Helpful ReplyIs Sonar Platinum Too Much for A Beginner?

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abacab
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Re: Is Sonar Platinum Too Much for A Beginner? 2016/06/08 16:29:44 (permalink)
Another thing that this thread shows is that a modern DAW is powerful and complex enough to be everything to everybody.  So you have opinions from musicians, engineers, producers, sound designers, hobbyists, etc.  And that's all good. A lot of great knowledge and opinions were shared. That is the great thing about the diversity of these forums.
 
But ...
 
It sort of reminds me of the story about the elephant and the blind men. It is a story of a group of blind men (or men in the dark) who touch an elephant to learn what it is like. Each one feels a different part, but only one part, such as the side or the tusk. They then compare notes and learn that they are in complete disagreement.
 
Regarding his needs - the original poster stated that he was a former piano player and wanted to get back into playing, maybe with a workstation.  He is mostly interested in synthesizers and sounds, using 88 keys.  He has already demo'd some gear at his local music dealer.  His DAW interests are mainly with the instruments and effects. No microphones, or external instruments, other than a keyboard synth are planned.  He has already downloaded the trials of several DAW's.  He did not seem to mention recording and mixing among his current goals.  The question regarding sound interfaces becomes relevant if virtual instruments or live effects monitoring are important. 
 
His original question was whether Sonar was too steep for a beginner to use. 
 
As Craig said earlier in the thread, it is like purchasing your first musical instrument. You should get the best you can afford, and grow into it as you learn.
 
If you get Sonar, there will be plenty of folks here to answer your questions :-)
post edited by abacab - 2016/06/08 16:55:49

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#61
Markubl2
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Re: Is Sonar Platinum Too Much for A Beginner? 2016/06/08 16:32:20 (permalink)
I guess I really have derailed my original question.
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abacab
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Re: Is Sonar Platinum Too Much for A Beginner? 2016/06/08 16:43:28 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Zargg71 2016/06/08 17:54:47
husker
I guess I really have derailed my original question.




No, it's nothing to do with you!  Keep pounding!  Success awaits you!
 
You just asked a loaded question to a highly diverse, opinionated, well informed group of individuals, who each approach their tools in a way that works for them.
 
The more you learn, then the more you can narrow down the scope of a question or a problem.  The broader the question, the broader the answers will be.
 
Trust me, we were all in your shoes once, LOL!!!  I have learned a lot from these forums over the past 20 years.

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#63
azslow3
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Re: Is Sonar Platinum Too Much for A Beginner? 2016/06/08 17:03:53 (permalink)
husker
So, considering a keyboard with a midi out and two TS 1/4 outs (L and R), and an audio interface.
 
A.  I would plug the midi out of the keyboard into the midi in of the interface.  
B.  I would plug the L 1/4 of the keyboard into input one of the interface (using some cable that is 1/4 to XLR/TLS)
C.  I would plug the R 1/4 of the keyboard into input two of the interface (using some cable that is 1/4 to XLR/TLS)
D.  I plug the monitors and headphones into the interface.  If I want to play the keyboard without the computer, I just plug them into the keyboard, since the interface requires USB power.
 
Am I correct on the A,B,C,D?
 
In this configuration, I am unsure on why I would need to plug the USB out of the keyboard into the computer to play or record anything.  The line outs and midi out of the keyboard into the interface takes care of this, correct?  
 
*I understand that the the keyboard may have specific software for programming that would require this connection.

I also consider US-2x2 (for different interface the answer can be different). In general, everything is correct... but with small corrections:
 
A. you will need 2 MIDI cables (2 directions). Or you can use one USB cable instead (just for MIDI in this setup, there is no limitation how many different MIDI inputs/outputs are used simultaneously and either they are coming from the same hardware as audio)
B. and C. US-2x2 has combo jacks, fro XRL or TS or TRS. So you will need 1/4 to 1/4 cables, not 1/4 to XLR
D. US-2x2 can run in standalone mode, you will just need a power supply for it (so it works with the computer switched off). No need to reconnect monitors then.
 
But I repeat one more time. As already mentioned by Abacab, you do not need that extra interface in such setup, even in case you get it.
 
@abacab:
People here have understood the original post, the background and wishes. And it looks like I am not alone who with the same background and the same wishes has started to use Sonar several years ago. And so people mention how these wishes and setups have changed over time. Not to force anything, just for information...

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#64
abacab
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Re: Is Sonar Platinum Too Much for A Beginner? 2016/06/08 17:09:33 (permalink)
azslow3
 
If you really go MOX/FA way , lets make it clear - you do not need another audio interface. For other you can check either it has build-in interface (not all DPs have it).



I found some more info regarding the Yamaha MOX and the internal audio interface.  ...
 
This approach seems to solve the question of "how to play the keyboard with the PC or Sonar turned off".
 
From a review at SOS: "Sonar's audio output appeared in all its glory at the MOX's stereo output jacks."
 
So you just hook up your studio monitors or amp & speakers to the audio outs from the MOX.  The keyboard provides the audio outs for either standalone or DAW use.  Clever!!!
 
http://www.soundonsound.c...ticles/yamaha-mox6.htm

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#65
Zargg
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Re: Is Sonar Platinum Too Much for A Beginner? 2016/06/08 17:53:14 (permalink)
Reading the replies that you have conceived, I think everybody has a point. You are the only one capable of answering these questions. Is this enough to make you wanna choose SONAR?
I think the amount of answers, and the interest, could be enough to to make you think about it.
This is an unique forum with regards to the response / feedback / feedback you'd get from a "regular public" site.
You, and only you can will know what you need, in regards to plugins, features and "extras". 
I wish you the best of luck, either way.
All the best.

Ken Nilsen
Zargg
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Win 10 Pro X64, Cakewalk by Bandlab, SPlat X64, AMD AM3+ fx-8320, 16Gb RAM, RME Ucx (+ ARC), Tascam FW 1884, M-Audio Keystation 61es, *AKAI MPK Pro 25, *Softube Console1, Alesis DM6 USB, Maschine MkII
Laptop setup: Win 10 X64, i5 2.4ghz, 8gb RAM, 320gb 7200 RPM HD, Focusrite Solo, + *
 
#66
Sanderxpander
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Re: Is Sonar Platinum Too Much for A Beginner? 2016/06/08 18:00:31 (permalink)
I think husker has figured it out pretty well and his A, B, C, D all work out. I would also be inclined to agree with his assessment that a dedicated interface is better, even if the workstation provides a few options. No workstation I know of save the Korg Oasys offers phantom power on the inputs for instance, so if vocals or guitar are ever going to be recorded with a studio condenser mic that would be an instant (obviously ultimately solvable) issue. Also, you could take the laptop and interface to the couch, on a trip, whatever, and still work with headphones in high quality.
#67
Anderton
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Re: Is Sonar Platinum Too Much for A Beginner? 2016/06/08 18:13:03 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby abacab 2016/06/08 20:24:32
husker
I guess I really have derailed my original question.



Maybe so, but I think you started a very interesting and valuable thread that encouraged lots of good discussion. The information here will be helpful to many others as well.
 
I think abacab made a great point with "The more you learn, then the more you can narrow down the scope of a question or a problem." To that, I'd add the more precisely you can define what you want to do with computer-based recording, the easier it will be to choose the path that accomplishes you want to do.
 

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
#68
abacab
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Re: Is Sonar Platinum Too Much for A Beginner? 2016/06/08 18:38:24 (permalink)
azslow3
 

I also consider US-2x2 (for different interface the answer can be different). In general, everything is correct... but with small corrections:
 
A. you will need 2 MIDI cables (2 directions). Or you can use one USB cable instead (just for MIDI in this setup, there is no limitation how many different MIDI inputs/outputs are used simultaneously and either they are coming from the same hardware as audio)
B. and C. US-2x2 has combo jacks, fro XRL or TS or TRS. So you will need 1/4 to 1/4 cables, not 1/4 to XLR
D. US-2x2 can run in standalone mode, you will just need a power supply for it (so it works with the computer switched off). No need to reconnect monitors then.
 
But I repeat one more time. As already mentioned by Abacab, you do not need that extra interface in such setup, even in case you get it.
 
@abacab:
People here have understood the original post, the background and wishes. And it looks like I am not alone who with the same background and the same wishes has started to use Sonar several years ago. And so people mention how these wishes and setups have changed over time. Not to force anything, just for information...




Was not trying to single anybody out for lack of empathy.  Just my attempt to cushion the "brain dump" for a beginner's perspective.  In fact, you provided some really useful info!

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#69
gunboatdiplomacy
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Re: Is Sonar Platinum Too Much for A Beginner? 2016/06/08 20:17:37 (permalink)
husker
As I said, I have no experience whatsoever with DAW or recording, so I have a "clean slate."  

Do you know anybody who plays with this kind of stuff? I was in a band back in the turn of the century and learned from a guy who was helping us record our demo. He had DP 2 or 3 and he gave me the disk to install on my laptop and I basically sat at his elbow and watched him work.
 
I use Reason a lot with Sonar and while Sonar is my main piece of software, I can't recommend Reason enough to beginners. the downside with Reason is that they closed their forum and so a great resource was lost.
 
I also don't know if you need a keyboard workstation if youre just starting out. you'll end up with a lot of duplicated functions that you'll never use on the keyboard. obviously you want a good keyboard feel, but it seems like a huge outlay for a "beginner"
 
EDIT TO ADD: sorry I see you're set on the workstation (and for a sound reason).
post edited by gunboatdiplomacy - 2016/06/08 20:41:51
#70
abacab
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Re: Is Sonar Platinum Too Much for A Beginner? 2016/06/08 22:21:45 (permalink)
azslow3
 
I also consider US-2x2 (for different interface the answer can be different). In general, everything is correct... but with small corrections:
 
A. you will need 2 MIDI cables (2 directions). Or you can use one USB cable instead (just for MIDI in this setup, there is no limitation how many different MIDI inputs/outputs are used simultaneously and either they are coming from the same hardware as audio)
B. and C. US-2x2 has combo jacks, fro XRL or TS or TRS. So you will need 1/4 to 1/4 cables, not 1/4 to XLR
D. US-2x2 can run in standalone mode, you will just need a power supply for it (so it works with the computer switched off). No need to reconnect monitors then.


Just to add, it appears that the previously mentioned Tascam US-2x2 is also capable of standalone use, with an optional power adapter. For instance, if you wanted to play the keyboard through your monitors without starting the PC and/or Sonar.
 
From the Tascam reference manual: http://tascam.com/product/us-2x2/downloads/
 
9 – Standalone Mode
Overview
This unit will operate in standalone mode if it is turned on when
it is not connected to a computer by USB.
You can use this unit as a mic preamp and to monitor input
signals.
This function is convenient when you want to practice an
instrument without recording, for example.
However, when using US-2x2 in standalone mode, a TASCAM
PS-P520 DC5V AC adapter (sold separately), which is designed
for use with this unit, is necessary.

Settings in standalone mode
When operating in standalone mode, input signals pass-through
the built-in digital mixer and output selector, which are set at
fixed values, and are output from the output jacks. In addition,
when operating in standalone mode, the USB indicator will
blink.
 

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#71
Markubl2
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Re: Is Sonar Platinum Too Much for A Beginner? 2016/06/09 12:22:02 (permalink)
Sincere thanks to each of you for helping me out over the past few days on my questions.  This has been BY FAR the most helpful forum I have visited.  Quite honestly, you guys are the reason I will probably pull the trigger on Sonar.  
 
Now, I just need to decide which interface to use, Gen2 Focusrite or the Tascam US 2x2.  The Focusrite is newer and seems to get a bit better reviews, but the Tascam includes a version of Sonar I could use to get a cheaper SPLAT upgrade, and can be powered either USB or wall plug.
 
Again, thank you.
#72
spacey
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Re: Is Sonar Platinum Too Much for A Beginner? 2016/06/09 13:02:59 (permalink)
Both have free shipping if you're a prime member at Amazon.
 
Focusrite is boasting low latency and the Tascam isn't...Amazon info I read.
 
Not knowing about either I'd go with the Tascam. It's cheaper, looks better and has an offer that could benefit you.
Amazon is great for returns for prime members-not sure if one isn't, so it's really not much of a gamble when you're not sure. Don't like it send it back and try the Focusrite.
#73
ChristopherM
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Re: Is Sonar Platinum Too Much for A Beginner? 2016/06/09 13:14:56 (permalink)
Is Sonar Platinum Too Much for A Beginner? It's too much for someone with more than twenty years' experience with Cakewalk products. I still find myself reaching (clicking?) for the Reference Manual and searching its 2188 pages for answers more often than I'd like. Sometimes I can't even find a way of framing the question.
#74
abacab
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Re: Is Sonar Platinum Too Much for A Beginner? 2016/06/09 13:57:10 (permalink)
husker
Sincere thanks to each of you for helping me out over the past few days on my questions.  This has been BY FAR the most helpful forum I have visited.  Quite honestly, you guys are the reason I will probably pull the trigger on Sonar.  
 
Now, I just need to decide which interface to use, Gen2 Focusrite or the Tascam US 2x2.  The Focusrite is newer and seems to get a bit better reviews, but the Tascam includes a version of Sonar I could use to get a cheaper SPLAT upgrade, and can be powered either USB or wall plug.
 
Again, thank you.




Tascam US-2x2 is $105 at Amazon (not including $40 for wall plug).  The US-4x4 is $195 including the wall plug.  Plus Amazon has a liberal return policy up to 30 days.

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#75
bapu
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Re: Is Sonar Platinum Too Much for A Beginner? 2016/06/09 14:20:40 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Zargg71 2016/06/09 17:38:59
ChristopherM
Sometimes I can't even find a way of framing the question.



HTH
#76
djwayne
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Re: Is Sonar Platinum Too Much for A Beginner? 2016/06/09 14:23:07 (permalink)
Is Sonar too much for a beginner ?? If I could start over and just buy Sonar instead of all the other stuff I bought, I would have saved many thousands of dollars over the long run.
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Anderton
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Re: Is Sonar Platinum Too Much for A Beginner? 2016/06/09 15:50:23 (permalink)
I use the TASCAM US-2x2 while travelling, the US-4x4 in the office, and the US-20x20 in my studio. Of course you might expect I'd use TASCAM because it's a Gibson Brand, however no one is looking over my shoulder in my home studio so I can use whatever I want 
 
I've reviewed several Focusrite interfaces and there's no question the company knows how to make quality interfaces, and they are very popular for a reason. However, I've also tested the TASCAM interfaces because they exceeded my expectations compared to previous generations, and I wanted to see if the improvements I heard were measurable.
 
I used these measurements as the basis for a Cakewalk blog post "Five Questions about Audio Specs." As you'll see, TASCAM's specs back up their claims.
 
 

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
#78
raweber
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Re: Is Sonar Platinum Too Much for A Beginner? 2016/06/09 16:24:55 (permalink)
Husker, it looks like you're well on your way. Here are my 2 cents:
 
You asked earlier if there were non-workstation keyboards with with lots of sounds. The good news is YES! The Yamaha S90-XS and the Roland Juno DS-88 would be examples of those. I'm sure Korg, Kurzweil and Nord all have their versions, too. Buying a "performance" keyboard over a workstation would probably save you $1000 or more from your total cost and you wouldn'y be buying redundant features. I have a Yamaha S90-ES (XS predecessor) that I only use the sounds for playing live. Otherwise it functions purely as a MIDI controller. FYI, I don't both with MIDI cables, just plug directly into my computer via USB.
 
The Tascam interface will work fine for you provided is works at all for you. I tried a Tascam a couple of years ago and it didn't work with my computer. Returned it for a Focusrite Scarlett and haven't looked back. Since the Scarlett isn't bus-powered (separate wall plug) and I don't turn it off I can sit down and play the Yamaha without the computer any time I want. I assume the Tascam has a wall-powered option.
 
So, I would start there and with SPLAT (what other answer did you expect from this forum?) I might have recommended Studio One but recent upgrades to Sonar have pushed it even to above everything else out there (don't even bother with Pro Tools). Add to this a decent set of powered monitors (KRK Rokit 5's are popular options - I own a pair and have no real complaints).
 
Later, when you want to add more to your system. I would look at an Arturia Analog Factory which will get you a decent MIDI controller with lots of features and a ton of analog modeled sounds to play with. As mentioned earlier, you can't go wrong with NI Komplete.
 
Good luck, have fun and keep asking questions!

Rob Weber
Poser Composer
Music Prodution Blog: Notes from the Shore
Free Praise Music: All Things New Ministries
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