jamesg1213
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Re: Is Sir Paul the greatest composer of all time?
2014/02/21 11:47:57
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spacey
For one to have the knowledge and ability to sit with pen in hand and write out scores, as heard in their head and give to musicians to execute the part (as written) as many great composers have done is without doubt beyond most musicians and/or composers abilities. Works that express every little nuance and strong emotion that music may have to offer all written down on paper to be executed by highly trained musicians.
There are people that reach levels that leave all others knowing that the brain and abilities of some people will never be fully understood and leave many believing that the ability was a gift from a God....an exceptable understanding to some that can't find another reasoning or explanation.
I'm not qualified to compare their abilities. I can make ignorant comparisons and at best hope they were funny. In truth I sometimes have trouble comparing apples to apples...there seem to be many different kinds of apples and I'm not certain that I've tasted them all.
Excellent post Michael. Brings to mind Larry Alexander (over at Songs) who creates some astonishing music, all created in piano roll using just mouse clicks. It's not music I would necessarily choose to listen to, but the skill and vision required to hear that in his head and create it is undeniable.
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dubdisciple
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Re: Is Sir Paul the greatest composer of all time?
2014/02/21 13:22:53
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bitflipper
dubdisciple
Speaking of People...why does the 50 most beautiful people list change every year? Shouldn't it mostly stay the same unless someone dies or gets uglier or someone somehow makes a massive jump in beauty?
On a similar note, why don't the NYT, WSJ and USA Today best-seller lists agree with one another?
you would think that would be an easy one to get consensus on! I'm guessing it's something silly like one not counting certain typesbof sales.
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craigb
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Re: Is Sir Paul the greatest composer of all time?
2014/02/22 01:00:38
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Personally, I just don't even see him being in the discussion. If we ignore the vast majority of wonderful composers of Classical music, there's still teams like Rodgers and Hammerstein that blow him away.
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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pentimentosound
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Re: Is Sir Paul the greatest composer of all time?
2014/05/06 08:26:27
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I read this thread as I woke up, enjoying my coffee and laughing ..... I like all kinds of songs and music and even that changes throughout the day, and has for my whole life. All the "greats" of music, have done something that interests or tickles me. I thank them all. Their work has given me years of delight. How cool is that?!?!
I seem consistently fascinated by Debussy and Ravel, but not all their pieces. I don't think I could even, or would even hazard a guess at who my favorite composer is.... so I think I'll go with the Abe Lincoln door #3, "they are all great, some of the time"
Eric Carmen's All By Myself is based on Rachmaninoff's Piano Concerto #2 in C minor. He did it again with Never Gonna Fall In Love Again, and he had to pay 12% of his royalties on those two songs, to the family/estate, for "borrowing". I don't think you could get any of that from Pachabel.....maybe without coffee....
Michael
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craigb
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Re: Is Sir Paul the greatest composer of all time?
2014/05/06 14:22:36
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I wouldn't mess with Pachabel, he has a canon!
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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pentimentosound
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Re: Is Sir Paul the greatest composer of all time?
2014/05/06 14:28:21
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and his new CD, "The Explosive Sounds of Rocky Pachabel" .......the follow up to "Highway to BEL"! and of course his first ...... "Key of D, Done Dirt Cheap" .....although I was hearing that in E as I typed it. LOL
You'll all have to forgive me. I have been working my butt off in the yard and garden for the past few days....ouch.
Michael
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bayoubill
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Re: Is Sir Paul the greatest composer of all time?
2014/05/06 14:31:26
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I believe he is the greatest rock composer AND rock singer of all time. That's what I believe
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Glyn Barnes
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Re: Is Sir Paul the greatest composer of all time?
2014/05/07 00:36:12
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I find it amazing that no one has mentioned Nigel Tufnel! His musical trilogy in D-Minor, enough said.
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yorolpal
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Re: Is Sir Paul the greatest composer of all time?
2014/05/07 00:51:43
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But didn't Derek Smalls write "Jazz Odyssey"??
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Glyn Barnes
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Re: Is Sir Paul the greatest composer of all time?
2014/05/07 05:25:40
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yorolpal
But didn't Derek Smalls write "Jazz Odyssey"??
Yeah, but Jazz ain't classical, init. Nigel is not a fan of jazz. "Jazz," he said in 1992," is just a series of mistakes without the 'oops.'
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DeeringAmps
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Re: Is Sir Paul the greatest composer of all time?
2014/05/07 09:32:37
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I have my personal "Top Ten British Vocalists of all time" list.
Generally I include Lennon/McCartney as one entry.
(that way my list can go to "eleven")
I would put Lennon/McCartney near the top of my "Top Ten" song writers as well.
Are all song writers composers?
I guess that depends on your point of view.
Topic for another thread?
T
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mgh
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Re: Is Sir Paul the greatest composer of all time?
2014/05/07 16:03:10
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there's no point comparing pop music with classical or jazz, ditto prog metal or hip-hop.
Is McCartney one of the greatest composers ever? No.
Is he one of the greatest popular music composers ever? No.
Is a member of one of the greatest popular music bands ever, who composed some of the greatest songs ever? Yes.
Unfortunately for him, Lennon died and attained sainthood...
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craigb
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Re: Is Sir Paul the greatest composer of all time?
2014/05/07 16:09:25
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Wasn't he in one of those "boy" bands? 
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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Linear Phase
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Re: Is Sir Paul the greatest composer of all time?
2014/05/07 23:47:02
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Fact: Paul McCartney is not the greatest composer of all time.
End of history lesson.
Cheers
too many lasers...  Sonar = audio editing ninja of a music software!
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yorolpal
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Re: Is Sir Paul the greatest composer of all time?
2014/05/07 23:51:27
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Or bass player. Or singer. Or songwriter. Or person. Or anything...other than being the best Sir Paul McCartney ever. Maybe not even that. And I LOVE the guy!!!
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michaelhanson
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Re: Is Sir Paul the greatest composer of all time?
2014/05/08 07:36:31
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Or bass player. Or singer. Or songwriter. Or person. Or anything...other than being the best Sir Paul McCartney ever. Maybe not even that. And I LOVE the guy!!! +1 So, who is the greatest composer of all time? How would one qualify that? What criteria are you using to judge this category? I am assuming that composer has to mean....Classical Music???
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jamesg1213
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Re: Is Sir Paul the greatest composer of all time?
2014/05/08 08:17:02
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MakeShift
Or bass player. Or singer. Or songwriter. Or person. Or anything...other than being the best Sir Paul McCartney ever. Maybe not even that. And I LOVE the guy!!!
+1
So, who is the greatest composer of all time? How would one qualify that? What criteria are you using to judge this category?
I am assuming that composer has to mean....Classical Music???
No, but it's probably Mozart, so far (cos we ain't had 'all time' yet). Arguably. If you use the criteria - most prolific (over 600 works), most gifted, most lauded by his peers and critics, having the most influence on subsequent composers and Western music in general, and enduring popularity, he would appear to be 'the guy'. Or not.
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pentimentosound
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Re: Is Sir Paul the greatest composer of all time?
2014/05/08 09:24:00
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Yeah, ditto for me, yorolpal! I heard Fixing A Hole, and Band On The Run, yesterday and thought Sir Paul has brought some ..well, LOTS of really nice music into my life and I am delighted with him and the Beatles for that! The whole "greatest" thing has too many shifting facets in my thinking, for one person to stay in that focus.
I realized how impressive Stephen Stills has been on my musical life, as writer, singer, player, and arranger/producer, and I don't see him as "the greatest". Certainly, he is the best at being him! and THAT is great! for me. Ray Davies' Waterloo Sunset, popped up, too after reading this, the last time, and those last three words make me think of all the Richards/Jagger songs I love! Sting, Paul Simon, Garcia/Hunter, Pete Townsend, Leon Russell, JT, Mark Knopfler, etc, all have made music I love to hear!
Holst' Planets, Tchaikovsky' Nut Cracker and others, Bach's Jesu, joy of man's desiring, Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata, and Stravinsky's Rites of Spring, ( I could go on but I am sure you get the point..) all are pieces that I treasure hearing over and over for my 65 years here on the planet. I could add MJQ and Bennie Goodman and Charlie Christian and they are ALL great. It's morning and this afternoon, I will think of others, like Phil Keaggy and Vangelis. I know I will think of MORE this evening, and so it goes......
It is a rhetorical question. Who is the greatest? Why do you ask? I certainly will answer differently at any given moment.....
Michael
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jbow
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Re: Is Sir Paul the greatest composer of all time?
2014/05/08 10:10:41
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No way... He was an exceptional songwriter when paired with John Lennon, by himself he did one especially great song, Yesterday.
Jimmy Webb and Dolly Parton are more elite, IMO. Frank Zappa was a better "composer".
There was certainly a synergism when he and John worked together though. The sum of the two was more than any two people should be. The same is true of Frey and Henley, Becker and Fagen.
It is all subjective...
J
Sonar Platinum Studiocat Pro 16G RAM (some bells and whistles) HP Pavilion dm4 1165-dx (i5)-8G RAM Octa-Capture KRK Rokit-8s MIDI keyboards... Control Pad mics. I HATE THIS CMPUTER KEYBARD!
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jbow
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Re: Is Sir Paul the greatest composer of all time?
2014/05/08 11:15:48
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bitflipper
Paul Simon gets my vote.
That is what I mean by subjective. I cannot turn the channel fast enough when Paul Simon comes on. In 8th grade or so, I liked the Sound of Silence but his other stuff is just OK ad a lot of it I just don't like... but I like YOU! I the 60s I LOVED the BEATLES, these days... I'm like eh about BEATLES music, sometimes I like it other times I don't want to hear it BUT I still know every word to almost every song, every inflection in tone... everything. I remember seeing the TV broadcast of the film of The BEATLES at Shea, I forget which network aired it but I do remember pacing back and forth the whole time it was on. Beatlemania, in full force. I guess when I grew up, some of their stuff became at odds with my values and other stuff I had just heard too much. It's funny how time changes us. Brian Wilson is another great songwriter and the competition between him and the BEATLES brought out some great music. I really wish that the Beach Boys had supported Brian in the SMILE effort. What a piece of work that could have been had it come out in it's day. Jimi was another great songwriter and great at interpretation of other people's music. What he did with Dylan songs was amazing. Pete Townshend is another great writer TOMMY was unprecedented in pop music as was Quad.. Paul and John laid a foundation though and no one can take that away... though the best "composer" in the BEATLES was George Martin. I can see why yu really like Paul Simon though. He wrote some great tunes, Bridge over troubled waters, Mrs. Robinson, SoS, others.. they just over time have come to grate on me. I can't explain why, probably because I have grown more cynical with time and have read too much history and have come to see this world as it is rather than how it could be (but never will be). Oh Well, said Peter Green... LOL. J
Sonar Platinum Studiocat Pro 16G RAM (some bells and whistles) HP Pavilion dm4 1165-dx (i5)-8G RAM Octa-Capture KRK Rokit-8s MIDI keyboards... Control Pad mics. I HATE THIS CMPUTER KEYBARD!
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jbow
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Re: Is Sir Paul the greatest composer of all time?
2014/05/08 11:38:30
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jamesg1213
MakeShift
Or bass player. Or singer. Or songwriter. Or person. Or anything...other than being the best Sir Paul McCartney ever. Maybe not even that. And I LOVE the guy!!!
+1
So, who is the greatest composer of all time? How would one qualify that? What criteria are you using to judge this category?
I am assuming that composer has to mean....Classical Music???
No, but it's probably Mozart, so far (cos we ain't had 'all time' yet). Arguably.
If you use the criteria - most prolific (over 600 works), most gifted, most lauded by his peers and critics, having the most influence on subsequent composers and Western music in general, and enduring popularity, he would appear to be 'the guy'.
Or not.
Oh we're going to be serious... Bach gets my vote along with runners up Norman Dello Joio, Wagner, Brahms (particularly his folk songs), and Dvorak (for The New World Symphony). Beethoven (for composing while deaf...) and of course our own Stephen Foster. I like Benedictine and Gregorian Monk chants too, acapella beauty. I love Jerusalem and Ava Maria too. Oh, I almost forgot Handel. His Messiah is, I think, an example of true inspiration, it is a very complex work, he wrote it in 24 days.. and that is amazing. One page of 259 written in those 24 days... if you've ever been part of singing The Messiah, you know it is a BOOK.  That's a composer! You reckon we have been dumbed down a bit? Dello Joio was 20th century and I'm sure there are contemporary composers of whom I know nothing. Burt Bacharach was no slouch either, but not a composer as such. A great songwriter though, J
Sonar Platinum Studiocat Pro 16G RAM (some bells and whistles) HP Pavilion dm4 1165-dx (i5)-8G RAM Octa-Capture KRK Rokit-8s MIDI keyboards... Control Pad mics. I HATE THIS CMPUTER KEYBARD!
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michaelhanson
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Re: Is Sir Paul the greatest composer of all time?
2014/05/08 11:49:23
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No way... He was an exceptional songwriter when paired with John Lennon, by himself he did one especially great song, Yesterday. My all time favorite McCartney tune ...and it was post Beatles.....Maybe I'm Amazed. I would concider Let It Be and Hey Jude to be pretty big songs for the Beatles. You do realize that they pretty much stopped cowriting songs by '66/ '67?? They labelled everything Lennon/ McCartney because of their early business agreements. McCartney infact wanted to label his tunes, McCartney/ Lennon, but legally was not able to do so. I am a huge Lennon fan as well, but I don't see how people discount that McCartney was equally as productive as a Beatle and probably the most productive post Beatle. There is quite a bit of info out there on who is recorded as contributing to the songs: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_The_Beatles_songs http://www.musicbyday.com/lennon-vs-mccartney-who-wrote-each-of-their-27-1-hits/517/ Incidentally, the case could be made that George wrote 2 of the most popular Beatles songs with Here Comes The Sun and Something. Here Comes The Sun was the number 1 down loaded Beatles song when the catalogue finally became available on iTunes.
post edited by MakeShift - 2014/05/08 11:55:55
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craigb
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Re: Is Sir Paul the greatest composer of all time?
2014/05/08 11:55:00
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jbow
Frank Zappa was a better "composer".
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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michaelhanson
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Re: Is Sir Paul the greatest composer of all time?
2014/05/08 12:00:23
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...or maybe a better composter. 
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jamesg1213
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Re: Is Sir Paul the greatest composer of all time?
2014/05/08 12:05:14
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MakeShift
My all time favorite McCartney tune ...and it was post Beatles.....Maybe I'm Amazed.
Mine too. In fact I think it's the only solo song of his that matches what he achieved in The Beatles.
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pentimentosound
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Re: Is Sir Paul the greatest composer of all time?
2014/05/08 12:47:02
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Ditto on Brian Wilson. I can listen to God Only Knows, Don't Worry Baby, and Good Vibrations, anytime! LOL
RE Peter Green Ditto on Oh Well, though Albatross is usually playing in my mind and I am quite pleased about it! LOL
and though I never was a Zappa fan, I still find myself singing "What's the Ugliest Part of Your Body" ! and I find Justin Hayward's songs show up whenever I am noodling about on guitar, piano or mandolin. Freddie Mercury's Bohemian Rhapsody is an amazing piece!
Life is movement and I don't expect things to stay the same, yet there are pieces of music that seem to always delight, amuse, get my attention and start me daydreaming. I think that is great! I wouldn't have it any other way.
Michael
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Rain
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Re: Is Sir Paul the greatest composer of all time?
2014/05/08 16:05:25
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jbow
Oh we're going to be serious... Bach gets my vote
Exactly. To me, when we talk about "the greatest", we need to show a bit of objectivity. It's not about who I like best or who wrote my all time favorite piece of music. Bach isn't just technically brilliant - his work is also very powerful emotionally. Who can listen to St. Matthew's Passion and not be completely blown away or look down upon it as inferior to Let it Be? Or listen to his Mass in B minor and find it less touching than Yesterday? To me, the greatest has to be the one who couples technical brilliance w/ emotional content. Not many come close to Bach. I look at it this way - this house is my favorite place in the land, but there's no way I can pretend that it's the greatest piece of architecture in the world. And the Beatles are a lot like this house, whilst Bach is more like Notre-Dame de Paris or Canterbury or Versailles or other such architectural wonders...
TCB - Tea, Cats, Books...
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pentimentosound
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Re: Is Sir Paul the greatest composer of all time?
2014/05/08 16:11:56
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yorolpal
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Re: Is Sir Paul the greatest composer of all time?
2014/05/08 16:14:36
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Funny story about "Maybe I'm Amazed"...One of my ol pals (unfortunately deceased now) was in a band called The Chaps back in the late 60s/early 70s. And one of them had been in England and heard MIA off the "Mcartney" album BEFORE it came to the states. They learned the song, recorded it and put it out here in America well before Paul's version was released. It was IIRC at least a southern regional hit. Probably was recorded at Robin Hood Bryan's studio in Texas. Until I actually purchased the "Mcartney" album myself, I thought Paul had covered them!!
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Scoot
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Re: Is Sir Paul the greatest composer of all time?
2014/05/09 01:51:04
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Ruben
In Great Britain, yes, "Sir" is different from having an MBE. In addition to his MBE, McCartney was knighted by Queen Elizabeth in 1997 - and that's what makes him a "Sir".
Stuff Elizbeth's opinion. If there is a keep a religion out of conversations policy, then the same applies to royalty, as they are supposedly appointed by god. He's just Paul to me.
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