Is it time to upgrade 8.5.3 to X3?

I didn't upgrade when X1 came out because I didn't like the idea of having to learn a new user interface, 8.5.3 was working pretty well for me and I didn't want to face a flood of new bugs while many old bugs were still flourishing.
 
All of those reasons are still true for me, but I have to admit, some of the new features of X3 look interesting.
 
So, my question for other 8.5.3 users is, what is your opinion on the feasibility of upgrading 8.5.3 to X3?
 
Thanks in advance for your input.

>>I am still on 8.5 and will likely remain there until SONAR un-does some of the changes made at X1 and propagated forward since.
 
Care to elaborate a bit (pun intended)?

I am on 8.3.1.  I haven't even looked at the features for X1, X2, X3... etc.  I am a firm believer in if it ain't broke don't fix it.  8.3 does everything I want it to do.  Am I naive?  (That's not a rhetorical question, btw, please feel free to answer.)
 
I'm also running Windows Vista Business x64 for the same reason.  My current configuration of OS/SONAR almost never crashes (knock on wood)... maybe 3-4 times a year but always due to a 3rd-party plugin.
 
Anyway.... so I download the latest "Morphestra" for Kontakt, it tells me I need to upgrade Kontakt (sigh... seems like this is endless).  So I upgrade from Kontakt 5.1 to 5.2 except... guess what... Kontakt 5.2 all of a sudden REQUIRES at least Windows 7.  So I won't be able to run any new Kontakt samples until I upgrade my OS?!?
 
I'm moving my studio in a month so I'm resigned to upgrading the OS at the same time.  I guess my question is twofold: 1) will the same thing happen to me with SONAR if I don't upgrade, or will I even be able to reinstall 8.3.1 onto Win7 or Win8 and 2) even if not, should I upgrade anyway?  (Brings me back to the original topic.)  If yes, should I upgrade for the features or just for compatibility with a newer operating system?
 
I'm so sad to be giving up my current system which seems flawless to me...

I would jump at the chance although I would suggest waiting for X3D patch (I'm sure others will disagree but I suspect it will be out by the end of the year so there isn't much of a real point here).
 
Having said that I actually upgraded from X2 to X3C today, as I needed to use Melodyne and addictive drums for a track. Was no longer just "nice to have".

Yes I also use Melodyne just fine in 8.3.
 
The reason I still use 8.3 and Vista is just that... no bugs, no crashes, why upgrade?  Buggy for you but not for me.
 
The company that built my computer (visiondaw.com) is recommending I upgrade to Windows 7 they claim it is the most solid option.  Agree?

Matt

bitflipper
I am still on 8.5 and will likely remain there until SONAR un-does some of the changes made at X1 and propagated forward since. I've even considered abandoning Cakewalk for Studio One or Reaper, but decided there was no great benefit in doing so.

Out of curiosity what were the changes they made at X1 that you disagree with?  I'm sure if I search I could find a thread but this seems easier.  (EDIT oops I see I missed someone else asking the same thing.)

I'd posted a thread shortly after the X1 release that went into detail about why I'd concluded it was unusable for me. Wish I could remember the thread title...it had screenshots comparing automation envelopes in 8.5 versus X1, and that's my primary barrier: I hate X1-3 automation.
 
In 8.5, you can show as many automation envelopes as you like. You can simply hover the mouse over any one of them to identify it. You can switch from editing one to another with a single mouse click. And they're all visually overlaid over the audio waveform, which can be very important when the automation is tightly correlated to the audio.
 
In X1-3, you can only edit one envelope at a time. Other envelopes are dimmed to the point of sometimes disappearing into the background color. This makes it very hard to see how the envelopes relate to one another as well as to the audio. Envelopes are visually separated from the waveform. Switching between them involves expanding a dropdown list and making a selection, then re-finding the exact spot you wanted to drop in a node.
 
Having 2, 3, 4 or more hand-drawn envelopes on a track is normal for me, and they are usually correlated. As an example, if I want to increase a reverb send on a vocal to smear the end of a word, I bring the track volume down to mirror the send envelope so that the combined volume remains the same. Easy in 8.5, clumsy in X1-3.
 
While I was evaluating X123, I kept looking for enhancements compelling enough that they'd convince me to change the way I automate. There haven't been any. ProChannel? Don't need it, because I have plenty of third-party processors that are equal to if not superior to PC. Melodyne? I've had it since SONAR 5 days. Nomad plugins? Uh, no thanks. VST3? My compressors all sidechain just fine already. AD is very nice, but not going to replace Superior Drummer. Randomly-reassigned keyboard shortcuts...still trying to figure out how that's an enhancement. Ditto for unnecessarily hiding the polarity and interleave buttons.
 
I do like the overall look of the X series, and especially appreciate them finally putting all configuration options into a single dialog. Why that wasn't in SONAR 1 beats the heck outa me.
 
I used to upgrade every time, because each new version let me do something I either couldn't do before, or couldn't do conveniently. SONAR 6 gave me AudioSnap and ACT. SONAR 7 gave me sidechaining and the step sequencer. SONAR 8 added mono outputs, channel tools and Dim Pro. SONAR 8.5 came with new freeze options, an improved step sequencer and the very handy global effects bypass feature. 
 
None of the X-series versions has offered anything that screams "cool! now, finally, I can _____".

Recently I upgraded from 8.5.3 to X3c, the main reason is VST3 support.
Generally, I'm not into X series' new GUI & shortcuts. For example, for almost 20 years, I really get used to hit F9 to "Select from now", F10 to "Select thru now", F7 to "Go to From", F8 to "Go to Thru"... D for drawing in PRV, E for Erase, S for select, etc etc... Now, they are assigned to something else... I can do key binding, however it takes hours to re assigned the way it worked before. So I just wonder why should Cakey replace them in the first place after 20 years?? There is SO MANY key/button left unused in the keyboard, why bother using the old shortcut to assign something new? It ruins the workflow... I already had that "Doh! Wrong button again... What did I press?" dozen times since I upgrade to X3.

It would be great if Cakey includes preset for the old shortcut to import. We have Cubase, Protools, etc key binding preset included, why not Sonar 8.5 compatible shortcut/keybinding preset to import?

So, one more thing to consider before you upgrade is are you ready for the new workflow / shortcuts? Just a thought.

My experience with the X series generally, and X3c in particular, mirrors musicroom's almost to the letter

> Why should I have to learn a new user interface 
 
75% of all office users felt the same when Windows 95 came out. After a year of using it and then shown a PC with Windows for Workgroups, they couldn't believe how they managed to work on it. The difference was between night and day.
 
As soon as X3 demo comes out install it, set aside two weeks of your life and learn it top to bottom I suggest.

The thinking here for a progressive group such as DAW users is puzzling. The sheer fact that we all record digitally, manipulate our data visually, work at sample levels... would imply we are basically a no fear, go for it smart group who want to enjoy the latest and greatest professional audio/midi tools. The irony here is that no one has to learn a new software. The learning curve is mild at best. Some changes, sure. That should be expected. Technology didn't stop in 2008. I just put a new sound system in the truck. With this type of thinking I'm reading here, I should be really ticked off the radio manufacturer removed the danged pushbuttons to select my AM stations! I'm still struggling to find the 8-track tape slot!! I had to actually read the manual to get the blue tooth and usb audio working (I didn't see any blue teeth anywhere). Why couldn't they just left it alone? Damn them!

I know it personal preference, but after working with X series for a couple of years now, and then loading 8.53. Ouch. Hard to look at and not as user friendly to move about as quickly as I like. Unlike your truck example, from 8.53 to now, I still click on X3, load a project. Arm a track and press record. When I finish, I hit the space bar and edit my track just like before except now... much easier to comp, adjust clip gain automation, edit quickly with integrated melodyne, press "I" and have a channel strip, zoom in/out several new ways, improved audio engine that allows for even core distribution, lower latency and very close to gap-less audio, drag and drop to change out soft synths, efx chains with user defined controls. A "mostly" better version of software. Not a 100% better but they had me at improved audio engine. The very core of the program. Hopefully they'll improve the automation more to your liking. I'm fine with how it is, but I'm not a power automation guy. Just mostly volume/pan.

I think that's a logical approach Matt. Any software that can record and playback a glitch free reasonable amount of tracks is really all we need. I was a very happy camper years ago with a fostex 16 track reel to reel and a jl cooper smpte generator for virtual instruments, I was happy prior to that with a portastudio. :)  All these goodies we have now is really unbelievable icing. And the costs for today's studio equipment including software is also unbelievably cha eap in comparison. I used to spend SO MUCH MONEY! It's all in one's perspective. For me, I sometimes sit back and give thanks/shake my head, etc. for being able to create and produce with software/equipment that is so good it highlights me more than ever as the weakest link in my recording process. From Sonar 3 and up, I've always be able to at least mimic my tape days for pennies on the dollar. So I'm easy to please past that point.

Cactus Music
"I used to spend SO MUCH MONEY!" 
 

That made me laugh! And for me is is actually at the heart of the issue.
The 70 and 80's
 

 
That sounds like a way too familiar story. It did seem like at a time that everything you wanted/needed was $1k and up. My 16track fostex retailed for around $7K. Bought an A&H mixer for about the same dollar amount. Money flowed from my pocket to someone else s all the time. It was a wait, save and purchase process. I remember buying my first digital reverb from yamaha that had a whopping 4 settings. Think I gave about $700 for that one. And that was late 80's early 90's money - oh and the big selling point was 12 bit operation. :) I imagine most of us at one time or another think about our plugs/vsti's in terms of black boxes. I know I do. I would neither have the cash or the space for those plugs if that were the case. It seems incredible at times at what I have access to now.
 
Talking about recording studios. I still have some 2 inch tape the studios charged me for safe keeping floating out there somewhere. :)