Is it possible to capture patch change wihtin the same MIDI track during recording?

Are you talking about recording patch changes while using an external synth, and changing patches on the external synth, to record Midi data or having the patches change while playing a Midi track? Both are possible.

What recording program are you using?

Thanks for the responses,  guys,

@Chappel - I would be using softsynths (not external hardware) in SONAR X1.  But the concept would be just as you described.

@Glenn - Yeah, doing the change after recording the track I knew was possible.  But, to be honest, I didn't give it a thought that the SONAR guide would even touch on that.  Thanks for proving the reference and sorry for not doing the leg work myself.  (Cakewalk help files make it hard to find the answer sometimes.)  However, I was hoping for recording or capturing the changes in real time during recording.  That's what I meant by "capture."  It was a late late night post and my brain wasn't very sharp, not that it's usually more than dull.  Anyhow, I guess going back to find those specific points on the timeline and "programming the track" would be the only way.  Would be nice to do it in a single pass (in real time).

Kind regards,

Living Room Rocker

Chappel


If you aren't using external hardware then how would you record patch changes during recording? What are you recording if you aren't using external hardware?

Uh, that would be MIDI.  I also have a loop back from my sound card with which I record the audio in real time.  So, for me, it would be both MIDI and audio.  But I am speaking specifically of recording a MIDI track (with a softsynth like Rapture).

Kind regards,

Living Room Rocker

Chappel

Living Room Rocker

Uh, that would be MIDI.  I also have a loop back from my sound card with which I record the audio in real time.  So, for me, it would be both MIDI and audio.  But I am speaking specifically of recording a MIDI track (with a softsynth like Rapture).

Kind regards,

Living Room Rocker

And what I am trying to find out is how you are generating the Midi that the soft synth plays. Where does the Midi come from? You say you aren't using external hardware (synth/controller) so that leaves creating the Midi with Sonar (PRV, Staff View, or Step Sequencer) or using a Midi file you got from somewhere else. I'm at a loss as to why you think you can record patch changes while a song plays without using an external device.

Ah, I was referring to a hardware (external) synth as opposed to a softsynth. 

Chappel

Living Room Rocker

Chappel

Living Room Rocker

Uh, that would be MIDI.  I also have a loop back from my sound card with which I record the audio in real time.  So, for me, it would be both MIDI and audio.  But I am speaking specifically of recording a MIDI track (with a softsynth like Rapture).

Kind regards,

Living Room Rocker

And what I am trying to find out is how you are generating the Midi that the soft synth plays. Where does the Midi come from? You say you aren't using external hardware (synth/controller) so that leaves creating the Midi with Sonar (PRV, Staff View, or Step Sequencer) or using a Midi file you got from somewhere else. I'm at a loss as to why you think you can record patch changes while a song plays without using an external device.

Ah, I was referring to a hardware (external) synth as opposed to a softsynth. 

Ok, I give up trying to get a straight answer out of you. Good luck with your problem.

Imagine this scenario...  I can change the softsynth patches with my mouse while the property page is open and X1 is recording.  To clearify my response above, I am using a MIDI controller, but not a hardware synthesiser.  I figured you could follow the logic based on your question.  Nonetheless, I believe the first line in this present response addresses your question.

Kind regards,


Living Room Rocker

b rock

To clearify my response above, I am using a MIDI controller, but not a hardware synthesiser. I figured you could follow the logic based on your question.

 
Most (but not all) MIDI controllers can transmit program (patch) change messages over MIDI.
Some (but not all) soft-synths can receive program change messages over MIDI.
 
Those program change messages can potentially be "captured" from the MIDI input.
Program change messages, by and large, are not transmitted by clicking on a synth's property page.
 
What's essential to answering your question is "I am using  'X' MIDI controller (made by the 'Y' company) to control soft-synth 'Z' in Sonar X1".  Then users of that 'X' MIDI controller can demonstrate how to transmit program changes, users of soft-synth 'Z' can tell you if it can receive program change messages, and Sonar X1 users can map out how to record that in a single pass. 

Hi Tom,

Thanks for giving attention to my inquiry.  In the case which the my question arises, person A (the preformer) is playing a MIDI keyboard controller, an Edirol PCR 300, and person B (myself) is/am at the desk recording from the soft-synth, "Rapture (full version), into SONAR X1.  Since I am at the board/desk, I will not have access to the PCR, but only X1.  (However, in a future event I may wish to use any real time method of capture the patch change(s)).  So, in this particular instance, all I have infront of me is the PC screen, a PC keyboard and a PC mouse.  As the performer (person A) plays, I (person B) want to change the Rapture patch and capture that while recording in real time.  Can you give me any tips in this scenario?

(I am not sure if the PCR can transmit patch changes, or if Rapture can receive them, but I will look into those possibilities in the interim.)

Thanks in advance.

Kind regards,


Living Room Rocker

b rock


The PCR can transmit program change messages, but Rapture doesn't support receiving them.
 
I can think of a couple of options here.  If the Rapture presets that you're using are contained within a single Element or two, and you have less than six changes in total, then a 'custom' preset would need to be set up in advance.  That is, copy and paste the core Elements to a single preset, and automate each of the six On switches or Mix knobs.
 
Multiple instances of Rapture could be pre-loaded with the appropriate presets, and you could 'fly in' the current sound with X1's mixing console.  In this scenario, the PCR MIDI would be sent to all of the Rapture instances, and Sonar's controls could cover the selection / automation process.
 
I can provide more detail later on; depending on your preferred approach (if any).

Hi Tom,

Thanks for the suggestion.  So fading in and out or off and on from mixer strip to another would be recorded as automation.  That way I can play back the recording as if the patches were virtually changing.  Hum, that sounds pretty cool. 

Unfortunately, the application here is not a well thought out performance.  Actually, I am recording someone who doesn't have a specific sound in mind.  Instead, he wants to record (noodling around) while we go through patches and work with the sounds.  Then, playback the recording to review the sounds and pick the patches to his liking.  Without capturing the patch changes, it would be tedious to go back and try to match the sounds, particularly if the sound is tweaked while recording.

Seems I am out of luck with Rapture, but since this is a possibility all I need to do is find a suitable synth.  Back to the books.

Thanks to you Tom and all others who tried to help me out.  Greatly appreciated.

Kind regards,

Living Room Rocker