Is MIDI Indicator Supposed to Look Like This?

Images must be uploaded to a hosting service such as imgur.com and then linked to a post. When adding an image make sure to use the link to the image (IOW the url will have an image extension such as png or jpg) and not the page containing the image.

OK. Ignore what I said about the audio tracks. I know MIDI does NOT play sounds, it only triggers them. So, when I create a stnd MIDI track (NOT Instrument trk) I can see the Sonar MIDI track's meter responding to my MIDI signals, but no sound is produced.  For the same token, that same MIDI track WILL record MIDI notes/events, but when I play back that clip again, no sound is produced. ONLY when I create an extra audio track (think back to when Real Guitar came out and you had to create a MIDI AND Audio track) for the separate Audio signal to go to the Analog Inputs on my interface do I hear any sound.  So, what that tells me is that my keyboard s'ware is properly telling the MIDI event to trigger a sound, AND the sound is obviously being fed all the way through in order to make sound.  That shows me the problem is NOT in my keyboard, or cables, OR interface.  However, I'll admit that there could be a MIDI glitch in the interface between converting the MIDI to Audio.
 
But here's what makes me think it's Sonar. The MIDI indicator that's RIGHT beside the audio engine light in the Time Display window, THAT MIDI indicator has the slash bar across it like you see on traffic signs "DON'T GO HERE!", THAT MIDI indicator is grayed out, and will NOT work, or reset by ANY means.  You can click on it til the cows come home and the Audio engine stays on, but never the MIDI engine.  And BTW, there IS a dialogue box where you can determine which MIDI channels are active.  I can't remember exactly how you get there, but I have mine set so that when you're recording MIDI data on a track that ONLY THAT track will record anything, and your instrument HAS to be set on that MIDI channel.  Sounds like a pain, but it actually forces organization when things get hectic.
 
Hope that clears things up a bit.
KC

Wait, you are trying to record the internal sounds from your keyboard (synth) into SONAR, correct?  In that case using MIDI is not the way to go but only the keyboard audio/analog outputs to your interface to your PC and then in SONAR via an audio track. 
 
Alternatively, you can record the MIDI data as you are playing your keyboard with its MIDI out routed to your PC in some fashion, which I believe you have already, then to a MIDI track.  However, don't expect sound coming out of that MIDI track even if you have a corresponding audio track for that MIDI track. You must have a softsynth inserted in SONAR with the keyboard's MIDI routed to it in order to hear the MIDI playback or have the MIDI signal in SONAR routed out to your keyboard and then route that audio back into SONAR.   As mentioned in my first paragraph, there is no point in routing MIDI from SONAR back to your keyboard if it is already connected via the audio/analog route.  That will only trigger "ghost' notes since the MIDI coming back to your keyboard will retrigger the notes you already played into the audio channel but with latency with respect to your performance.  Unless, as one of my keyboards has, turn off the audio playback on your keyboard (if it has speakers) and then you can record your performance which is still routed via the keyboard's analog outputs to your interface. This way you will only hear your performance from SONAR's output.
 
This might sound a little arcane but image if your keyboard was not a keyboard but a rackmount synth and you want to playback the MIDI (in SONAR) through the rackmount synth.  Then you would route the MIDI from SONAR to the synth (with the MIDI in SONAR as the originating source).  So, unless you want to hear and record both your keyboard's sounds and a softsynth in SONAR, then insert a softsynth in SONAR route your MIDI to that track.  If you just want to record the sound of your keyboard into SONAR and the MIDI data of your performance, then just route the analog outs of your keyboard to SONAR (via your interface, of course) and route the MIDI out to your PC via your interface or USB (which you did not answer) appropriately.  Don't bother routing the MIDI track in SONAR back to your keyboard since you already have it connected via analog connections.
 
Ugh, I hope I covered all possibilities here.  Hit me back if I missed it.
 
Kind regards,
 
tecknot

No problem King, but with all due respect, SONAR always required both a MIDI track and an audio track (to hear the audio playback of the MIDI) until the intervention of the Simple track option (or rely on the default playback through TTS1).  You could insert just a MIDI track, but you also needed to route the output of the MIDI track to either a softsynth or a hardware synth and then setting the input in an audio track from the synth's output to hear the playback.  If you are just routing your MIDI track out to your keyboard (say in a project without any audio tracks) and it is playing back the audio then you are only hearing from your keyboard speakers and not SONAR.  However, from what I read in your post in bold below, you need an audio track to hear the MIDI playback in SONAR as always (unless you are routing the audio from your keyboard to SONAR regardless of the MIDI).  I believe SONAR used to give you the option to create a corresponding audio track or you could set it up to always do this by unchecking "Ask me every time".
 
You can verify this by inserting an instrument track then right clicking on it and choose "Split instrument track" and you will then have a MIDI track for the MIDI data and a corresponding audio track to hear the playback.  Without the MIDI track being routed to a synth (hard or soft) and that synth routed to an audio track (by simply select the appropriate input in the audio track) you will not hear anything from the MIDI data (track).
 

King Conga
OK. Ignore what I said about the audio tracks. I know MIDI does NOT play sounds, it only triggers them. So, when I create a stnd MIDI track (NOT Instrument trk) I can see the Sonar MIDI track's meter responding to my MIDI signals, but no sound is produced.  For the same token, that same MIDI track WILL record MIDI notes/events, but when I play back that clip again, no sound is produced. ONLY when I create an extra audio track (think back to when Real Guitar came out and you had to create a MIDI AND Audio track) for the separate Audio signal to go to the Analog Inputs on my interface do I hear any sound.  So, what that tells me is that my keyboard s'ware is properly telling the MIDI event to trigger a sound, AND the sound is obviously being fed all the way through in order to make sound.  That shows me the problem is NOT in my keyboard, or cables, OR interface.  However, I'll admit that there could be a MIDI glitch in the interface between converting the MIDI to Audio.

Oh, you must also enable echo.  Just for clarification on the matter.
 
Kind regards,
 
tecknot

57Gregy
"SONAR always required both a MIDI track and an audio track (to hear the audio playback of the MIDI)"
 
Unless you have the MIDI track's output set to the interface the MIDI is plugged into or the USB port it's plugged into, thus playing the MIDI back through the keyboard and not using any soft synths.

Yes, you are right Greg, but if you want to record the audio from the MIDI going back to the keyboard, then the keyboard must be routed back to an audio track in SONAR, hence the need for an audio track.  Otherwise, you will hear the playback directly from the keyboard via speakers from the keyboard itself or main off of the interface, but not in SONAR.  What I am describing is routing in SONAR.  I am pretty sure that I was clear in that context when I mentioned "in SONAR" as indicated in my previous post quoted below:

tecknot
...If you are just routing your MIDI track out to your keyboard (say in a project without any audio tracks) and it is playing back the audio then you are only hearing from your keyboard speakers and not SONAR...

 
Kind regards,
 
tecknot

 
 
deleted
 

Hey Johnny, I wouldn't bother at this point since King has been using Cakewalk since the DOS days, so he knows how it all works.
 

King Conga
Guys, did either of you use Cakewalk DOS 5? I actually started using Cakewalk from a friend in '88, and VST wasn't developed, or even released until '96, so until then THE ONLY way you could use Cakewalk (at least say 5 yrs or more before Sonar) was via MIDI, and it was simple. You hit a note on your keybd, and it sends MIDI OUT msg, and comes back around to the MIDI IN to trigger a sample in your keyboard. The VST, or DirectX stnd that Sonar 1st used required LOTS of RAM to avoid intolerable amounts of latency.  I know because I was one of those poor saps that couldn't afford the hardware required for that until years later.
 
Having said that, I still haven't gotten my MIDI tracks to work yet. I'm actually going to try RE connecting my Alesis Firewire device to see if that fixes it. OR, I might connect an old Roland TD-8 to my MIDI and eliminate whether my keyboard is the problem, thinking that if Sonar sees the MIDI OUT signal going INTO the Track Input (which the meters show) then it may not be sending the MIDI signal back to the MIDI IN port on my keybd, or the keybd may not be seeing the MIDI signal. I know the MIDI cables are good because I've already tested them. Will keep you posted.  But let's please not argue over the settled ground.

 
King, I have been using Cakewalk products since the old days including using a Commador(sp?) for processing.  That being said, we are discussing how things are working in SONAR (X3) so your vast experiences with earlier products are not relevant.  So, I do not appreciate the contempt or your supercilious comments directed toward us (or me).  I am sincerely trying to help you, but if you would described exactly how you have your setup setup, then I can help narrow down the problem.  Otherwise, that would explain my verbose responses in dealing with what information you have so far provided.  I can only go so far with what you give.
 
 Kind regards,
 
tecknot

deleted by poster

Just curious, how do you route audio out of your keyboard? Can you draw your audio (and MIDI) routing?
 
regards,
Jaymz

So you are getting sound via phones from your 1818, but not your interface's main/monitor outs?  Check your Presonus VSL (or Universal Control ?) software routing and signal flow (checking for mute channels, etc.).
 
not so kind regards,
 
tecknot

Does your keyboard have phones out? Try to listen to your keyboard's phone out using headphone. If it does not make any sound, then the problem is in the MIDI OUT path of your sonar (interface) to your keyboard. If it makes sound, then there is no problem with the MIDI setup, we can focus on the Presonus.
 
From what I see, I suspect you need to check Presonus driver interface to make sure the channel 5 & 6 is not muted, and have their faders all the way up. Othewise, you need to activate direct monitoring in Sonar audio track like Brundlefly mentioned above to be able to hear the sound.

 OP- In fact, the clipping indicators for my analog channels on my interface will turn red but they just won't sound.
 
Then now- Thanks James. I do have a hdphn OUT and it DOES produce sound, as do the actual MAIN OUTS that are sending good signal to the interface Analog INs, and both MIDI and 1/4" cables are good, and nothing is muted.
 
Why I deleted my posts. 
 

Yes, Bob.  Thanks, the Local IS Off.  I notice you have the same 1818VSL I do.  Do you have, or use hardware monitoring?  I tried to look for that setting on this device but couldn't find any.

King Conga, it seems you missed my post #21. If you don't want to echo audio through a track in SONAR, you will need to enable direct monitoring via your interface.
 
EDIT: Looks like you are working on it. I Googled a bit but didn't find anything definitive. Perhaps something in this article will help:
 
https://support.presonus.com/hc/en-us/articles/210044383-AudioBox-1818VSL-How-do-I-create-a-monitor-mix-for-my-headphones-
 
I considered getting an 1818VSL once, but passed because it's low-latency performance was not great (considerable hardware/firmware latency on top of the buffers).

King Conga
Well, Lordy Brundlefly, you're pretty handy to have around. I think I'll keep you.  I was wondering why my hdphn wasn't working.  Do you think that may be why I'm not hearing MIDI? At the very least, this will help.
Thanks,
KC

MIDI has no sound! You need an audio track to hear it...  hehehe  Just kidding,