Input monitoring latency

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kjs00333
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2011/06/01 12:37:00 (permalink)

Input monitoring latency

It's time for me to start vocals for my song and having some major latency when using input monitoring.. about 1/2 a second delay, which is causing some major issues. I am using a profire 2626 - ASIO drivers with 1.3ms latency inside X1. I know I can hardware monitor through the profire device, but I would not be hearing some nice effects while doing so (chorus, reverb, etc etc.)
Is there anyway to alleviate this latency? I figured with a firewire interface, and 1.3 ms latency, it wouldn't be a problem. I am running 48khz / 24bit. This latency is on a dry track, new project, with no effects at all. Any ideas?

I am running Sonar x1 32bit
6 GB ram
Intel quad core I7 930i
Profire 2626

Thanks,

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7 Replies Related Threads

    brundlefly
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    Re:Input monitoring latency 2011/06/01 13:57:42 (permalink)
    My first guess would be that the reverb you are using is a Convolution type (e.g. Perfect Space) that adds a buffer of its own that causes added latency to that track and all others by the the automatic Plugin Delay Compensation that SONAR applies. Plugs that require PDC should not be used during tracking. There are several conventional reverbs available in SONAR that do not add latency.

    If the delay-causing plug-in is on another track, you can enable PDC Override for input monitored tracks to allow tracking without additional latency, but it's best just to avoid the problem altogether by avoiding plug-in that require PDC for the Mixing/Mastering stages.
    post edited by brundlefly - 2011/06/01 14:00:40

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    #2
    kjs00333
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    Re:Input monitoring latency 2011/06/01 15:11:56 (permalink)
    brundlefly


    My first guess would be that the reverb you are using is a Convolution type (e.g. Perfect Space) that adds a buffer of its own that causes added latency to that track and all others by the the automatic Plugin Delay Compensation that SONAR applies. Plugs that require PDC should not be used during tracking. There are several conventional reverbs available in SONAR that do not add latency.

    If the delay-causing plug-in is on another track, you can enable PDC Override for input monitored tracks to allow tracking without additional latency, but it's best just to avoid the problem altogether by avoiding plug-in that require PDC for the Mixing/Mastering stages.






    Thanks for replying.  There is no effects going on. The tracks are routed to my master bus which goes to my sound card directly. This is on a blank project, no effects, running at 48khz / 24, and 1.3ms ASIO latency.
    I am curious on what you mentioned regarding PDC override. Is there a global setting to turn this off?  I have never messed with this before.

    #3
    CJaysMusic
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    Re:Input monitoring latency 2011/06/01 15:12:47 (permalink)

    I know I can hardware monitor through the profire device, but I would not be hearing some nice effects while doing so (chorus, reverb, etc etc.)

    Get a cheap $50 reverb rack mounted effect and a headphone amp to route only the reverb signal to the singer, so it doesnt get printed into sonar.
     

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    Jim Roseberry
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    Re:Input monitoring latency 2011/06/01 15:19:20 (permalink)
    Is there anyway to alleviate this latency?

     
    When using input monitoring (thru software EFX/processing), you're dealing with round-trip latency.
    Round-trip latency is the sum of the following:
    • ASIO input buffer
    • ASIO output buffer
    • A/D and D/A converter latency
    • The driver's hidden safety buffer
    Thus, you've got 1.3ms for the ASIO input buffer, another 1.3ms for the ASIO output buffer, 1-2ms for the A/D D/A converters, and finally the driver's hidden safety buffer.
    IOW, you're round-trip latency is significantly higher than the 1.3ms (which is actually just the latency of the ASIO output buffer).  More likely, you're experiencing ~6ms total round-trip latency.
     
    Now... if you've got a latent effect (ie: convolution reverb or a 'mastering' type dynamics/EQ processor) assigned anywhere in the project, you add that additional latency on top of the 6ms.
     
    If you get much above 6ms, response time starts to feel sluggish.
    Above 10ms, response is like playing thru molasses.
     
    First, remove any latent plugins (while tracking) or use Sonar's global PDC disable function (mentioned above) while tracking.
    You can mitigate the round-trip latency by using higher sample rates.  Doubling the sample rate (roughly) cuts round-trip latency in half.  Of course, this comes at the expense of much greater load...
     
    This is why I harp about audio interfaces and low round-trip latency.
    If your audio interface uses a large hidden safety buffer, there's not much you can do to mitigate round-trip latency... other than doubling the sample-rate.

    Best Regards,

    Jim Roseberry
    jim@studiocat.com
    www.studiocat.com
    #5
    Jim Roseberry
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    Re:Input monitoring latency 2011/06/01 15:21:02 (permalink)
    Hey CJ,
     
    Good to see you around again...

    Best Regards,

    Jim Roseberry
    jim@studiocat.com
    www.studiocat.com
    #6
    daryl1968
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    Re:Input monitoring latency 2011/06/01 15:35:58 (permalink)
    Hey KJS - apparently pressing shift+E toggles PDC override on and off
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    brundlefly
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    Re:Input monitoring latency 2011/06/01 15:40:31 (permalink)
    If you get much above 6ms, response time starts to feel sluggish. Above 10ms, response is like playing thru molasses.



    OP said "about 1/2 a second", so I figured whatever the cause, it was more than just typical RT latency.

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