Is it possible to link two identical clips for Melodyne timing correction?

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Beepster
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2015/01/22 10:54:50 (permalink)

Is it possible to link two identical clips for Melodyne timing correction?

This is a long shot but I have two bass tracks that were recorded simultaneously (I did this to have two different and complimentary tones on input). They're pretty tight but they could be a little bit tighter so I want to try out the timing correction in Melodyne. Unfortunately the only way to make sure the end results on both tracks are identical is to apply timing correction to the entirety of one clip, max out the correction slider then do the same for the other (this is how I'm doing the pitch correction which is fine). The obvious problem is doing it all at once and so agressively just messes up the timing to the point it is unuseable.
 
So I want to be able go through one clip properly fixing things as necessary then have those corrections applied to the other clip so they stay in sync.
 
Can Melodyne do this or will I have to use Audiosnap > Merge/Lock Markers function?
 
Thanks.
 
PS: Really impressed how the pitch correction is working for the bass. I stole that trick from Bapu.
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    Anderton
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    Re: Is it possible to link two identical clips for Melodyne timing correction? 2015/01/22 11:02:00 (permalink)
    I don't know of any way you can link clips, or save the settings and apply them to another clip. And yes, Melodyne works great on bass.

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    Beepster
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    Re: Is it possible to link two identical clips for Melodyne timing correction? 2015/01/22 11:05:36 (permalink)
    Anderton
    I don't know of any way you can link clips, or save the settings and apply them to another clip. And yes, Melodyne works great on bass.




    Okay. Thanks, Craig. I guess if you don't know it probably doesn't exist. Aside from audiosnap the other solution I have is to get the two bass tracks mixed/blended as best as I can, render them into one clip THEN fix it up but that would have to wait until closer to the mixing phase.
     
    Cheers.
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    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re: Is it possible to link two identical clips for Melodyne timing correction? 2015/01/22 11:08:01 (permalink)
    Long shot - what about using Vocalign? Would this work on bass?

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    Beepster
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    Re: Is it possible to link two identical clips for Melodyne timing correction? 2015/01/22 11:11:14 (permalink)
    Hi, Jonesey. The transients are sharp enough (picked)  so perhaps but sadly I'm still a lowly X3P user. Adiosnap will work fine but it's just more work. After seeing how quick (and non annoyingly) Melodyne does things I guess I got a little over excited.
     
    Cheers.
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    Beepster
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    Re: Is it possible to link two identical clips for Melodyne timing correction? 2015/01/22 11:29:55 (permalink)
    Another question... I'm looking in the Inspector for Offline Render options but it's not letting me select anything. Does using Bounce to Clip(s) from the right click context menu cause the Melodyne clip use a Melodyne algorithm for the render? If not am I just looking in the wrong place? I'm sure it'll be fine but just want make sure it's not using an inferior render setting.
     
    Cheers.
     
    Edit: Heheh. Playing the corrected track and the uncorrected track together creates a cool Chorus effect. Neat. I ain't gonna use that on this track but... definitely neat.
    post edited by Beepster - 2015/01/22 11:37:35
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    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re: Is it possible to link two identical clips for Melodyne timing correction? 2015/01/22 11:36:34 (permalink)
    I'm pretty sure that's how Melodyne works - you don't need to choose an algorithm like you do with Audiosnap - it does it all in the background.

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    Sanderxpander
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    Re: Is it possible to link two identical clips for Melodyne timing correction? 2015/01/22 11:36:36 (permalink)
    This is actually one reason why I I'm a little miffed with the VocalSync feature - I was rather for improvements like this to Melodyne or AudioSnap. But perhaps I'm speaking too soon and this is already in the works.

    I would love to hear a good solution for situations like this. Not just time but pitch as well. Linking clips somehow, so that Melodyne knows to edit both similarly when moving a note would be great. AFAIK the standalone Melodyne Studio does this in its multitrack iteration so perhaps they're preventing this on purpose.
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    Beepster
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    Re: Is it possible to link two identical clips for Melodyne timing correction? 2015/01/22 11:44:08 (permalink)
    Bristol_Jonesey
    I'm pretty sure that's how Melodyne works - you don't need to choose an algorithm like you do with Audiosnap - it does it all in the background.




    Right on. I just bounced and it sounds as it should (so far). Now to see if duplicating the procedure on the second track will work as I want or whether it'll cause weirdness.
     
    Next I'm going to export one track to MIDI so I can yank out notes to beef up my kick drum part. I recorded the drums live with my padKontrol using the expression pedal for the kick which not only means I only have a single kick it is EXTREMELY difficult to play so the kick hits are very basic and sparse. Trying to add appropriate kick hits via the PRV after the fact is kind of annoying and tricky so if I use the bass MIDI output as a reference it should be a lot easier.
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    Beepster
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    Re: Is it possible to link two identical clips for Melodyne timing correction? 2015/01/22 11:46:05 (permalink)
    Sanderxpander
    This is actually one reason why I I'm a little miffed with the VocalSync feature - I was rather for improvements like this to Melodyne or AudioSnap. But perhaps I'm speaking too soon and this is already in the works.

    I would love to hear a good solution for situations like this. Not just time but pitch as well. Linking clips somehow, so that Melodyne knows to edit both similarly when moving a note would be great. AFAIK the standalone Melodyne Studio does this in its multitrack iteration so perhaps they're preventing this on purpose.



    hmm... I think we can open Essentials standalone can't we? Maybe we can load two clips in at once that way then just import them back into our projects. If not then what you describe would be a good reason to upgrade along with the polyphony.
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    Beepster
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    Re: Is it possible to link two identical clips for Melodyne timing correction? 2015/01/22 11:58:46 (permalink)
    Ah crap. After doing the pitch the correction on the second track they sound all phasey/chorusy... and not in a cool way. So much for that plan. Gonna have to wait until I mix and bounce the tracks together into a single track. That sucks.
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    WallyG
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    Re: Is it possible to link two identical clips for Melodyne timing correction? 2015/01/22 12:07:33 (permalink)
    Beepster
    This is a long shot but I have two bass tracks that were recorded simultaneously (I did this to have two different and complimentary tones on input). They're pretty tight but they could be a little bit tighter so I want to try out the timing correction in Melodyne. Unfortunately the only way to make sure the end results on both tracks are identical is to apply timing correction to the entirety of one clip, max out the correction slider then do the same for the other (this is how I'm doing the pitch correction which is fine). The obvious problem is doing it all at once and so agressively just messes up the timing to the point it is unuseable.
     
    So I want to be able go through one clip properly fixing things as necessary then have those corrections applied to the other clip so they stay in sync.
     
    Can Melodyne do this or will I have to use Audiosnap > Merge/Lock Markers function?
     
    Thanks.
     
    PS: Really impressed how the pitch correction is working for the bass. I stole that trick from Bapu.




    What I have done in the past to tighten up two similar parts (i.e. two trumpets) is to use one track zoomed in as the reference and then put the other part that I want to adjust in Melodyne. I put the cursor at the beginning of the note in the reference track and then adjust the Blob of the 2nd part so that it lines up the cursor. Tedious but it works.
     
    Another way is to open two instances of Melodyne, one for each track, and put the cursor on the reference note blob and then adjust the second. Of course there is the grid that can be used as a reference, but if the parts are swinging or played with feel, the cursor method maintains the "groove".
     
    Works for me.
     
    Walt

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    #12
    Beepster
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    Re: Is it possible to link two identical clips for Melodyne timing correction? 2015/01/22 12:23:03 (permalink)
    WallyG
    Beepster
    This is a long shot but I have two bass tracks that were recorded simultaneously (I did this to have two different and complimentary tones on input). They're pretty tight but they could be a little bit tighter so I want to try out the timing correction in Melodyne. Unfortunately the only way to make sure the end results on both tracks are identical is to apply timing correction to the entirety of one clip, max out the correction slider then do the same for the other (this is how I'm doing the pitch correction which is fine). The obvious problem is doing it all at once and so agressively just messes up the timing to the point it is unuseable.
     
    So I want to be able go through one clip properly fixing things as necessary then have those corrections applied to the other clip so they stay in sync.
     
    Can Melodyne do this or will I have to use Audiosnap > Merge/Lock Markers function?
     
    Thanks.
     
    PS: Really impressed how the pitch correction is working for the bass. I stole that trick from Bapu.




    What I have done in the past to tighten up two similar parts (i.e. two trumpets) is to use one track zoomed in as the reference and then put the other part that I want to adjust in Melodyne. I put the cursor at the beginning of the note in the reference track and then adjust the Blob of the 2nd part so that it lines up the cursor. Tedious but it works.
     
    Another way is to open two instances of Melodyne, one for each track, and put the cursor on the reference note blob and then adjust the second. Of course there is the grid that can be used as a reference, but if the parts are swinging or played with feel, the cursor method maintains the "groove".
     
    Works for me.
     
    Walt




    Hi, Walt. That type of method would totally work for most things but since it's a bass track and needs to be one single pure source/performance to maintain clarity even the tiniest discrepancy takes things to mudville.
     
    Like what just happened to me when applying the EXACT same procedure to my dual input track. I figured it would apply the pitch correction with full accuracy preserving the relationship between the two tracks but I guess either they rendered differently or the slight difference in tone caused the correction to apply itself differently.
     
    This little experiment has given me some ideas though. One of which is instead of always have to physically double rhythm guitar tracks (as in playing two perfect performances) one could theoretically clone one track then apply slightly different levels of pitch and timing correction to duplicate performance doubling. It would likely be much tighter sounding but still cause the widening you get for double tracks.
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    Paul G
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    Re: Is it possible to link two identical clips for Melodyne timing correction? 2015/01/22 12:23:51 (permalink)
    Beepster
    So I want to be able go through one clip properly fixing things as necessary then have those corrections applied to the other clip so they stay in sync.
     
    Can Melodyne do this or will I have to use Audiosnap > Merge/Lock Markers function?

    Melodyne Studio will let you work on more that one track at a time but not linked, (as far as I know).
     


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    Beepster
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    Re: Is it possible to link two identical clips for Melodyne timing correction? 2015/01/22 12:26:08 (permalink)
    Paul G
    Beepster
    So I want to be able go through one clip properly fixing things as necessary then have those corrections applied to the other clip so they stay in sync.
     
    Can Melodyne do this or will I have to use Audiosnap > Merge/Lock Markers function?

    Melodyne Studio will let you work on more that one track at a time but not linked, (as far as I know).
     





    That's a shame. Seems like an obvious feature to have.
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    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re: Is it possible to link two identical clips for Melodyne timing correction? 2015/01/22 12:34:22 (permalink)
    Beepster
    WallyG
    Beepster
    This is a long shot but I have two bass tracks that were recorded simultaneously (I did this to have two different and complimentary tones on input). They're pretty tight but they could be a little bit tighter so I want to try out the timing correction in Melodyne. Unfortunately the only way to make sure the end results on both tracks are identical is to apply timing correction to the entirety of one clip, max out the correction slider then do the same for the other (this is how I'm doing the pitch correction which is fine). The obvious problem is doing it all at once and so agressively just messes up the timing to the point it is unuseable.
     
    So I want to be able go through one clip properly fixing things as necessary then have those corrections applied to the other clip so they stay in sync.
     
    Can Melodyne do this or will I have to use Audiosnap > Merge/Lock Markers function?
     
    Thanks.
     
    PS: Really impressed how the pitch correction is working for the bass. I stole that trick from Bapu.




    What I have done in the past to tighten up two similar parts (i.e. two trumpets) is to use one track zoomed in as the reference and then put the other part that I want to adjust in Melodyne. I put the cursor at the beginning of the note in the reference track and then adjust the Blob of the 2nd part so that it lines up the cursor. Tedious but it works.
     
    Another way is to open two instances of Melodyne, one for each track, and put the cursor on the reference note blob and then adjust the second. Of course there is the grid that can be used as a reference, but if the parts are swinging or played with feel, the cursor method maintains the "groove".
     
    Works for me.
     
    Walt




    Hi, Walt. That type of method would totally work for most things but since it's a bass track and needs to be one single pure source/performance to maintain clarity even the tiniest discrepancy takes things to mudville.
     
    Like what just happened to me when applying the EXACT same procedure to my dual input track. I figured it would apply the pitch correction with full accuracy preserving the relationship between the two tracks but I guess either they rendered differently or the slight difference in tone caused the correction to apply itself differently.
     
    This little experiment has given me some ideas though. One of which is instead of always have to physically double rhythm guitar tracks (as in playing two perfect performances) one could theoretically clone one track then apply slightly different levels of pitch and timing correction to duplicate performance doubling. It would likely be much tighter sounding but still cause the widening you get for double tracks.


    Beep, with the greatest respect, cloning & changing pitch/timing of the clone will never sound as good as proper double tracked guitars - and you can get away with a little bit of "slop" in your playing as well.
     
    One quesiton - on these bass lines, why do you need 2 tracks?
     
    There might be other ways to skin this particular cat

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    Beepster
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    Re: Is it possible to link two identical clips for Melodyne timing correction? 2015/01/22 12:51:20 (permalink)
    Bristol_Jonesey
    Beep, with the greatest respect, cloning & changing pitch/timing of the clone will never sound as good as proper double tracked guitars - and you can get away with a little bit of "slop" in your playing as well.
     
    One quesiton - on these bass lines, why do you need 2 tracks?
     
    There might be other ways to skin this particular cat




    These tracks were recorded using the dual line outs on my Line6 Duoverb. It has two channels so I had one set cleaner with more bite and the second with a bit more grit and bottom end. It's impossible to really get a single signal out of either of the channels on this thing that sounds REALLY good but combined they add up to something pretty sweet. It also allows me for extra processing options as I mix without cloning.
     
    The solution is to simply bounce the two together which was always part of the plan but I'm still essentially in the writing phase (the backing section is done but I haven't gotten to the leads/ornamentation/frilly dillies yet). So I don't want to do that just yet because I'm going to want to process the individual tracks once I actually hit the final mixing phase.
     
    Things is I am doing a bit of goofing around to yank transients to add some extra kick parts (using the MIDI output of the bass as a reference pool for possible kick hits) and I want to use the MIDI output as a starter track for some wacky synthesis stuff. I was hoping I could get the bass tracks corrected at this phase before doing that stuff so it's more accurate.
     
    Basically I'm experimenting with a bunch of things. I do have contigency plans and workarounds but was hoping I could get away with all this at this phase of the production. Ain't working out that way but I guess I'm expecting too much.
     
    Like I said... no bigs. Just trying stuff out. If something doesn't work it doesn't work.
     
    Cheers.
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    Beepster
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    Re: Is it possible to link two identical clips for Melodyne timing correction? 2015/01/22 12:57:35 (permalink)
    Oh and as far as the doubling thing I agree mostly but not in all cases. Sections with chords and stuff sure but during single note riffs that extra tightness makes things easier and cleaner. It's just a direct clone with no variation aside from something like a Haas edit isn't the greatest for even those parts.
     
    You gotta remember I'm working with some not so ideal gear in not so ideal conditions so I have to get creative. I'm a very tight player but just the act of doubling and auditioning/creating comps so those ultra tight parts match well is a lot of work. I figure this could be a cheater's work around that would get me what I want quickly.
     
    It is just a theory though but I've done alright with screwing around with clones for such applications. I just think this might make that a lot better.
     
    Cheers.
     
     
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    Paul G
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    Re: Is it possible to link two identical clips for Melodyne timing correction? 2015/01/22 13:01:21 (permalink)
    Beepster
    These tracks were recorded using the dual line outs on my Line6 Duoverb. It has two channels so I had one set cleaner with more bite and the second with a bit more grit and bottom end. It's impossible to really get a single signal out of either of the channels on this thing that sounds REALLY good but combined they add up to something pretty sweet. It also allows me for extra processing options as I mix without cloning.
     
    The solution is to simply bounce the two together which was always part of the plan but I'm still essentially in the writing phase (the backing section is done but I haven't gotten to the leads/ornamentation/frilly dillies yet). So I don't want to do that just yet because I'm going to want to process the individual tracks once I actually hit the final mixing phase.
     
    Things is I am doing a bit of goofing around to yank transients to add some extra kick parts (using the MIDI output of the bass as a reference pool for possible kick hits) and I want to use the MIDI output as a starter track for some wacky synthesis stuff. I was hoping I could get the bass tracks corrected at this phase before doing that stuff so it's more accurate.
     
    Basically I'm experimenting with a bunch of things. I do have contigency plans and workarounds but was hoping I could get away with all this at this phase of the production. Ain't working out that way but I guess I'm expecting too much.
     
    Like I said... no bigs. Just trying stuff out. If something doesn't work it doesn't work.
     
    Cheers.

    Here's what I would do in that situation.  Pick one of the bass tracks and copy it.  Mute the original two.  Tune up the copied track to your liking and then finish the song.  When you're ready, go back and mix the two bass tracks to your liking and then tune them.
     
    You could also copy both tracks and mix them, tune them.  If, when you're finished with the song and don't like the bass sound, you can go back to the originals and start over.
     
    HTH
     
    Paul

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    Beepster
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    Re: Is it possible to link two identical clips for Melodyne timing correction? 2015/01/22 13:11:47 (permalink)
    Paul G
    Here's what I would do in that situation.  Pick one of the bass tracks and copy it.  Mute the original two.  Tune up the copied track to your liking and then finish the song.  When you're ready, go back and mix the two bass tracks to your liking and then tune them.
     
    You could also copy both tracks and mix them, tune them.  If, when you're finished with the song and don't like the bass sound, you can go back to the originals and start over.
     
    HTH
     
    Paul




    Yeah, that's pretty much along the lines of what I'm thinking but honestly it's not even all that crucial at this phase anyway. I'd just been dragging my feet at giving Melodyne a real go and since I was doing the kick drum experiment today (really the main thing I want to do today is beef up my basic drum track which is good but sparse) I figured I try out these other plans as well.
     
    I think it's going to all be about mixing the two tracks down and treating them as one. They sound pretty good as is so I'm just being anal. I can do whatever I want to final render anyway on track and at bus level.
     
    Thanks.
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    Sanderxpander
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    Re: Is it possible to link two identical clips for Melodyne timing correction? 2015/01/22 13:16:16 (permalink)
    Oh I thought in Melodyne Studio you could select two notes across two tracks and move them at the same time. Don't know why I assumed that, guess it seemed to make sense.

    I've been doing visual time alignment with the suggested method too. VocalSync should help there, next time. Ideally, I'd like this feature within AudioSnap or Melodyne. At the very least a better way to visualize things as opposed to guessing, then bouncing, going back etc.
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    Beepster
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    Re: Is it possible to link two identical clips for Melodyne timing correction? 2015/01/22 13:22:41 (permalink)
    Sanderxpander
    Oh I thought in Melodyne Studio you could select two notes across two tracks and move them at the same time. Don't know why I assumed that, guess it seemed to make sense.

    I've been doing visual time alignment with the suggested method too. VocalSync should help there, next time. Ideally, I'd like this feature within AudioSnap or Melodyne. At the very least a better way to visualize things as opposed to guessing, then bouncing, going back etc.



    hmm... you know about the Merge/Lock Markers method in Audiosnap, right? That keeps transients in sync with each other across tracks. Doesn't do balls all for pitch though and AS is kind of a pain but works.
     
    And I just opened Melodyne Essentials as a standalone. It only allows for a single clip to be edited at a time as far as I can tell. Not particularly useful.
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