Is it time to give up on the Echo Layla 24/96?

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Beepster
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Re: Is it time to give up on the Echo Layla 24/96? 2015/11/03 10:19:03 (permalink)
Resonant Serpent
Lynx makes PCI cards, and they have excellent sound quality and support. Several motherboard manufacturers still make products with PCI slots. I use the Lynx Two-C in my main computer and L-22 in the other here in the studio. Why PCI? Much lower latency and stability than all the usb interfaces I tried. The PCI bus simply moves more data than the usb, and leads to less problems. I picked both of mine up second-hand on Ebay, and couldn't be happier.




Perhaps but why get an older, slower, less common (these days) legacy PCI card that will likely be "bridged" by a modern MOBO (which can also slow things down/cause disruptions) when you can get a PCIe card that has all the benefits of the old PCI cards without the problems of "bridging"?
 
It would be kind of like buying a USB 1.0 device when USB 2.0 is more common and works better.
 
As I stated near the start of this thread (back in 2013) I went out of my way to make SURE my MOBO had an older PCI slot to accomodate my Layla card thinking it would work as well as it did on my old XP, P4 system. Turned out that slot is "bridged" as opposed to "native" which supposedly means the card is piggy backing on the PCIe chipset instead of having a direct connection to whatever processing gack is happening on the board (that is a totally NON technical, bumblef*ck description of the scenario because I'm not a tech but it is my dum dum understanding of the issue). It creates some kind of bottleneck/disruptions that screw up streaming data like audio. Those slots are totally fine for other stuff and are there so people can use their old PCI stuff but for audio (and likely video) it's just screwy enough to cause problems.
 
However it DOES work (with some fiddling)... but not as good as the proper original PCI slots did nor likely as good as the newer PCIe slots (which of course are even faster than the original PCI slots.
 
Meh. I can still use the Layla box VIA the ADAT connectors through the Scarlett if I want and I can still use it on my old DAW when I want to yank any old files off that machine.
#31
TPayton
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Re: Is it time to give up on the Echo Layla 24/96? 2015/11/03 18:54:02 (permalink)
I used a Layla 24/96 (not to be confused with the Layla 3G) for several years. But the converters were getting rather ancient.   I think converters have come along way since the 24/96, but certainly good work can still be done on them. Toward the end I used it mostly as an ADAT input for a UA 4-710D. 
 
Then due to computer troubles, I got a new machine and needed to go USB. I was concerned about track counts and latency with usb, but was assured by knowledgeable folk that with a modern usb interface, for what I do, performance would be fine.
 
And this turned out to be the case. I picked up a Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 and have been happy with it. Very stable, acceptable latency performance, and I can get higher track counts and use more plug-ins than with my Layla. (which in fairness is probably due to the new computer, not the interface)
 
Anyway, the Focusrite sounds better on the DA than the Layla, and is pretty much superior for my needs in every way, except build quality. The Layla has a great build quality.
 
So, all in all I am happy with the change. I still use the UA pres for almost everything, but the Focusrite pres are certainly acceptable sounding. 

Tom
#32
Sir Les
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Re: Is it time to give up on the Echo Layla 24/96? 2015/11/04 21:13:18 (permalink)
Star tekh...Said something worthy to consider...if firewire is being used, a Thunderbolt adapter and thunderbolt II PCI x card might hold some hope for future usage of those die hard old work horses....
 
Also one might find a PCI case for mac, tied to usb, or thunderbolt output....just in case a card is being used with break out box....They do exist..Probably cross platform also,..so keep the mind open to other means to attach such a external PCI box, to the new systems when sought, and keep the cards/audio working as long as possible..for the least amount of dosh...and save for that something, when time says it is dead!.

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#33
mileskb
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Re: Is it time to give up on the Echo Layla 24/96? 2016/02/10 08:24:59 (permalink)
 
So am I reading that a Layla 24/96 will NOT work under Windows 10?  I'm going to try it in a couple of days, but I have a bad feeling, and I think I know the answer.
 
So the next question...  what's out there today that can record and playback at least 8 channels, and supports MIDI and S/PDIF ?  
#34
Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Is it time to give up on the Echo Layla 24/96? 2016/02/10 09:09:43 (permalink)
Have a look at the Focusrite Scarlett or Saffire range of products

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#35
mileskb
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Re: Is it time to give up on the Echo Layla 24/96? 2016/02/10 13:01:23 (permalink)
My research is leaning toward the Scarlett 6i6.  Firewire seems to be on somewhat shakey ground but pretty much everyone agrees USB2.0 will be around for awhile longer and in shootouts, while technically the Firewire interface should be much faster than the USB2.0....   real-world = negligible. Focusrite makes some nice gear and has been in the came for awhile.  Added bonus, I can use the same interface on my laptop too.
 
Thanks for the suggestion 
#36
drewcake
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Re: Is it time to give up on the Echo Layla 24/96? 2016/03/17 11:38:53 (permalink)
Sir Les
Star tekh...Said something worthy to consider...if firewire is being used, a Thunderbolt adapter and thunderbolt II PCI x card might hold some hope for future usage of those die hard old work horses....
 
Also one might find a PCI case for mac, tied to usb, or thunderbolt output....just in case a card is being used with break out box....They do exist..Probably cross platform also,..so keep the mind open to other means to attach such a external PCI box, to the new systems when sought, and keep the cards/audio working as long as possible..for the least amount of dosh...and save for that something, when time says it is dead!.


 thanks for this thought. I have been following this thread for a while and own the echo layla 24/96 with the PCMCIA card. I'm embarrassed to admit I never got it working since buying it 10 years ago. I'm wondering if there is a cheap solution (converter?) for me to even get 1 input to my computer at 24/96? Just looking to record some quality single track guitar or vocals. I also have a mackie 1402 vlz pro I can use as a pre-amp if needed, but I'm naïve as to whether that would add too much noise/distortion to my signal. I have several computer input options available but no native PCMCIA slot.
 
laptop HP4530s OSX 10.11/ Windows 7  usb 2.0/ usb 3.0/ expresscard 34 / 1/8" aux
GA P55 OSX 10.11 usb 2.0 / FW800 / eSATA / 1/8" aux / coaxial S/PDIF (possible with addt'l cable but 20bit/48 limit)
GA P67 OSX 10.11 usb 2.0 / usb 3.0 / 1/8" aux / coaxial S/PDIF (possible with addt'l cable but 20bit/48 limit)
EVGA P55 Windows 7 usb 2.0 / 1/8"aux
 
what about pairing this with my available expresscard slot on my HP4530s laptop?
Digigear 16bit / 32 bit CardBus PCMCIA PC Card to 34 mm ExpressCard Adapter/Reader/Writer
OR      StarTech.com ExpressCard to CardBus Laptop Adapter CB2EC
 
 thanks in advance!
post edited by drewcake - 2016/03/18 09:40:15
#37
Zargg
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Re: Is it time to give up on the Echo Layla 24/96? 2016/03/17 15:38:33 (permalink)
Hi, and welcome to this forum drewcake. I would probably suggest Focusrite or Presonus. There are cheaper ones, but these are well renowned brands, that will stand the test of time (and are good / stable).
All the best.

Ken Nilsen
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#38
chuckebaby
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Re: Is it time to give up on the Echo Layla 24/96? 2016/03/17 16:34:59 (permalink)
like Zarg I also recommend Focusrite interfaces.
the pres/pre amps are built right in to the unit so you wont need to use the VLZ (Mackie)
you can get a smaller unit (if its just you doing some projects) with one pre amp in it for no more than 100 used at guitar center and those might be limited to only 1 pre amp/2 inputs at a time but the units are good quality.
I don't recommend the presonus units, but that's just my opinion, not a factor. "that's just me".
everyone has their fav's and their poisons.

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#39
drewcake
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Re: Is it time to give up on the Echo Layla 24/96? 2016/03/18 09:24:53 (permalink)
Zargg71
Hi, and welcome to this forum . I would probably suggest Focusrite or Presonus. There are cheaper ones, but these are well renowned brands, that will stand the test of time (and are good / stable).
All the best.


chuckebaby
like Zarg I also recommend Focusrite interfaces.
the pres/pre amps are built right in to the unit so you wont need to use the VLZ (Mackie)
you can get a smaller unit (if its just you doing some projects) with one pre amp in it for no more than 100 used at guitar center and those might be limited to only 1 pre amp/2 inputs at a time but the units are good quality.
I don't recommend the presonus units, but that's just my opinion, not a factor. "that's just me".
everyone has their fav's and their poisons.


 Thanks for the input! Yeah the focusrite products look sweet. I was hoping to avoid buying more gear though. I'm a little lost as to the whole "modern preamp" mentioned earlier in this thread. So layla 24 has no "modern pre" ... is my mackie 1402 vlz preamp considered "modern?" Also, anyone know if the echo layla drivers would work in OSX 10.11? Mac OS driver 1.6.1 listed at echo audio as being for OSX 10.2+
 
I'm going to try out the StarTech.com ExpressCard to CardBus Laptop Adapter CB2EC and see how far I get. Although the lane is PCIe, I'm only recording one channel guitar so maybe I won't have bottleneck issues. PCIe is much faster than usb 2.0 and there are plenty of usb 2.0 audio interface units out there.

post edited by drewcake - 2016/03/18 11:01:04
#40
Zargg
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Re: Is it time to give up on the Echo Layla 24/96? 2016/03/18 11:56:47 (permalink)
You will likely never exceed the USB transfer rate in a normal project, so I would not do this just because of it being Pcie. But hope you figure it out.
All the best.

Ken Nilsen
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#41
drewcake
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Re: Is it time to give up on the Echo Layla 24/96? 2016/03/18 12:13:50 (permalink)
Zargg71
You will likely never exceed the USB transfer rate in a normal project, so I would not do this just because of it being Pcie. But hope you figure it out.
All the best.


Ok thanks for the feedback Zargg... I'm going to tinker a little with the PCIe anyway.... someone mentioned in an amazon review that they successfully paired it with their layla 3G PCMCIA card... dunno if s/he achieved 24/96 or if it is even the same PCMCIA card as the layla 24. Can you point me in the direction of the conversation on this site or elsewhere about PCIe added noise or other issues? 
 
What about a PCMCIA to PCI adapter for the desktop. Then I'm not using a PCIexpress but rather just PCI.
#42
Zargg
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Re: Is it time to give up on the Echo Layla 24/96? 2016/03/19 15:29:54 (permalink)
Good luck, and let us know how it goes.
All the best.

Ken Nilsen
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#43
SuperG
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Re: Is it time to give up on the Echo Layla 24/96? 2016/03/19 16:05:45 (permalink)
If it were me, I'd consider the Echo Layla a lost cause. Take a look at the Echo Audio product page and you'll see that they've discontinued all pro audio products and no longer support them.
 
 

laudem Deo
#44
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Re: Is it time to give up on the Echo Layla 24/96? 2016/03/19 16:36:15 (permalink)
^^ I agree with this. Had an Audiofire 8 (a couple of years, which I bought second hand) which became unstable, and the on / off button worked occasionally. And then I saw that they discontinued their audio division. Great product, but not forward compatible.
All the best.

Ken Nilsen
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#45
papercut
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Re: Is it time to give up on the Echo Layla 24/96? 2016/03/24 22:09:25 (permalink)
I'm still using an M-Audio Delta 44 (plus a Presonus Bluetube, b/c the Delta doesn't have it's own mic pres) that I bought in, like, 2003. It works fine with Windows 7, but is not supported for 10. 
 
I've been hesitant to upgrade b/c it's hard to find affordable PCI or PCIe interfaces these days and USB is significantly slower. I get very little latency with the Delta when recording through amp sims in real time, and that is absolutely crucial to my enjoyment of the whole home DAW experience. Is the consensus these days that USB can, in fact, support low-latency real-time tracking through, say, Amplitube?
#46
SuperG
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Re: Is it time to give up on the Echo Layla 24/96? 2016/03/25 00:43:16 (permalink)
papercut
I'm still using an M-Audio Delta 44 (plus a Presonus Bluetube, b/c the Delta doesn't have it's own mic pres) that I bought in, like, 2003. It works fine with Windows 7, but is not supported for 10. 
 
I've been hesitant to upgrade b/c it's hard to find affordable PCI or PCIe interfaces these days and USB is significantly slower. I get very little latency with the Delta when recording through amp sims in real time, and that is absolutely crucial to my enjoyment of the whole home DAW experience. Is the consensus these days that USB can, in fact, support low-latency real-time tracking through, say, Amplitube?



The best you can expect is around 4ms or so latency on USB with a fast machine - good enough for tracking.
 

laudem Deo
#47
kitekrazy1
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Re: Is it time to give up on the Echo Layla 24/96? 2016/03/25 20:20:42 (permalink)
mileskb
 
So am I reading that a Layla 24/96 will NOT work under Windows 10?  I'm going to try it in a couple of days, but I have a bad feeling, and I think I know the answer.
 
So the next question...  what's out there today that can record and playback at least 8 channels, and supports MIDI and S/PDIF ?  




Windows 7 drivers should work.   My M-Audio FW 410, AP 192 are working on a Windows 10 system (all legacy) by using the W7 drivers. 

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#48
Jeff M.
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Re: Is it time to give up on the Echo Layla 24/96? 2016/03/26 10:56:43 (permalink)
It's unfortunate that Echo went the way of >>All pro audio products have been discontinued. 
I used an Echo Gina 24 for years & years after I upgraded from the Soundblaster era.
 
Recorded, mixed & published two CDs (regional distro) that rock solid bad boy!
The first one was with Sonar 1 - when Sonar was just Sonar.
 
 

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#49
drewcake
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Re: Is it time to give up on the Echo Layla 24/96? 2016/03/29 13:04:42 (permalink)
no love yet on my layla24 / osx 11.1/ CardBus to ExpressCard adapter. I installed layla24 osx 1.6.1 driver just fine and from what I have read it is OSX coreaudio compliant. In system preferences > audio Midi setup , there is no recognition of the input. I believe I would see the input here before any of the software - eg ableton, cubase, audacity...
 
Any ideas? I could try my win7 build. Kinda disappointed I haven't even gotten the input recognized. I think maybe I'll update to OSX 11.1.3 as people reported audio equipment issues before that update.
 
Edit: figured out that layla24 does not support intel processor on os x only power-pc processor.
post edited by drewcake - 2016/04/10 22:32:57
#50
drewcake
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Re: Is it time to give up on the Echo Layla 24/96? 2016/04/06 21:12:08 (permalink)
Ok so I've got my Layla24 running under windows 7 and a cardbus to PCI expresscard adapter and ableton live 9. I'm using my mackie 1402 vlz pro mixer as a pre-amp. Unlike my experience on os x 10.11.1, the layla24 audio drivers (echo layla24 v8.6) that I downloaded and installed were recognized right away as I plugged in and turned on the layla. I went through and setup basic sample rate, buffer settings, etc. I tested a recording with a mic into mackie mixer and then again with a backing CD track played on the RCA input to my mackie mixer- output mackie to layla of course. I listened in real time (or about 14ms after real time I guess) to the monitor through the layla headphone jack. 
 
The specs state both A-D and D-A converters are 128x oversampling designs with 24-bit resolution. Since the headphone jack is the "monitor" for layla output channels 1 + 2, then am I also getting the 24/96 and 128x oversample out of the headphone jack? I think the answer is, maybe. I'm also trying to confirm that I am taking advantage of the the DAC of the layla24 for playback of audio and not just recording. If so, I'm going to route my powered studio monitors directly to the headphone port output OR channel 1+ 2 output of layla24 thus using the DAC of the layla24. Currently, I am using the DAC of my computer via computer headphone jack output to my mackie RCA input and then from mackie to the powered monitors (no Layla). Does anyone know if the computer playback of 24/96 recorded audio track can be routed over PCIe back to the Layla in 24/96 and then through the DAC and to the headphone output? This would be like sending a digital output in the opposite direction from what Layla is used to. I feel like something in here can save me some money from buying a separate DAC for playback if I route the signal correctly.
 
TL;DR: saved my layla24 setup via Cardbus adapter. Can I use layla24 as a DAC for playback?
post edited by drewcake - 2016/04/07 09:58:25
#51
drewcake
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Re: Is it time to give up on the Echo Layla 24/96? 2016/04/08 10:56:59 (permalink)
After playing around some more I can confirm that I can select the layla as an output device for music tracks in VLC, for example, (in addition to ableton) and use my headphones on the layla headphone output. However for recording and playback, I cannot get a good signal on 96kHz... only 48kHz. For channel testing, I use ableton software to simulate the CPU at 80% with a 440 Hz tone. Adjusting the sample rate 128, 256, 512, 1024, etc. only adjusts the cracks and static slightly... nothing even close to that sweet 440 tone I hear over 48kHz/256 sample. I've played with volume and CPU load settings too. I'm only using a single channel with an i3 2350 processor (2.2 GHz). I'm thinking either my 96 channel is blown (not likely because the 32kHz channel has the same crackle static problem) or maybe it has to do with the ASIO? Can someone point me towards a better way to test or figure this out? I'd contact echo but they no longer support.
 
edit: tried JRiver media playback at 24/96kHz and had same issue of static and stutter on playback. No issues at 48kHz. Tried Cubase 5 and same issue of 24/96Khz static on playback. I'm thinking of trying some of the following trouble-shooting... Please comment if you are reading and have tried for yourself. 
-disable onboard audio in bios
-try 32 bit windows (might play nicer with PCI audio)
-uninstall and reinstall audio drivers
-consider a better processor (i have a i3 2350m)
-try new audio cables TRS, etc. 
 
post edited by drewcake - 2016/04/17 22:36:46
#52
Danny Danzi
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Re: Is it time to give up on the Echo Layla 24/96? 2016/06/27 14:42:00 (permalink)
mileskb
 
So am I reading that a Layla 24/96 will NOT work under Windows 10?  I'm going to try it in a couple of days, but I have a bad feeling, and I think I know the answer.
 
So the next question...  what's out there today that can record and playback at least 8 channels, and supports MIDI and S/PDIF ?  




Did you ever try the Layla on Win 10? I still have a 24/96 rack unit that I use from time to time. One of my reasons for not updating to Win 10 is because I really didn't want to get a replacement for it, and my version of Win 7 on all my machines is rock solid. I would *THINK* the win 8.1 drivers would work on Win 10 for this device? I'm dying to try it, but just don't have the guts or the time. If you did try it, please let me know how you made out with it.
 
-Danny

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#53
Jim Roseberry
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Re: Is it time to give up on the Echo Layla 24/96? 2016/06/27 16:37:58 (permalink)
Resonant Serpent
Lynx makes PCI cards, and they have excellent sound quality and support. Several motherboard manufacturers still make products with PCI slots. I use the Lynx Two-C in my main computer and L-22 in the other here in the studio. Why PCI? Much lower latency and stability than all the usb interfaces I tried. The PCI bus simply moves more data than the usb, and leads to less problems. I picked both of mine up second-hand on Ebay, and couldn't be happier.



The only issue with Lynx PCI (vs. PCIe) is that the Lynx PCI cards don't work with bridged PCI slots.
If you've got a current generation motherboard (Z97, Z170, Z170x), if it has PCI slot/s... they're bridged into the PCIe bus via a bridge chip.  If you've got true PCI slot/s, the Lynx PCI units are great performers.

Best Regards,

Jim Roseberry
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#54
drewcake
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Re: Is it time to give up on the Echo Layla 24/96? 2016/06/28 10:37:13 (permalink)
Danny Danzi
mileskb
 
So am I reading that a Layla 24/96 will NOT work under Windows 10?  I'm going to try it in a couple of days, but I have a bad feeling, and I think I know the answer.
 
So the next question...  what's out there today that can record and playback at least 8 channels, and supports MIDI and S/PDIF ?  




Did you ever try the Layla on Win 10? I still have a 24/96 rack unit that I use from time to time. One of my reasons for not updating to Win 10 is because I really didn't want to get a replacement for it, and my version of Win 7 on all my machines is rock solid. I would *THINK* the win 8.1 drivers would work on Win 10 for this device? I'm dying to try it, but just don't have the guts or the time. If you did try it, please let me know how you made out with it.
 
-Danny




Danny,
If it works well on win 7 then don't upgrade. It is more valuable IMHO to keep your tried and true setup. You have not even mentioned a compelling reasoning for wanting to upgrade to win 10. Think about the value of your workflows and know that layla's driver support was discontinued well before win 10 was released.
#55
Danny Danzi
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Re: Is it time to give up on the Echo Layla 24/96? 2016/06/30 18:52:12 (permalink)
drewcake
Danny Danzi
mileskb
 
So am I reading that a Layla 24/96 will NOT work under Windows 10?  I'm going to try it in a couple of days, but I have a bad feeling, and I think I know the answer.
 
So the next question...  what's out there today that can record and playback at least 8 channels, and supports MIDI and S/PDIF ?  




Did you ever try the Layla on Win 10? I still have a 24/96 rack unit that I use from time to time. One of my reasons for not updating to Win 10 is because I really didn't want to get a replacement for it, and my version of Win 7 on all my machines is rock solid. I would *THINK* the win 8.1 drivers would work on Win 10 for this device? I'm dying to try it, but just don't have the guts or the time. If you did try it, please let me know how you made out with it.
 
-Danny




Danny,
If it works well on win 7 then don't upgrade. It is more valuable IMHO to keep your tried and true setup. You have not even mentioned a compelling reasoning for wanting to upgrade to win 10. Think about the value of your workflows and know that layla's driver support was discontinued well before win 10 was released.




Most definitely wise words, Drew. I just have the Win 10 sign popping up here like mad and it makes me think about it from time to time. I saw things about the Layla and have always been curious if anyone actually got them to work. I rarely use the Layla as I have other interfaces. However, it gives me something (probably a degraded signal) that I actually like for guitars and a few other things and I use the SPDIF for DI and re-amping. This works great with my AxeFx as well as for other things.
 
You know how it goes...when something works, you just stick with it. I wasn't really planning to update my main recording rigs because I KNOW there will be issues that slow down or stop my work-flow. I can't afford to be down for an hour let alone a day or longer. When I absolutely have to upgrade my OS due to programs no longer running on 7, I will buy a new pc with whatever new OS is out at the time. Right now, I turn on all my stuff and thank God every day that it all works without a problem.
 
Thanks for grounding me and keeping me from even thinking about going astray. :) I may do it on my internet boxes though as they aren't as important.
 
-Danny

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#56
Hoc
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Re: Is it time to give up on the Echo Layla 24/96? 2018/03/04 20:07:01 (permalink)
Hey guys I have an echo layla
But I don't know how to make the 8 tracks to work, if anybody know please tell how I'm being burning my brain and still don't how to make it work, it only let me use 4 analog tracks and that's it, thanks
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Zargg
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Re: Is it time to give up on the Echo Layla 24/96? 2018/03/04 21:08:39 (permalink)
Hoc
Hey guys I have an echo layla
But I don't know how to make the 8 tracks to work, if anybody know please tell how I'm being burning my brain and still don't how to make it work, it only let me use 4 analog tracks and that's it, thanks

Hi. Which driver mode do you use?
Which version of SONAR?
All the best.

Ken Nilsen
Zargg
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Laptop setup: Win 10 X64, i5 2.4ghz, 8gb RAM, 320gb 7200 RPM HD, Focusrite Solo, + *
 
#58
Hoc
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Re: Is it time to give up on the Echo Layla 24/96? 2018/03/04 22:55:14 (permalink)
The one I have is layla 2000 24/96
Multi track recorder , this one is before the , echo layla 3g is almost the same kind, " as gene 3g" came out in 2004 ,2005 i think not sure
I also use cool edit pro for this thing
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Hoc
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Re: Is it time to give up on the Echo Layla 24/96? 2018/03/04 23:01:53 (permalink)
This how I do my recording , I connect all the mics to the mixer board, since it this has the phantom power, I don't know what I have to do to make work, doesn't know how to convert digital, analog, on the echo layla
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