Individual Levels

Hi all,
 
I am just thinking out loud here...well here's what I am currently doing.... it's likely not right, wrong, I am learning by doing, and of course from what I read you all doing.  I am only trying to get better, not come up with the next billboard #1 hit.  I am limited with my equipment and situation financially, so I do my best with what I got, and that isnt much.  However, I do have enough to get some decent sounds happening as my skillset improves using these tools I do have.   
 
I am currently running Sonar 7 Pro.  I am laying down some bed tracks, rendering to WAV from band in a box, real tracks, drums and bass mainly for now.  I lay out my song beginning to end chord wise and then I render wavs of Bass and Drums parts I like.  I then dump them into Sonar, where my project begins.  By the way these drums and bass parts are sounding nice (better than I could ever mic, because I do not know how), I am not sure what you all think of Band in a box real tracks?  For my situation, it's working great for now, practically speaking, etc.  Anyway, long story short........
 
Say I get to the point of dumping some more tracks in like piano, guitar, vocals, etc.  I have been using Boost 11  at settings of 6 and -2 on the two knobs for boosting my mixdown to a single wav file to how it all is sounding out in my car.  I am just wondering where each individual track should sit on it's own as far as level is concerned?  I have not been tweaking the levels on the tracks, only volume wise mixing, does that make sense?  I mix my imported wavs by volume only, panning etc.  Some here comes my main question:
 
Is it okay to use boost 11 on each track to get it as loud as possible before, then process, bounce, whatever to have new wavs that are all hot level wise.  Then begin to mix?  I am finding sometimes I am getting clipping on certain tracks when mixing.  It's frustrating because I don't like lowering things till I don't see any red clips in the master channel.  Sometimes this means lowering bass and drums that are sounding nice together, then when I lower their volumes the punch is gone.  I know I am a newbie, please help.  :)   I have been experimenting with EQing each track as well.  But I try not to over do it, as I really don't know much about each part sitting in its own little pocket to be best heard in the mix.  (I do want to learn that as I go though). 
 
I know there's likely other threads here about this, but sometimes it's like a needle in a haystack for me finding what I need.  I hope someone can give me a few tips considering my current tracking situation above. 
 
Thanks,
Kevin

Drums and bass tolerate well compression - but don't go extreme unless you know where you're heading to.
Depending on the tracks I'd say in mixing phase #1 is volume automation to even out things (this mostly for vocals)
#2 is some compression (not Boost 11) for drums and bass (and for vocals if the automation isn't enough) # 3 subtle compression for other instruments, if really needed.

EQ is another story.

Don't be afraid to highpass rhythm guitars (150-200 Hz) or all of  the lowest end (below 40 Hz) and such. Depending on the singer you can cut everything from the vocals below 150-200 Hz.

Small things like slight, narrow boost for kick drum at 50-60 Hz and around 800 Hz can do good.

If you have something like normal piano or organs in your projects, played with two hands, the lower end of it can conflict with the bass, so it may need radical cutting etc. etc. Experiment. It does take time.

Boost 11 is quite coarse tool. I wouldn't use a limiter like that elsewhere than in the Master Bus, and even there with caution.

There are other quite good tools for master bus in Sonar, like LP64.
 
Leave good headroom for the mastering stage, there's no need to go muc hover something like -6 dB.
If you see red clips the master bus you're  sabotaging your work.

And...I'm just an amateur, there are better teachers here than I am.

Do you think my real tracks from Band in a Box 2011 are as good as I think they are/sound?  Am I being tricked I wonder?   I did not buy the more expensive (audiophile) ones. 

 
 
Thanks, Guitarhacker.
I was curious to know.... should I make sure my master knob stays at zero, or can you lower it to reduce peaks?  I would assume we want it at zero the whole way of the project to mixdown, and even then in mastering?  It can be raised I see too, is this in case you can nudge it some if there's no clipping yet on it?
Also, if one track is fine, but has this one spot that clips badly, what's the suggest process or tool to clip it out so to speak.  Because I don't like to have to lower it in the mix just because of one place it clips?  Maybe the eraser tool or something lets me trim it off witout hurting the rest of the track quality?  Hmmm?  So many questions! :) 


Kevin,

I too use BB to produce tracks for tunes.

There is no need to put B11 in every track to try to get them as loud as possible. The whole point of music and mixing is to get something that sounds natural and balanced. Often that means setting a level on a certain track really low, not loud. I don't have B11 since I am only running MC4. But I don't  even try to get everything or anything as loud as I can. I try to have a balance of volume with dynamics. You can use any compressor to increase the volume, but I don't try to go that route.

I use envelopes to raise and lower levels automatically and quite often I will envelope the tracks out totally in places. Listen to your favorite genre and bands and listen carefully to how they were mixed. You can learn a lot by listening closely.

I like to put my mastering plugs in the master bus. If your DAW is able to handle that, it works fine.

Ultimately, you need to find what works for you and sounds good when you're done.

The best advice I can give you would be to go out and buy 'Mixing Audio' by Roey Izhaki. It is HIGHLY worth you buying this or a similar book. The small amount of money is NEGLIGIBLE compared to the learning you will achieve and the speed at which you achieve it (you will learn the basics faster than here on the forum). As you have mentioned, there is so much for you still to learn and you have SO many questions out there that it would take everyone here a huge amount of time to answer them all. Not that we don't want to help, it's just going to be much easier to do some really good reading of that book to get a better understanding of the whole topic and then you can come back and ask specific questions as they pop up (while you're reading the book or after you have finished).

This book pretty much covers beginners to intermediates so you should get a fair whack of good reading out of this book. At the level you are at, multiple readings will be essential. Don't expect to get it all first go. It can many re-reads to get your head around some of these concepts if you are a beginner at mixing.

+1 For the Izhaki book. I'm currently on my 3rd read and still absorbing new information.

Regarding your master fader - yep, it should stay at zero. Any level changes necessary to keep it that way should/must be done at track or bus level. I like to try and keep all my busses at 0 as well, though sometimes (rarely) this isn't possible.

To tame one peak on a track, lower it at that point using automation envelopes, though unless is audibly clpping/distorting (and pushing your master into the red) let your ears be your guide.

You can, in theory,  overload your tracks with complete impunity, provided your master stays out of the red.

It's like watching a game of Bullseye.

thanks for the book

yep.  I do it all the time.  FILE>MAKE A STANDARD MIDI FILE

It's like watching a game of Bullseye.

Yeah but this game is rock and roll, points start sometime after 2 in a bed.....

;-)

Child

kmsomethingmore


okay then I can use EZ drummer in Sonar with this new midi file....hmmm, will have to try

that's how I do MOST of my drum tracks (except I use Superior Drummer 2)

i been patching boost 11 into a bus..might not be the right way to be using it but that way i can trol even more how much i add to the mix