Helpful ReplyIs my Setup causing muddy vocals?

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ns0529
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2014/06/26 23:40:12 (permalink)

Is my Setup causing muddy vocals?

So I have a ATR2500 usb mic form sudio technica and I am currently trying my hardest to get clear vocals!! They come out a bit muddy and oomy eve after eq...how I do I fix it? I kow eq will help but I need a pre solution before a major one any help?
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The Band19
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Re: Is my Setup causing muddy vocals? 2014/06/27 00:29:02 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby ns0529 2014/06/27 00:34:51
post a .wav file? Before and after your EQ? and a file w/the vox in the mix? It's impossible to say "here's how you do it" with zero information about what you're working with? There are dozens and dozens of things that could be suggested, but with no information? It's a little difficult... i.e., how are they mixed? How is the song mixed? What plugs are used? Are you doing any M/S processing, and if so where? etc. etc. etc...
 
It's like saying, "How do I get a girlfriend, who's hot?"
 
BTW? How do I do that? (and one that puts out, but is not too clingy, or demanding, or witchy? Who is younger, but not too young? Who is interested in a relationship? But not wanting to pin me down? And doesn't spend too much of my money?"
 
P.S., she must have a job (a good job) and be self supporting, and not depressed, or on any anti-depressants, or any other psychoactive drugs of any kind (stimulants, depressants, anti-anxiety or bi-polar drugs) and NOT going through a crisis "of any kind"... 
 
P.P.S., you tell me how to do this? And I'll fix your vox, "Guaranteed..." And I will pay you to do so. See? It's really not that easy..
post edited by The Band19 - 2014/06/27 00:37:59

Sittin downtown in a railway station one toke over the line.
#2
ns0529
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Re: Is my Setup causing muddy vocals? 2014/06/27 00:40:16 (permalink)
Unfortunately I'm new to this so I don't know how to post a wav file on here!! Asfor all the fancy stuff I'm just using ATR2500 and SONAR X2 to do my covers. I recently decided to start over on my cover because the vocals just were too damn boomy!! I don't need it fixed for me I want to try it on my own I'll never get anywhere if people do it for me ad the girfriend thing...uh...I'm not exactly sure what you mean
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AT
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Re: Is my Setup causing muddy vocals? 2014/06/27 00:45:31 (permalink)
Well, recording vocals is one of the hardest things to get right.  Big studios spend tons of money to get the room right.
 
I would think, however, the room is the lessor of your problems.  They might be out there, but a good USB mic is a rather mythical critter.  I've never heard of one.  They are more designed for pod casting rather than singing.  I'm not familiar w/ the make or model you are using but I would bet that is the biggest problem. 
 
Think about it for a second.  It is not only a mic - and a decent dynamic mic, even one not made for vocals like the Shure 57, costs close to $100.  It is a converter, too, and a decent stereo interface costs $100 or more.  Both those items are bottom of the barrel examples and I bet your usb mic w/ a built-in converter costs considerably less than either item.
 
But if you are stuck w/ the mic in hand, time to try some technique (which is cheap, except in time).  The usb mic is most likely a dynamic mic, but also has a cardioid pattern.  That means heart shaped, which means it has a front and back.  If it has screen only on the top of the mic - that is considered the front.  If it is a side address mic it likely has screening all the way 'round.   Look for the logo or a cardioid sign - heart shape, on one side.  The sign also resembles the head of a penis that all the kids drew in jr. high.  Use the front to sing or speak into.  Also cardioid mics have the proximity effect - the closer you get the more the bass is emphasized.  If you back off you should notice the boominess lessens.  Live, you see singers "eating the mic" which gives them more oomph for live shows and also cuts down on the bleed from the instruments (it will also have the sound man shaking his head and calling the singer a penis head).  Experiment, and hopefully you can find the right distance where the sound is clear and yet still audible.  This is one reason engineers spend money on quality gear - not just mics that are more sensitive but preamps that can deliver more gain.  If you can find a vocal recording session on youtube in a real studio, you often find the singers 18 inches or more from the mic.
 
Play around with distance and performance and you should find something that will work.  Best of luck.
 
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The Band19
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Re: Is my Setup causing muddy vocals? 2014/06/27 00:45:32 (permalink)
Still waiting for my dream girl, I will handle all of your audio needs after that.
 
One is about as easy as the other?

Sittin downtown in a railway station one toke over the line.
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The Band19
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Re: Is my Setup causing muddy vocals? 2014/06/27 00:50:43 (permalink)
"Play around with distance and performance and you should find something that will work.  Best of luck."
 
Or it could be 
 
EQ
Compression
Limiting
Excitation
Stereo Width
Verb
Delay
Saturation
Overlapping frequencies
Etc. Etc. Etc... 
 
"Best of luck?" Without an example, it is quite literally "impossible" to make an honest recommendation. I could make a BS one? But that doesn't get you anywhere...
 

Sittin downtown in a railway station one toke over the line.
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The Band19
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Re: Is my Setup causing muddy vocals? 2014/06/27 00:51:00 (permalink)
"Play around with distance and performance and you should find something that will work.  Best of luck."
 
Or it could be 
 
EQ
Compression
Limiting
Excitation
Stereo Width
Verb
Delay
Saturation
Overlapping frequencies
Etc. Etc. Etc... 
 
"Best of luck?" Without an example, it is quite literally "impossible" to make an honest recommendation. I could make a BS one? But that doesn't get you anywhere...
 

Sittin downtown in a railway station one toke over the line.
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The Band19
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Re: Is my Setup causing muddy vocals? 2014/06/27 00:51:00 (permalink)
dbl post

Sittin downtown in a railway station one toke over the line.
#8
ns0529
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Re: Is my Setup causing muddy vocals? 2014/06/27 00:53:35 (permalink)
@The Band19 Ok look your dream girl is not inside of my post if you cannot answer my question then please don't respond!! I hate when people always want to trade something just for HELP especially when it has nothing ot do with my problems. I want to handle my own audio needs 
 
@AT look hun here is a link to the mic I am
using 
I am using SONAR X2 and am far enough from my mic as is!! It could be I'm ot eq'ing properly because earlier most of vocals sounded a little more better...but my chorus sounded way to boomy and muddy and I hated it...I'm just looking for a better answer. I can only work with what I have
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The Band19
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Re: Is my Setup causing muddy vocals? 2014/06/27 01:01:16 (permalink)
I'm sorry, here is your best answer for sure, 
 
"Play around with distance and performance and you should find something that will work.  Best of luck."
 
Good luck sir or madam. (Don't worry about all that other technical stuff) And by all means! Don't go so far as learning how to record something and then mix it down and post it for people to listen to and comment on? That is WAY too much work... It is better to stay on the path you have chosen, and much easier. Stick with it and you'll get there.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nbEeU2dRBg
post edited by The Band19 - 2014/06/27 01:05:04

Sittin downtown in a railway station one toke over the line.
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ns0529
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Re: Is my Setup causing muddy vocals? 2014/06/27 01:46:59 (permalink)
i am a girl and thank you but I haven't mixed it completely I mean I am all about working to get something to sound beautiful or at least decent !! I mean you can't just expect to sound good on it's own you have to try!!
But here is some samples of it one with EQ and one without
 
The first one has we...nothing on it...just recorded vocals with sonitus noise gate

 
The second one have been eq'd qith fabfilter pro-q, compressed with sonar x2 track compressor, and breverb 2 cakewalk 64, but the speaking part has a classic chorus and the melody with it has a classic flanger you know to make it swirl 

 
I just don't want my vocals to be muddy and boomy, I don't know maybe my hearing is just dumb
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spacealf
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Re: Is my Setup causing muddy vocals? 2014/06/27 02:36:49 (permalink)
A person can not post a link until they have 25 posts here on this forum. Perhaps you can type out the link and perhaps we can try and see if that will work. (forum is not working correctly nowadays either lately).
Perhaps you can load it up here, can sign up for free or just upload a file, but if you sign up, then you can take the file down also. I have used it several times in the Past.
http://www.fileswap.com/
 
(and I am not sure what KPOP means exactly either). ??
I think I may guess correctly though.
 
I see you have started other threads also in the recent past, seemingly all about the same thing just glancing at them. (??)
http://www.audio-issues.com/music-mixing/all-the-eq-information-youll-ever-need/
 
Muddyness is usually around 300-450 Hz in EQ. Look the charts over, it should be a guide on what frequencies you want.
 
 
 
post edited by spacealf - 2014/06/27 15:25:41

 
 
#12
spacealf
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Re: Is my Setup causing muddy vocals? 2014/06/27 02:54:41 (permalink)
There are more expensive microphones also, that cost a lot more. Those mics are not going to be duplicated by a cheaper microphone either. Only somewhat. Although there may be cheaper mics that sound pretty good, there is a reason recording studios use better mics - they can probably afford it.
 

 
 
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spacealf
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Re: Is my Setup causing muddy vocals? 2014/06/27 03:20:15 (permalink)
Is this the mic you have?
http://recordinghacks.com/microphones/Audio-Technica/ATR2500-USB
 
Well, look at the charts on the link in the previous post and work with the mic and EQ. The charts should help on any music.
 

 
 
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spacealf
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Re: Is my Setup causing muddy vocals? 2014/06/27 03:35:56 (permalink)
And you can save the images on that link by right clicking and "copy image" or something like that. Then since it is on the clipboard, open up Paint program - Paste the image (that is still on the clipboard in Windows) and then save it in the Paint program with a name you want to use for the image.
 
That way you do not always have to go to that website to see the charts.
 

 
 
#15
Karyn
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Re: Is my Setup causing muddy vocals? 2014/06/27 04:17:49 (permalink)
Hi ns0529
 
If your vocals seem boomy and muddy...
 
Using Pro-q..
Start with a high pass filter around 150Hz,  leave the rest of the bass alone.
Turn the mids down a little.
Boost the hi a touch...
 
 
To find the best mid frequency band to cut.. start by boosting them and slowly sweep the boost frequency through the mids until you find the area that makes it much worse..  Now cut that frequency...

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AT
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Re: Is my Setup causing muddy vocals? 2014/06/27 11:55:13 (permalink)
How many times have I heard "fix it in the mix?" No amount of mixing skill will turn a sow's ear into a silk purse, despite what you read.  Fixing it in the mix or in post is the most time consuming and least successful way of producing a good product.  Getting it right during recording (or as right as possible) is the first step to good sound.  If you learned in the old studio system the first real experience you got w/ recording was setting up mics, not mixing a paying client's masterpiece on a ssl board that you didn't know which button to push.  Which is why I suggested learning the basics of recording a  sound before learning how to fix a badly recording sound. 
 
If the sound is booming, judicious use of EQ can help, but not cure, the boom.  And since the OP has another open thread about "too much air" in the vocal, I suppose the fault lies within the recording technique themselves, not the stars, dear Brutus. If the same artist, same room and same mic produce such varying results, I'd start w/ the actual recording process. It is a learning process, so start at the source.  Get that decent, and it is soooo much easier to get a decent mix.  Get great sound, and the song mixes itself.  If you can't change the artist, or room or mic, find the technique that produces consistent results.  Then you can apply the same techniques to make the mix better.  Otherwise, you are just spitting into the wind and hoping something sticks.  Again and again.
 
Some practical mix suggestions for vocals in general, and your specific problem are:
 
Start w/ a high pass filter (which, as the name implies, passes the higher frequencies while cutting the lower ones).  For female vocals, you might go up to 200 Hz and higher without damaging the meat of the sound.  Play w/ the slope, if available, which is the curve of the filter. 
 
Muddy or booming usually apply to frequencies a bit higher, up to 400 Hz.  A separate notch filter, or for wide mud, a gentler dip, might help.  Reverb and other time-based effects will muck things up, so add those only after the track sound is good or you'll be fighting the vocals on two fronts.   For subtractive EQ like this, even the most basic EQ should work.  You ain't trying to add anything special, just take away.

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there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
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SvenArne
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Re: Is my Setup causing muddy vocals? 2014/06/27 19:23:46 (permalink)
Some long replies here...
 
Your mic shouldn't cause mud. Poor quality mics can cause several issues, but muddy sound isn't something I would ascribe to a typical USB condenser, and Audio Technica makes good gear. 
 
Distance! Sure you're not singing too close to the mic? Start at 1 foot (~30 cm) and take it from there!
 
Sven





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Guitarhacker
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Re: Is my Setup causing muddy vocals? 2014/06/28 11:06:46 (permalink)
hearing the example would certainly give us a starting point....
 
until you get 25 posts, you can't include active links. it's an anti-spammer thing.....
 
However,,, you can always type it out:  www dot yourwebsitelink dot com...and we can easily get there, then someone else can post the active link for you and for the rest of us to click on it.
 
 

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#19
spacealf
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Re: Is my Setup causing muddy vocals? 2014/06/30 14:08:07 (permalink)
I guess we will never know.
 

 
 
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