ActiveAxE
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Is Sonar X3 Live-ready?
I have not purchased Sonar X3 as of yet (just purchased X2 a month ago) - I'm just wondering if Sonar X3 is pretty much "live-ready", meaning that it doesn't stop the playback for every other thing?
I'll be in some concerts soon and it would be useful using on-stage...
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Brando
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Re: Is Sonar X3 Live-ready?
2013/10/01 12:13:54
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ActiveAxE I have not purchased Sonar X3 as of yet (just purchased X2 a month ago) - I'm just wondering if Sonar X3 is pretty much "live-ready", meaning that it doesn't stop the playback for every other thing?
I'll be in some concerts soon and it would be useful using on-stage...
I think X3 is better than X2 in that respect, IMO. But I personally would look at something more geared towards live use like this - http://www.brainspawn.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=44&Itemid=66 or Ableton Live - not for primarily MIDI though IMO.
Brando Cakewalk, Studio One Pro, Reaper Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL ASUS Prime Z370-A LGA1151, 32GB DDR4, Intel 8700K i7, 500 GB SSD, 3 x 1TB HDD, Windows 10 Pro 64
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ActiveAxE
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Re: Is Sonar X3 Live-ready?
2013/10/01 12:16:36
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Thanks for the quick answer, Brando. It's just that I like to make use with what I have - Sonar X2 (and Music Creator) being my only 2 DAWs that I've fully learned...
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ActiveAxE
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Re: Is Sonar X3 Live-ready?
2013/10/01 12:22:45
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Are there still any major (or minor) issues in Sonar X3 stopping the audio engine to do something else (which would be a problem when playing live of course)?
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CJaysMusic
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Re: Is Sonar X3 Live-ready?
2013/10/01 12:42:20
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☄ Helpfulby ActiveAxE 2013/10/01 19:06:25
If your playback is stopping in X2 m,it will stop in X3, Because, its not a problem with Sonar. Its a problem with your sound card, sound card drivers, sound card configuration and/or your PC. Playback never stops with me and i have the same program as you do. This means that it something other than Sonar, like your sound card configuration, as this plays a 51% role in how Sonar performs. Your PC is the other 49%. CJ
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Dave Modisette
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Re: Is Sonar X3 Live-ready?
2013/10/01 12:47:44
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I noticed random glitching and occasional gaps characteristic of past versions when I would open a window or make adjustments. Normally, this doesn't bother me if I'm working alone but if I was in front of auditorium full of people it wouldn't be good. I'd opt for something else in a live setting.
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bapu
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Re: Is Sonar X3 Live-ready?
2013/10/01 12:52:04
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☄ Helpfulby ActiveAxE 2013/10/01 19:01:55
Mod Bod I'd opt for something else in a live setting.
musicians?
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Lanceindastudio
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Re: Is Sonar X3 Live-ready?
2013/10/01 14:03:44
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☄ Helpfulby ActiveAxE 2013/10/01 19:01:43
lol Bapu- SONAR is not ideal for a live show if you want to do things like insert synths, plugins, edit etc. SONAR is an amazing studio DAW machine. It was not built to be used live liek the program called "Live" lol. Ableton Live is king for this... Lance
Asus P8Z77-V LE PLUS Motherboard i7 3770k CPU 32 gigs RAM Presonus AudioBox iTwo Windows 10 64 bit, SONAR PLATINUM 64 bit Lots of plugins and softsynths and one shot samples, loops Gauge ECM-87, MCA SP-1, Alesis AM51 Presonus Eureka Mackie HR824's and matching subwoofer
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joden
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Re: Is Sonar X3 Live-ready?
2013/10/01 14:14:44
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Lanceindastudio lol Bapu- SONAR is not ideal for a live show if you want to do things like insert synths, plugins, edit etc. SONAR is an amazing studio DAW machine. It was not built to be used live liek the program called "Live" lol. Ableton Live is king for this... Lance
But doesn't Live have "issues" with running MIDI? Lack of bank and patch systems, no ability like CW's Instrument Definitions, etc etc? Live is primarily for audio loops isn't it?
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thebiglongy
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Re: Is Sonar X3 Live-ready?
2013/10/01 14:29:41
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This is one of the area's I wish Cakewalk would work on. I do a lot of our bands live stuff in ableton or with other gear. It's a pain in the backside to keep transferring things over to another daw to get the job done. I wish Sonar could be used in the way that ableton and some others can, but it's glitchiness when it comes to doing things on the fly is often a pain in the backside and as it has been said on this forum many times "Stop play back before doing anything". If other Daws can get it right and working in a live stage environment, then why can't Cakewalk? I'd much rather use a daw I enjoy using.
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Lanceindastudio
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Re: Is Sonar X3 Live-ready?
2013/10/01 14:48:23
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Hmm... ummm, not sure about the way you want to use midi when playing live, but midi tracks work great in Live. Like everyone in my crew uses Live to produce music, and it is half VST's or AU's (they use MAC) with midi tracks if not all midi tracks. Lance
Asus P8Z77-V LE PLUS Motherboard i7 3770k CPU 32 gigs RAM Presonus AudioBox iTwo Windows 10 64 bit, SONAR PLATINUM 64 bit Lots of plugins and softsynths and one shot samples, loops Gauge ECM-87, MCA SP-1, Alesis AM51 Presonus Eureka Mackie HR824's and matching subwoofer
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joden
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Re: Is Sonar X3 Live-ready?
2013/10/01 14:57:45
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Okay, thanks. I had read that it didn't have a decent MIDI capabilities but if you are using midi with no issues. Tell me, does Live have similar tools to Instrument Definition files (with upper bank functions) in Sonar? Or does it only recognise the basic 128 patches of GM?
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Lanceindastudio
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Re: Is Sonar X3 Live-ready?
2013/10/01 15:31:42
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You got me on that one... I don't go that deep with midi tracks, etc. Lance
Asus P8Z77-V LE PLUS Motherboard i7 3770k CPU 32 gigs RAM Presonus AudioBox iTwo Windows 10 64 bit, SONAR PLATINUM 64 bit Lots of plugins and softsynths and one shot samples, loops Gauge ECM-87, MCA SP-1, Alesis AM51 Presonus Eureka Mackie HR824's and matching subwoofer
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joden
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Re: Is Sonar X3 Live-ready?
2013/10/01 15:37:54
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No probs Lance - understand. FWIW I do have Live 9, but have never bothered to install it and learn it, only to find it cannot really do MIDI all that well (in previous versions midi was pretty much non-existent for any serious work). Which is the reason I have never installed it, after trying a bundled Live 3 or 4 (?) although I did buy the full version and have kept acquiring updated versions Cheers
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BlixYZ
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Re: Is Sonar X3 Live-ready?
2013/10/01 16:39:09
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☄ Helpfulby ActiveAxE 2013/10/01 19:01:10
x2 and x3 are both almost gapless for me. but ableton was designed that way from scratch so it's tough to beat. it's worth mentioning that the size and complexity of the project have a substantial effect on how gapless a daw runs INCLUDING ableton.
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Is Sonar X3 Live-ready?
2013/10/01 17:19:05
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Amen to that last comment.
Ableton can send bank select messages, 128 banks, 128 sub banks and 128 programs per bank are supported. I don't think there are instrument definition files. I use midi a lot in Live but to be honest not intensively for external hardware. I think there are some issues sending sysex too, where you have to get a Max4Live device do it or something I never tried.
Live is a great product to use, well, "live", and it offers some unique and interesting workflows for composition. I would never let it replace Sonar in a studio situation, though I do use it as an addition sometimes. My live needs are mostly based around freely selectable looping song sections, let's say 80 percent pre produced audio, with 20 percent VSTis. And then a lot of fx tweaking. I could never do this with Sonar. But if your songs are linear and you need to control a whole bunch of hardware synths and switch patches, send SysEx etc., it may not be for you.
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joden
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Re: Is Sonar X3 Live-ready?
2013/10/01 17:27:46
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thx sanderX I would be using it primarily to run VST synths (via virtual midi cabling) from midi backing tracks. Perhaps with some audio as well. I guess the main reason is to be able to dynamically change the sequence of a song in situations, for example, where you are playing a tune, and folks decide to get up and dance in the last 16 bars. Happens a LOT! I know I can do this using part markers in Sonar and assigning keys to jump to the markers, but with Sonar having such a bad rep for "live" work, I am looking at alternatives. At present I am using MP3 backing trax (my own recordings from prepared midi files) but this is pretty inflexible and not conducive to quick and easy editing...hence the queries re Live...although I don't think Live has any sort of "setlist" or playlist if you like, function so it is still probs not a goer anyway
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Is Sonar X3 Live-ready?
2013/10/01 17:48:43
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I think i do basically the same thing in that case. And you have to ask yourself if you really need all of them to actually be midi all the time or if you could bounce a few to audio. My songs follow a more or less standard track order and I can drag and drop in entire new songs while the previous one is playing. It's really a great working concept if you can accommodate it in your workflow.
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joden
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Re: Is Sonar X3 Live-ready?
2013/10/01 17:53:07
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Cool, I might have another look then - I guess I could run the audio tracks in the same sort of layout as is Sonar (and not use MIDI at all as you suggest), as in each instrument has it's own track, instead of mixing them all down to a single audio file (vis MP3) Cheers
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Is Sonar X3 Live-ready?
2013/10/01 18:02:39
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☄ Helpfulby ActiveAxE 2013/10/01 18:58:29
Oh yes definitely. My typical songs consist of; 1. A bass track (audio) 2. A drums track (audio) 3. An extra drums track ( audio) 4. A harmony part track (audio) 5. Another harmony part track (audio) 6. Miscallaneous ( audio) 7. A live input for vocals ( fx type sounds) 8. Maschine (played and edited live, so midi)
Everything is pre split into sections/loops of course, so I can jump to the chorus or verse of a given song at any time, mix the bass in or out, etcetera. Keeping the track order between songs means I can select an entire song from the browser, plunk it in, and have roughly the same mix. While everything keeps playing. It's super flexible this way and I usually don't really need to edit midi synth parts while performing live ( I also play keys live), I tend to focus more on fx and mix, dj-ish.
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ActiveAxE
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Re: Is Sonar X3 Live-ready?
2013/10/01 18:56:59
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Thanks for all the answers, people... Currently since I've started using Sonar X2 I've been having minimal (only 1 or 2 that I can remember) dropouts in the audio engine. In a live situation I would definitely run Sonar X2 standalone and turn the color depth to 16-bit. My current interface is a Focusrite 2i2 running at 96 Khz - when I play through the device as I would live the latency is fine even without engaging the input monitoring - which is why I'd like to use Sonar as a tool for playing with VSTs and different FX chains live.
Thanks , for giving some technical info on the subject - I really do not have a budget to go to Ableton Live (I do have Live Lite but have not got into it); I've got things configured pretty much in X2 and if possible I'd like to stay there.
By the way guys, I don't plan (as of yet - I can't play keys) to use it to trigger VSTi's or MIDI/Audio Loops, besides maybe the occasional backing track...
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joden
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Re: Is Sonar X3 Live-ready?
2013/10/01 23:51:48
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Sanderxpander Oh yes definitely. My typical songs consist of; 1. A bass track (audio) 2. A drums track (audio) 3. An extra drums track ( audio) 4. A harmony part track (audio) 5. Another harmony part track (audio) 6. Miscallaneous ( audio) 7. A live input for vocals ( fx type sounds) 8. Maschine (played and edited live, so midi)
Everything is pre split into sections/loops of course, so I can jump to the chorus or verse of a given song at any time, mix the bass in or out, etcetera. Keeping the track order between songs means I can select an entire song from the browser, plunk it in, and have roughly the same mix. While everything keeps playing. It's super flexible this way and I usually don't really need to edit midi synth parts while performing live ( I also play keys live), I tend to focus more on fx and mix, dj-ish.
Excellent SanderX - yep that's about the same methodology I envisaged - okly dokly time for me to actually install Live 9  and give it a SERIOUS go. I still have all my Sonar projects with all the separate wav tracks so transferring should be a doddle. Learning Live won't be, but reading how you are using it I will stick with it this time I think. Thanks heaps for taking the time to explain it out. Cheers Dennis
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Is Sonar X3 Live-ready?
2013/10/02 01:47:25
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Enjoy. Live takes a little time to get used to but I'm sure you'll really enjoy it in the end. Some useful beginner tips: 1. The TAB key switches between arrangement view/mode and session/clip mode. You'll want to use session/clip mode mostly, but it can be useful if you need to edit clips or loops to use arrangement mode. You can freely drag audio between the two by grabbing it and then pressing TAB. 2. Control+J bounces whatever you have selected to a clip. 3. Ccntrol+4 switches quantize on and off. 4. If you want to make sure a certain song or session always plays at a certain speed, simply add "xxxbpm" to the session launch box on the far right. Example: "Chorus A 120bpm" 5. To assign any parameter to a key or midi signal, press Control+K (for keyboard) or Control+M ( for midi), simply select the parameter with the mouse and press your key or move your midi controller. They're now linked. 6. Live, as a stability safeguard, does not automatically add midi controllers as you plug them in, nor will it recognize any that you plugged in while it was running. Plug in everything, then start up. The first time youmuse a new controller, you'll have to go into the preferences and set up whether you want to use it to send/receive clock, record and play notes/track or control the live interface (or any combination). 7. Get a dedicated controller if you are serious about using it live! ;) It really makes a huge difference when you can touch live like an instrument and feel the immediacy.
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joden
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Re: Is Sonar X3 Live-ready?
2013/10/02 02:09:55
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Thanks - I am cutting and pasting those tips to a tips log  I have a feeling they will be very useful! I have a Korg NanoPad 2 and a NanoKontrol2 so these should be okay for controllers. Probs the pad would be the better.
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Is Sonar X3 Live-ready?
2013/10/02 02:18:31
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Those nano's will get you started. I use an APC40 myself, which is probably overkill in the beginning. But it's definitely nice to have something to trigger both entire scenes as well as well as individual clips, and that lets you navigate around with up/down arrows.
I should have said Control+4 turns Snap to Grid on and off by the way :)
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harmony gardens
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Re: Is Sonar X3 Live-ready?
2013/10/02 05:13:57
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☄ Helpfulby ActiveAxE 2013/10/02 05:28:16
I used Sonar 7 live for quite a while. It was Sampletank based for my sounds. I use 3 keyboards live and set up a templet that routed one to channel 1, one to channel 2 and one to channel 3. I then made combinations in Sampletank that I could access through the drop down menu that had the sounds I needed for a particular song. I didn't actually do a lot of "fancy stuff". they were mostly bread and butter set ups. I made up four files, one for each set, with the drum tracks for each song set to begin at a marker with the song title, along with a tempo map. I could then use the marker drop down to find the beginning of the song and would use the Sampletank templet to change my sound set up. I use patch changes to change the settings in my vocal plugs and just had my voice going through Sonar. My bandmate (well, duo mate) had a direct line to the mixer with his voice and played his guitar through his amp. We needed to use a separate mic input for him, so he could act as the front man if I needed to change Sampletank combi's, because it would make huge noises if I was changing combi's and my mic dropped out until it was loaded. It wasn't perfect, but it worked for us. I would only need to change files between sets. I've been playing around in X2 to use this same system in the new computer (I'll be getting X3 in the next couple days). I'm exicited because with the new machine (now in 64 bit, 4 core with 16 gigs of ram) I can load much more complex sounds and the mic doesn't drop out, and loading a Sampletank combi doesn't create any unwanted noise. Everything is sooooooooooooooo much faster, too. We've only done a few shows since I started moving into the new machine, but so far, so good. I'm sure I will be able to do much more now that I actually have a computer that can handle a large load. I'm looking to get something similar going with 24 bit sounds,,, etc.
post edited by harmony gardens - 2013/10/02 05:23:36
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ActiveAxE
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Re: Is Sonar X3 Live-ready?
2013/10/02 05:39:23
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Cool setup, harmonygardens! I think you answered my question. My use for it will be for guitars, but i can see how what you doing can apply to my situation. Thanks for adding in some info!
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harmony gardens
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Re: Is Sonar X3 Live-ready?
2013/10/02 06:32:51
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☄ Helpfulby ActiveAxE 2013/10/03 02:04:03
Glad it helped you, ActiveAxE. I'm REALLY psyched about having the groove matrix built into Sonar. I've been poking around with Live 8 Light, which I got with my Focusright 40, and it's nice, but with the groove matrix built into Sonar, now, I think we have most of what we need to make it work live with Sonar. I prefer Sonar's workflow in general. I don't know how fast a big file is going to load, but I'm pretty sure I could do a file per song, if I wanted. Watch the dancing poodle while I change my file... lol I think with Sonar now, you have the option of working in loop based creation through the groove matrix, and the familar landscape of a linar option, too. It's like Project 5 and Sonar got married and had a superstud kid that's growing up before our eyes. ETA,,, one other thing that I'm able to do now is run Winamp in my taskbar and make playlists for music during breaks. I can even play along with them in Sonar running them at the same time. I'm in heaven,,,
post edited by harmony gardens - 2013/10/02 06:47:51
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Is Sonar X3 Live-ready?
2013/10/02 06:46:10
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I don't mean to force anyone to use different software, I love Sonar and respect the idea to stick with one program, but I think you underestimate the workflow of Ableton in a live situation. That said, if you can get what you want then don't change a winning team :)
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harmony gardens
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Re: Is Sonar X3 Live-ready?
2013/10/02 06:54:27
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I'll keep an open mind, Sander. :) I am not done exploring it. Going from Sonar 7 with a gig of RAM is making me giddy in Sonar X2. I feel like I just woke up in a new century after being asleep.
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