Is there a "Goodbye, Sonar" thread?

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rstollen
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RE: Is there a "Goodbye, Sonar" thread? 2009/03/11 00:33:08 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: Zo

Don't get me wrong but everytime i heard about somebody leaving cake (no matter the reason and it's your right) it a long time customer and long time forum user but ony with few posts , let's say a newbie !!!



I don't think it's fair to perpetuate the notion that you must be newbie if you have a low post count. I recently decided to get involved with this forum, but I've been using Sonar since Version 2 (XL). There is no direct correlation.

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#31
MemphisJo
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RE: Is there a "Goodbye, Sonar" thread? 2009/03/11 00:33:56 (permalink)
Seen the price of Auto CAD recently...? music software is relatively cheap in comparison to most professional software products. I mean we spend a lot more on hardware and instruments don't we? I guess when something is tactile it naturally has more value, but the semi pros and pros making money (hopefully) from what they do shouldn't give two hoots as its a business expense and tax deductible.

Even if you are a hobbyist I recommend that get a business license and set up a small business, all your gear will be much cheaper.... enroll in some night classes at a community college and get the educational software versions, they are exactly the same. Just some ideas.
post edited by MemphisJo - 2009/03/11 00:51:21
#32
Marah
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RE: Is there a "Goodbye, Sonar" thread? 2009/03/11 01:25:25 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: Jim Roseberry

I notice both Billy Buck and Susan on the Reaper forums a whole lot nowadays (and they're not on those forums to complain either). Those two would certainly qualify as hardcore, non-newbie, and longtime Sonar users to me. Plus they were both on these forums a lot and contributed a lot of great stuff. Not to speak for them, but from what I see, both seem quite content with Reaper.


To my knowledge, neither have really "left" Sonar.
Billy is still here... and so is Susan.

Some of us are both here and there...


I'm also both "here and there," and happy to be in Susan G's, Billy Buck's, and Mr. Roseberry's company.
#33
k4ro
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RE: Is there a "Goodbye, Sonar" thread? 2009/03/11 01:59:15 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: rstollen
I don't think it's fair to perpetuate the notion that you must be a newbie if you have a low post count. I recently decided to get involved with this forum, but I've been using Sonar since Version 2 (XL). There is no direct correlation.


Amen. Some of us have been buying and using these products for almost two decades, yet we may appear new to this forum in terms of raw post counts. There also were other forums in years past that are apparently not referenced here. I can't find postings that I made in the late 1990's and early 2000's for example. Some of these may have been newsgroups or email lists; some even before the WWW. I wonder if there are archives available somewhere from years past? Any pointers appreciated.
#34
John
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RE: Is there a "Goodbye, Sonar" thread? 2009/03/11 02:19:12 (permalink)
I don't believe Zo was taking a cheap shot at anyone. One can read what he said as being a newbie here not new to Sonar. Also I don't put much into a poster's post count. What maters is the quality. Zo isn't the sort to attack anyone. I haven't seen him do it before thus if you read it this way its not anything other then a kinda funny greeting. Zo can speak for himself but sometimes we tend to jump on someone only because what is said is misunderstood.

Best
John
#35
Nick P
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RE: Is there a "Goodbye, Sonar" thread? 2009/03/11 04:25:33 (permalink)
digitalhecht - what DAW are you looking at to replace Sonar? I'm looking at bailing on Sonar (7PE) for Cubase 5.

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#36
v42x
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RE: Is there a "Goodbye, Sonar" thread? 2009/03/11 04:55:34 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: Nick P

digitalhecht - what DAW are you looking at to replace Sonar? I'm looking at bailing on Sonar (7PE) for Cubase 5.


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#37
Cheeto
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RE: Is there a "Goodbye, Sonar" thread? 2009/03/11 05:40:18 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: MemphisJo

Even if you are a hobbyist I recommend that get a business license and set up a small business, all your gear will be much cheaper....


Really? Could you expand on how that is possible in the hobbyist sense?
#38
Saintom
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RE: Is there a "Goodbye, Sonar" thread? 2009/03/11 05:47:31 (permalink)
My favorite part of these "I am leaving" posts they always have a different ending...


Tom



Sometimes we see the light, Sometimes we stare at the light, and wonder why it is so bright...
#39
Billy Buck
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RE: Is there a "Goodbye, Sonar" thread? 2009/03/11 08:19:34 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: Jim Roseberry

I notice both Billy Buck and Susan on the Reaper forums a whole lot nowadays (and they're not on those forums to complain either). Those two would certainly qualify as hardcore, non-newbie, and longtime Sonar users to me. Plus they were both on these forums a lot and contributed a lot of great stuff. Not to speak for them, but from what I see, both seem quite content with Reaper.


To my knowledge, neither have really "left" Sonar.
Billy is still here... and so is Susan.

Some of us are both here and there...



Yes, I am still here and still using SONAR and posting on the forums! But, I am also quite proficient & comfortable using REAPER and I still use ACID Pro 6 from time to time as well. Each app has it's strengths and idiosyncrasies. I like being well versed in a variety of DAW apps. I've learned that the grass is not always greener on the otherside and that no DAW host app is perfect or bug free. As a longtime SONAR user (every upgrade since v1.0), I will say that I am enjoying using SONAR more now than I have in a long time. SONAR 8PE is arguably the most feature packed version yet and I really appreciate the audio engine optimizations, better low latency performance and the overall increased stability in S8. My UAD plugins (UAD-2) have never worked better than they do now and I am quite happy about that as well.

So yes, I am quite content with REAPER but that does not mean I don't still like using SONAR. In fact, I am actually using SONAR more nowadays than REAPER.

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#40
CJaysMusic
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RE: Is there a "Goodbye, Sonar" thread? 2009/03/11 08:23:45 (permalink)
Really? Could you expand on how that is possible in the hobbyist sense?

Cheeto, you incorporate yourself and then you apply for a business licence with the state you live in. Then for the next 3 years 93 years is the limit to claim losses) you can claim all you overhead as loses...LOL and all your equipment is tax deductible. Even stuff you bought before you became incorporated.

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#41
Jonbouy
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RE: Is there a "Goodbye, Sonar" thread? 2009/03/11 09:30:43 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: Saintom

My favorite part of these "I am leaving" posts they always have a different ending...

Tom


Nah, they mostly see the complainant still hanging around here long after the farewell note...

Now I would like to be alone so don't try and follow me anyone, I'll be in the coffee house for a little while so don't look for me in there.

"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles.
In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
#42
SongCraft
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RE: Is there a "Goodbye, Sonar" thread? 2009/03/11 11:23:22 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: Jonbouy


ORIGINAL: Saintom

My favorite part of these "I am leaving" posts they always have a different ending...

Tom


Nah, they mostly see the complainant still hanging around here long after the farewell note...

Now I would like to be alone so don't try and follow me anyone, I'll be in the coffee house for a little while so don't look for me in there.

LOL!! *The Official Goodbye SONAR thread*

Goodbye SONAR!! Take care, don't mess with my settings whilst I'm gone... I will be back later! Got to go do some grocery shopping!! Bye, cheers, sayonara, au revoir, chow, see ya' later!!


 
 
#43
Arglebargle
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RE: Is there a "Goodbye, Sonar" thread? 2009/03/11 11:45:11 (permalink)
Good, leave, bye. Go use something else.

 
#44
Mike Kohlgraf
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RE: Is there a "Goodbye, Sonar" thread? 2009/03/11 12:06:09 (permalink)
I promise to use my Sonar 8.3 PE even MORE, as long as I don't see anymore "GOODBYE" and "SNAP TO GRID" posts anymore.


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#45
Fog
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RE: Is there a "Goodbye, Sonar" thread? 2009/03/11 12:21:08 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: Nick P

digitalhecht - what DAW are you looking at to replace Sonar? I'm looking at bailing on Sonar (7PE) for Cubase 5.


yep but you've not use cubase long enough to realise even that had issues in the past over the years.. When your moaning about updates for things that should have been included 8 months previously on release (cubase 4: native side chaining) you can try your usual posting on their board, and I don't think they'll give you so much leeway.

when you've used 3+ versions then I might take your opinion on cubase seriously..

I can't be doing with tire / tyre kickers. . Most of know your "style " of posting, but I only reply to these because others might not. If you take a measured approach to things, then great..

Yep.. I've use cubase a fair while, do I feel to QUALIFIED to comment on sonar ? nope after v9 perhaps.

I like aspects of the 3 things I use, but you obviously have a rose tinted glasses view of the industry if you think like that.

I can't take you seriously because of you bigging yourself about knowing how to make drum maps.. did you even bother to make any or post them? talk is cheap.

Ed, as for reason 4.. I've used that since 2.5 and currently use 4 .. as you said yourself it's not a fully fledged DAW , and was never intended to be. You only really get the FULL picture if your using it with Recycle.. which is another £100+. When other companies have cut their prices, partly because apple did to get people to buy mac's.. the price of reason didn't alter much.

They excell at multi sampling though.. I own all their packs except the bass one. If it wasn't for eXode / Lizard's etc.. excellent refills, then it wouldn't be so good for me. Reason is good in the sense of it's great for getting idea's down quickly, but due to the design ethos of it , it' limitations are a + and - to it.. e..g. it's ultra stable due to no 3rd party code (such as vst's) . As for thor, well that is probably my fav thing in it, BUT on my AMD rig, it really does eat cpu.


So can props charge as much as their rivals for updates of reason? nope.. there gets to a point with all of them you think .. do I want to spend the money on it? They probably have a marketing model of people will buy their refills + recycle as well, to get the complete picture you need all of them. If you look at the artist profiles on their site, you'll notice a fair few use it rewired to another host also.

I use all 3 things to get what I want done, there are aspects I like in each.
post edited by Fog - 2009/03/11 12:24:54
#46
vanceen
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RE: Is there a "Goodbye, Sonar" thread? 2009/03/11 12:34:38 (permalink)
As a long-time Cakewalk and SONAR user (since v. 1 for DOS), I think that a "Goodby, Sonar" thread would be a very good idea, IF people would give detailed and factual reasons for switching, and even more so if those reasons include why their new chosen platform is better.

This could help Cakewalk immensely by identifying the areas that matter to people enough to get them to switch.

Of course it doesn't help much if you get "SONAR sukzz, I get pop and click, make me CRAZY!!! stay on phone for 24 hourZ and then got called bad name..., Garage Band rockzzz!!!!"


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#47
cryophonik
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RE: Is there a "Goodbye, Sonar" thread? 2009/03/11 12:50:05 (permalink)
Well, I'll probably get shot down in flames for this, but here goes anyway. I'm pretty disheartened by some of the responses here and I think that some of you are taking it a little too personally. The OP is clearly a loyal long-time Cakewalk user and member of this forum, not some troll or newbie who is pissed off that he can't get his cracked version to work. I think we all need to cut him some slack, allow him to vent, and offer advice where we can. Personally, I don't see his particular issues being completely solved by going elsewhere, but that's his prerogative, as is his right to express his dissatisfaction with Cakewalk. It seems to me that a few years ago, this community would've been a little more compassionate and helpful.

Moreover, I see no problem with the "Goodbye Sonar" threads. Cakewalk, and even this community, should know who is considering leaving and why. We (Cakewalk and this forum) should make every effort to keep them here and treat them with at least as much respect and encouragement that we'd give to a first-time Sonar user/forum member.

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#48
digitalhecht
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RE: Is there a "Goodbye, Sonar" thread? 2009/03/11 13:21:52 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: cryophonik

Well, I'll probably get shot down in flames for this, but here goes anyway. I'm pretty disheartened by some of the responses here and I think that some of you are taking it a little too personally. The OP is clearly a loyal long-time Cakewalk user and member of this forum, not some troll or newbie who is pissed off that he can't get his cracked version to work. I think we all need to cut him some slack, allow him to vent, and offer advice where we can. Personally, I don't see his particular issues being completely solved by going elsewhere, but that's his prerogative, as is his right to express his dissatisfaction with Cakewalk. It seems to me that a few years ago, this community would've been a little more compassionate and helpful.

Moreover, I see no problem with the "Goodbye Sonar" threads. Cakewalk, and even this community, should know who is considering leaving and why. We (Cakewalk and this forum) should make every effort to keep them here and treat them with at least as much respect and encouragement that we'd give to a first-time Sonar user/forum member.

Best response here so far. My griping lies mostly with pricing, not performance (though that has been iffy at times). I guess I am feeling the crunch these days and, until today, was annoyed I couldn't get the latest, supposedly most stable Sonar yet. But after some thoughtful responses and some time to cool, I am taking the plunge. This despite still no response from CW customer service. How's that for customer loyalty? (Or I am an idiot.)

As for the switch, I am still going to play with Reaper (time permitting). Based on my musical skill level, after comparing the two, I may just find that Sonar is overkill for me.

As for you folks who didn't get my wife and kids reference: Please tell me I am not the only father/husband here who gets grief for a superfluous purchase with a $230 price tag! (I am going from PE 6 to PE 8, btw.) And there's no hiding it when the big brown truck rolls up and the dogs bark up a storm, and depending on the day, wake the baby. Please stay tuned for my next thread: The New Fathers' Project Studio in Limbo thread.
post edited by digitalhecht - 2009/03/11 13:30:59
#49
inmazevo
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RE: Is there a "Goodbye, Sonar" thread? 2009/03/11 13:27:34 (permalink)
[deleted post made in anger]
Sorry for the post. Not my usual character. Had a bad day. No excuse, though.

Good luck to the OP.
And thanks cryo for the reminder.

FWIW (to the OP):
Software development cost is increasing, particularly if you sell your software internationally and have to localize/internationalize your product. I do software for a living, and I'm surprised at the complexities of it.
As consumers, you can control a bit of how it hits you by skipping releases. Of course, it costs more to upgrade older versions now (something I agree I don't agree with, and don't like... feels like a punishment to me, and isn't frankly an incentive). However, it's still cheaper than upgrading yearly (another thing I don't like: yearly release cycles).

I'm skipping version 8, and don't feel any inclination to upgrade to it, despite the fact that if I decide to get version 9, it'll cost me $50 more than if I HAD upgraded to 8. Net savings is still substantial.

Again, good luck.
And again, apologies.

- zevo
post edited by inmazevo - 2009/03/11 13:39:11
#50
Fog
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RE: Is there a "Goodbye, Sonar" thread? 2009/03/11 13:35:56 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: digitalhecht

As for you folks who didn't get my wife and kids reference: Please tell me I am not the only father/husband here who gets grief for a superfluous purchase with a $230 price tag! (I am going from PE 6 to PE 8, btw.) And there's no hiding it when the big brown truck rolls up and the dogs bark up a storm, and depending on the day, wake the baby. Please stay tuned for my next thread: The New Fathers' Project Studio in Limbo thread.



your not, some of the users here are grand parents even. I won't say who , because they are young at heart and I don't think of them as old enough to be, because of their attitude mainly.

I don't have a family, but a friend has recently had his first kid and although over the moon, said.. jeez it's a money pit..
(I think it's personally that his wife / mum isn't paying him as much attention now and the baby gets it and he's miffed..hehe)

on the front your saying about the pricing.. I have the same issue with another company (not cakewalk).. in the sense of people 2 versions before are getting the same deal, so it's ironic in that way.
post edited by Fog - 2009/03/11 13:52:13
#51
inmazevo
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RE: Is there a "Goodbye, Sonar" thread? 2009/03/11 14:13:49 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: Fog
on the front your saying about the pricing.. I have the same issue with another company (not cakewalk).. in the sense of people 2 versions before are getting the same deal, so it's ironic in that way.


Ironic, isn't it?
If you charge the same amount, the way Adobe and Steinberg used to with some things (though there's usually a cutoff), people get mad about it.
If you charge a different amount, people get mad about it.

Adobe and Steinberg now, however, go back a few versions at the same price point, but past that you'll barely get a 10% discount on the upgrade. It's almost like you never had it, since you can usually find legit versions (full) for less money than the upgrade price.
They don't do it with every app (and the Adobe Creative Suite upgrade pricing is a maze of combinations), of course. But Adobe seems to change their scheme entirely from year to year, and Steinberg right now charges a fortune for people upgrading to Cubase 5 from Cubase SL/SX 2 or earlier... it's obscene.

Odd.

I wish Cake would bring back the:
Upgrade to current version, get next version upgrade free thing... it was great. If you're on 7, but skipped 8, you can upgrade to a (hopefully) fully stabilized version of 8 and use it while waiting for 9 to be stabilized. Loved that, but they seem to have stopped doing it.

PS - I have a wife and kid and mortgage and taxes as well, and frankly:
If the difference in upgrade price is breaking the bank, I'd skip it, and be worried about THAT. <$100 causing financial concern is a serious matter, it really is. I don't say that lightly... I've been broke before, and check to check just to catch up. Upgrading software in that position isn't likely wise.

- zevo
post edited by inmazevo - 2009/03/11 14:23:00
#52
wetdentist
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RE: Is there a "Goodbye, Sonar" thread? 2009/03/11 14:24:04 (permalink)
my god, i watched that 6 hour documentary "the money masters" last year, and while very informative, it became a bit overbearing with the narrator pointing all the time at me with his pen

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#53
Richard Fey
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RE: Is there a "Goodbye, Sonar" thread? 2009/03/11 14:54:41 (permalink)
Let your frustration fade... It always does... If you have a diet coke and a donut and think about beaches or skiing or golf for a few minutes that might help... Look at something pink (they say its calming)... Then do what you feel you need to... Sonar is fantastic for many, many people... Maybe its not fantastic for you... That's ok... Have fun wherever you end up, and try not to let frustration dictate, motivate, or steer your decisions... Wait until you can think clearly... Then have another diet coke and a donut and decide away...


This is always good advice. And remember, try not to burn too many bridges along your way, we will miss you while you're gone!
#54
Jonbouy
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RE: Is there a "Goodbye, Sonar" thread? 2009/03/11 15:57:15 (permalink)
I think we all need to cut him some slack, allow him to vent, and offer advice where we can.


Quite right and I personally still think it's attention seeking behaviour which I'd still call out 99 times out of 100 (and glad I'm allowed too). I'd consider it a failing if I didn't treat my kids the same way when their bottom lip starts curling down and they start kicking up.

I'm completely with Fog here and will use whatever things that suit the way I work if they don't I move on to something that does. Regardless of what gets claimed I reckon brand loyalty is quite rightly low on anyones requirements list TBH. If a company can't compete in a competitive market it will die the same death that every commercial company faces in the western world. If I start using Reaper or any another competing DAW to the extent I use Sonar I shall turn up unannounced there my bottom line honest appraisal being where my money gets spent on future purchases.

If I thought my DAW sucked to the point I felt I needed to inflict my misery on everyone that was prepared to listen I'd have probably moved on by now. Just a difference in style that's all if I'm allowed it.

I'm always on the lookout for stuff that is capable of taking me where I I'm trying to go (wherever that is) the only sort of 'loyalty' I'm bound to presently is the fact that for something to usurp Sonar for me now would take a big learning curve and while I'm constantly trialling other things nothing has made me yet go I've got to have that instead....maybe as well as but not instead of.

I don't think anyone here was not cutting the OP slack or allowing him to vent or witholding advice, but I've gotta confess to find these kinda dramatic exits tiresome already. Forgive me it's a failing of mine I know.

post edited by Jonbouy - 2009/03/11 16:03:57

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#55
whattarush
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RE: Is there a "Goodbye, Sonar" thread? 2009/03/11 16:07:53 (permalink)
Well, I too must confess that last night I said goodbye to SONAR.
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But today when I get home from work, I'll say hello once again and get re-acquainted.

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#56
bapu
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RE: Is there a "Goodbye, Sonar" thread? 2009/03/11 16:07:55 (permalink)
but ony with few posts , let's say a newbie !!!


few post count + long time member/user = newbie??

IMHO, NOT! I'm a perfect (opposite) example of that.
#57
MatsonMusicBox
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RE: Is there a "Goodbye, Sonar" thread? 2009/03/11 16:15:54 (permalink)
I wish it were leased - straight out $200-$300 a year - as long as you are paying the payment, you get to use whatever version you want. When you stop paying, your software quits working at the end of the year. Put everyone on a calendar year and pro-rate their lease payments if they start up in the middle of the year.

I've said it before in more detail, but will reiterate a core belief I have here.

$200 .... $300 ... even $500 a year for a primary work tool or a serious hobby primary tool is DIRT CHEAP compared to most tools and serious hobbies.
#58
ba_midi
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RE: Is there a "Goodbye, Sonar" thread? 2009/03/11 16:19:28 (permalink)
You should see all the *HELLO SONAR!* Threads too :)

Especially the ones like:

"I just bought Sonar and it doesn't make any sound. What's wrong with this program???"


post edited by ba_midi - 2009/03/11 16:26:20

Billy Arnell (ba-midi)

http://www.ba-midi.com/music/files
Music gives me life, so I give life Music.
Thanks for listening - Let's Dance to the rhythm of life! :)
#59
John
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RE: Is there a "Goodbye, Sonar" thread? 2009/03/11 16:24:11 (permalink)
Moreover, I see no problem with the "Goodbye Sonar" threads. Cakewalk, and even this community, should know who is considering leaving and why. We (Cakewalk and this forum) should make every effort to keep them here and treat them with at least as much respect and encouragement that we'd give to a first-time Sonar user/forum member.
Why? Either you use the software or you don't. I don't care who is "leaving". To think anyone gives a rats butt about this is the epitome of deluded self importance. The only time I care is when its some one I know here and will miss them but I don't care what software they use. That is not the case with this poster. I don't care about at all.

Then there is this idea that using other software means you no longer use your current software. Where does this notion come from?

In the past I had Pro Audio and Logic on the same computer. I kept up with both until Emagic was taken over by Apple. Do any of you care that I was using Logic at that time as well as Pro Audio then Sonar?

Oh here is a tidbit for you I use Firefox on Vista. I didn't go to the Microsoft web site to let them know. Should I?


BTW You can delete Sonar from your computer. You can destroy the DVDs. You can stay away from this forum but you are still a Sonar user. Once you buy Sonar there is no going back. You are as far as CW is concerned a lifetime user of Sonar. The EULA clearly states all this.
post edited by John - 2009/03/11 16:36:14

Best
John
#60
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