VinylJunkie
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Is the DAW market too crowded?
With the loss of Sonar and many people looking for alternatives, it strikes me that the market is very overcrowded for what is essentially a niche product. We have the established big hitters and seemingly a wealth of smaller players all vying for market share. Now of course they all offer something different and all have their fans but then again so did Sonar.
So could Sonar be the first of many to bite the dust?
Discuss.
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batsbrew
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Re: Is the DAW market too crowded?
2017/12/05 20:17:14
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JUST LIKE THE FAST FOOD HAMBURGER MARKET.....
all depends on how fine your ingredients are.
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TheSteven
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Re: Is the DAW market too crowded?
2017/12/05 20:43:34
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Or like MDs how good your marketing is...
"Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its pupils" Loius-Hector Berlioz  www.AgitatedState.com MenuMagic - plug-in management powertools! My Tunes
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pfossi
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Re: Is the DAW market too crowded?
2017/12/05 22:37:40
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Bite your tongues! Don’t want this to happen again. Maybe I should drag out the old Fostex 8 track!
Intel I-7 4790 3.6GHz, NVIDIA GeForce 240, Windows 10 home 64, 8 Gig Ram, C:/ 2 T HD, Music Storage 1 T HD, Sonar Platinum lifetime, Behringer Xenyx 1204 UFX Mixer interface
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abacab
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Re: Is the DAW market too crowded?
2017/12/05 23:19:11
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VinylJunkie
With the loss of Sonar and many people looking for alternatives, it strikes me that the market is very overcrowded for what is essentially a niche product. We have the established big hitters and seemingly a wealth of smaller players all vying for market share. Now of course they all offer something different and all have their fans but then again so did Sonar.
So could Sonar be the first of many to bite the dust?
Discuss.
My thoughts are basically to hitch your wagon to a horse that has the strength pull you through the next 10 years, at least. That would mean choose a primary DAW with a strong company that has a leading market share and a respectable balance sheet, and a workflow that fits with your needs.  Save the niche players for use as secondary DAWs, as there are certainly a lot of interesting ones out there! But I agree, there is no telling how long the smaller players will stand long term...
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june61944
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Re: Is the DAW market too crowded?
2017/12/06 00:50:50
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We've talked about features and functionality in the sprint to plan B, but is there a general consensus about those outfits that potentially have the legs (and a diversified enough portfolio) to ensure some stability into the future? I'm really tempted by the Samplitude Pro X3 offer right now but not sure how Magix stacks up against Presonus/Studio One Pro in the longevity area.
I'm a little concerned about the learning curve in Samp, too...
Studio One 3.5. SPLAT 64. Win 7 Pro. Dell 7010, i7 3770, 3.4 GHz, 16Gb RAM. Tascam US-122 Mk II. Lotsa other gadgets.
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cparmerlee
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Re: Is the DAW market too crowded?
2017/12/06 03:41:01
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VinylJunkie
So could Sonar be the first of many to bite the dust?
I'd say the parallel is web browsers. Originally there was Mosaic->Netscape. It eventually gave way to Firefox, IE, Opera, Safari and a few others. As big pieces of the browsers became public domain or GNU, we saw an explosion of browsers -- dozens, if not hundreds of them. Anybody with a compiler could create their own browser in a matter of hours. Because this could be done on the cheap, these browsers didn't necessarily "go out of business." They simply had little to zero following. The world decided these numerous products added nothing. And that's basically where we are with DAWs IMHO. Clearly there are some segments that have different priorities and requirements. There is a professional studio or commercial producers segment. They are willing to pay for a full function, reliable, robust product. This seems to be Protools in the past and Cubase today. StudioOne would like to be there, but will need a few more years of big investments to get there. There is a hobbyist's segment. Reaper is well positioned here. And there is a live performer's segment. Ableton is the big gorilla for this segment. The rest of the DAWs will be searching for a reason to exist, IMHO. Some of them have a good following (Logic, DP e.g.) The others might was well disappear.
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cparmerlee
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Re: Is the DAW market too crowded?
2017/12/06 03:44:52
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abacab
But I agree, there is no telling how long the smaller players will stand long term...
I agree. Moreover, a company can practically go out of business simply by reducing or stopping their development. The users may not see that for years. Personally I have no interest in wasting my time with fringe players. I use the DAW as a tool. It isn't a religion. I need the tools to work, today and tomorrow. I invested a lot of effort in learning SONAR. I have to do that again now. I want this to the be the last time for me.
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denverdrummer
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Re: Is the DAW market too crowded?
2017/12/06 05:08:12
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Yes, I've been saying this for some time. What's even more amazing is that relatively new disruptors like Studio One and even more recent Bitwig have really found footing in this crowded market, but I think that's primarily because a lot of the standard DAW's were resting on their laurels and not innovating.
Pro Tools, Logic and Cubase aren't going anywhere. They are too entrenched, and too many people are reliant on them. So that leaves the table scraps for everyone else.
The only thing that will keep the others going is trying to appeal to a broader audience and ensuring a healthy economic environment to produce future editions.
I do think Studio One has kind of gained ground as the home musicians recording app. It's relative ease of use and drag and drop features are very appealing, and the fact that it can rely on Pre Sonus hardware to offset it from having to be profitable by itself. It does severely lag behind competitors in certain areas, but their development cycles have been able to provide just enough to keep users engaged, and at the same time provided for a maintainable ecosystem and kept development costs in check.
Bitwig is a very interesting one. I think they will mainly be a pain in Ableton's side for years to come, but they have thought outside the box a bit, and if they can continue to keep development costs low, and engage their already loyal fanbase, they should be able to keep going.
But the reality is, that anyone not named Pro Tools, Cubase or Logic, is potentially vulnerable. Doesn't mean they are doomed, because nobody right now is going to unseat those three. But it does mean staying profitable and staying competitive is a must.
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WallyG
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Re: Is the DAW market too crowded?
2017/12/06 16:55:04
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pfossi
.....Maybe I should drag out the old Fostex 8 track!
Still have mine. Now where did I put that Amiga computer.... Walt
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iRelevant
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Re: Is the DAW market too crowded?
2017/12/06 17:35:20
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I don't see anyone mentioning IL's FL Studio here, why is that ? They are currently working on a big 20 year anniversary edition which will be released sometime next year. Hopefully with some radical improvements.
Just to mention, their life time free update policy have been good for 20 years.
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abacab
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Re: Is the DAW market too crowded?
2017/12/06 17:54:04
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denverdrummer
But the reality is, that anyone not named Pro Tools, Cubase or Logic, is potentially vulnerable. Doesn't mean they are doomed, because nobody right now is going to unseat those three. But it does mean staying profitable and staying competitive is a must.
That sounds about right! Steinberg Cubase is owned by Yamaha. Logic is owned by Apple. And well, Avid Pro Tools is the industry standard, love it or hate it. 
DAW: CbB; Sonar Platinum, and others ...
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Starise
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Re: Is the DAW market too crowded?
2017/12/06 18:15:54
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I don't believe the daw market is too crowded.
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Sycraft
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Re: Is the DAW market too crowded?
2017/12/06 19:24:18
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I think Sonar's decline shows it is sadly :(. I had wondered this myself given that you compare it to other creative type tools like video editors or the like and you find that there are WAAAAY more DAWs out there. This would either imply that creating and mixing audio is just far more popular than video, which Youtube would seem to be a counter indication of, or that there are just more than is demand.
Sadly, it looks like it is the second one since Sonar was not profitable. We may see more of them dwindle, in time.
That is why Studio One and Cubase are both good ones to look at, I think, because they exist not just as a product on their own, but a product to sell other products as well. Both are owned by hardware companies (Yamaha owns Steinberg for those that didn't know) and are tightly integrated with products those companies sell, making them a valuable product even if it isn't profitable in and of itself.
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cparmerlee
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Re: Is the DAW market too crowded?
2017/12/06 19:54:59
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Sycraft
That is why Studio One and Cubase are both good ones to look at, I think, because they exist not just as a product on their own, but a product to sell other products as well. Both are owned by hardware companies (Yamaha owns Steinberg for those that didn't know) and are tightly integrated with products those companies sell, making them a valuable product even if it isn't profitable in and of itself.
It becomes a question of innovation versus stability. There are hobbyists who really enjoy an experimental environment. There is nothing wrong with that, and a few of these marginal DAWs will continue to exist to serve that segment. But they will come and go because they will be thinly capitalized. People who depend on a DAW for a living, or at least as a tool to support serious music production (as opposed to hobby experimentation) will be best served by the products with more capital and market share behind them. I wonder about StudioOne. Presonus is a good company, but I don't know that their business is strong and diverse enough to support StudioOne and Notion. I wouldn't be surprised to see StudioOne continue to be a level below Cubase functionally even 5 years from now. Both Presonus and Yamaha/Steinberg are investing in the convergence of various musical cultures. This is something I long advocated for SONAR, but this did not resonate much with the SONAR user base. That is ironic because the DAW itself is the product of convergence between sequencing and recording. I believe the next convergence is the confluence of DAW and classical notation, which will draw in a potential market of missions of classically trained musicians. (Please understand I am not saying it will draw in millions of customers. But it will open the door to a segment that includes millions of people today.) StudioOne / Notion has some rudimentary convergence today, which is a good first step. Cubase / Dorico has no convergence today, other than the fact that significant parts of Cubase are embedded in Dorico's playback engine. AFAIK, there is zero convergence today between Protools and Sibelius, and I doubt they will organize for that. Ableton is built on a difference convergence, which is the DAW and live performance. Most DAWs have some of the elements that can be useful in love performance, but Ableton is the leader here. So if we want to look 5-10 years down the road, I expect the top tier products to support a 4-way convergence: sequencing, recording, classical notation and live performance. That is a lot, and may be more than some musicians want to dig into. But it makes the largest addressable market. Anything short of this will be a niche player, which is OK. I expect Reaper (and some others) can do well in their niches.
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azslow3
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Re: Is the DAW market too crowded?
2017/12/06 21:01:27
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I am hobbyist and noob... in music production.
But for me, as programmer, it is almost irrelevant in which system and in which language to write programs. Sure, there is some learning curve on any switch. The first one, from Borland eco-system, was real pain. All that key combinations which no longer do what the should... almost automatic mouse clicks which hit not what I want... But I was quickly over that. I mean if someone can not write a program in text mode using vi or when asked "please write that in assembly for processor X" reply with "oh no... can I do this in Python?", sorry to say, such person is not a PROgrammer.
So I see an irony in all that discussions. On one side people write "that tiny DAW is just for kids" and then continue with "I have to carefully think what I am going to select for next 10 years...". If that is a music instrument for $10-20k, I agree such position make sense. But here discussion is about a PROGRAM, for under $1k (all together, less then the computer on which they can run, nothing compare to any serious music instrument)... For "pro" use cases...
Why not take the first one you see and just use it? If at some point you start to hate it, take the next one. You don't have to leave your chair to do that. Or you want repeat Sonar story, which "innovations" are more then 10 years old, half of the core features are obsolete/not supported and the rest is still good just because that was made good... long time ago.
For "converge". Do you remember "Audio Interface + Mixer + Control Surface (+ recorder)" in one box? How many have survived on the market?
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Sycraft
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Re: Is the DAW market too crowded?
2017/12/06 22:54:13
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azslow3For "converge". Do you remember "Audio Interface + Mixer + Control Surface (+ recorder)" in one box? How many have survived on the market? Well by convergence what people mean isn't necessarily one device that is everything, but rather devices integrating in to a single, "converged" workflow. On the consumer side, this makes doing things easier and on the company side, it makes one product help drive the sales of other products.
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cparmerlee
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Re: Is the DAW market too crowded?
2017/12/07 00:21:07
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azslow3
But here discussion is about a PROGRAM, for under $1k (all together, less then the computer on which they can run, nothing compare to any serious music instrument)
azslow3
... For "pro" use cases...
Why not take the first one you see and just use it? If at some point you start to hate it, take the next one.
I believe you are speaking as a hobbyist who derives pleasure from the exploration of new technology. There's nothing wrong with that. While I also appreciate the advanced technology, most of the time, the DAW and its plug-ins are a MEANS to the end, not the end in themselves. I want to get to the best result with the minimum effort and hassle. I have MUCH more than $1000 invested when you tally the hardware (computer, interface, headphones, microphones, monitors, etc), the software (SONAR, the plug-ins, and other tools like RX4 and MP3 converter), and my learning curve time. I would value all of that at about $10,000, and I am sure others have a much bigger investment. The question is how much of this is easily transported to another DAW platform. Fortunately, most of it transfers, but I still expect this is a $2500 migration for me when I value my new learning curve time.I cannot look at the DAW as a disposable item. I need one that will give me good service 10 years. Beyond that I may not care much, or I may be long dead. azslow3
For "converge". Do you remember "Audio Interface + Mixer + Control Surface (+ recorder)" in one box? How many have survived on the market?
The converged product doesn't have to come in one box. StudioOne is purchased separately from Notion. Not everybody needs both. But a converged solution reaches the largest market.
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cparmerlee
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Re: Is the DAW market too crowded?
2017/12/07 00:28:30
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Sycraft
by convergence what people mean isn't necessarily one device that is everything, but rather devices integrating in to a single, "converged" workflow. On the consumer side, this makes doing things easier and on the company side, it makes one product help drive the sales of other products.
Exactly. For me, utopia would be a strong notation product that is seamless with the DAW, meaning that any MIDI changes I enter in the DAW automatically appear in the notation and vice versa. And any additional tracks I have in the DAW that aren't linked with the score can still be heard (optionally) when working within the score. Notion has the first little bit of this, but it isn't really useful yet. And regarding the convergence with live performance, this gets into the area that was to be addressed by Momentum. Capture ideas in the live world, and have them automatically make their way into the DAW. Then the DAW can turn that into MIDI which is automatically seen in the score. It is easy to describe and a huge undertaking to implement in software. But I expect this is a big part of the future. And I also believe the resistance to this from within Cakewalk and the long-term user community was a significant factor in the company's demise.
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Starise
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Re: Is the DAW market too crowded?
2017/12/07 15:40:42
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Fact- Other daw makers are still in business and if they weren't making money they wouldn't be in business.
Fact- As a percentage, the daws that went under in the last 10 are small compared to the total number.
Fact- There have been recent daw startups that are presently profitable.
Question- Given these facts, why do you think the daw market is over crowded?
I'm fairly certain that if you were a daw maker you probably wish there were less to choose from giving you more of the market. There is competition in all markets. If you have a good product at a good price point it will sell. The demise of Cakewalk is likely a relief to some, although I wouldn't stake my life on thinking it won't be repurposed.
Fact- Good products with bad marketing still don't sell well.
Fact- Bad product decisions turn off buyers.
Fact- Pricing a product above the competition is usually a very bad idea, unless an extra value can be proven to the customer.
Fact-If you spend more than you make you can't continue.
If you're going under you do whatever it takes, discontinue the lifetime updates, stop production. Call a huddle. Regroup. Restructure.
Just food for thought- Move out of Boston to some place you can afford the rent. Hire Indian programmers. Lay off the dead weight. Streamline yourself. Look at your options. Make good decisions from now on.
Might be way too late. Probably is.
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abacab
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Re: Is the DAW market too crowded?
2017/12/07 16:41:57
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Starise
Fact- Good products with bad marketing still don't sell well.
This what happens with premium priced products that are perceived by the market as "other". Starise
Might be way too late. Probably is.
Yup!!!
DAW: CbB; Sonar Platinum, and others ...
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azslow3
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Re: Is the DAW market too crowded?
2017/12/07 17:32:59
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cparmerlee
I believe you are speaking as a hobbyist who derives pleasure from the exploration of new technology. There's nothing wrong with that. While I also appreciate the advanced technology, most of the time, the DAW and its plug-ins are a MEANS to the end, not the end in themselves.
DAW, plug-ins and other programs/hardware/instruments are just TOOLS. In any activity, at work as a professional and at home as a hobbyist, I prefer to use whatever tool is better for the job. If there is a new accu. screwdriver, I do not think "I continue to use my old lovely screwdriver, it is old and has no motor, but I know how to use it...". As Craig (and other) has mentioned many times, normally if you are a "pro" you all the time have more then one DAW. Just because no single DAW (tool) does everything good (fast), and the time and quality (for a "pro") are the only important aspects. PS. I have approximately calculated how much I have payed for music (lessons for children, instruments, equipment, software, etc.) during the last 10 years. At least $15000 (around $9000 from that for lessons). I mean that is hobby level, at least where I live now...
Sonar 8LE -> Platinum infinity, REAPER, Windows 10 pro GA-EP35-DS3L, E7500, 4GB, GTX 1050 Ti, 2x500GB RME Babyface Pro (M-Audio Audiophile Firewire/410, VS-20), Kawai CN43, TD-11, Roland A500S, Akai MPK Mini, Keystation Pro, etc. www.azslow.com - Control Surface Integration Platform for SONAR, ReaCWP, AOSC and other accessibility tools
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cparmerlee
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Re: Is the DAW market too crowded?
2017/12/07 20:09:23
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Starise
Fact- Other daw makers are still in business and if they weren't making money they wouldn't be in business.
I don't think you can generalize that into a "fact." After all, look how long SONAR was apparently unprofitable. Take a look at PG Music Power Tracks. I doubt that is "profitable" as a stand-alone product, and would drive minimal sales on its own. But PC Music is able to throw it into BIAB bundles, and thereby get a little more money from the bundle. And they probably spend next to nothing for ongoing development. So what does "profitable" really mean? If we are talking about DAWs that are actively developed and have more-or-less a full set of modern features, I'm not so sure it is easy to be profitable with this many product in the marketplace.
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denverdrummer
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Re: Is the DAW market too crowded?
2017/12/08 02:13:40
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Starise
Fact- Other daw makers are still in business and if they weren't making money they wouldn't be in business.
Fact- As a percentage, the daws that went under in the last 10 are small compared to the total number.
Fact- There have been recent daw startups that are presently profitable.
Question- Given these facts, why do you think the daw market is over crowded?
I'm fairly certain that if you were a daw maker you probably wish there were less to choose from giving you more of the market. There is competition in all markets. If you have a good product at a good price point it will sell. The demise of Cakewalk is likely a relief to some, although I wouldn't stake my life on thinking it won't be repurposed.
Fact- Good products with bad marketing still don't sell well.
Fact- Bad product decisions turn off buyers.
Fact- Pricing a product above the competition is usually a very bad idea, unless an extra value can be proven to the customer.
Fact-If you spend more than you make you can't continue.
If you're going under you do whatever it takes, discontinue the lifetime updates, stop production. Call a huddle. Regroup. Restructure.
Just food for thought- Move out of Boston to some place you can afford the rent. Hire Indian programmers. Lay off the dead weight. Streamline yourself. Look at your options. Make good decisions from now on.
Might be way too late. Probably is.
And you just hit the nail on the head right here. Cakewalk' s business model was unsustainable, and Gibson having zero experience in that market bought a company with a red ledger and then sat back while they continued to lose money. For the things you propose to have happened would require someone buying cakewalk who is intimately familiar with the market to buy them and actively force change to happen. I'm sure the bakers wouldn't have been pleased to have someone come in and tell them how to run their business, but if they had Cakewalk might still be around.
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Starise
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Re: Is the DAW market too crowded?
2017/12/08 15:32:32
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We might see a few more drop away in the future. I hope not.
I had similar thoughts that profitability isn't easy. Being unprofitable for a short time isn't a death sentence.I'm sure many daw makers have bad quarters. The ups outweigh the downs or the company goes under. Some companies can wait longer to see a good quarter. Other companies like Gibson who was already in trouble didn't have that luxury.Counting a loss can get a business a tax break. There is a tipping point though.
Being unprofitable for a long time has predictable results. If the company has a hardware interest, they can weather the storm better and justify some of the loss by allowing that the software is indirectly aiding the sale of hardware.They offer starter versions of their software with hardware further driving sales of software. What Roland started with hardware integration was a good thing, but they didn't follow through with it or continue support for the products. They must have eventually seen Cakewalk as a loosing venture.IMO IF Roland would have stayed the course they would have lost money in the short term but gained money in the long term. As the hardware became more visible it could have been a win/win situation but Roland must have only been concerned with profits in the short term. They weren't willing to ride it out until profits started to show up.
Gibson would have been in a good position to integrate Cakewalk well with Tascam, but I don't think they were financially solvent enough to see it through. Really a bunch of bad moves and turns for Cakewalk.
IF a hardware vendor picked up Sonar and stayed with it over the time it takes for products to catch hold it would be an eventual success. That means money though and no one wanted to be the company to venture that investment.
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cparmerlee
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Re: Is the DAW market too crowded?
2017/12/08 16:16:15
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Starise
Gibson would have been in a good position to integrate Cakewalk well with Tascam, but I don't think they were financially solvent enough to see it through.
I don't think SONAR, per se, is a very good platform for bundling. At a time when other products are opening to Android and Linux -- and of course IOS, SONAR's Windows-only situation made it impossible as a bundle. In addition, there is such as thing as being TOO function-rich. SONAR had accumulated decades of features, many of which were not really needed in light of newer features. But the user base would not let them go. This makes the product overly challenging for a new user, especially a new user who was mostly interested in the hardware in the first place. What we have is a whole collection of problems that combined to be fatal: - The X1 quality problems that drove users away and never brought them back as quality improved
- The failure of the IOS port
- Decades of legacy functions that added to clutter
- Significant product weaknesses in key areas like notation
- No real hardware tie-ins. That would not be fatal on its own, but the rationale for both the Roland and Gibson acquisitions was hardware synergy, and that never happened
- The subscription thing. Again, might not have been fatal by itself, but why do it? It just scares customers away.
- Momentum; could have been a good thing, but didn't make very good marketing sense after abandoning the IOS port. I do believe Momentum-style products will succeed in the marketplace. Songwriters are always looking for help.
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denverdrummer
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Re: Is the DAW market too crowded?
2017/12/08 16:33:25
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I don't agree that the mac port was an issue. If anything the mac port is a red herring. It may have not cost much to produce, but it was a rabbit trail that led to nothing. FL Studio has been very successful being PC only. The fact is that most people have Windows not a Mac, they had plenty of potential market. The problem is they weren't even in 3rd place among PC users. Cakewalk should have focused on it's core competencies instead of getting into a market where they had no shot of competing against $200 Logic.
The stability issues drove away some people but not as much as the change in pricing structure. $250 for annual updates without people really knowing what they were going to get, or if they were going to get it. That was never going to fly. Again think about it, $250 for annual updates vs, $200 Logic.
Starise hit the nail on the head, but in order to implement those kinds of changes meant Cakewalk needed to be owned by someone who would force those changes. Gibson bought a company that was bleeding red ink and they were "hands off" in their approach which was a bad move because if anyone needed change forced upon them it was Cakewalk.
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Starise
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Re: Is the DAW market too crowded?
2017/12/08 17:00:22
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I don't know, lots of people bought the Roland V studio . Also Roland recording interfaces and keyboard controllers. I think much of that was A.Because they were already Cakewalk users and B. The V Studio was a nice piece of hardware. See the splash article in SOS 2008. HERE Unfortunately Roland sold Cake and left v700 development. To this day the V Studio can be made to work albeit not without some work in newer setups.Lots of people still using this hardware. Once again, I don't believe Roland gave the profit cycle enough time to develop. If they had rode through the storm they might very well be sitting in a similar place to Yamaha. JMHO The quad capture probably sold better because it was aimed at the bedroom musician and sold for less. And I agree, they just made a bunch of bad moves. Most you already mentioned. I personally liked the skylight interface and I think that idea would have flown much better if they would have bug proofed it better before they launched it. The combination of bugs and a new GUI killed away those who loved 8.5. By the time X3 came around it was too late. Many had already decided they didn't like it which is sad because X3 was a stable program for the most part. the iOS port is likely what happens to an idea after it goes through upper management. It probably had good beginnings and declined from there. I'm guessing management wasn't really listening to what they worker ants were trying to say ...or didn't care. The idea that legacy functions somehow choke a program is not a totally proven concept. Coders work around issues all the time and the software works just fine. Much current software runs on older code. I do agree that the code kept them from a good iOS port. The last example of Sonar is still on my computer humming along nicely. In one sense you're subscribing to any software that has a yearly release. It just isn't called that. You still pay to upgrade or continue development. At least this is how I see it. I think the word "subscription" scares people away. Even though Cake was careful not to call it a subscription.
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TheWholeDamnZoo
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Re: Is the DAW market too crowded?
2017/12/09 05:39:09
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denverdrummer
Bitwig is a very interesting one. I think they will mainly be a pain in Ableton's side for years to come, but they have thought outside the box a bit, and if they can continue to keep development costs low, and engage their already loyal fanbase, they should be able to keep going.
But the reality is, that anyone not named Pro Tools, Cubase or Logic, is potentially vulnerable. Doesn't mean they are doomed, because nobody right now is going to unseat those three. But it does mean staying profitable and staying competitive is a must.
Agree about Bitwig. I don't see either Ableton or FL Studio as being vulnerable. Those two are here to stay (at least for the foreseeable future).
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kitekrazy1
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Re: Is the DAW market too crowded?
2017/12/09 07:41:53
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Bitiwg is like an annual update like Finale and older versions of Sonar. Bitwig is $299 right now. Interesting that Sonar is still sold in Guitar Center stores.
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