottom of the list (in no particular order): Klanghelm DC1A, IKM Fairchild 670, Limiter No. 6 (just the compressor portion), and all of my FET-type compressors (e.g. RoughRider, Stillwell Rocket). Sorry, I'm on 8.5 so I can't test ProChannel. I'd invite others to perform the same type of test with their favorite compressors. Lawajava, I'm looking at you, buddy. Let's see how your favorite (Alloy) does. I'd also be curious to look at some so-called "bus compressors" such as The Glue, as well as some of the popular do-everything comps like DC8C. I'd be especially interested in how Meldaproduction's MDynamics does - I know a few of you have the Melda Total Bundle, so you'll have this as well as the MMultiAnalyzer plugin. On paper, MDynamics looks like the ultimate multi-purpose comp, with every feature you could ask for. The only other one that's as feature-rich is Blue Cat Dynamics, but I don't have that one, either.
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re: In case you've forgotten, the Sonitus compressor is pretty good
2014/07/14 13:29:38
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It's funny you should mention this. I've been using Pro-C as my cross DAW compressor. Saturday I was using Pro-C on a drum bus and I found my self wishing it had an "Opto" envelope curve that is more similar to what Sonitus has. I even told my wife that it was bugging me that I was missing the sound of that envelope. I also occasionally find myself wishing that Pro-C had a faster attack than 0.5ms. The analog Purple MC77s in my rack are a lot faster than that. I really miss using Sonitus Compressor, and Saturday in a search for something similar I tried Waves C-1 again... not so much, then I took a look at Oxford/Sony... not close enough to Sonitus... and not enough different from Pro-C. Then I tried the Native Instruments Solid bus... that thing made me laugh... what a waste of disk space. So, I went back to Pro-C and just left it with wishing it had the opto curve that Sonitus has. I may try a Melda with the custom curve option. That seems interesting. I would pay cash money if Cakewalk could manage to put out 64bit VST for a Sonitus update. I'd drool if I could get an AAX update. Sonitus C taught me lot about what to expect in a dsp compressor. I miss using it as my go to compressor.
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bitflipper
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Re: In case you've forgotten, the Sonitus compressor is pretty good
2014/07/14 15:05:24
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One of the things I compared was Pro-C's "opto" versus "clean" modes. The difference was surprisingly small.
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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Ruben
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Re: In case you've forgotten, the Sonitus compressor is pretty good
2014/07/14 16:46:42
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Mr. Flipper, Would you please explain the graphs? For example, from the second image you indicate the red line as being a better response - I would have thought the higher line would be better, that the higher output would be better. Or is the point that the best compression would fit between the two white horizontal lines?
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bitflipper
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Re: In case you've forgotten, the Sonitus compressor is pretty good
2014/07/14 20:24:39
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I didn't try to match levels precisely because what we're interested in is the shape rather than absolute values, and having them spread apart a little actually helps in that regard. They could have been easily made the same amplitude by adjusting their makeup gains. But because we're evaluating their ability to level volume, a "good" graph is one that's more or less horizontal with minimal level changes. So when looking at the charts above, ignore the white grid lines; they are irrelevant. The point of the second chart is to show how closely the two compressors' behaviors are, despite one of them being much newer and much more expensive.
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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batsbrew
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Re: In case you've forgotten, the Sonitus compressor is pretty good
2014/07/14 20:49:19
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i like the sonitus compressor, and actively use it (still on sonar 6PE)
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The Band19
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Re: In case you've forgotten, the Sonitus compressor is pretty good
2014/07/14 21:40:28
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Sittin downtown in a railway station one toke over the line.
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Leadfoot
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Re: In case you've forgotten, the Sonitus compressor is pretty good
2014/07/14 21:40:31
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I haven't used it in a while. I used to use it a lot. Now, I normally use Liquid Mix's Variable Mu emulation on the master bus, and the Pro Channel LA-2A emulation on the others... I appreciate you taking the time to put up the graphs. I'm gonna have to check out the Sonitus again.
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batsbrew
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Re: In case you've forgotten, the Sonitus compressor is pretty good
2014/07/15 10:13:40
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stickman393
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Re: In case you've forgotten, the Sonitus compressor is pretty good
2014/07/15 11:28:12
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It amuses me that, more than any other feature, the Sonitus Suite is why I'm locked into SONAR as my DAW of choice.
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Ruben
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Re: In case you've forgotten, the Sonitus compressor is pretty good
2014/07/15 13:35:58
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Are the Sonitus plug-ins 64-bit?
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dubdisciple
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Re: In case you've forgotten, the Sonitus compressor is pretty good
2014/07/15 13:43:09
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Theband..did you bother to read the post? Particularly the parts where he talks about how much he loves the product you posted?
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bitflipper
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Re: In case you've forgotten, the Sonitus compressor is pretty good
2014/07/15 14:36:47
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Yes, the Sonitus suite is now 64-bit.
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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Ruben
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Re: In case you've forgotten, the Sonitus compressor is pretty good
2014/07/15 15:06:19
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bitflipper Yes, the Sonitus suite is now 64-bit.
Starting when (X1, X2,?)?
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re: In case you've forgotten, the Sonitus compressor is pretty good
2014/07/15 15:40:08
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bitflipper Sonitus suite is now 64-bit.
The Sonitus 64 bit dsp Suite is Direct X, a technology that Mr. Anderton recently referred to: "the DirectX plug-in format, ... has been on life support ever since Microsoft seemed to lose interest. Cakewalk, Sony, and Magix still support DirectX while Steinberg and others do not; DirectX is what I call a "zombie format" because it's dead, yet it still lives on. Without ongoing support from Microsoft, it's anyone's guess at what point DirectX will break...or it could live forever in its zombie state. But generally, given equivalent options, I'll avoid unsupported products because I've seen too many instances of loading older projects and not being able to insert a particular plug-in because it was never updated." http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3066095 Sonitus as VST has only been available as 32 bit.
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bitflipper
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Re: In case you've forgotten, the Sonitus compressor is pretty good
2014/07/15 17:01:29
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Yeh, I saw Craig's comment about DirectX but honestly I don't know where he's coming from on that. Microsoft hasn't "lost interest" in DirectX. It's simply a mature technology that doesn't need a revision every other month. It's hardly abandoned; it's in the XBox as well as Windows Phone 8, and a new version is scheduled for 2015. Of course, Cakewalk itself could elect to drop DirectX support in some future version of SONAR. That could conceivably happen regardless of what Microsoft does. But it seems unlikely. Unlike Steinberg, Cakewalk has no motivation to intentionally kill older technologies. We can still run CAL scripts!
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re: In case you've forgotten, the Sonitus compressor is pretty good
2014/07/15 17:26:42
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I was recently reminded that a particular Dx 3d Game released in the year 2000, one that I used to contribute development too, is being installed on Win8 machines and played by die hard fans. I was hoping to enjoy 64 bit VST Sonitus so for use with the DAWs that don't do DX, but I have been told it's not going to happen.
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Danny Danzi
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Re: In case you've forgotten, the Sonitus compressor is pretty good
2014/07/17 21:39:12
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Whew I'm confused. LOL! I use Sonitus in Sonar 64 all the time. I had figured they have their own thing going on as a 64 bit plug in Sonar, no? Them and some "Cakewalk" plugs are actually the only DX plugins that show up when I use Sonar 64. All other DX plugs don't even appear. So I assumed they had 64 bit versions. If these plugs are not officially in a 64 bit format, are we really losing anything by using them? For years we used some plugs that weren't x64 while using x64 and we survived quite well. Is it really that big a deal? I have a few killer reverb plugs that nothing touches in my VST library. I sometimes use Sonar x86 just because of them. If something works....and my system isn't being bogged down....and I'm not hearing artifacts and my stuff sounds the way I want...isn't that all that matters? The only benefit I see in x64 is a little less processor activity. With a fast enough system, it's not even super beneficial to me unless you're using loads of sampling libraries. But that's just me. -Danny
My Site Fractal Audio Endorsed Artist & Beta Tester
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bitflipper
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Re: In case you've forgotten, the Sonitus compressor is pretty good
2014/07/19 10:58:08
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Mike, if a 32-bit VST works OK when bridged (as most do) then there is no downside at all to using it. Aside from the trivial overhead of the bridge itself, they are just as efficient. And of course they sound exactly the same.
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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jmasno5
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Re: In case you've forgotten, the Sonitus compressor is pretty good
2014/07/19 12:32:27
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I use the Sonitius stuff all of the time. In fact, I use the delay on almost every vocal. Delay, EQ, Compressor are used the most. The multi-band compressor is very good too. Blue tubes delay is being used more often too.
I must say X3 Producer has a generous amount of plug-ins included. If we were all honest with ourselves there is no reason to buy any additional ones including the ones Cakewalk sells. There is plenty there to compete on any level. I use Toontrack for my drums but I would have been more than satisfied with Addictive Drums if I didn't already own EZ and Superior. Let's face it, we are all victims of the hype for all of the extra products out there and I am one of the biggest offenders. But, I'm having an epiphany as I type this out...
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Danny Danzi
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Re: In case you've forgotten, the Sonitus compressor is pretty good
2014/07/19 14:07:56
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bitflipper Mike, if a 32-bit VST works OK when bridged (as most do) then there is no downside at all to using it. Aside from the trivial overhead of the bridge itself, they are just as efficient. And of course they sound exactly the same.
That's the other thing Dave, nothing seems to pop up in task manager telling me the plug is bridged. I assume teleport server would be for VST and wouldn't impact a DX right? Whatever the case, that doesn't show up nor does anything else that I can see when I run a Sonitus in 64 bit. I very well could be missing something though. -Danny
My Site Fractal Audio Endorsed Artist & Beta Tester
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Ruben
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Re: In case you've forgotten, the Sonitus compressor is pretty good
2014/07/19 14:19:30
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Danny Danzi That's the other thing Dave, nothing seems to pop up in task manager telling me the plug is bridged. I assume teleport server would be for VST and wouldn't impact a DX right? Whatever the case, that doesn't show up nor does anything else that I can see when I run a Sonitus in 64 bit. I very well could be missing something though. I noticed this also - that's what made me curious about whether Sonitus plug-ins were 32-bit or 64 bit. They have been around for a while so I assumed that they were 32-bit, but BitFlipper states that they are 64-bit. I don't know if they were always 64-bit, or when it was that they went from 32 to 64.
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Leadfoot
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Re: In case you've forgotten, the Sonitus compressor is pretty good
2014/07/19 14:29:18
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I believe scook said one time that the Sonitus DX plugs that come with Sonar are 32 or 64 bit. If you purchase the VST suite they are only 32 bit.
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bapu
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Re: In case you've forgotten, the Sonitus compressor is pretty good
2014/07/19 14:35:13
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Danny, I do "vanilla" installs WRT to cake plugs. I see Sonitus dll's in: C:\Program Files\Cakewalk\Shared Plugins and C:\Program Files (x86)\Cakewalk\Shared Plugins I may be wrong on this but I doubt the bakers would put 32bit dll's in the 64bit install location.
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ChuckC
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Re: In case you've forgotten, the Sonitus compressor is pretty good
2014/07/20 13:51:02
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I like a lot of the sonitus stuff, The Comp & the Eq, I use their reverb pretty steadily. I like the sound of it, I always seem to be able dial in what I want with it and since it has an inboard EQ in it I don't need to add one after it. It also seems less CPU hungry than perfect space or many of my other options. That being said, I also use the Prochannel Eq's & comps a lot too.
ADK Built DAW, W7, Sonar Platinum, Studio One Pro,Yamaha HS8's & HS8S Presonus Studio/Live 24.4.2, A few decent mic pre's, lots of mics, 57's,58 betas, Sm7b, LD Condensors, Small condensors, Senn 421's, DI's, Sans Amp, A few guitar amps etc. Guitars : Gib. LP, Epi. Lp, Dillion Tele, Ibanez beater, Ibanez Ergodyne 4 String bass, Mapex Mars series 6 pc. studio kit, cymbals and other sh*t. http://www.everythingiam.net/ http://www.stormroomstudios.com Some of my productions: http://soundcloud.com/stormroomstudios
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timidi
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Re: In case you've forgotten, the Sonitus compressor is pretty good
2014/07/20 20:45:12
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FWIW, the sonitus eq is pretty much the only eq I use. I've got a bunch of others but for some reason I just keep using the sonitus. No color, just EQ.. Never quite got the hang of the compressor though.
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davdud101
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Re: In case you've forgotten, the Sonitus compressor is pretty good
2014/07/20 21:45:07
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I only use Sonitus and the Blue Tubes compressors.... I use many Sonitus FX a LOT
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Bule
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Re: In case you've forgotten, the Sonitus compressor is pretty good
2014/07/23 11:13:41
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ChuckC I like a lot of the sonitus stuff, The Comp & the Eq, I use their reverb pretty steadily. I like the sound of it, I always seem to be able dial in what I want with it and since it has an inboard EQ in it I don't need to add one after it. It also seems less CPU hungry than perfect space or many of my other options. That being said, I also use the Prochannel Eq's & comps a lot too.
So true Chuck and I came to post this almost exactly. I like all of the Sonitus plugins, even the delay is very good.
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scook
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Re: In case you've forgotten, the Sonitus compressor is pretty good
2014/07/23 14:50:29
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The Sonitus suite bundled with SONAR is DX format. Since there is no bridge for DX plug-ins, there are two versions bundled with SONAR, one for 32bit hosts and one for 64bit hosts. The version installed depends on the host installation. The Sonitus plug-ins sold separately are 32bit DX and VST plug-ins. In the case of VST plug-ins, in current 64bit only installations, Cakewalk does mix some 32bit dlls with the 64bit dlls in the VSTPlugins directory, for example Perfect Space and Cakewalk Sound Center. In SONAR the plug-in header provides some clues about the plug-in format. VST plug-ins in addition to the preset drop down on the left side of the header have a drop down in the center of the header to manage presets and plug-in options. As of X3, the VST drop down name has been changed to VST2 and VST3, reflecting the different formats. If the plug-in is bridged the standard VST header is only displayed when the plug-in UI is opened while the SHIFT key is held down. Then the standard VST header is in a separate window usually under the plug-in UI.
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Ruben
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Re: In case you've forgotten, the Sonitus compressor is pretty good
2014/07/23 15:01:00
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Thanks for the clarification, scook. I notice that when I use Sonitus plug-ins in Samplitude x64 they show up as 64-bit.
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