schwa
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Is anyone still using hardware?
I recently upgraded my PC and purchased SPLAT after being away from SONAR for 8 or so years. Back then, there were some real advantages in having my Roland JV syth, POD XT, and TC reverb hardware to do some of the heavy lifting for samples, guitar tones and reverb. Now, with Rapture or Sampletank, Overloud TH3, and updated software reverbs, it seems like plugs may have caught up, and modern CPU's are better able to handle the load. I understand you still need real microphones, and am considering upgrading my mic preamps. My old MOTU 2408 seems to be up to the task as well. But have you been moving to doing more "in the box" as the box has become more powerful? Or do you still use hardware for the sound? I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.
HP Envy 850, MOTU 424/2408, MIDI Express, NVidea GTX970, Project Studio 6 monitors, Mackie Control and Ext, Frontier Transport Solid State Logic Alpha VHD, UA LA-610, DBX 566, TC M One-XL, POD XT, Roland XP-30 Shure KCM-44, SM-7, SM-81 (pair), SM-57 Martin D28 Marquis, Strats, LP's, Carr Mercury, and Marshall Amps SONAR Platinum, Rapture Pro, Pro Channel Pack, Waves Gold, L3, L2, TH3 (Full), Amplitube 4
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Is anyone still using hardware?
2016/05/06 22:31:58
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Personally I think there are some really good hardware guitar sims (if you can call those hardware) like the Axe FX II and the Kemper. Same for hardware reverbs. But those are definitely a price class above the equipment you listed - software equivalents of those should be at least as good. As for hardware synths, I think romplers have mostly ceased to be useful if sound quality is a concern, though they can still fill out a mix sometimes.
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noynekker
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Re: Is anyone still using hardware?
2016/05/06 22:39:44
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Hey schwa, HA ! . . . the Roland JV80 synth, yes, still have one of those kicking around, but haven't taken it out for a spin in quite some time, since the VST synth plugins available today are so plentiful and amazing, and totally portable as well. I think if you've purchased some higher end hardware synths they are still totally usable, but the quality of sampled instruments available in recent years have made most of my old hardware obsolete. I still use some hardware compressors in the recording process, but many other pieces from 10 years+ ago, are getting recycled one by one at the local electronics recycling depot. I've noticed a lot of analog emulation plugins (eg. Cakewalk's Tape Emulator) in the market in the last few years, to try and re-capture the warmth that "in the box" digital apparently lacks . . . though the opinions vary about this.
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mettelus
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Re: Is anyone still using hardware?
2016/05/06 23:11:51
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Much comes down to preference and convenience really. Hardware requires more cabling and space, whereas software is often quick and captures dry signals. When editing, dry has advantages of gross changes after the fact (patches, etc.), but can also lead to an editting do-loop if not disciplined.
It is definitely worth playing with both options to see the pros and cons of each for yourself.
ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC), i7-8700k, 16GB RAM, GTX-1070Ti, Win 10 Pro, Saffire PRO 24 DSP, A-300 PRO, plus numerous gadgets and gizmos that make or manipulate sound in some way.
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mixmkr
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Re: Is anyone still using hardware?
2016/05/06 23:27:16
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my Roland XP-80 and JV2080...both loaded to the max with expansions are both going strong. Still use the Boss GT-100 and compressors on inputs, etc. I find all those still relevant, depends on the user. I did sell the ARP stuff years ago!!
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BenMMusTech
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Re: Is anyone still using hardware?
2016/05/06 23:37:43
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schwa I recently upgraded my PC and purchased SPLAT after being away from SONAR for 8 or so years. Back then, there were some real advantages in having my Roland JV syth, POD XT, and TC reverb hardware to do some of the heavy lifting for samples, guitar tones and reverb. Now, with Rapture or Sampletank, Overloud TH3, and updated software reverbs, it seems like plugs may have caught up, and modern CPU's are better able to handle the load. I understand you still need real microphones, and am considering upgrading my mic preamps. My old MOTU 2408 seems to be up to the task as well. But have you been moving to doing more "in the box" as the box has become more powerful? Or do you still use hardware for the sound? I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.
This is somewhat of a loaded question. Some will extol the virtues of hardware over software and vice versa. The truth is, if you know how to use the software equivalent properly, you shouldn't need hardware. Controllers are a different thing, and each to their own. The issue really is in the hybridization of a system. This is why...when you go in and out of the box, you only have a limited amount of headroom, and if you clip...that's it. Once a signal is in the box, and it doesn't need to go out again, and because you have virtually unlimited headroom...emulator software can then perform as their hardware counterparts. Think about it for a second. Most hardware has a sweetspot, and sometimes the sweetspot is just below or just in the red...in digital this runs counter intuitively to digital theory, which says the signal can't go into the red period. So how are you going to get the desired effect of emulator software if you can't push the signal into the sweet spot? And you can't if stick with the current digital audio theory paradigm. My advice is if you prefer analogue, then use analogue all the way, of course still using the digital interface and software, but remember to get that analogue sound it's going to have to be got from the hardware...you probably also need some sort of summing mixer to really beef up the signal either in the mix or master process. But if you can work out the digital emulator paradigm, which is more flexible...you probably wont shift back and your bank balance will thank you. Although I'm always buying Waves plugs, and of course I have my monthly subscription for Sonar...and by the way...WELL DONE ON LPEQ. Beautiful plug-in, I've only had one chance to use it...but I noticed the difference right away. It was very smooth, and as they say in the biz...very musical...made a huge difference to my master, which is what I use it for. Ben www.1331.space
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Jesse G
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Re: Is anyone still using hardware?
2016/05/07 00:21:52
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I still use a hardware Lexicon MX200 Reverb/Effects Processor. I like using it to add reverb to the vocalist when they are singing. Also, I still use my Presonus Eureka Preamp. when recording Bass, Vocals and Acoustic Guitar at times. There are so many options within the box now, there is isn't much need for hardware except for obtaining a certain sound.
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tenfoot
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Re: Is anyone still using hardware?
2016/05/07 00:33:59
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I gradually made the change over the last 5 years, only using hardware modules when I didn't have a VSTi that was up to the task. I don't think I have recorded any of my hardware modules/synths in over a year. I would add Kontakt to the list of VSTi"s that made this possible as there are so many quality sounds available for it. Sylenth was also significant in replacing my Novation and Nord analogue modelling synths. Also a big fan of Trilian for bass parts. I like to have an electric piano in the studio that I can just turn on and play. The only other hardware that I use is an Avalon 737 channel strip (20 years old and still going strong! ) on vocals and acoustic guitar, and occasionally a Roland HPD 15 to play percussion parts. I certainly believe that armed with Sonar, a good keyboard controller and half a dozen VSTi's you can create most anything. Another huge advantage of VSTi's is that issues like syncing synth clocks and sample rates and restoring patches are a thing of the past. As far as reverb and other FX go it is a no brainer. Once the sound is 'in the box' I see no good reason to bring it back out until it is done:) Vst fx have come a very long way.
post edited by tenfoot - 2016/05/07 04:09:52
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rsinger
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Re: Is anyone still using hardware?
2016/05/07 03:40:32
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I do a lot in the box, but as a guitar player I still use HW. I use guitar synths quite a bit - VG-99, GR-55, SY-300, and EHX Key9.
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gswitz
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Re: Is anyone still using hardware?
2016/05/07 06:50:43
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I think hardware can still be useful. I have a DBX compressor that I love. What happens to sounds going through that thing I don't know, but what I do in the box does not produce the same result.
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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MacFurse
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Re: Is anyone still using hardware?
2016/05/07 07:48:15
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Still using a Presonus Eureka preamp for vox and acoustic guitars. I had got right away from hardware with guitars for the last year or so, but I've come back to my trusty Deluxe Valve and bought a new Mustang floor pedal to drive it, mic'd cab only with no dry second track, purely to get some 'dirt' back into my projects. Now three songs into my next album and the difference is pretty vast compared to my last lot of work. So, I guess for me, I'm just not getting the results out of the guitar sims. Plus, the time, for me, is much, much (read much) less. I get my sound, press record, and that's it. No second, third, or 13th retry at getting 'the sound' later out of the box of bytes. I also use my electric piano, but not for any real reason. Now, if I had the room for an ol' grand and a real kit !!!
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Zargg
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Re: Is anyone still using hardware?
2016/05/07 08:40:55
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Hi. Due to lack of space, I do not have any guitar amps anymore  But I have a POD HD500 that I use, and I like it. It is quite versatile. But after seeing the videos of TH3, I might have to try it out. As for other HW, I have two channel strips with compressor, that I usually play my bass and record vocals through. I have couple of compressor besides them, but they get less and less used. I am thinking about selling them. So in my case I will probably get more mics and preamps (where I am located now), but I cannot afford the HW I would love to have that I already do have available as plugins (some reverbs, compressors, EQs etc). Just a little rant and my 0,002€  All the best.
Ken Nilsen ZarggBBZWin 10 Pro X64, Cakewalk by Bandlab, SPlat X64, AMD AM3+ fx-8320, 16Gb RAM, RME Ucx (+ ARC), Tascam FW 1884, M-Audio Keystation 61es, *AKAI MPK Pro 25, *Softube Console1, Alesis DM6 USB, Maschine MkII Laptop setup: Win 10 X64, i5 2.4ghz, 8gb RAM, 320gb 7200 RPM HD, Focusrite Solo, + *
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Krokodilen_SX
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Re: Is anyone still using hardware?
2016/05/07 09:06:46
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Well, Almost all my projects starts out using my Roland Fantom X. Since Its powered on 24/7 Its just a matter of hit REC and go for it ;) A guitar and a V-Synth is also routet to be captured by the Fantom. Its a great setup for getting any idea down fast. Transfering that idea to the SPlat is a bit of a hassel but not that bad. I have tryed the all in the box approach but found that I just got tangled up in sound details rather than getting a song down.
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tlw
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Re: Is anyone still using hardware?
2016/05/07 09:53:19
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BenMMusTech My advice is if you prefer analogue, then use analogue all the way, of course still using the digital interface and software, but remember to get that analogue sound it's going to have to be got from the hardware...you probably also need some sort of summing mixer to really beef up the signal either in the mix or master process. But if you can work out the digital emulator paradigm, which is more flexible...you probably wont shift back and your bank balance will thank you.
I use quite a lot of hardware. Analogue synths, real guitars into real amplifiers etc. I use plugins as processors and effects a lot, but almost all the sound starts in hardware. I have used software synths and by and large, with exceptions, I find analogue filters beat digital in the same way that pedals and amps beat "emulators". A hardware sequencer can allow you to create and track a music performance on the fly with a result that would take hours of detailed MIDI work to do in a computer. Sure, hardware can be expensive. But there's quite a boom in analogue and digital hardware synths these days, the availability of cheap decent sounding synths encourages people to try them and some of us conclude that plugins simply don't compare. If you're the kind of person who endlessly browses presets and loops hoping to find a usable sound I can see why plugins appeal. Ditto on financial grounds and I've been there myself. One area where I do use software is wave-table synthesis, another is sampling. In both cases hardware equivalents are just stand-alone computers anyway. Fashions change over time. Back in the early 1980s you could pick up a now very collectible Marshall Lead or Super Lead head for very little money (as I did). Because, it was said, valves were "old fashioned", "unreliable" and modern transistor circuits can do everything a valve can and do it better, or somthe sales pitch went. So lots of guitarists sold their valve gear and bought solid-state amps. Something very many later came to regret. As for recording levels etc. if you know how to do the most basic mixing then it's a no-brainer really. Just track at a suitable level to keep clear of convertor clipping.
Sonar Platinum 64bit, Windows 8.1 Pro 64bit, I7 3770K Ivybridge, 16GB Ram, Gigabyte Z77-D3H m/board, ATI 7750 graphics+ 1GB RAM, 2xIntel 520 series 220GB SSDs, 1 TB Samsung F3 + 1 TB WD HDDs, Seasonic fanless 460W psu, RME Fireface UFX, Focusrite Octopre. Assorted real synths, guitars, mandolins, diatonic accordions, percussion, fx and other stuff.
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kzmaier
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Re: Is anyone still using hardware?
2016/05/07 10:41:30
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Not sure if they are still considered hardware, but for guitar I use the boss gt001 and Line 6's hd500. Its a happy mid point for me. I tried TH2 and TH3 but couldn't run my sound card lower than 7ms round trip latency. With the external effects I use direct monitoring. I'm not sure why 7ms would make a difference?? That is what the sound card is set at, maybe its not the actual latency. If I go under 7ms I start to notice drops. I will definitely use TH3 for effects and re-amping. Just my 2 cents.
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riojazz
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Re: Is anyone still using hardware?
2016/05/07 11:11:44
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Still using the Roland Integra-7. I only produce composer demos, so working with software synths to get the perfect sound would be distracting.
Software: Cakewalk by Bandlab; Adobe Audition; Band-in-A-Box audiophile; Izotope Ozone; Encore; Melodyne; Win 10 Pro, 64-bit. Hardware: Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 2nd; Roland Integra-7; TCE Finalizer; Presonus Central Station, Behringer X-Touch. Home built i7 with 16 GB RAM, SSDs.
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tlw
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Re: Is anyone still using hardware?
2016/05/07 11:19:47
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kzmaier Not sure if they are still considered hardware, but for guitar I use the boss gt001 and Line 6's hd500. Its a happy mid point for me. I tried TH2 and TH3 but couldn't run my sound card lower than 7ms round trip latency. With the external effects I use direct monitoring. I'm not sure why 7ms would make a difference?? That is what the sound card is set at, maybe its not the actual latency. If I go under 7ms I start to notice drops. I will definitely use TH3 for effects and re-amping. Just my 2 cents.
Whether the 7ms is accurate or not depends on a couple of things. The first is whether the driver correctly reports to the DAW. The second is that a lot of interfaces have a "safety buffer" on top of the driver's buffer and many don't report this back to the DAW at all. The only way to be sure is to loop an interface output to an input, send a ping round the loop and see how long it takes to get back to the DAW. The easiest way is to create an audio track and put a sample with a clearly defined beginning on it. Then create a second track, armed for recording, linked to the interface input with a cable between input and output. Then hit record and see what the time interval is between the original sample and the recorded sample in the second track.
Sonar Platinum 64bit, Windows 8.1 Pro 64bit, I7 3770K Ivybridge, 16GB Ram, Gigabyte Z77-D3H m/board, ATI 7750 graphics+ 1GB RAM, 2xIntel 520 series 220GB SSDs, 1 TB Samsung F3 + 1 TB WD HDDs, Seasonic fanless 460W psu, RME Fireface UFX, Focusrite Octopre. Assorted real synths, guitars, mandolins, diatonic accordions, percussion, fx and other stuff.
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Cactus Music
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Re: Is anyone still using hardware?
2016/05/07 11:22:21
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I guess you can call a real drum kit hardware! I guess by hardware you are taking outboard synths vs soft synths as well as outboard effect boxes vs plug in effects. I use it all. My hardware is all still working so I will still use it when possible. I'm so used to what my hardware does so often can get a sound I want quicker. The software is a bottomless pit that takes away all my free time I could have been making music. So call me lazy but I use hardware when it get the job done when there is probably better software synth or effect hidden away somewhere too. Once I discover a new soft synth I like I swicth over to that. I have forsaken my Lexicon reverb and Roland delay unit and now just use the ITB versions. But it took a few years for me to be comfortable with them. For guitars I'm still outside the box for sure.
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Dave76
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Re: Is anyone still using hardware?
2016/05/07 11:50:49
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I have a Roland MIDI sound module that's a couple of decades old that I still use. To my ears, certain instruments like the piano just sound better than anything that I get out of virtual instruments but I realize that's probably just because I'm used to it. The ability to do zero latency monitoring with it helps a bit since it makes playing through a MIDI keyboard feel a bit more natural. Convenience and tweakability have been winning out lately as I find myself using Addictive Keys more and more often. I have a TC G-Force hooked up for certain effects. Again, to my ears, the delays, chorus, etc. sound better than what I can get from plug-ins. Also probably partly because I'm used to it but I think there's some TC mojo going on since, after all, those sort of things are what they are known for. Also, I really haven't found any plug-ins that are as versatile in terms of routing without doing something awkward with aux tracks/buses. My favorite piece of "hardware" is my Mesa head & cabinet. Nowadays, I find I do a significant amount of work through amp simulators just because they are so much more practical but I do still record with the Mesa a decent amount of time. I've been experimenting with a re-amper recently to try to get the best of both worlds.
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Soundwise
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Re: Is anyone still using hardware?
2016/05/07 12:37:33
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I just use preamps: Symetrix 528E Voice Processor for mics and Trakhmann Tube Colour for guitars.
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chuckebaby
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Re: Is anyone still using hardware?
2016/05/07 13:46:30
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I still use all my mic pre amps, tube pre amps. no matter how great the tube sims are getting, they still have not caught up to the real deal yet. they are close, but not that close. still use compression to tame guitar, bass, vox tracks as well, not much but enough to get a good signal. start with a good signal, you start right.
Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64 Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GBFocusrite Saffire 18I8 - Mackie Control
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Morvejones
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Re: Is anyone still using hardware?
2016/05/07 18:01:58
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Soundcard ---> Software for me for everything, all my guitar amps/fx are collecting dust at the minute
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quest4success
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Re: Is anyone still using hardware?
2016/05/07 19:03:04
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I still own a KorgX5DR sound module. I love the strings and the various horns and I have a Yamaha PSS 795 AWM. I can't seem to emulate these sounds and once I get them in the box, add some FX, it's on.
Music, as seen, through the eyes of Larry Bynum aka Quest For Success (QFS). http://www.thequest4success.com/Splat, Sweetwater Creation Station-Intel 6th Gen Core i5-6400 2.7GHz (3.3GHz Max Turbo Boost) 32GB RAM, 240GB SSD, 1TB Audio, 1TB Audio. Win 10 64-bit. Focusrite 6i6, Ozone 6, Komplete Kontrol 49, Komplete 12 Ultimate, Maschine Studio, MINILAB mkII, SparkLe, IK Uno Synth, Roland VT-3
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RD9
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Re: Is anyone still using hardware?
2016/05/07 19:33:16
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In my case I am happy to use algorithm-type software for synths and reverb/delay. I use sampled sounds for keyboards and drums (Addictive Keys and Drums). I do miss my old DX and ESQ-1 synths but don't really need them. So far I haven't found a software distortion or tube emulation to suit my taste so I use tube preamps/amps and analogue pedals (e.g. a Palmer Eins, Wampler Dual Fusion, Blackstar HT-Dual and Presonuus Studio Channel). I did wonder if any of the newer tube emulation algorithms were significant improvements over those in Guitar Rig 4 and TH3 but I assume the newer stuff is a refinement and things haven't changed that drastically. Cheers
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soens
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Re: Is anyone still using hardware?
2016/05/08 00:31:44
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I set out to keep it all in the box for portability's sake. I thought I could sample my outboard synths and replace the DSPs for Vsts. But I quickly found that some sounds can't be sampled correctly and others just didn't sound as good as the real deal. I also like using the synth as a controller so some of these units will remain.
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Anderton
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Re: Is anyone still using hardware?
2016/05/08 01:16:13
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All the listeners care about is the emotional impact of the music. The person controlling the gear is 1,000 times more important than the gear being controlled. I know that's a facile answer and it may sound snarky, but that's not the intention. It's more of a plea for musicians not to be afraid to express their emotions, and to place little - if any - importance on the medium.
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Tombo777
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Re: Is anyone still using hardware?
2016/05/08 01:36:27
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I use Hardware almost exclusively. The Tyros has a fantastic library of really great sampled instruments. The Motif is a another synth with great sounds. Then there are there are the Guitars which are samples only if finger picked. Since building my new Rig last week, I will start using VST Softsynths and samplers. Already running my DTX Yamaha Electronic drums using the Motif samples. Anxious to try XLN.
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eph221
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Re: Is anyone still using hardware?
2016/05/08 01:37:30
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I have GAS just like everybody. I've been psycho analyzing myself and I think it might have to do with the fact that most of my instruments and musical things that were given to me were given as gifts at christmas. So I'm trying to relive those memories, the excitement and happiness. Just a thought. Also,musicians tend toward obsessiveness (at least I do), so the obsessiveness of a new toy versus the pragmatism of saving the dough is a battle. Stop thinking and end your problems --lao tzu
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RD9
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Re: Is anyone still using hardware?
2016/05/08 03:16:36
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Anderton All the listeners care about is the emotional impact of the music. The person controlling the gear is 1,000 times more important than the gear being controlled. I know that's a facile answer and it may sound snarky, but that's not the intention. It's more of a plea for musicians not to be afraid to express their emotions, and to place little - if any - importance on the medium.
Craig, I understand you are trying to inspire and have always found your advice to be top notch. (e.g. I recently reread your article in Bass Player on compression.) However, I must wholeheartedly support Schwa in his request for advice on the present state of the software and how it is used; especially after being away for a while. I too had wondered what software and hardware configurations were in use these days and found the other posts quite interesting. Cheers
post edited by RD9 - 2016/05/08 04:27:38
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Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
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Re: Is anyone still using hardware?
2016/05/08 03:45:57
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Using more and more hardware these days, basically for everything that impacts performance (hardware synths, guitar & bass FX, mic & guit preamps, etc.) and forms the signal before it hits the box ... ITB for everything once the signal is trapped in the box
GOOD TUNES LAST FOREVER +++ Visit the Rehab +++ DAW: Platinum/X3e, win10 64 bit, i7-3930K (6x3.2GHz), Asus Sabertooth X79, 32 GB DDR3 1600MHz, ATI HD 5450, 120 GB SSD OCZ Agility3, 2x 1TB WD HDD SATA 600 Audio-Interface: 2x MOTU 1248 AVB, Focusrite OctoPre, (Roland Octa-Capture) Control-Surface: VS-700C VSTi: WAVES, NI K10u, FabFilter, IK, ... (too many really)
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