Intel Speedstep Problem...Help Please

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TremoJem
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2013/02/22 06:20:23 (permalink)

Intel Speedstep Problem...Help Please

  I am having problems with my Dell Laptop and Sonar 7PE. I used DPC Checker and LatencyMon to narrow it down to my cpu power management. So after some research I disabled Speedstep. Wow, what an epic failure. It actually got worse, to the point that the change made it difficult to do anything. I had immediate failures with any monitoring programs like LatencyMon, DPC Checker and even Window Reliability Performance Monitor. I was not able to control fan cooling either, which I saw online in the Power Management section of Windows. So it looks like I am going to dig a little deeper for my specific system to determine if there is anyone or anything out there that can help me to optimize my Dell 1720 Inspiron. It has an Intel Core 2 Duo CPU, which is a T9300 2.5Ghz 2 Core 2 Logical Processor CPU. The Dell BIOS is an A06, whatever that means. If you know of any way I can upgrade the BIOS, as it appears this is the only solution, please let me know, meanwhile I will search online for this, thanks.

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    fireberd
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    Re:Intel Speedstep Problem...Help Please 2013/02/22 06:45:37 (permalink)
    I'm not sure a BIOS update will fix your problems.  Dell only supports Windows XP and Vista 32 bit on this machine.  So, if you are using 64 bit its not (officially) supported by Dell.  May be part of your problems.

    HERE is the link to the A09 BIOS update.  Follow the Dell installation instructions EXACTLY when installing.  If the BIOS does not install properly and corrupts the BIOS the ONLY option is to replace the motherboard.  Dell does not have any BIOS recovery feature.

    http://www.dell.com/support/drivers/us/en/19/DriverDetails/Product/inspiron-1720?driverId=DDMJT&osCode=WLH&fileId=2731105441

    "GCSG Productions"
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    TremoJem
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    Re:Intel Speedstep Problem...Help Please 2013/02/22 08:31:23 (permalink)
      Do you suggest reinstalling everything at 32Bit? Is there a hi enough percentage of success that it is worth it? Thanks Brother.

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    fireberd
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    Re:Intel Speedstep Problem...Help Please 2013/02/22 10:11:20 (permalink)
    I don't want to tell you to fall back to 32 bit.   If you can work with it some more, maybe it will work at 64 bit.  I looked at a couple of the Dell drivers (SigmaTel and Intel chipset driver) and both will support Vista 64 bit.  Thus, even though Dell officially does not support 64 bit it appears the drivers (or some) are 64 bit compatible.   I used to do user support on the Dell forums (for 10 years) and It was hit or miss on whether users could make 64 bit work on systems that Dell did not officially support (same way with usupported Operating Systems).   

    First thing to do is make sure you are using all the Dell drivers.  Windows will install some device drivers but they may not be right or the best drivers.  On a new install the correct and required install sequence for a Dell is (1) Install Windows (2) Install Dell Desktop or Laptop System Software (3) Install motherboard chipset drivers (4) Install device drivers including Video, Dell Sound Driver, Touchpad, Ethernet and Wi-Fi, etc.

    The Wi-Fi brings up another point.  Wi-Fi is known to cause latency and sounds popping and crackling in many systems.  Disable the Wi-Fi in the Device Manager and then run the DPC latency checker

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    Jim Roseberry
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    Re:Intel Speedstep Problem...Help Please 2013/02/22 10:35:34 (permalink)
    With laptops, if power-management is causing large DPC latency spikes, there's often little to nothing you can do to resolve the issue.  Especially running an unsupported OS...
    If you were doing fine under the 32Bit version of Windows, I'd reinstall...



    Best Regards,

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    TremoJem
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    Re:Intel Speedstep Problem...Help Please 2013/02/22 10:36:32 (permalink)
      Thanks Fireberd, here is what I have disabled for almost a month now. MS Security Essential, Win Defender, Wireless Card, Modem, and internal audio card. LatencyMon suggests the BIOS power management. I have found on Dell's website a BIOS upgrade "A09", but it is for Vista 32 Bit. I don't know what to do.

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    TremoJem
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    Re:Intel Speedstep Problem...Help Please 2013/02/22 10:42:10 (permalink)
      Jim, I have never run under 32 Bit, so I am unsure of what to expect. I do agree that an unsupported OS is not a good thing. I did not know this at the time and am only discovering these problems now. I know it has been a long time since 2008, but I did not have time to even start using the system until last year. An unexpected three year project came up and all the band activity stopped completely. We had not even finished the studio and am still in progress with that. Money is tight all over, even in the home studio market. Anyway I am into now and not impressed with my lack of knowledge in 2008. If necessary, I will reinstall everything, or try the BIOS upgrade, as it is a flash from the desktop and seems easy enough. Let me know. I just need to stop the damn CPU from throttling.

    Purrrfect Audio LLC Pro Studio, Sonar X3e PE X64, Win7 Pro 64Bit - Dell Inspiron 1760, Sonar 7 PE X64, Win7 Pro 64Bit - iZotope Ozone 5 & Alloy 2 - MOTU Audio Express & 2 MOTU 8Pre - Glyph & Lacie External HDs - Roland A-800Pro - Mackie MR5mkIII - Shure - AKG - Sennheiser
     
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    fireberd
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    Re:Intel Speedstep Problem...Help Please 2013/02/22 11:12:03 (permalink)
    Looking at the listed "fixes" in the latest A09 (2008) BIOS update and previous updates, I don't see anything listed that would affect your problems.  

    The A09 update:
    Fixes/Enhancements ------------------ 1. Update GM965 Graphics VBIOS from 1466 to 1588. 2. Update Intel CPU family name

    The Previous A07 update (which is included in A09):
    Fixes/Enhancements ------------------ 1. Updated Intel uCode. 2. Added support for New optical drives. 3. Support new CPUs. 4. Added enhancement for thermal control. 5. Added enhancement for MediaDirect control.

    The next previous BIOS version listed is A04, not the A06 that you list.

    "GCSG Productions"
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    TremoJem
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    Re:Intel Speedstep Problem...Help Please 2013/02/22 11:35:59 (permalink)
      I too noticed the jump from 4 to 7 and wondered about 6. I will double check this when I get to the pc. I also did not see any real enhancements that looked like they added value, except maybe the thermal upgrade...to keep the chip set cool..I don't know. So what are my choices? Does 32 bit offer value for Vista? Does Win7 offer value, as it is supposed to have 70% less crap running in the background and taxing the cpu? If Win7, then 32 or 64 bit? What can, if anything, I do? This sucks, because this crap is not necessary. This stuff should work just fine. Why can't these idiots work together and make **** work? Why all the behind the scenes stuff that only causes the core of customers who need it most, more money? Damn I am mad...at myself, for not knowing this in 2008.

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    fireberd
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    Re:Intel Speedstep Problem...Help Please 2013/02/22 12:13:22 (permalink)
    Although not supported, Windows 7 is basically "Vista Improved".  All the Vista drivers work on Windows 7. 

    32 bit or 64 bit??  The biggest plus for 64 bit OS is that it will address more than 4GB of RAM.  If you only have 4GB or less there is no real reason for a 64 bit OS.  The maximum memory, according to the Dell manual, is 4GB, thus I would stick with 32 bit OS.   You can't use the Dell recovery partition (F8 at power on) to restore to the original factory condition as a different OS has been installed.  The only way you can can install is to do a complete clean install (reformat the hard drive).   
    post edited by fireberd - 2013/02/22 12:14:27

    "GCSG Productions"
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    TremoJem
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    Re:Intel Speedstep Problem...Help Please 2013/02/22 12:38:08 (permalink)
      Thank you for pointing out the 32 or 64 bit zero value added. I will go with 32 bit. I completely agree...wipe drive and start over. Should I go ahead with Win7 new installation disc or stick with Vista, as we are not sure that Vista 32 will solve the issue? I am open to all ideas, thanks.

    Purrrfect Audio LLC Pro Studio, Sonar X3e PE X64, Win7 Pro 64Bit - Dell Inspiron 1760, Sonar 7 PE X64, Win7 Pro 64Bit - iZotope Ozone 5 & Alloy 2 - MOTU Audio Express & 2 MOTU 8Pre - Glyph & Lacie External HDs - Roland A-800Pro - Mackie MR5mkIII - Shure - AKG - Sennheiser
     
    Most importantly...not enough time.
     
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    #11
    scook
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    Re:Intel Speedstep Problem...Help Please 2013/02/22 12:52:53 (permalink)
    I would use whichever version of Windows came originally with the machine.
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    TremoJem
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    Re:Intel Speedstep Problem...Help Please 2013/02/22 13:01:36 (permalink)
      That would be Vista. TNX

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    fireberd
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    Re:Intel Speedstep Problem...Help Please 2013/02/22 13:02:31 (permalink)
    If you have a (legal that can be activated) Windows 7 disc, I'd install that since Win 7 uses the same drivers as Vista.  If you would have to buy one then just go with Vista.   Just install the basic OS and drivers first and then see how the PC performs, before you add any optional software.  For Antivirus, just use the free Windows Security Essentials as it works good and not intrusive like some other antivirus software.

    Remember what I said about the install sequence (1) Install Windows (2) Install Dell Laptop System Software (3) Install motherboard chipset drivers (4) Install device drivers including Video, Dell Sound Driver, ethernet, touchpad, etc.    Although Windows (especially Win 7) will install some device drivers they are not always the right or best ones.  e.g. for the sound Windows usually just installs the basic function HD Audio Codec.

    "GCSG Productions"
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    TremoJem
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    Re:Intel Speedstep Problem...Help Please 2013/02/23 18:06:48 (permalink)
      I am confused about the "Dell Laptop System Software" and "Motherboard Chipset Drivers". I don't think I really know what you are speaking to. Sorry, for my ignorance. If you could please elaborate. I will say that I flashed the BIOS at Dell's website. Nothing has made any improvement. I am on board with either Vista or Win7. I admit that when I bought the system in 2008 I worked with a friend of mine in IT to install Vista 64 Bit Ultimate. I don't have the DVD and I think the back up restore is gone, as I can't use F8 to restore. I think he removed the partition and it does not exist anymore. I have used Dell's website to download my system SW but there has been a glitch so it has not worked yet. If I can get it to work then great if not I will seek out my friend's help to get a version of Vista 32 Bit Ultimate to do a new install. If this is not possible then maybe a Win7 32 Bit install. I am not sure that there is any advantage to use any version other than Home or Premium, as the Professional and Ultimate don't list anything that looks like it is optimized for audio streaming, but I may be wrong so let me know what you think, in case I actually have to put out dollars for this. But, if my problem is power management of the CPU and the throttling issue then will I really benefit from any of this, if I can't override this control? I mean if there is not an application that allows me to override the BIOS or change the BIOS, then what do I gain? Is it possible that this laptop is a boat anchor for my studio? I hate to think I have to shell out big money for one of the laptops on the computer page of Cakewalk. That is to say on Cakewalks website they have listed systems that are tested for this very thing. What do you think? Thanks.

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    jacktheexcynic
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    Re:Intel Speedstep Problem...Help Please 2013/02/23 18:42:02 (permalink)
    just want to point this out as a clarification: in windows 32-bit there is actually a 2GB limitation per process, along with a 4GB limitation for total RAM, of which a major portion of the last 1GB (close to all of it) when 4GB physical is available ends up reserved for system I/O mapping (big chunk goes to the video card). 

    you can give your process 3GB using the /3GB switch, but only if the application itself is /3GB aware. so you will get more available RAM for a specific process (sonar, etc.) in a 4GB machine by switching to 64-bit. however, in this situation, if 64-bit isn't supported, it's definitely not worth it. 

     i actually never had any issue running sonar 6PE within 2GB of RAM. even now, using X1 64-bit, i don't think it gets up that high - just depends on what you are doing and how many internal synths you are using.
    post edited by jacktheexcynic - 2013/02/23 18:44:11

    - jack the ex-cynic
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    fireberd
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    Re:Intel Speedstep Problem...Help Please 2013/02/23 19:14:47 (permalink)
    The Dell Laptop (or Desktop) system software isn't an absolute must have.  But the motherboard chipset drivers are.  There are two listed in the Dell downloads for your PC, one is the Intel and I forget what the other one it.  The Intel motherboard chipset drivers are key to a successful install as one of the prime things it does is define (identify) all the devices on the motherboard.  Chipset drivers MUST be installed BEFORE installing device drivers for some device drivers (including sound) will not install.  If you try to install the sound drivers without the chipset drivers on most systems the driver install will not find the sound hardware and thus abort.

    Although your laptop was designed for XP and Vista 32bit (and it is "old" technology in computer hardware) It should work OK with Win 7 and as I noted Win 7 is "Vista improved".  The "ultimate" version is really designed for commerical business users and not for home or a recording studio.  Professional has some additional networking capabilites but that is not a recording system requirement either.  There are other items in the Ultimate and Professional but their names are more marketing than actual substance.  Many people buy the higher priced Ultimate version as they assume, based on its name, that it is better and they must have it. 
    post edited by fireberd - 2013/02/23 19:17:48

    "GCSG Productions"
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    TremoJem
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    Re:Intel Speedstep Problem...Help Please 2013/02/23 20:08:34 (permalink)
      Well I am certainly going to go with 32 Bit and I do have 4GB of physical memory installed so does that mean I have to do something when I install the new OS to be able to use it? I also agree that Home or Premium versions of Vista or Win7 will work fine and there is no advantage to to the other more expensive versions for home studio use only.

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    fireberd
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    Re:Intel Speedstep Problem...Help Please 2013/02/24 06:53:28 (permalink)
    The OS will recognize the 4GB.  Actually a 32 bit OS can only address a little less than 4GB.  You will wind up with 3 to 3.5GB of useable (user useable) memory.  With a 64 bit OS, it will address the full 4GB but you will wind up with the same 3 to 3.5GB of useable memory.  The rest of the memory is reserved for system/hardware use. 

    On my old PC (a Q6600 quad CPU) with the original Vista 32 bit OS, and 4 GB of RAM I had 3.24GB of useable memory. 

    "GCSG Productions"
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    TremoJem
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    Re:Intel Speedstep Problem...Help Please 2013/02/25 10:31:47 (permalink)
      I have my 32 Bit Win7 Professional DVD in hand. I guess I am ready. When I reached out to my friend and explained the problem, he gave me Win7 not Vista...I am somewhat confident that if he felt there would be a big problem with Win7 over Vista he would have given me Vista...anyway, if I need Vista, he should have it.

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    Most importantly...not enough time.
     
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    #20
    fireberd
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    Re:Intel Speedstep Problem...Help Please 2013/02/25 10:38:07 (permalink)
    Go for it.  Let us know how it does.

    "GCSG Productions"
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    TremoJem
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    Re:Intel Speedstep Problem...Help Please 2013/02/26 06:37:33 (permalink)
      I will follow your instructions, thanks.

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    #22
    TremoJem
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    Re:Intel Speedstep Problem...Help Please 2013/02/26 06:52:26 (permalink)
      Fireberd, So, I went back and re-read your posts. I will try to re-install the Dell drivers that you suggested before wiping the drive. I agree...take a little more time and try to get it to work. Maybe disabling some USB hubs, as suggested on another forum. But, most importantly, I will re-install the Dell drivers and Laptop System SW. I think I can go to Dell and type in my Service Tag number and they will list all the drivers and then I can go thru and install them one at a time. This might help or not. Thanks.

    Purrrfect Audio LLC Pro Studio, Sonar X3e PE X64, Win7 Pro 64Bit - Dell Inspiron 1760, Sonar 7 PE X64, Win7 Pro 64Bit - iZotope Ozone 5 & Alloy 2 - MOTU Audio Express & 2 MOTU 8Pre - Glyph & Lacie External HDs - Roland A-800Pro - Mackie MR5mkIII - Shure - AKG - Sennheiser
     
    Most importantly...not enough time.
     
    www.studiocat.com
    jim@studiocat.com
     
    #23
    fireberd
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    Re:Intel Speedstep Problem...Help Please 2013/02/26 08:35:50 (permalink)
    Reinstalling and then "wiping" the disc won't do you any good.  When you reformat the hard drive everything is lost.  You start off with a "clean slate". 

    You can download whatever you need from Dell and either burn them to a disc or to a USB flash drive for installing later after you install Win 7.  You may not need everything as Win 7 will install a lot of drivers, however, you will need at a minimum the Dell sound driver.  Check what is and isn't working before installing the various Dell drivers. 

    DO NOT use the Dell download manager, download each needed driver individually.  The download manager has lots of problems.

    "GCSG Productions"
    Franklin D-10 Pedal Steel Guitar (primary instrument). Nashville Telecaster, Bass, etc. 
    ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero M/B, i7 6700K CPU, 16GB Ram, SSD and conventional hard drives, Win 10 Pro and Win 10 Pro Insider Pre-Release
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    #24
    TremoJem
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    Re:Intel Speedstep Problem...Help Please 2013/02/26 08:38:22 (permalink)
      I understand that. I will first try to update any Dell drivers to get the current system to work. Then if this fails I will move forward with a new install and, of course, follow your instructions to save drivers to a thumb drive and install after the OS installs. Sorry for any confusion and thanks again.

    Purrrfect Audio LLC Pro Studio, Sonar X3e PE X64, Win7 Pro 64Bit - Dell Inspiron 1760, Sonar 7 PE X64, Win7 Pro 64Bit - iZotope Ozone 5 & Alloy 2 - MOTU Audio Express & 2 MOTU 8Pre - Glyph & Lacie External HDs - Roland A-800Pro - Mackie MR5mkIII - Shure - AKG - Sennheiser
     
    Most importantly...not enough time.
     
    www.studiocat.com
    jim@studiocat.com
     
    #25
    Cactus Music
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    Re:Intel Speedstep Problem...Help Please 2013/02/26 13:57:12 (permalink)
    As Fireberd say's download all the dell 32 bit W7 drivers and put them on a USB stick ( or? )  You can always use any other computer later but unless you have the OME disk you won't have any dell drivers. WIndows will use generic drivers so it might or might not have proper LAN or Video drivers.  I'm glad your going the route I suggested in the other thread. W7 Is the way to go,  But ....it still might not deal with a power management issue as Jim has pointed out the same as I, Sometimes they are burned into the system and just not easily removed. Let's cross our fingers. 

    On my laptops I've used, you could disable power management in device manager.. it is sometimes called "Microsoft battery management" 

    Johnny V  
    Cakelab  
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    3 Desktops and 3 Laptops W7 and W10
     http://www.cactusmusic.ca/
     
     
    #26
    TremoJem
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    Re:Intel Speedstep Problem...Help Please 2013/02/27 06:33:56 (permalink)
      Cactus Music, I was incorrect in my original assumptions. The CPU is, indeed, running without idling, according to CPU-Z. I am cruising at a cool 2.499 Ghz. I also downloaded Throttlestop and that too aligns with CPU-Z and it's readings. So that mean other factors are at work and I don't know what they are. I am going to go to Dell and re-download the drivers to see if that removes the or fixes the problems. If not, I will wipe the drive and do a new install of Win7 32 Bit. The drivers on Dell's page are old, but they are for my pc so they should work. As you mentioned and Fireberd, the Win7 drivers may not be suitable for this old machine, but the software, according to Windows should work fine. When you say Dell Win7 drivers, what exactly do you mean? I thought I was going to the support page and supplying my service tag number and then downloading the drivers that originally came with my machine, except updated by Dell, some of which are still years old. Is there another page I need to be going to for Dell Win7 32 Bit drivers for my machine, which I would not think Dell would even support this far out from the original build date? Thanks.
    post edited by TremoJem - 2013/02/27 06:37:12

    Purrrfect Audio LLC Pro Studio, Sonar X3e PE X64, Win7 Pro 64Bit - Dell Inspiron 1760, Sonar 7 PE X64, Win7 Pro 64Bit - iZotope Ozone 5 & Alloy 2 - MOTU Audio Express & 2 MOTU 8Pre - Glyph & Lacie External HDs - Roland A-800Pro - Mackie MR5mkIII - Shure - AKG - Sennheiser
     
    Most importantly...not enough time.
     
    www.studiocat.com
    jim@studiocat.com
     
    #27
    fireberd
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    Re:Intel Speedstep Problem...Help Please 2013/02/27 08:22:35 (permalink)
    There are no official Dell Windows 7 drivers.  Dell only supports XP and Vista 32 on this model.  However, the Vista 32 bit drivers are applicable for Win 7 32 bit, since Win 7 is just an improved version of Vista.  I haven't run across any Vista driver that did not work in Win 7 (except those covered by "murphy's law").




    "GCSG Productions"
    Franklin D-10 Pedal Steel Guitar (primary instrument). Nashville Telecaster, Bass, etc. 
    ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero M/B, i7 6700K CPU, 16GB Ram, SSD and conventional hard drives, Win 10 Pro and Win 10 Pro Insider Pre-Release
    Sonar Platinum/CbB. MOTU 896MK3 Hybrid, Tranzport, X-Touch, JBL LSR308 Monitors,  
    Ozone 5,  Studio One 4.1
    ISRC Registered
    Member of Nashville based R.O.P.E. Assn.
    #28
    TremoJem
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    Re:Intel Speedstep Problem...Help Please 2013/02/27 10:31:34 (permalink)
      Thanks Brother. So install of the drivers for my equipment based on Dell's service tag for my machine and hope for success. LOL

    Purrrfect Audio LLC Pro Studio, Sonar X3e PE X64, Win7 Pro 64Bit - Dell Inspiron 1760, Sonar 7 PE X64, Win7 Pro 64Bit - iZotope Ozone 5 & Alloy 2 - MOTU Audio Express & 2 MOTU 8Pre - Glyph & Lacie External HDs - Roland A-800Pro - Mackie MR5mkIII - Shure - AKG - Sennheiser
     
    Most importantly...not enough time.
     
    www.studiocat.com
    jim@studiocat.com
     
    #29
    fireberd
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    Re:Intel Speedstep Problem...Help Please 2013/02/27 16:14:27 (permalink)
    Yes, but one "gotcha".  Windows 7 will install some drivers.  Some will be later (better) drivers than what is on the Dell site, some will work but not the correct driver, such as the sound which requires the Dell sound driver, and some devices will require the Dell drivers. 

    I can't tell you which ones will be required, other than the Sound driver for proper operation.  Install Win 7 and then see what doesn't work or doesn't work correctly and go from there.

    "GCSG Productions"
    Franklin D-10 Pedal Steel Guitar (primary instrument). Nashville Telecaster, Bass, etc. 
    ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero M/B, i7 6700K CPU, 16GB Ram, SSD and conventional hard drives, Win 10 Pro and Win 10 Pro Insider Pre-Release
    Sonar Platinum/CbB. MOTU 896MK3 Hybrid, Tranzport, X-Touch, JBL LSR308 Monitors,  
    Ozone 5,  Studio One 4.1
    ISRC Registered
    Member of Nashville based R.O.P.E. Assn.
    #30
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