AnsweredIs It Music?

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synkrotron
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2017/10/16 13:09:52 (permalink)

Is It Music?



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#1
Mesh
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Re: Is It Music? 2017/10/16 14:26:18 (permalink)
I like his piano playing and yes, that is music. The other "instrument" needed a cowbell to give it credibility.
 
 

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Re: Is It Music? 2017/10/16 14:38:33 (permalink)
Music is notes organized in time, and the definition of, "music," is subjective to one's personal taste as well as societies acceptance of particular artist.  

I don't consider, "Imagine Dragons to be music by any stretch  of the imagination - pun intended; however, society, at least in the sense of its own pop art, most certainly considers Imagine Dragons a viable band, and to be music."

Likewise, I don't consider this, "over-intellectual, out of shape guy, with some really nasty looking hair to be making any music, simply because I would argue that he is not organizing notes in time with any skill," but again there are several people who probably consider him a genius.

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Re: Is It Music? 2017/10/16 15:21:13 (permalink)
Linear Phase

Likewise, I don't consider this, "over-intellectual, out of shape guy, with some really nasty looking hair to be making any music,




That's just Weird Al's non-musical brother
 
 

post edited by Mesh - 2017/10/16 16:54:15

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Re: Is It Music? 2017/10/16 16:19:44 (permalink)
I swear that's the way I sound playing piano after a 6 pack of amber beer. It's true! I Swear!

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Re: Is It Music? 2017/10/17 14:33:43 (permalink)
Hi,
 
I like how he can jazz up Beethoven so well. It's really very good.
 
I agree with his words on boring on music and the composer, specially as it shows up these days within a DAW format, and some folks actually thinking that the DAW is the creative tool, not the person, and they can only improve the piece of music, by fixing details on the DAW, not in your own mind and physical playing, by adjusting the movements that you do and use.
 
As for is it music?
 
The definition of the word has gotten so confused with "notes" and "sound", that in the end, the ability to define it all has gotten totally off kilter. Nowadays, it's all about the "sound", and some of it is not really original, or even interesting ... I like to say, that the only proof you need is to pull the PLUG and listen to it. It won't stand up to any of us at all.
 
To me, that is the major difference. You can unplug many of the best things you have ever heard and they still stand up ... Stairway to Heaven, Comfortably Numb ... not a problem. But some other stuff, is hard to appreciate when unplugged, and it is not enjoyable at all.
 
Thus, noise and sound effects have more "music" in them that is interesting ... as an exercise, go outside and listen to BIRDS doing their thing ... it's an incredible cacophony, none of it in sync with anything except itself. And it still stands up, and sounds beautiful when you hear it ... or wind sounds against a mountain, if you have never heard that thunder ... and its feedback and echo. And the composer in there is NATURE ... but we do not consider that "music", and in many ways that is the basic foundation of the 20th century exercises in creating and defining new musics everywhere.

Music is not about notes and chords! My poem is not about the computer or monitor or letters! It's about how I was able to translate it from my insides! 
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Re: Is It Music? 2017/10/17 15:36:31 (permalink)
I guess I don't really care if it's "music" or not.  Kind of a rabbit hole, really. 
 
I like the direct relationship between a musician and an instrument - using the instrument to "speak" and create artistic tonal organization.  Each piece, or track or layer, being another voice from a person speaking through their bones into a raw instrument that would just as soon let you make repugnant, atrocious tones, just as proudly, if you didn't play it "right".  That's what I enjoy. 
 
I don't really have much interest in electronically sourced sound.  It doesn't really move me, at all.  In fact, electronic percussion is the most irritating sound of all.  I skip sections on my favorite records that have it.  As a Radiohead fan, for instance...it's difficult to get through it, to enjoy the instrumentation parts. 
 
Yet, I love using FX on captured audio - heavily, too.  I can't explain it.  Nothing cooler than some crazy guitar effect coloring the mood of a piece.  Saturated effects on vocals are especially awesome.
 
So..I don't know.  On the one hand, a 14 year old who plays with software in their free time and sings pop songs off the radio is never going to earn the same respect from me as a 14 year old who has committed to a cello and practices their butt off just to master Mary Had a Little Lamb.  On the other hand...I know musicians who spend most of their time dragging and dropping, synth editing and etc...and they understand music better than anyone I know.   

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Re: Is It Music? 2017/10/17 16:57:51 (permalink) ☼ Best Answerby synkrotron 2017/10/17 17:29:00
There's only two types of music:  Music I like and music I don't like.

 
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Re: Is It Music? 2017/10/17 17:30:38 (permalink)
craigb
There's only two types of music:  Music I like and music I don't like.




Now, who has said that in the past? Sounds like it should be a famous quote... Just can't put my finger on it

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Re: Is It Music? 2017/10/17 17:31:41 (permalink)
Some interesting insights here... Keep 'em coming
 

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Re: Is It Music? 2017/10/17 17:39:37 (permalink)
Just for fun and to tweak some people's sensibilities, I'll postulate that whether something is interesting and enjoyable music tends to come from what those around you preferred when you were very young, then what your friends like followed by your own experimentation.  Then, of course, the intellectual level of the person helps shape what type of music they will prefer as well, ranging from rap to classical. 

 
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Re: Is It Music? 2017/10/17 18:15:20 (permalink)
bayoubill
I swear that's the way I sound playing piano after a 6 pack of amber beer. It's true! I Swear!


bayoubill
I swear that's the way I sound playing piano after a 6 pack of amber beer. It's true! I Swear!


Bill has anyone said to you that you remind them of frankenstein?  You have an uncanny resemblance to boris karloff's incarnation.



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Re: Is It Music? 2017/10/17 18:33:28 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Mesh 2017/10/18 13:16:15
craigbI'll postulate that whether something is interesting and enjoyable music tends to come from what those around you preferred when you were very young, then what your friends like followed by your own experimentation. 



Interesting...
 
Made me think back over the last fifty years or so... I seemed to like some things that came over the radio waves back in the mid to late 60's. Silence Is Golden is something that, for some strange reason, sticks in my head, although it is getting on for fifty years since I listened to that or anything like it.
 
And then there was the TV... We had one, not many did, B&W, which my dad had to bang on the side every now and then for some reason. The most interesting music I can remember from TV shows back then was Doctor Who and the BBC Radiophonic Workshop.
 
I remember my dad getting a Rigonda "entertainment centre," for want of a better term. It had a radio but, more importantly it played records. He liked stuff like New Seekers and Roger Whitaker... Never really "got into" that, as I remember, but he also had an LP that had some Greek music on it, I think, and I enjoyed that, at the time. He had 1812 Overture and I really did like that one.
 
Then when I was ten I visited the Planetarium in London with school. The weekend cost 11 guineas... Anyway, this was the first time that I had ever heard Mars, Bringer of War and I plucked up enough courage to ask a grown-up, "what was that music." I badgered my dad about it and my first LP, ever, was Planet Suite. At the same time, because I had an album bought me my younger brother asked for Double Barrel by Dave and Ansel Collins.
 
By the time I was eleven-ish I was given a simple cassette player for Christmas and at the same time I was given a Pentangle album. Can't remember which one, but I wasn't that keen and didn't listen to it much.
 
Funny thing was, I suppose, back then, no one asked, "what album would you like," so it was a bit hit and miss. And we didn't get any pocket money at that time, so the only time we would get anything at all was on birthdays and at Christmas.
 
Anyway, some time after that, one of my uncles bought me Meddle. I mean, Pink Floyd! Who on earth were they? Never heard of them at all! But, wow! What a journey that was... My first ever one-side-long song, and I was blown away by it, I seem to remember at the time.
 
Then one Christmas I was given Led Zepp Vol II... Another mind blowing experience for a young kid who was only normally exposed to what was being played by Jimmy Young on Radio 2.
 
Memories a bit hazy still, but my brother and I started to get a bit of pocket money and, somewhere in the equation we got our first record player. Don't ask me what it was, I just can't remember. But it played records, and sounded a damn sight more betterer than a blummin' mono tape player.
 
So, me and my brother started buying our own records, which, at the time was limited to singles, based on cost mainly... Couldn't afford albums!
 
My staple, at the time, was The Sweet, with a bit of Cozy Powell and Suzie Quatro.
 
By thirteen me and my mates were chatting a bit more about some of the more "off the wall" music, or, non-pop stuff, if you like. Some I liked and some I didn't...
 
Then I was watching the TV one Sunday evening and a religious program came on. The theme music was "electronic" although I wasn't aware of that being a particular genre at the time. Unusually, the music creator was credited at the end of the show and it was Tangerine Dream. I decided right then and there that I needed to know more.
 
For the first time since having my musical nerves piqued by electronic music from the Doctor Who TV series, back in the mid-sixties, I was now hearing similar stuff in this Tangerine Dream music. Time to start saving up...
 
Then Kraftwerk came along with Autobahn... Got that...
 
I was developing more of a taste for the avant-garde, I think you can call it that. Yes, Autobahn was quite "poppy" but not all of the Kraftwerk stuff was. And early TD stuff was definitely an interesting experience.
 
 
Sorry! What was the question? Getting carried away there for a bit... Need to draw a line under this by saying, yeah, there may be something to what you say, Craig, but I think that, for me at least, I was more influenced by my own experimentations than anything else. If anything, I think I may have subconsciously shunned music listened to by my mates, certainly in my teens anyway....

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Re: Is It Music? 2017/10/17 19:00:35 (permalink)
Enjoyed what you just postulated Andy. 
 
The part about your Dad buying a Hi Fi,  We had this Electrohome unit and I grew up learning how to play along with the living strings and Tijuana Brass. I think the Living Strings is why to this day I can't stand to hear strings in any song!!

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Re: Is It Music? 2017/10/17 19:11:34 (permalink)
Cactus Music
Enjoyed what you just postulated Andy. 
 
The part about your Dad buying a Hi Fi,  We had this Electrohome unit and I grew up learning how to play along with the living strings and Tijuana Brass. I think the Living Strings is why to this day I can't stand to hear strings in any song!!





Haha! Yeah, now that you mention it, my dad also had some "Living Strings" stuff!
 
He would also by "Music For Pleasure" albums and compilations of songs performed by cover artists! Oh lordy! How could I forget that!

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Re: Is It Music? 2017/10/17 19:18:31 (permalink)
I would like to add to my earlier statement that that’s what I sound like to me. I’d probably add Beethoven after a few beers after er that

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Re: Is It Music? 2017/10/18 00:17:27 (permalink)
I made it all the way to the boards being sawed into pieces.
 
IMO, it is music if music can exist without no rhythm, harmony or melody.  The dude makes some interesting points, but ...

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Re: Is It Music? 2017/10/18 01:17:21 (permalink)
I liked the lady in the front row checking her cellphone at 7:16. What a great defense mechanism from the firehose of ego.
 
Kudos to his "boring" piano jazz.
 
I would say that music has forever been the imposition of structure and order upon the chaotic sounds of the universe. In that light, he's moving backwards, not forwards. 
 
cool vid though! His tenets are interesting but could be offered with greater effect, and humility.
 

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Re: Is It Music? 2017/10/18 11:59:38 (permalink)
Hi,
 
Mine was a bit different ... by 10 I was already familiar with Beethoven, Tchaikovsky, Mahler, Mozart and a few other things, like Gilbert Becaud, Edith Piaf, Maria Betania, Roberto Carlos, Amalia Rodrigues, Puccini, Verdi, Mussorgsky (that Boris opera ... my gawd that low voice! M it was I think) and then in Brazil, as one would only hear some radio, got to hear The Beatles and then The Rolling Stones and right after that Herman and the Hermits ... and things like Maurice Ravel or Bela Bartok, or Carl Orff were not exactly foreign and strange to my mind ... 
 
And then I came to America in October 1965 ... within a week, Bob Dylan (Blonde on Blonde - loved the attitude), Paul Butterfield Blues Band (first) and then ... radio was available in Madison, WI ... and off to the races!
 
Already it was impossible to define "music" since the classical version was considered composed, and the rock/pop version was not quite as composed and it was more shaped by the attitude and beat, which classical music, is not usually, unless you are a figurine in a movie hitting a stick on the ground!
 
By the time I heard synthesizers, I disliked intensely W. Carlos, and thought it a joke, things were getting weird ... GH's Lectronic Sound got picked up for 75 cents on the used bin, and I started questioning ... where's the music in it ... and all it was for me, was ... where are the soft melodies that we end up considering music, and the rest is not?
 
By the late 60's theater and performance arts were very HEAVILY into motion, speech and the articulation/communications on stage. As a massive example, it was in the 70's that I saw the National Theater of the Deaf, the ETC La Mamma Group, The Living Theater, Joseph Chaikan, Charles Bukowski and many other experimental things ... and today? It's like these do not exist at all ... and your definition of the arts and music SUFFERS ... you do not see different things that go way out there. Here, for me, the likes of Mick Jagger, Robert Plant and Roger Daltrey became an extension of that material with their vocal abilities and the idea of making a song come alive and you feel it quite a bit more than just an Italian aria, which by that time was already boring and sad, and over done ... except for Gigli's Tosca ... you got to hear that ... makes you cry!
 
I don't think that a "definition" is possible, since there is no criteria to even create an idea that we call "music" in the first place. And maybe that is the problem ... "music" is NOTHING but an IDEA in our heads ... and the rest is talk! Or notes! Or sounds!

Music is not about notes and chords! My poem is not about the computer or monitor or letters! It's about how I was able to translate it from my insides! 
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Re: Is It Music? 2017/10/18 12:48:46 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby craigb 2017/10/18 15:04:37
I like anything that's good, always did. It can be a perfect 3 minute pop song, an ambient soundscape, a 20 minute prog epic, some classical, folk, country..really doesn't matter as long as it 'speaks' to me. I can't really define why it does or it doesn't, and I don't bother trying.

 
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Re: Is It Music? 2017/10/18 13:37:55 (permalink)
I'm with James on that "anything good"......genre's don't matter much as long it's pleasing to my ear. I'm of course partial to melody, harmony, and do like a bit of rhythm (you know, to get yer head boppin....lol), but it's not necessary......heck I even like listening to ambient drones!!
 
Some "music" moves me more than others and once again, I agree with James.....I don't bother trying to figure out why. I just look for inspiration in sounds.

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Re: Is It Music? 2017/10/18 20:03:56 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby synkrotron 2017/10/18 20:09:59

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Re: Is It Music? 2017/10/18 22:35:57 (permalink)
jamesg1213
I like anything that's good, always did. It can be a perfect 3 minute pop song, an ambient soundscape, a 20 minute prog epic, some classical, folk, country..really doesn't matter as long as it 'speaks' to me. I can't really define why it does or it doesn't, and I don't bother trying.


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