Helpful ReplyIs anyone interested in discussing amps?

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ampfixer
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2014/12/08 16:28:30 (permalink)

Is anyone interested in discussing amps?

I've been messing with them for about 20 years, and there's nothing more I enjoy talking about. I'm not interested in discussing what's best for under $300. I'm more about discussing the merits of different output tubes, transformer suppliers, parts and design. If I ever manage to learn how to post pictures, I'd like to share designs I'm working on and maybe provide schematics.

Regards, John 
 I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps.
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#1
johnnyV
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Re: Is anyone interested in discussing amps? 2014/12/08 16:40:40 (permalink)
For posting pictures you just need a share site, The picture needs to be on a web site, that can be your own. Lots of free options. I have stuff on my own web page like the this picture here. Also I started using an extra  page I made on facebook as it was faster than updating my web page.
 Make your self a ampfixer facebook page, you can make extra sub accounts using you existing account.  Then post your pictures there, then all you need to do is right click the photo and   "copy image URL"  paste that into the dialog box in the forums picture tool. 
 
This is my amp for last 25 years, 1972 Princeton, no reverb. I had it rebuilt by someone like you. He changed the tremolo into another gain stage, so added a Pre and Master volume as well as Midrange. I put a Celestion Vintage 30 in it too. My son is an electrician and started learning about fixing tube amps as a hobby. So he re tubed it last year as it was dying on me. 


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#2
drewfx1
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Re: Is anyone interested in discussing amps? 2014/12/08 22:02:55 (permalink)
I'm interested, but I'm afraid it might be a one way discussion as I doubt I can offer you much knowledge. 
 
But I'd be quite curious to know how and why you might choose to differ from the classic sorts of standard designs from the 50's and 60's to achieve what you are after.

 In order, then, to discover the limit of deepest tones, it is necessary not only to produce very violent agitations in the air but to give these the form of simple pendular vibrations. - Hermann von Helmholtz, predicting the role of the electric bassist in 1877.
#3
ston
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Re: Is anyone interested in discussing amps? 2014/12/09 05:03:38 (permalink)
In recent discussions with a friend of mine (who's pretty knowledgeable about amps and such) regarding my apparent lack of valves (specifically, the vox amphones being solid state), for a joke I 'shopped a pair of engine valves onto the bins.
 
...and this got me to thinking along these lines:
 
"I'm considering the possibility of designing an audio amplifier using engine valves as the amp engine.

You need to convert a little something into a big something, so if you had a high pressure air source behind the valve, and the valve was operated by a fast actuator driven by the audio signal, then the valve would open and close at the audio frequency rate and the amount it opened by would be dependent on the amplitude of the audio.

Maybe a set of different sized valves would be the way to go, driven via a multi-band frequency divider."
 
So I did a bit of investigation, and lo: 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compressed_air_gramophone
 
http://www.aqpl43.dsl.pipex.com/MUSEUM/COMMS/auxetophone/auxetoph.htm
 
http://windworld.com/tools-techniques-ideas/acoustic-amplifiers/
 
The auxetophone link contains a link to a you tube video where somebody has a working model.  I think you can tell from the video how ridiculously loud this thing was!  ("It was capable of producing sufficient volume to broadcast public music performances from the top of the Blackpool Tower, and was said to be loud enough to cause people to vacate the front rows of seats in an auditorium.")  Using an internet interest calculator thing I worked out that at the time it would have set you back over £13,000 (in today's money).
 
Anyway, hope you find this of interest :-)
#4
Karyn
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Re: Is anyone interested in discussing amps? 2014/12/09 06:22:13 (permalink)
And that's why we (Brits) call those hot glass things Valves (not tubes) because they act the same way as a mechanical valve.
 
I'm certainly interested in chatting about amps.  I have an old solid state Marshall 2x12 combo that sounds awful, a 1963 Vox AC15b that I restored from the chassis up which sounds awesome.
 
But my favourite atm is the Trace Elliot AH1200-12 pictured in my avatar.  A bass amp?  Yes, and with its 4x10 cab and a 1x15 cab and 1.2Kw output it sounds INCREDIBLE.
But the best part....  it has a 12ax7 stage in parallel in the input stage with a drive and blend control.  I'm not a great fan of distortion/overdrive on bass but the valve does warm/smooth out the tone when used in moderation.
 
However...  plug a LesPaul into it and crank up the tube drive and INSTANT ANGUS YOUNG!!!!1!!  (that's called thinking outside the box )
 


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michaelhanson
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Re: Is anyone interested in discussing amps? 2014/12/09 07:01:42 (permalink)

 
I love amp discussions and will follow this thread, for sure.  I always learn something from following these types of threads, lead by experienced folks.  Here is what I am currently playing.  Strat, LP, 335, all sound awesome through real valves.
 
 

Mike

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#6
ston
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Re: Is anyone interested in discussing amps? 2014/12/09 09:11:49 (permalink)
Does any clever person here know what the limiting factor in valve size is?  They're still pretty chunky even these days, so I was wondering why miniaturised valves running on lower voltages haven't been produced yet.  Perhaps there's a scientific reason?
 
@ ampfixer, to post a picture, host it on a site like photobucket, flickr etc. then use the 'Insert/edit image' icon and enter the URL to the image.
 
e.g. 'Valved amphones'
 
 
 
 (That's not me btw!)
#7
BassDaddy
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Re: Is anyone interested in discussing amps? 2014/12/09 11:52:43 (permalink)
ston
Does any clever person here know what the limiting factor in valve size is?  They're still pretty chunky even these days, so I was wondering why miniaturised valves running on lower voltages haven't been produced yet.  Perhaps there's a scientific reason?
 
 
 
 


Russians have big fingers. More suited for stuffing sausage. (it sounds like a good idea though. I've chased tone down way goofier rabbit holes than that.) 
#8
ampfixer
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Re: Is anyone interested in discussing amps? 2014/12/09 11:59:51 (permalink)
This is encouraging. I don't think I can help Ston make an amp from engine parts. All the valves I know about are glass. As for why there's nothing new being developed, well, making tubes is a dirty, nasty business. All of the production is in eastern Europe, Russia and China. Back in the day, they used to be made in America, England, Holland and Germany. 
 
There are a lot of toxic substances that go into the coatings used to treat the cathodes and plates. Things like arsenic, cadmium, lead (sometimes in the glass) and other heavy metals. Most of the assembly is done by hand. In order to be profitable with tubes (valves) you need a lot of cheap labour and lenient environmental regulators. (In my opinion)
 
There are still some industrial applications that require tubes but it's mostly hi-fi and guitar amps now. Low voltage designs are beyond me. If there's interest I could post something on how tubes actually work. At the heart of it, the principle is one of differences. You have to have a high potential at one end and low potential at the other. This pulls electrons from the low side to the high side. A third potential is applied between the high and low to regulate the flow rate. This is where the term valve comes from. Trying to do it with low voltage would be tough.
 
I pick valves for my design based on availability, so I only use valves that I know folks will be able to buy into the foreseeable future. There are hundreds of different types on the market but most are no longer in production. This is an important point if you come across old amps. You have to avoid out of production tubes unless you know enough to rewire the sockets.
 
I know how you are supposed to post links but so far no luck. There's some sort of security thing going on with the drop box that I have to sort. Right now I'm building a newer design I call the Producer 88. It's a 15 watt amp running a single KT88 for the output. It has a simple 3 band EQ and is designed for the needs of a small studio. It will be documented in a series that I'm doing for thetubestore.com and posted online in 2 or 3 articles. I've helped them with reviews and articles for a number of years. You may find some interesting stuff on their web site.
 
If you have any amp related questions post them in this thread and I'll try to answer them. Remember, I know NOTHING about solid state. It's voodoo and I avoid it.

Regards, John 
 I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps.
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#9
kennywtelejazz
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Re: Is anyone interested in discussing amps? 2014/12/09 12:40:58 (permalink)
sure lets go Brit …..the guts of one of my amps ….only  200 made it to the US  I've been told .
 
 
 
 

 

 
 
 
 
you want some Fender ?
 
 

 

 

 

 
just a little taste to get the ball rolling  
 
Kenny

                   
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#10
BassDaddy
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Re: Is anyone interested in discussing amps? 2014/12/09 14:17:06 (permalink)
Love the pictures Kenny. Old amps  are such "caveman" technology. Love the Vibrolux, my fav amp. A Vibrolux has it's own sound, unlike any other Fenders.
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ston
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Re: Is anyone interested in discussing amps? 2014/12/09 14:25:59 (permalink)
ampfixer
If you have any amp related questions post them in this thread and I'll try to answer them.

 
Cheers for the info, that was really interesting.
 

Remember, I know NOTHING about solid state. It's voodoo and I avoid it.

 
Solid state and valves both rely on electrons working their bizarre magic, it's all voodoo :-)
#12
batsbrew
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Re: Is anyone interested in discussing amps? 2014/12/09 14:36:56 (permalink)
all i know is,
my (now vintage) Mesa Boogie Mark 2b, has been amazing.
 
purchased in 1981, it spent the next 4.5 years on the road full time, being tossed into trucks and back out weekly, in an ANVIL case, of course, and never broke a single tube.
 
it fell, from a height of about 5', face first onto a carpeted drum riser, broke off one of my EQ sliders, but worked perfectly for the next 24 years without EVER seeing the inside of a repair shop.
 
i re-capped the entire head back in 2010, seeing as to how it had been 29 years old, and the caps were only a little bit out of spec.
 
i replaced the broken fader at that time as well, and this is still my main amp.
 
60 watts, with graphic EQ, 6L6's, big big iron, that is a sweet spot of an amp for me.
 
there are wiring specs on the web, of course Randall Smith was one of the first to tout the use of PCB's in addition to fine hand wiring, and i can attest as to the lasting power of that design.
Boogies rock.

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#13
batsbrew
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Re: Is anyone interested in discussing amps? 2014/12/09 14:58:41 (permalink)
The Mark IIB is credited as the first guitar amplifier with a tube-buffered effects loop. 

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fireberd
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Re: Is anyone interested in discussing amps? 2014/12/09 15:13:46 (permalink)
As an old fart, I still call a "tube" "a tube", not a "valve".  I was in electronics in the US Air Force (1955 to 63) that was all tube as it was before solid state.  Also ham radio (General Class) and 2nd class FCC Radiotelephone license since 1961.  I also worked as an amp tech, primarily on "tube amps" in the early 70's, in Nashville (I was the Ampeg factory repair).
 
 
 
 
 

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#15
kennywtelejazz
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Re: Is anyone interested in discussing amps? 2014/12/09 15:19:54 (permalink)
BassDaddy
Love the pictures Kenny. Old amps  are such "caveman" technology. Love the Vibrolux, my fav amp. A Vibrolux has it's own sound, unlike any other Fenders.




Thanks BassDaddy ,    
 
my Vibrolux Reverb is a 1966 and it is one of my favorite amps to play out of …
one of these days I need to take some photos of her guts …..btw it still has the original speakers 
 
a few more photo's of my amps ….
 
the Super Champ on top is a Rivera I bought it new in 83/ 84 

 

 

 
I wore the grill cloth off my Marshall so I put the ugly metal protectors up front to  protect my speakers 
BTW , most people don't realize that this 4 input model Marshall is a super lead on one side and a Plexi style bass circuit the other 

 
 
I also have a couple of other tube amps ,they are basically the newer stuff that anybody can get a hold of pretty easy …
A Marshall Class 5 combo , and a Fender Champ 600 ….
then to  round things out I also have a few non tube practice amps …A Yamaha THR5 and a Vox Pathfinder 15 R
 
I love tube amps 
 
Kenny

                   
Oh Yeah , Life is Good .
The internet is nothing more than a glorified real time cartoon we all star in.
I play a "Gibson " R 8 Les Paul Cherry Sunburst .
The Love of my Life is an American Bulldog Named Duke . I'm currently running Cakewalk By BandLab as my DAW .
 
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https://www.youtube.com/user/Kennywtelejazz/videos?view=0&sort=dd&shelf_id=1
 
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#16
kennywtelejazz
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Re: Is anyone interested in discussing amps? 2014/12/09 15:25:42 (permalink)
Hey Bat , I like Mesa Boogie a lot   
I used to play out of some of the older models  …Mark 1 , Mark 2 , and Son Of Boogie …all combos …great amps 
 
Kenny
 

                   
Oh Yeah , Life is Good .
The internet is nothing more than a glorified real time cartoon we all star in.
I play a "Gibson " R 8 Les Paul Cherry Sunburst .
The Love of my Life is an American Bulldog Named Duke . I'm currently running Cakewalk By BandLab as my DAW .
 
https://soundcloud.com/guitarist-kenny-wilson
 
https://www.youtube.com/user/Kennywtelejazz/videos?view=0&sort=dd&shelf_id=1
 
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=427899



#17
ampfixer
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Re: Is anyone interested in discussing amps? 2014/12/09 16:14:38 (permalink)
Cool to see the stuff folks have stashed. Kenny, you should really be on the lookout for the 6K11 tube in your super champ. If you find a good one, buy it. Nobody is making repro's and NOS or used originals are almost impossible to find. Ampeg used them in a couple amps, but I can't think of another Fender that used them. It's a triple triode, or 1.5 12AX7 tubes if you will.
 
The Vibrolux Reverb is one of the holy grail amps, in my opinion. Good for just about any venue and real punchy with the 2x10 speakers.
 
I know a few guys with Boogies from the early years when they were still pretty simple. They were one of the first to use "board mounted" tube sockets. In their case, they drilled a big hole in the board for the power tube sockets to poke through. Then they bent the tube socket pins over onto the board and soldered them to the traces. When you see it, you think that something's missing. 

Regards, John 
 I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps.
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#18
ampfixer
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Re: Is anyone interested in discussing amps? 2014/12/09 16:22:05 (permalink)
fireberd
As an old fart, I still call a "tube" "a tube", not a "valve".  I was in electronics in the US Air Force (1955 to 63) that was all tube as it was before solid state.  Also ham radio (General Class) and 2nd class FCC Radiotelephone license since 1961.  I also worked as an amp tech, primarily on "tube amps" in the early 70's, in Nashville (I was the Ampeg factory repair).
 

 
Military and industrial applications drove the tube industry, and that military training was great. I have a PDF version of one of the USAF tube training manuals and still refer to it at times. It's never going to be obsolete because nothing has really changed. Ham radio was how I got started with tubes as a kid. My dad knew a veteran that was an avid ham and arranged for me to go talk with him. The man gave me an old Hallicrafters receiver that was busted and told me it would be a good learning experience to try and revive it. I spent months fooling with it and listening to broadcasts from around the world. I was hooked.

Regards, John 
 I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps.
WIN 10 Pro X64, I7-3770k 16 gigs, ASUS Z77 pro, AMD 7950 3 gig,  Steinberg UR44, A-Pro 500, Sonar Platinum, KRK Rokit 6 
#19
BassDaddy
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Re: Is anyone interested in discussing amps? 2014/12/09 16:54:40 (permalink)
I wonder how the new Vibrolux's will sound with Celestions. LOL, you can tell which ones were gigged by the brown grill. If they have slightly green tint that tells you something too. 
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fireberd
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Re: Is anyone interested in discussing amps? 2014/12/09 19:03:45 (permalink)
Our lead guitar player has several 60's black face Pro Reverbs, 4 old Twin Reverbs and at least 10 more old Fender amps.  He won't use anything else.  But, he is also a collector and has about 30 guitars, mostly USA made Fender's but also a Martin, a Gibson LP and a couple odd balls.
 
His main gigging guitar is a Strat with Blue Lace Sensor pickups and a roller bearing nut.
 

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#21
Karyn
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Re: Is anyone interested in discussing amps? 2014/12/10 08:11:14 (permalink)
A little bit of valve porn to start your day
 



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DeeringAmps
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Re: Is anyone interested in discussing amps? 2014/12/10 09:46:58 (permalink)
^
Now we're talkin!

T

Tom Deering
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Karyn
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Re: Is anyone interested in discussing amps? 2014/12/10 09:55:27 (permalink)
Calm down Tom 

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DeeringAmps
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Re: Is anyone interested in discussing amps? 2014/12/10 10:22:14 (permalink)
Old Marshalls and JMI Voxes; my kind of porn!

T
Anything made by Korg is NOT your daddy's Vox or Marshall!

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Re: Is anyone interested in discussing amps? 2014/12/10 13:14:43 (permalink)
I LOVE amps. I love amps more than guitars. I have WAY to many amps but love every one of them. I collect the 1960s Jordan stage amps. I've found two. One was found stored in a closet backstage at an auditorium, it is in great shape, the other one needs some small things, pots cleaned and I need to open the cabinet and tighten the screws, you get into the heads by taking the top handle off. Those stage amps are 2x15 combos, they actually sound pretty darn good, even the OD sounds pretty good. I have not found the "one" though. I have been looking for years for a Jordan Boss amp and Boss Satellite, a powered extra speaker cab.. those are the ones you see in the ads with The Turtles and The Mamas and Papas.
My first amp was a small SS briefcase sort of thing, I think I have lost it. My second amp was a Silvertone 1485 all tube with 6x10s (Jack White). It had two output transformers and two inputs SO.. you cold use a "Y" plug and it was actually like plugging into two amps... it was REALLY LOUD and perfect for playing "I Can See For Miles", LOL.
Then I got into acoustic, someone borrowed the 1485 and it was stolen.. oh well.
In the early 90s I decided to get a Strat and amp. I got a Peavey Delta Blues and thought I was in "high cotton" until 1997 when I got the internet and realized that there was a world of other amps and I needed all of them.
I got a Fender CVR, got it modded by Bob Clear (Admiral Ballsy). He added a switch to the back to switch a NFL in/out, basically making it switchable between a Vibrolux and a Vibroverb, changed the 5881s to 6L6 (I ended up putting the 5881s back) I hated the stock alnico blues and tried some Weber C10Qs, they were better but they were too loud and too heavy. I settled on a pair of Ragin Cajuns, they are the ticket!
Then I began to learn how to build Tweed clones. I bought a kit from STF then started to buy parts and build mostly from wiring diagrams, I couldn't find anyone to teach tube electronics and I don't know that I have the aptitude to learn the electronics, though I did learn the basics of how a tube works.
My latest amp is a Mesa Boogie Mark V. I always dismissed Boogies as nu-metal amps. I didn't know about the Mark series until talking with the guitarist from CVB, Greg Lisher who told me all the tones one those albums and the Monks of Doom albums were a Chandler Tele and a Mark III... I was sold and man! What a great amp, once you read the manual three times.
I still build from time to time, I've had two amps that I can't figure out what I did wrong. One just wont play and another has a hum I can't seem to find but all the others have worked great.
For a small jam I have two SF Champs and an ABY box or a Crate Powerblock and a Tweed Deluxe cab with a Texas Heat speaker, it is voiced like a JCM-800 and with an EQ pedal and and OD pedal, it will do anything.
I still want a new Blues Jr too... I don't think I will ever tire of new or more amps. I do need more room though!
I need to take a family portrait.
 
J

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#26
jbow
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Re: Is anyone interested in discussing amps? 2014/12/10 13:15:38 (permalink)
BassDaddy
I wonder how the new Vibrolux's will sound with Celestions. LOL, you can tell which ones were gigged by the brown grill. If they have slightly green tint that tells you something too. 


Try the Rajin Cajun, you won't be sorry.
 
J

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#27
ampfixer
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Re: Is anyone interested in discussing amps? 2014/12/10 19:34:27 (permalink)
Some of my favourite speakers come from Warehouse Guitar Speakers in Kentucky. I use their veteran 10's quite often, but I feel their 12" British flavoured really stand out. Good service and good pricing. I should add that for 10" Alnico speakers there's no better deal than the Eminence Legend 10/28. I can get them in Canada for about $90 each. There's nothing to compare for under $200. My #1 recommendation for a 4x10 combo amp.

Regards, John 
 I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps.
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#28
fireberd
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Re: Is anyone interested in discussing amps? 2014/12/11 06:41:23 (permalink)
I'm currently using an Eminence EPS-15C neodymium magnet 15" speaker in my steel guitar amp.   I was one of the "field testers" for Eminence when they were developing the speaker.  The first impression I had of the speaker was "this sounds just like the JBL K-130 I had installed in a Twin Reverb".  As it turns out the Eminence EPS-15C was designed to be a direct replacement for the Peavey 1501-4 Black Widow speaker.  And the Peavey 1501-4 Black Widow speaker was designed to be a higher power handling replacement for a JBL K-130 that Peavey used in the first Session 400 amplifiers. 

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#29
DeeringAmps
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Re: Is anyone interested in discussing amps? 2014/12/11 11:15:04 (permalink)
"for 10" Alnico speakers there's no better deal than the Eminence Legend 10/28"
1028K, my goto as well!
Celestion has some pricey ones, I've been tempted to give them a whirl, but...
I have tried the Italian Jensen clones (I have a 4x10 cab, 2x P10Q's set up to A/B with 2x 1028's),
more expensive, different; surely but not "better".
My first build was a cannibalized '72 Bandmaster Reverb chassis, and Vibrolux like 2x10 (1028K) cab.
Modern? channel switching design, Clean and Drive (PLEASE don't say "dirty") 3 spring reverb.
"I wonder how the new Vibrolux's will sound with Celestions"
If you could A/B it with Kenny's, I'm pretty sure you'd be disappointed, bear in mind my experience with
"modern" Fenders is very limited.
But, in that limited experience, the power trannies are pretty "weak", limits output power;
cuts down on warranty work?
Maybe John has some experience/thoughts on that...
 
T

Tom Deering
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#30
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