Paul Thomas
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Is it just ME ??
I'm getting very frustrated with trying to get anything productive done, as I am in a constant battle in getting sounds to work. I am a guitarist who just wants to record to simple backing tracks and vocals. I know you're probably thinking he needs to spend some time learning the software but I've had cakewalk in one form or another for over a decade! I've watched tutorials and really tried to get to grips with it. I am a solo guitar vocalist and am not keen on big backing track productions. I want to produce high quality bass and drum only backing tracks. My latest attempt is as follows:- 1. Download a midi file and import into Sonar Professional. 2. Find I can't use AD2 or SD2 kits as they aren't GM. (I'm sure it may be possible to make a drum map but too complicated for me) 3. I use sample tank as my synth for drums and Dimension pro for the bass. They work woo hoo! 4. I add TSS-1 synth for cabasa. 5. Try to record the cabasa on the TSS-1 track along with the other two tracks. The cabasa sound is playing on the keyboard. 6. Start recording. No sound. The sound from the drums and bass has gone as well! 7. Switch pc off at the wall.  This is a typical scenario for me every time having to stop due to frustration and not actually completing anything. Trying to get everything routed correctly and every button in the right position to get sounds to work is a nightmare for me. I'm sure I can't be the only dim person trying to use complex software? I may try just using one soft synth per project, in the hope that I won't get confused. Sorry for the rant. I really need one to one training with an expert to sort me out. Paul
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lfm
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Re: Is it just ME ??
2015/04/12 05:59:18
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☄ Helpfulby robert_e_bone 2015/04/12 06:37:27
#1. Can you get metronome sounding?
#2. Can you by clicking in interface of an instance of SD2 - get a sounding drum?
If yes, check this:
#3. Activate echo on TTS1 (midi)track and see if keyboard activity play something?
If yes, try arm for record as well on TTS1 track - just this one thing first.
Then start transport for record on control bar.
I would start there...
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snaut2000
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Re: Is it just ME ??
2015/04/12 06:23:48
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☄ Helpfulby Chappel 2015/04/12 06:30:58
You can solve the AD2 problem like this:
Switch AD2 to a GM-mapping in the map window wich you can find clicking the "?" (right top corner in AD2 ).
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Kylotan
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Re: Is it just ME ??
2015/04/12 06:27:28
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Paul Thomas
1. Download a midi file and import into Sonar Professional.
2. Find I can't use AD2 or SD2 kits as they aren't GM. (I'm sure it may be possible to make a drum map but too complicated for me) Yep, I get annoyed at drums that don't try to follow the GM standard. I like Superior Drummer because it has sensible mappings within the GM range. You can add extra notes if you want but it'll play back GM tracks fine. However, in Addictive Drums 2, try this - click the question mark (top right), select 'Map Window', click the Map Preset drop-down (top left), and select GM. You might find it does a better job with your GM midi that way.
5. Try to record the cabasa on the TSS-1 track along with the other two tracks. The cabasa sound is playing on the keyboard.
6. Start recording. No sound. The sound from the drums and bass has gone as well!
I don't understand what you're doing when you say "try to record" and then "start recording" in 2 steps. Is this 2 record operations, or one? When you try to record a synth, are you making sure you have the MIDI track armed, and not the Audio track? (Assuming you use separate tracks for this - if you use a single Instrument track, I don't know how that works.) And are you making sure that the other tracks, ones you're not recording on this time, are NOT armed? Otherwise, if you're in Overwrite record mode, you'll just wipe out what was previously recorded. The important thing about synths is that you don't record audio, you record MIDI. So, your first port of call is to see if the MIDI is there. If not - then either you're not actually recording it, or you recorded it and overwrote it somehow. If the MIDI is there, but there's no sound, then something has broken with the synth.
Sonar Platinum (Newburyport) / Win 8.1 64bit / Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 / Absynth / Kontakt / Play / Superior Drummer 2 / ESP LTD guitar / etc Twilight's Embrace - gothic/death metal | Other works - instrumental/soundtracks
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Paul Thomas
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Re: Is it just ME ??
2015/04/12 08:24:37
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Thanks for the quick responses guys! IFM - I started again, simplifying by deleting all midi tracks apart from bass and drums and using TSS-1 got the casaba to record now. snaut2000 and Kylotan - Thanks for the AD2 tip. I got the track working fine in GM mode. I had looked around for a GM mode and couldn't see anything. I should read the manual!! I think my main problem is that I don't fully understand routing within the software, which is the cause of most of my woes. I've just realised that the midi and instrument tracks have different input options available! I couldn't understand why sometimes synth outputs were available and sometimes not - doh  . I should have spent much more time reading the basics of the programme before heading off to record. I wonder if there will ever be a time when all the routing is automatic for people with short attention spans. 
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Anderton
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Re: Is it just ME ??
2015/04/12 10:51:44
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☄ Helpfulby Paul Thomas 2015/04/14 15:42:21
Paul Thomas
I wonder if there will ever be a time when all the routing is automatic for people with short attention spans.
Well, if you get to the point where you use a consistent setup, you can save it as a template file and have everything open up the way you want when you start a project. Track templates are great too, I have one for guitar. When I start a project, I bring in the guitar track template and all the ins and outs are set, along with a couple of my FX chains (Classic and Hard Rock so I can select one and have a starting point). Cakewalk has produced a ton of tutorial videos. Some of them cover operation on a very basic level, some are pretty deep. Go to the CakeTV section under community and then SONAR University.
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bapu
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Re: Is it just ME ??
2015/04/12 13:54:05
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Paul Thomas
Is it just ME ?? Yup. 
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Paul Thomas
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Re: Is it just ME ??
2015/04/12 17:25:13
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Anderton
Paul Thomas
I wonder if there will ever be a time when all the routing is automatic for people with short attention spans.
Well, if you get to the point where you use a consistent setup, you can save it as a template file and have everything open up the way you want when you start a project. Track templates are great too, I have one for guitar. When I start a project, I bring in the guitar track template and all the ins and outs are set, along with a couple of my FX chains (Classic and Hard Rock so I can select one and have a starting point).
Cakewalk has produced . Some of them cover operation on a very basic level, some are pretty deep. Go to the CakeTV section under community and then SONAR University.
Thanks Anderton. Much appreciated.
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John T
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Re: Is it just ME ??
2015/04/12 20:45:53
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I think there's a point worth making here, that isn't made often enough.
There's a whole industry, of which Cakewalk is certainly a part, that trades, partly, on the claim "It's now easy to make professional sounding music on your computer!"
Well, it's really not easy. It's easier than it used to be, but it's still pretty much a skilled craft. You need to learn about audio engineering. You need to learn about acoustics. You need to learn about MIDI. You need to learn about synths. And so on, and so on.
Now, if someone doesn't especially want to learn those things, that doesn't make them a doofus or anything. Maybe it's just not your thing. And that's fine. I like to think I'm fairly smart, but lots of things are Just Not My Thing.
If you just want to make music, and all of this screwing around with drum maps and routing Isn't Your Thing, then why not try to hook up with someone who loves all that crap and collaborate with them? This idea that everyone has to be their own producer is pretty crazy, I think.
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AT
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Re: Is it just ME ??
2015/04/13 01:14:27
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I was just going to ask how long it took the OP to learn to play guitar? Cakewalk (and every other DAW maker) has a fine line to walk between making things easy enough to learn and complex enough to do it all. And there is a lot to learn. Audio engineering, which ain't rocket science but ain't chicken feed either. And midi, which can be like rocket science. And combining them together, along with computer tech self support (thankfully that is a lot easier these days).
I never did learn to play guitar.
@
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mgh
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Re: Is it just ME ??
2015/04/13 02:24:20
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I agree it could be easier but it is very complex software!
One thing that should be a default setting is that in track view the custom view for each track is set to all so you can see all the i/o, channel tools like pan and gain and the fb bin.
To the OP on the midi tracks the input needs to be the sound card or keyboard usb midi input, omni is fine unless you are using several midi channels, and the output is to the input of the soft synth you wish to use. For the associated audio tracks the input will be from the soft synth and the output to a buss (often the master buss).
So for me the input on midi tracks is Echo Audiofire Omni,for example.
I'm sure if you Google you will find templates people have created which will get you going
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dlesaux
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Re: Is it just ME ??
2015/04/13 02:35:08
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Agreed that there is a learning curve and it's measured in weeks not hours. If you want immediate results, any DAW is going to frustrate you. And if you are getting frustrated, this may not be a viable path. When I first started years ago, I also got frustrated but was also amazed with the results when I did get it to work. Stick with it and eventually you'll get there!
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BENT
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Re: Is it just ME ??
2015/04/13 07:11:01
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John T
I think there's a point worth making here, that isn't made often enough.
There's a whole industry, of which Cakewalk is certainly a part, that trades, partly, on the claim "It's now easy to make professional sounding music on your computer!"
Well, it's really not easy. It's easier than it used to be, but it's still pretty much a skilled craft. You need to learn about audio engineering. You need to learn about acoustics. You need to learn about MIDI. You need to learn about synths. And so on, and so on.
Now, if someone doesn't especially want to learn those things, that doesn't make them a doofus or anything. Maybe it's just not your thing. And that's fine. I like to think I'm fairly smart, but lots of things are Just Not My Thing.
If you just want to make music, and all of this screwing around with drum maps and routing Isn't Your Thing, then why not try to hook up with someone who loves all that crap and collaborate with them? This idea that everyone has to be their own producer is pretty crazy, I think.
Well said JT, I think we all tend to forget this at times....
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Cactus Music
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Re: Is it just ME ??
2015/04/13 10:17:11
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☄ Helpfulby Paul Thomas 2015/04/14 15:43:26
I too am a solo performing guitarist who make their own backing tacks. I've been doing this since 1980's. I mostly make my own but often will succumb to the ease of a download file if I find a good one. Most are pretty terrible. But if your lucky you'll have at least a good drum track to work with and build from there. It is best to OPEN a downloaded midi file or you loose all the important set up information. Importing will give you just the midi tracks and no tempo as example. On my system Opening a midi file will also insert TTS-1 automaticly. Start with the TTS-1 to listen and see which tracks you will keep. Don't delete them yet as they sometimes help guide you in the arrangement. Just mute them. I sometimes change the sounds and find they can be useful if you tone them down. I totally avoid sounds like Sax and violin, and the guitar sounds in TTS-1 are pretty bad too. I mostly am looking for drums then bass and a little piano or organ. I'll use Dim Pro for organ sometimes and True Pianos for the piano. I then will insert SI Bass and use the Jazz Bass patch If it is a lame bass part ( often) I'll use my real bass because for me that's quicker than using a keyboard to re do it. I was using Session Drummer because of GM but have since learned the AD2 GM trick and will give that a go. I often use TTS-1 for percussion sounds. It's impossible to wade through the percussion sounds in the fancy drum players. Learn how to split your midi drum tracks into parts to do this. You can turn those wheezy sounding downloads into a pretty excellent backing track if you master the beast ( Sonar)
post edited by Cactus Music - 2015/04/15 09:55:33
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bitflipper
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Re: Is it just ME ??
2015/04/13 11:54:43
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dlesaux
Agreed that there is a learning curve and it's measured in weeks not hours.
Weeks? What are you, some kind of genius? I'm 30 years on now since I started using computers to make music and I'm still figuring stuff out!
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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interpolated
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Re: Is it just ME ??
2015/04/13 13:15:45
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You're right, I'm still learning and taught Faraday every thing he ever knowed.  Actually I learn many things from random places, it's the sifting the wheat from the chaff is the difficult bit.
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DougCPilot
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Re: Is it just ME ??
2015/04/13 15:42:08
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+1 for what JT said!
And to the OP: No, it's not just you!
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Paul Thomas
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Re: Is it just ME ??
2015/04/13 15:48:18
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☄ Helpfulby John T 2015/04/13 22:30:58
Thanks for all the kind words and advice. This is obviously a great community and I wish I'd come here sooner to look for answers instead of trying to muddle through with my "I don't need a manual" attitude. Already made progress.
Cheers Guys :)
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FoggyMind
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Re: Is it just ME ??
2015/04/21 22:21:00
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open AD2 or ANY VST soft synth that you want to run old midi data in.
along the top of the plugin you will see VST2, click on the arrow.
go to plugin properties. check Do not intercept NRPNs...
now the midi files will work.
If the plugin does not have the VST option at the top of the plugin go to utilities/cakewalk plugin manager find and hilite the plugin that won't play the midi file click on plugin properties. check Do not intercept NRPNs...
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robert_e_bone
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Re: Is it just ME ??
2015/04/22 10:51:48
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In addition to the zillions of videos out there, some commercially available books exist on Sonar, for multiple versions (I think the X3 books are still the most current, and would still mostly apply to Platinum), but anyways these books are GREAT at explaining things in easy to digest chunks, based on functions. I bought one for Sonar 8.5, and loved it.
Bob Bone
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: Is it just ME ??
2015/04/22 13:29:47
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John T
This idea that everyone has to be their own producer is pretty crazy, I think.
You know whats way more crappy? The fact that today every musician has to be their own marketeer! Some musicians are terrible at selling themselves and are not successful as a result. Being your own producer is not such a bad thing to some extent, unless you really suck at producing. Many musicians know what they want to sound like. Its kind of like the old days when people in offices relied on secretaries to type letters. Who does that anymore? Well I still know a couple of computerphobe people who have someone type out emails for them :)
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mettelus
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Re: Is it just ME ??
2015/04/22 22:27:57
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Cactus Music dropped a nice gem in post #14 I wanted to make sure the OP caught. With no MIDI outputs enabled (important step) in SONAR (X3 and above), opening (not importing) a MIDI file will automatically insert TTS-1 and route it for you.
It seems you are using MIDI files to build upon, so be sure to do the above step first ("create" a project by opening a MIDI file), then embellish it. This will alleviate some of your routing woes. But save it as a project file (cwp) after initially opening it.
Even if you have MIDI outputs, it is good practice to disable those in preferences to take advantage of the above feature. You would only need MIDI outputs if sending them to outboard gear.
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Vastman
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Re: Is it just ME ??
2015/04/22 22:46:44
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Paul Thomas
Thanks for all the kind words and advice. This is obviously a great community and I wish I'd come here sooner to look for answers instead of trying to muddle through with my "I don't need a manual" attitude. Already made progress.
Cheers Guys :)
Hey, Paul... many years I was you...although I had to contend with Sonar 5,6,7, and 8...all of which totally sucked compared to what we now know... By the time 8.5 came out I had started to understand a bit... when the x series came out I screamed!!! NOOOOOOO! I'm just starting to understand...but wow, it has been truly awesome... comping alone has changed things for me big time. Templates... oh, what a joy and I still don't use them enough but am getting better..... it really takes some time to get so you can just create... till things become second nature. But as that begins to happen, wow! It is truly amazing what I'm able to do these days... songwriting in my wildest dreams would never have resulted in what I'm able to create today... I have to admit... compared to others on this forum I don't know diddly... but what I want to do these days is pretty much automatic and each week I understand a bit more... and it's what I need to know to do what I want. Geez, being able to wield real frackin' orchestras... oh man... I mean... this is like what I imagine heaven might be like (if I were a heaven believer!)... It's consumed me in the most exquisite way! The best part of existence for me... Hope you get there... can't imagine songwriting any other way these days... although I do miss the group collaboration (well, maybe not... ) Watch all the vids... and practice real time... I always have two screens open... to exercise my brain real time on a tool/technique... vid on one, a real song in sonar in the other.... Have fun!
post edited by Vastman - 2015/04/22 22:53:44
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mudgel
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Re: Is it just ME ??
2015/04/23 00:56:44
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You know, because I rely on various track and project templates I've created over time, if I have to do things from scratch I really have to stop and think about the process of routing MIDI and audio tracks to VSTis and busses etc. I have a process but it didn't come overnight. I've been hooked on audio and the recording of it since I was 14, I'm now 61 but as I've learned things, technology has advanced and the amount of science that filters through to users is far in excess of the time available to absorb it.. Short comment: always something new to learn. I'm also a musician and while the desire was there from the beginning, the ability to play didn't come overnight either.
It's a complex process, there's a lot to remember and while Sonar makes the tools to make all these processes a little easier there's no denying as others have said its just a matter of spending time with Sonar and getting to grips with the basics.
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