greenfrog
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Is Rapture worth buying?
Hi All,
I'm a Music Creator 4 user, I've tried all the free soft synths I can find, including TTS, Dreamstation, Triangle II, Crystal etc etc. I was impressed but I'm looking for more. Maybe I'm being naive but all the tracks I've heard written with this kit (by myself and others) SOUNDS amateur. So the question is, do the professionals sound better partly because they have better synths and virtual instruments, or is that all down to track mastering / post processing (I'm thinking of my heros "Air" and "Goldfrapp" here).
Also, for those who have bought Rapture... was it just another soft synth or did it impress you more than the free stuff out there... i.e. is it really worth $200?
Many thanks for any advice... I find this world of products bewildering so any help much appreciated!
Greenfrog
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Nick P
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RE: Is Rapture worth buying?
2008/05/04 05:16:26
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1) You get what you pay for
2) Yes, Rapture is worth it. A great sounding synth. Extremely versatile. Good support. Reliable. Ever expanding library of 3rd party sounds, including new Craig Anderton Minimoog Tribute pack. Real nice
3) Your heroes (having not heard their music) almost certainly are getting their sound via massive amounts of DSP in their mixes, using again almost certainly Pro Tools. In addition, they have people who have great ears and experience at mixing records and who know how to use all of the technology, software and hardware, to get a great mix. Again almost certainly you would not be able to recreate this sound no matter how much you spend, so the best bet is to focus on the music and hope that you would be able to get the budget to make the move to a Pro Tools facility with a great engineer when the time is right.
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vespesian
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RE: Is Rapture worth buying?
2008/05/04 08:31:27
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Yes - Rapture is definitely worth it. Yes - you could emulate Air and Goldfrapp's sound, very well...check out some of the "Film Textures and FX" from both expansion packs, and alter & add some LFO destinations. I think Nick is right re: the DSP power & skill when it comes to, er, 'conventional' production values...pros are pros for a reason......but then, again, in electronica, a "skill-less", homemade sound is often part of the sound....ie., Justice (Daft Punk buddies) makes everything on Garageband, on one laptop, with free samples....and sounding unique is part of the deal. Rapture can sound very unique.
You're in an amazing state. So stay there.
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Nick P
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RE: Is Rapture worth buying?
2008/05/04 09:23:07
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I agree. The tools are definitely available to the masses. Pro Tools is the gold standard, but the tools that come with most pro DAWs like Sonar are quite close in quality, depth, and variation. And there are many relatively affordable ones as well. So even more so today, it comes down to the skill of the user. But it definitely can be done in a home studio.
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AT
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RE: Is Rapture worth buying?
2008/05/04 12:24:05
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Rapture is heads above the ones you've listed (tho I never really used crystal, which sounds good if a little wierd to program).
Rapture is a must if you are using Cakewalk's stuff and want to do synth music (maybe not a must, but a best buy, for sure).
Although there is lots of other free stuff out there which is good. Try Ugo's stuff (Ugoaudio.com). He has a collection of free synths which would work very well with Goldfrappe sounding music. And a hell of a lot easier to program than crystal.
https://soundcloud.com/a-pleasure-dome
http://www.bnoir-film.com/ there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. 24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
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cryophonik
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RE: Is Rapture worth buying?
2008/05/04 13:10:10
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What really sets Rapture apart from the ones you mentioned are (1) its programmability and (2) its huge library. I've used all the synths you mentioned (and many more), but none of them come close to matching Rapture's capabilities. Someone mentioned this somewhere (Simon Cann in his Cakewalk Synths book, perhaps?) that Rapture is like 6 synths strapped together and I think that pretty much sums up its power. It's incredibly deep, yet still incredibly easy to program and has one of the best looking, nicely laid-out, and intuitive GUIs out there, IMHO.
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Fog
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RE: Is Rapture worth buying?
2008/05/04 19:28:11
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mumpcake
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RE: Is Rapture worth buying?
2008/05/05 00:24:27
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ORIGINAL: greenfrog
So the question is, do the professionals sound better partly because they have better synths and virtual instruments, or is that all down to track mastering / post processing (I'm thinking of my heros "Air" and "Goldfrapp" here).
Part of the problem may be that you don't have access to the same quality of vocalists as they do. Likewise, they often use a lot of real instruments and from your setup it doesn't sound like you have good enough guitar, bass, or rhodes sounds at your disposal.
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foxwolfen
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RE: Is Rapture worth buying?
2008/05/05 00:26:28
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+1 for Z3ta - I purchased it over Rapture recently. After trying the demo for Rapture I was not overly blown away by it.
Z3ta however rocked my socks. Phat, phat analog sound to it. Simple interface and highly flexible. And at about 1/3 the price. Should allow you to mimic the Air "new lounge" sound quite nicely (we're fans of them too).
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Fog
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RE: Is Rapture worth buying?
2008/05/05 08:05:19
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ORIGINAL: foxwolfen
+1 for Z3ta - I purchased it over Rapture recently. After trying the demo for Rapture I was not overly blown away by it.
ah but fox, z3ta is like little brother of rapture.. Rene worked on both also  I still need to mod my z3ta to work like an acess virus..hmm I keep putting that off.
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yungxcraven
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RE: Is Rapture worth buying?
2008/05/05 10:41:22
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Rapture is the best plug-in i have. IT completely blows Dimension out, and the free expansion packs are incredible!! I use it on every track and my **** sounds polished. If Dimension wasn't so buggy, it would be close to Rapture, except for the powerful synths Rapture has.
Sonar X1, Edirol FA-66, HP Elite, Intel Quad core i5 3.2, 8 GB ram, Blue Bluebird, FL 10, Nexus 2.
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fr4ncesco
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RE: Is Rapture worth buying?
2008/05/05 11:26:41
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soon, I hope to give an additional reason to have Rapture...
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AT
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RE: Is Rapture worth buying?
2008/05/05 20:36:56
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fr4nesco,
can't wait, then.
https://soundcloud.com/a-pleasure-dome
http://www.bnoir-film.com/ there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. 24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
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inmazevo
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RE: Is Rapture worth buying?
2008/05/05 21:45:53
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Rapture's excellent, IMHO, if you like programmable synth sounds with a zillion preset starting points. 0-60 very quickly. I got it with a 20% off coupon a while ago, and I've never regretted it. As other have said, download the demo. z3ta+, despite its apparent age, is also quite compelling. Those two make it into nearly every track, though there are two others that I think are their equals for me: - NI Massive, where Rapture is concerned - NI FM8, where some of z3ta+ is concerned Most of my tracks now have at least one instance of every one of those in them. Hard to pick a favorite out of the bunch. I want to say the Cakewalk stuff, 'cause this is their forum, but I LOVE the FM8 arpeggiator, and Massive is very easy to program. I'm not sure I could live without any of those, which is not the case with any other instrument plugin I have. Download all the demos, and/or buy all of them. - zevo
post edited by inmazevo - 2008/05/05 22:06:32
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djflux
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RE: Is Rapture worth buying?
2008/05/06 03:19:38
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ORIGINAL: Fog
ah but fox, z3ta is like little brother of rapture.. Rene worked on both also
I still need to mod my z3ta to work like an acess virus..hmm I keep putting that off.
Are you serious? How do you do that? The Virus is my dream hardware, but I can't get it.
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djflux
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RE: Is Rapture worth buying?
2008/05/06 03:22:07
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Hey, I didn't want to create another topic, but can someone tell me the advantages of Zeta vs. Rapture? I'm also deciding between them. I mainly want trance/electronica sounds.
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Fog
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RE: Is Rapture worth buying?
2008/05/06 04:33:49
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flux http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=637280 as I've said I've not tried it as yet, downloaded it. It uses the wave forms ala virus , BUT it's not officially endorsed. http://www.cakewalk.com/press/ExpressionEngine.asp is the difference.. z3ta is René 's work .. rapture is after he joined CW both are good though it's a bit hard to judge/compare the 2 in the sense of Rapture is a later project, the price difference also, both are good to have really.hhmm and z3ta is part of sonar 7pe free also =)
post edited by Fog - 2008/05/06 04:54:20
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fr4ncesco
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RE: Is Rapture worth buying?
2008/05/06 04:43:28
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ORIGINAL: djflux
ORIGINAL: Fog
ah but fox, z3ta is like little brother of rapture.. Rene worked on both also
I still need to mod my z3ta to work like an acess virus..hmm I keep putting that off.
Are you serious? How do you do that? The Virus is my dream hardware, but I can't get it.
I'm not sure if you are talking about this, but I can antipate (as I made it 5 years ago) that the virus_mod for z3ta is not meant to sound like a Virus. So, if you have this kind of expectation from it, you would get quite disappointed. It adds a nice palette of sounds, but it's not an emulation. That new wavetable set was "just" the starting point, a reason to explore z3ta+ forcing myself to build patches from scratch. So it basically started as a programming experience for myself that at a certain point become public by popular demand in the old rgc:audio forum in KVR.
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Fog
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RE: Is Rapture worth buying?
2008/05/06 05:03:15
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hey fr4ncesco, way I looked at it, more sounds regardless.. I haven't installed it yet and I remained open minded about it, due to the big cost difference between a virus for a start I mean some of the free things out there amazed me (synth1 by Ichiro Toda) if it expands what I have already, that's all good.
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AT
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RE: Is Rapture worth buying?
2008/05/06 12:38:27
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flux,
Zeta over Rapture? I prefer Rapture, tho Zeta is very good, too (I got it after Rapt and haven't used it as much, so ...) Zeta is more of a modular design and has some things Rapt doesn't. There is limited FM, and the modular routings have a very nice abilty to bandwidth limit their settings - scale 'em if you want.
There are plenty of free sounds out there (including Frencesco's), tho they are more techno/wierd rather than analog style (there are plenty of those, but it is not its strong suit). Plenty of buzzy stuff but organic evolving stuff seems to go to Rapt. And Rapt is cleaner sounding to my ears and prehaps a little fuller. The organs are better from what I recall - some tasty hammonds etc.
That being said, Zeta is a fine synth and you should be able to use it for many, if not most sounds. It is very flexible, and uses SFZ like Rapt and DimPro so you can add your own sounds/instruments. Esp. if you don't have a analog template in your mind it should be plenty easy to learn quickly (that is what I meant about modular rather than linear - it took me a little longer to get my mind around it).
But since Zeta comes as a "gimme" now with Sonar (and maybe P5v3!) you might want to spend the extra bucks for Rapture when they have it on sale (I think it has been down to $99 at times). Zeta is $79. But if the money is burning a hole in your pocket now, you won't be disappointed with Zeta, esp. for more electronic music.
https://soundcloud.com/a-pleasure-dome
http://www.bnoir-film.com/ there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. 24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
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cryophonik
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RE: Is Rapture worth buying?
2008/05/06 13:04:23
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ORIGINAL: inmazevo
z3ta+, despite its apparent age, is also quite compelling.
Those two make it into nearly every track, though there are two others that I think are their equals for me:
- NI Massive, where Rapture is concerned
- NI FM8, where some of z3ta+ is concerned
Most of my tracks now have at least one instance of every one of those in them.
Hard to pick a favorite out of the bunch. I want to say the Cakewalk stuff, 'cause this is their forum, but I LOVE the FM8 arpeggiator, and Massive is very easy to program.
I'm not sure I could live without any of those, which is not the case with any other instrument plugin I have.
+1 to everything, zevo. Not trying to hijack the thread, but one other synth that I'll throw into the mix is Rob Papen's Blue. If you haven't checked it out, you should. It's got a lot in common with both FM8 and Z3TA+, but it even goes beyond them in terms of synthesis and the library of sounds is huge. Back OT - alright fr4nesco, you can't just leave us hanging - give us some sort of hint, please!!!!!  ORIGINAL: djflux
Are you serious? How do you do that? The Virus is my dream hardware, but I can't get it.
+1 to what fr4nesco said (and he should know!) - the Virus mod does not really emulate a real Virus. Actually, the sounds are so agressive that it reminds me more of my Nord 2X. However, the Viral Outbreak expansion for Rapture/DimPro is actually pretty good and sounds a lot like my Polar TI. Check it out: http://www.project5.com/products/addons/viral/default.asp
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mumpcake
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RE: Is Rapture worth buying?
2008/05/06 13:16:24
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Back OT - alright fr4nesco, you can't just leave us hanging - give us some sort of hint, please!!!!! I hope he's talking about the Muz3um set for Rapture. The Muz3um set for z3ta+ is a good and necessary download. Even if you don't have z3ta+ you can use the waveforms in Rapture. I'm really curious, though, to hear what the new patches will sound like.
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SvenArne
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RE: Is Rapture worth buying?
2008/05/06 13:17:40
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I must say I'm STRONGLY opposed to Nick P's notion that Pro Tools is in any way responsible or even contributing to the cool synth sounds that synth auteurs like Air, Goldfrapp and others achive. It's simply not that kind of program!
Sven
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fr4ncesco
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RE: Is Rapture worth buying?
2008/05/06 13:56:50
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I hope he's talking about the Muz3um set for Rapture.
yes, that's it I will unveil the details in some days. For now, I can say that it became quite a big project, beyond my initial plan (so it's not a simple conversion from z3ta+ patches) by the way: I need some QA help, especially to check for possible installation issues. As I'm still on XP, I would need two people: - one Rapture user under Vista - one Rapture user under OSX If any of you is interested (and has a good experience ising/programming Rapture), send me a PM
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djflux
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RE: Is Rapture worth buying?
2008/05/06 16:14:01
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ORIGINAL: AT
But since Zeta comes as a "gimme" now with Sonar (and maybe P5v3!) you might want to spend the extra bucks for Rapture when they have it on sale (I think it has been down to $99 at times). Zeta is $79. But if the money is burning a hole in your pocket now, you won't be disappointed with Zeta, esp. for more electronic music.
But since Zeta comes as a "gimme" now with Sonar (and maybe P5v3!) you might want to spend the extra bucks for Rapture when they have it on sale (I think it has been down to $99 at times). Zeta is $79. But if the money is burning a hole in your pocket now, you won't be disappointed with Zeta, esp. for more electronic music. Where'd you hear that about P5v3? Should I wait for that, or will it be a long wait? And when/where can I find Rapture for $99?
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AT
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RE: Is Rapture worth buying?
2008/05/06 22:42:45
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djflux,
P5v3 has been in the works since before P5v2.5 - according to rumors and this forum. But I wouldn't hold my breath - I was speculating on what might be included.
I think at Christmas they had the $99 Rapture - but maybe that was in conjunction w/ the Sonar upgrade. I think it is on this site for $159 or so right now. But since I have it, I don't really keep up with the pricing. If you are patient, Cake runs specials a couple/three times a year.
But Rapture (if you don't have a main synth) is well worth the money. Zeta is a good synth, too, esp. for the money right now.
and how is San Antonio these days? Been to the Blanco cafe? We couldn't find it the last time we were down there since they had San Pedro all torn up.
https://soundcloud.com/a-pleasure-dome
http://www.bnoir-film.com/ there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. 24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
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djflux
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RE: Is Rapture worth buying?
2008/05/07 00:46:23
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Alright, thanks for the info. I've lived in San Antonio my whole life, but honestly I've never been to Blanco Cafe, haha. There's always some inconveniently placed construction work. Now it's Bandera at 1604, which is near where I live.
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foxwolfen
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RE: Is Rapture worth buying?
2008/05/07 13:42:55
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ORIGINAL: Fog
ORIGINAL: foxwolfen
+1 for Z3ta - I purchased it over Rapture recently. After trying the demo for Rapture I was not overly blown away by it.
ah but fox, z3ta is like little brother of rapture.. Rene worked on both also
I still need to mod my z3ta to work like an acess virus..hmm I keep putting that off.
I just downloaded an updated Virus mod from patcharena (about to install it). Is this the mod you are talking about? Virus Mod Cheers Shad
post edited by foxwolfen - 2008/05/07 14:08:43
A scientist knows more & more about less & less till he knows everything about nothing, while a philosopher knows less & less about more & more till he knows nothing about everything. Composers Forum
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foxwolfen
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RE: Is Rapture worth buying?
2008/05/07 13:56:05
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ORIGINAL: djflux
Hey, I didn't want to create another topic, but can someone tell me the advantages of Zeta vs. Rapture? I'm also deciding between them. I mainly want trance/electronica sounds.
If you have not done so, download both demos and give them a try. This is what I did, and ultimately decided for my needs, Z3ta did everything rapture did, and cost three times less. Like you I desire electronica/trance sounds, and Z3ta seems perfectly suited to that. Ultimately I may also buy Rapture, hard to say as there or other things I would prefer good sample instrument such as NI Komplete.
A scientist knows more & more about less & less till he knows everything about nothing, while a philosopher knows less & less about more & more till he knows nothing about everything. Composers Forum
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Fog
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RE: Is Rapture worth buying?
2008/05/07 14:01:48
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I just downloaded an updated Virus mod from patcharena (about to install it). Is this the mod you are talking about?
Looks like it Shad, the author of it is here also (fr4ncesco) hopefully it should include instructions, I got to know about it from the kvr site. there are instructions on the web also.
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