razor
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Input Monitoring Latency
Hey Folks-- Kind of a strange thing happened when I booted up my DAW today. The input monitoring started adding a fairly significant latency maybe 200 ms or more. I did some tests and the actual input is fine--no latency. It's only when I turn on the input monitoring. I'm using a simple mic input-and no fx. When I test my sound card independently, no lag. When I record the mic input--no lag. It's only the input monitor that is lagging--and it just started. It was fine yesterday. Curious. Any ideas? Thanks, Stephen
Stephen Davis Cakewalk by Bandlab Windows 7 Pro 64-Bit ADK DAW - (out of business 2018) Intel i7 4930K CPU Core i7 SB-E MOBO 16 GB DDR3 RAM 7 TB Storage Layla 3G SoundCard (11.5 ms Roundtrip Latency) UAD-2 DSP WaveLab 8 Pro 64-bit Sound Forge 10 Pro
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Input Monitoring Latency
2016/05/05 03:35:45
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☼ Best Answerby razor 2016/05/05 23:40:16
Do you still get the lag if you hit E to bypass all plugins?
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razor
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Re: Input Monitoring Latency
2016/05/05 10:56:12
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Sanderxpander Do you still get the lag if you hit E to bypass all plugins?
Let me test that and I'll post back what happens. Thanks, Stephen
Stephen Davis Cakewalk by Bandlab Windows 7 Pro 64-Bit ADK DAW - (out of business 2018) Intel i7 4930K CPU Core i7 SB-E MOBO 16 GB DDR3 RAM 7 TB Storage Layla 3G SoundCard (11.5 ms Roundtrip Latency) UAD-2 DSP WaveLab 8 Pro 64-bit Sound Forge 10 Pro
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Jim Roseberry
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Re: Input Monitoring Latency
2016/05/05 15:48:37
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☄ Helpfulby razor 2016/05/05 23:40:23
Latency has but two sources: - Your audio interface
- Latent plugins
The audio interface's latency is fixed (determined by the ASIO buffer size and the size of the driver's safety-buffer - which is often hidden from the user). Virtually all modern DAW applications feature automatic plug-in delay compensation (automatic PDC). If a latent plugin is inserted *anywhere* in the project, all other audio is delayed by that amount to maintain sample-accurate sync. "Mastering" or "convolution" type plugins are commonly latent (add latency). Avoid using latent plugins while tracking... or temporarily disable PDC while tracking (making sure to re-enable prior to mixing). There are no other sources of latency. Your issue is one (or both) of these.
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razor
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Re: Input Monitoring Latency
2016/05/05 16:29:06
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Jim Roseberry Latency has but two sources:- Your audio interface
- Latent plugins
The audio interface's latency is fixed (determined by the ASIO buffer size and the size of the driver's safety-buffer - which is often hidden from the user). Virtually all modern DAW applications feature automatic plug-in delay compensation (automatic PDC). If a latent plugin is inserted *anywhere* in the project, all other audio is delayed by that amount to maintain sample-accurate sync. "Mastering" or "convolution" type plugins are commonly latent (add latency). Avoid using latent plugins while tracking... or temporarily disable PDC while tracking (making sure to re-enable prior to mixing). There are no other sources of latency. Your issue is one (or both) of these.
Thanks for this. I did eliminate the possibility of the latency coming from my sound card during my troubleshooting. I did, however, only check the fx assigned to the track and the bus it feeds to, so I'm going to bypass all fx (E) and see if another fx instance somewhere else might be the culprit. I'll post my findings, but I hope the offset is the reason.
Stephen Davis Cakewalk by Bandlab Windows 7 Pro 64-Bit ADK DAW - (out of business 2018) Intel i7 4930K CPU Core i7 SB-E MOBO 16 GB DDR3 RAM 7 TB Storage Layla 3G SoundCard (11.5 ms Roundtrip Latency) UAD-2 DSP WaveLab 8 Pro 64-bit Sound Forge 10 Pro
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razor
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Re: Input Monitoring Latency
2016/05/05 23:25:12
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Hey Guys-- Sure enough, when I bypass all fx the latency is gone. So, now I just have to figure out which fx is causing the latency. Thank you so much. I sure love the Cakewalk forum! Cheers!
Stephen Davis Cakewalk by Bandlab Windows 7 Pro 64-Bit ADK DAW - (out of business 2018) Intel i7 4930K CPU Core i7 SB-E MOBO 16 GB DDR3 RAM 7 TB Storage Layla 3G SoundCard (11.5 ms Roundtrip Latency) UAD-2 DSP WaveLab 8 Pro 64-bit Sound Forge 10 Pro
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razor
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Re: Input Monitoring Latency
2016/05/07 10:27:01
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It was caused by leaving kontakt 5 player open with Session Drums loaded. Closed the UI, and latency gone. I'd forgotten the effect of such a resource hog.
Thanks again all.
Stephen
Stephen Davis Cakewalk by Bandlab Windows 7 Pro 64-Bit ADK DAW - (out of business 2018) Intel i7 4930K CPU Core i7 SB-E MOBO 16 GB DDR3 RAM 7 TB Storage Layla 3G SoundCard (11.5 ms Roundtrip Latency) UAD-2 DSP WaveLab 8 Pro 64-bit Sound Forge 10 Pro
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Input Monitoring Latency
2016/05/07 11:21:29
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Normally a softsynth shouldn't cause latency by itself. Perhaps it has some internal fx though. Likely culprits tend to be: - Impulse based reverbs (can include ampsims) - Limiters/compressors with lookahead (brickwall limiters for sure) - Linear phase EQ (usually not a lot) - Transient designers (which are really a variation on compressors)
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razor
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Re: Input Monitoring Latency
2016/05/07 11:29:37
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Sanderxpander Normally a softsynth shouldn't cause latency by itself. Perhaps it has some internal fx though. Likely culprits tend to be: - Impulse based reverbs (can include ampsims) - Limiters/compressors with lookahead (brickwall limiters for sure) - Linear phase EQ (usually not a lot) - Transient designers (which are really a variation on compressors)
You wouldn't think, but the latency continued after bypassing all fx. I thought at first that fixed it, but then realized the latency was still there after bypassing all fx. At that point I closed kontakt and the latency went away right then and hasn't come back.
Stephen Davis Cakewalk by Bandlab Windows 7 Pro 64-Bit ADK DAW - (out of business 2018) Intel i7 4930K CPU Core i7 SB-E MOBO 16 GB DDR3 RAM 7 TB Storage Layla 3G SoundCard (11.5 ms Roundtrip Latency) UAD-2 DSP WaveLab 8 Pro 64-bit Sound Forge 10 Pro
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Input Monitoring Latency
2016/05/07 11:34:29
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Very weird. Thanks for the heads up though!
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SilkTone
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Re: Input Monitoring Latency
2016/05/07 15:07:57
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razor
Sanderxpander Normally a softsynth shouldn't cause latency by itself. Perhaps it has some internal fx though. Likely culprits tend to be: - Impulse based reverbs (can include ampsims) - Limiters/compressors with lookahead (brickwall limiters for sure) - Linear phase EQ (usually not a lot) - Transient designers (which are really a variation on compressors)
You wouldn't think, but the latency continued after bypassing all fx. I thought at first that fixed it, but then realized the latency was still there after bypassing all fx. At that point I closed kontakt and the latency went away right then and hasn't come back.
That is strange. When you say you say you closed Kontakt, do you mean you removed it completely or just closed the UI? The latency you experience in your project is not tied to how much CPU processing either the algorithms or the UI require (accept to determine the minimum required buffer size in order to complete the processing in time). I'll play around with Kontakt to see if it does some weird things latency wise.
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razor
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Re: Input Monitoring Latency
2016/05/07 16:21:34
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SilkTone
razor
Sanderxpander Normally a softsynth shouldn't cause latency by itself. Perhaps it has some internal fx though. Likely culprits tend to be: - Impulse based reverbs (can include ampsims) - Limiters/compressors with lookahead (brickwall limiters for sure) - Linear phase EQ (usually not a lot) - Transient designers (which are really a variation on compressors)
You wouldn't think, but the latency continued after bypassing all fx. I thought at first that fixed it, but then realized the latency was still there after bypassing all fx. At that point I closed kontakt and the latency went away right then and hasn't come back.
That is strange. When you say you say you closed Kontakt, do you mean you removed it completely or just closed the UI? The latency you experience in your project is not tied to how much CPU processing either the algorithms or the UI require (accept to determine the minimum required buffer size in order to complete the processing in time). I'll play around with Kontakt to see if it does some weird things latency wise.
Just closed the UI--left the sampler.
Stephen Davis Cakewalk by Bandlab Windows 7 Pro 64-Bit ADK DAW - (out of business 2018) Intel i7 4930K CPU Core i7 SB-E MOBO 16 GB DDR3 RAM 7 TB Storage Layla 3G SoundCard (11.5 ms Roundtrip Latency) UAD-2 DSP WaveLab 8 Pro 64-bit Sound Forge 10 Pro
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SilkTone
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Re: Input Monitoring Latency
2016/05/07 17:05:36
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I tried with various Kontakt configurations but I was unable to get the UI to affect the latency. So I don't know what could be causing it to behave that way in your case. Which instrument(s) are you using in Kontakt? Maybe it is specific to a particular instrument or FX inside Kontakt. EDIT: Nevermind I noticed you said Session Drummer. I tried Session Drummer (the CW plugin), and all Drums I have in Kontakt 5 (DrumLab, Studio Drummer, 60's Drummer). For me at least I didn't notice any latency changes with the UIs open. I guess we will need to write this one of as a ghost in the machine.
post edited by SilkTone - 2016/05/07 20:02:30
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razor
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Re: Input Monitoring Latency
2016/05/07 21:43:19
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SilkTone I tried with various Kontakt configurations but I was unable to get the UI to affect the latency. So I don't know what could be causing it to behave that way in your case. Which instrument(s) are you using in Kontakt? Maybe it is specific to a particular instrument or FX inside Kontakt. EDIT: Nevermind I noticed you said Session Drummer. I tried Session Drummer (the CW plugin), and all Drums I have in Kontakt 5 (DrumLab, Studio Drummer, 60's Drummer). For me at least I didn't notice any latency changes with the UIs open. I guess we will need to write this one of as a ghost in the machine.
Agreed. I've used this setup before and haven't had this happen before, albeit this is the first project I'm creating in Platinum. What's really puzzling is that I'm at the very beginning of this particular project and have hardly any tracks, no automation, and very few FX. When I get near the end of the mixing stage of a project I've got way more going on--but no latency issues. Let's mark it an anomaly and hope it doesn't happen any more. thanks
Stephen Davis Cakewalk by Bandlab Windows 7 Pro 64-Bit ADK DAW - (out of business 2018) Intel i7 4930K CPU Core i7 SB-E MOBO 16 GB DDR3 RAM 7 TB Storage Layla 3G SoundCard (11.5 ms Roundtrip Latency) UAD-2 DSP WaveLab 8 Pro 64-bit Sound Forge 10 Pro
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