M_Glenn_M
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Is there a way to do a survey of how folks do drums?
It seems there are a lot of great ways to get drum tracks in. (I started by buying a DR880) Once you choose any quality method, there is a lot of work to do learning it. It seems unlikely anyone could take the time to learn several of them. So do most folks just randomly choose one method and ignore the others? How did you choose?
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sharke
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Re:Is there a way to do a survey of how folks do drums?
2012/09/30 23:12:41
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Positively Charged
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Re:Is there a way to do a survey of how folks do drums?
2012/09/30 23:14:39
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In my opinion, the best way to do a poll is to just ask. Official "polls" usually don't offer enough selections for people to just give you a conversational answer of how they like to do it. The answers probably won't fit into a cookie cutter poll form. I know mine won't. :D
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M_Glenn_M
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Re:Is there a way to do a survey of how folks do drums?
2012/09/30 23:38:42
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Maybe if folks just say what they use and how they decided on the method or program they did? So far because I took the time to learn it, I've been bringing Audio samples in from the DR880 and editing them into place. I'm assuming I can do better with a more modern approach with soft synths. Glenn
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Bub
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Re:Is there a way to do a survey of how folks do drums?
2012/10/01 00:13:52
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You better sit down, cause you're gonna fall down laughing if you don't ... After over a decade of trying to get my drums to sound real, the most realistic drums I ever recorded ... were with a set of Rock Band plastic drums. I played along with a click track and did my own thing. It taught me that it's better to do what comes natural, rather than to 'adapt' to an unnatural point and click method of doing something that you really need to feel and has a rhythm. Now, I'm sure I could go out and spend a few grand on a nice midi set of drums, but I just can't justify that. These 4 little pads and a faux kick work just fine for getting the actual 'feel' of playing. There are free drivers out there, and it works latency free with Sonar using Session Drummer, and SI Drums, and the 'drums' can be had for $20 bucks at your local pawn shop since the whole Rock Band craze has died ... You can even get cymbals for them ... Yeah, I have to go in and do some velocity adjustments after the fact, but nothing IMO compares to actually playing a beat. Heck, I've even tapped a beat in to a mic and used Audio Snap to convert it to midi and brought it in to Session Drummer. Any time you can do a live beat, it's going to sound better IMO. But I played out live for many years and I'm used to playing with imperfect humans ... it takes some getting used to play with perfectly timed drums done in Step Sequencer ... imo.
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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Silicon Audio
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Re:Is there a way to do a survey of how folks do drums?
2012/10/01 00:25:52
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It's much more fun to just record the real thing! Here's how I do it: SM57 on snare batter head Condenser mic under snare (don't forget to flip the phase) ATM25 inside bass drum (for good attack) LD condener outside bass drum sound hole (for extra boom) CAD dynamics for toms Pair of SD condensors on overhead duties I don't use room mics unless I have a really good room. I used to mic drums like the live sound guys do and never liked the sound (too much over-tone). I figured out through experimentation to pull them further from the batter heads. Live sound guys are going for maximum gain before feedback, but for recording, you want at least 3 or 4 inches. Use supercardioids if you want to reduce bleed. This way you get much more fundamental tone and less overtone.
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QuadCore
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Re:Is there a way to do a survey of how folks do drums?
2012/10/01 00:30:50
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If you don't have access to real drums, the next best thing is to use E-drums. You can use E-drums even if you aren't a drummer but have enough rhythm to get it done by playing things separately and do overdubs, it is probably the easiest way to get just what you want to hear. You can keep it simple, and then edit the resulting midi file - say by playing closed high-hat, and then editing in some open high-hats to make it interesting. You can create drums for verse, chorus, bridge etc. by playing a few bars of each, quantizing and looping the sections you want to keep. Play fills and cymbals separately, later, when the song is completely written and arranged, and drop them in to replace the loop where appropriate. Any sort of velocity sensitive trigger pad(s) will do the trick, or even a midi keyboard.
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Glyn Barnes
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Re:Is there a way to do a survey of how folks do drums?
2012/10/01 01:17:11
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If I am rolling my own I will often use QuadCore's method, just using a Midi keyboard. I have got pads on my A-Pro 800 but just seem to get on with the keys better. If you need to quatatise I find groove quantatise the most useful, copy something with the correct groove and groove quantatise to the clipboard. Experiment with the settings until you get close and then go back an tweak individual hits as required. Useful if a part has been made in step sequencer or entered in PRV. And a lot of the time I take the lazy approach and use a "session player" - in the form of Midi loops. The drum sounds come from Toontrack Superior Drummer with various SDX and EZX packs, BFD Eco, Steven Slate Drums and some Kontakt libraries. I will also fire up Kit Core occasionaly, it used to be my goto but these days I will use it for its midi loops and the latin drums.
post edited by Glyn Barnes - 2012/10/01 01:23:22
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:Is there a way to do a survey of how folks do drums?
2012/10/01 03:46:02
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I do all of my drum tracks using BFD2 I used to roll them all my own, from scratch, one hit at a time, adjusting velocity/timing as I went. Extremely laborious & time consuming. Now, I choose a set of stock grooves from BFD's palette and manually tweak these to get the feel I want and I've gotten some great (to my ears) results from doing it this way.
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Kalle Rantaaho
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Re:Is there a way to do a survey of how folks do drums?
2012/10/01 06:06:41
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I do what Jonesey does, only with Addictive Drums. As the MIDI loops are played by real drummers, and they include ghost strokes and everything, it's very easy to get a very natural result. Tweaking the EQ's , compressors etc. is another thing. It is so easy that I don't see any problems in learning other methods, if I needed to. But as I only use natural sounds (sometimes supported by "machine beats") AD does all I need. I'm sure recording the real drums is the hardest, and longest way to satisfactory results, even though when you finally get there, you have the "real stuff".
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tbosco
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Re:Is there a way to do a survey of how folks do drums?
2012/10/01 06:35:43
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Wow! What a loaded question! I dare say there are as many ways to "do drums" as there are recordists. I think it really depends on what you want your drums to "do" in any given track. I myself "do drums" differently on nearly every song I write for some reason...maybe I'm still experimenting. But I will do anything from using a great drum module such as EZ Drummer, Cakewalk's Session Drummer, or Addictive Drums along with the beats/grooves that come with them, to using NI Battery with either a drum pad or my MIDI keyboard and just "beat" a groove in, or sort through the millions of drum beat sample loops that are available to drop in and keep the pulse of my tune. And of course, there is always the option to mic up a set of real drums and have at it or plug in a set of MIDI drums and let a real drummer play (not me...lol). And don't forget about "layering" these different methods too, as I have found some VERY interesting sounds and patterns created by combining a loop with an EZ Drummer beat for instance, or maybe laying some additional beats with Battery on top of a drum loop. More often than not, I will usually utilize some sort of combination of these methods. So for me, it really depends on the song, the feel, and the emotion I want to coax out of the tune. In fact, a lot of times it's the drum groove that inspires the whole rest of the tune for me! Good luck and happy drumming!
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Kenneth
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Re:Is there a way to do a survey of how folks do drums?
2012/10/01 06:37:42
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I use my Roland Octapad (SPD-30) to record snare kick toms live no quantize, you get lots of little velocity/timing differences that would take ages to plug in and edit manually in prv, and hihats ride and cymbals recorded as audio, just never could stand sampled cymbals. I always played to a click even live so that's no problem, although even a little latency can mess with your head, but oh well, what's another take :D You can quickly build up your own library of hihat ride patterns and it just sounds so much better. I use Steven Slate Platinum for samples, but I'm saving up for a mixosaurus kit.
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mudgel
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Re:Is there a way to do a survey of how folks do drums?
2012/10/01 07:06:20
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Can't play drums to save my life. I have good rythmn in my hands but not legs and feet. for me it Superior Drummer 2 and choose from the thousands of MIDI clips that come with it. They've been played by real drummers who have the chops I don't. Mind you I have spent most of my time recording others so I've had to do a bit of drum replacement to fix live drumming.
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Guitarhacker
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Re:Is there a way to do a survey of how folks do drums?
2012/10/01 08:23:17
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I used to do the roll your own one mouse click at a time...then use copy and paste... time consuming, fake sounding, and boring parts. Then I heard about Jamstix which will create fairly realistic drum parts automatically. With an entry price around $100 it was worth every dime not to have to mouse click any more drum tracks. Easy to edit, lots of styles and drummer models and kits... so it's pretty versatile. www.rayzoon.com and they had a free demo last time I looked. JS will use the samples form some of the other "drummers" on the market. Loops are pretty cool and easy to use as well to make drum tracks.
My website & music: www.herbhartley.com MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface BMI/NSAI "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer "
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STinGA
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Re:Is there a way to do a survey of how folks do drums?
2012/10/01 08:51:12
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I am a drummer , so I play mine in live using a Roland TD6KV triggering Steven Slate Drums 4.0. The beauty of this method for me is I can adjust any inaccuracy using the PRV after the effect whilst still maintaining the feel I intended. Of course if the kit sound is wrong I just change the kits as needs be. My only drawback is with my hardware the TD6, it lacks the hihat feel and response I would ideally want from the real thing. Sadly I don't have the cash to splash out in one of the higher end eKits that caters for enhanced hi hat response..... One day :-). My place won't allow me to mic and record my acoustic kits, so the eKit is the way ahead.
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Mooch4056
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Re:Is there a way to do a survey of how folks do drums?
2012/10/01 09:19:18
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I just stick a shure 58 close to my mouth and cover the 58 screen with my hand and rap the drum beats .... Its AMAZING the realistic drum sounds I get. Freakin sounds Just like John Bonham ....
From Now On Call Me Conquistador! Donate to the cure Bapu Foundation Email: mooch4056@gmail.com for more info
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robert_e_bone
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Re:Is there a way to do a survey of how folks do drums?
2012/10/01 09:35:27
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I generally record with rudimentary sequenced drum parts, entered using Native Instruments Battery 3, which is a superb drum synth, and then try to have a real drummer come back in to do cymbals - and sometimes fills, as needed. Sometimes, I just go with the Battery 3 cymbals, as they are quite good. Many times I will have a drummer input using an electronic set, and will then adjust sounds and such as needed - this preserves the most realistic feel possible, while still allowing full control over stereo placement, levels, and effects of each individual drum/cymbal. I do create custom kits with the exact set of drums and individual drum samples that I want, for a particular sound for each song, and then I create a Sonar drum map for that exact combination. In my custom kits I also assign outputs to different channels - Battery 3 has 16 stereo outputs, for a total of 32 outputs, which allows an AMAZING level of control in mixing - each drum and cymbal can have its own effects, leveling, and panning. The bottom line is that are a zillion ways to record drums, and what you choose depends on: 1. Choice 2. Ability 3. Available sounds 4. Available instrumentation In my opinion, Bob Bone
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Kenneth
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Re:Is there a way to do a survey of how folks do drums?
2012/10/01 09:39:45
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I've actually thought about trying that with audiosnap, any drummer can sing beats, so sing the hihat record it, grab the midi notes via audiosnap and paste them into pianoroll with a hihat sound.
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Blogman
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Re:Is there a way to do a survey of how folks do drums?
2012/10/01 10:00:49
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I have a 7pc Accoustic drum kit, Then I have some cheap Accoustic drums with Mesh heads (pretty much silent) and dual roland triggers and 3 TMC-6's. Gigastudio days I was triggering Larry seyer drums, nowadays I'm triggering NI studio drummer or abbey roads drummer series) I'm a pianist AND a drummer, so I prefer to play it down live on my Homeade e-drums. Also, Own Maschine which I use for techno, hip hop, pop. Hey Bub, I've actually used a rock band midi gtr to play chords on a sample patch. :)
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congalocke
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Re:Is there a way to do a survey of how folks do drums?
2012/10/01 10:15:01
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Anybody willing to post examples of some of their best work using their methods?
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Kev999
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Re:Is there a way to do a survey of how folks do drums?
2012/10/01 10:18:04
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I create my own drum parts from scratch in PRV, mainly using NI Battery 3. I normally start with a Battery kit (plus drum map) that I have used before and modify it to suit. I never use pre-existing drum patterns, grooves or loops. I don't understand how it would ever be possible to find the right pattern from the billions of possibilities anyway.
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tbosco
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Re:Is there a way to do a survey of how folks do drums?
2012/10/01 10:42:57
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Sure! If you go to the Cakewalk SONGS Forum, you can hear 2 of my pieces ("Chameleon's Reflection", and "Bridge of Sighs Remix".) Chameleon's Reflection uses mostly EZ Drummer beats along with a few loops and possibly a few drum sounds from my Motif layered in. Bridge of Sighs Remix uses mostly loops with some Battery 3 that I beat in on top. Enjoy, and let me know what ya think!
Cheers! Tony SONAR Platinum JNCS Computer with Asus X99 Motherboard (i7) Win10 Pro 64bit, 32GB RAM Motif XF7, Komplete 11, Ozone 7, Komplete Kontrol 88 keys, Softube Console 1, PreSonus Faderport 8, Focusrite ISA 430 Mk 2 Mic Pre, Yamaha HS8s and Sub Drawmer 3.1 Monitor Controller Fractal Axe FX 2 XL Guitar Processor Lots-o-Guitars
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tbosco
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Re:Is there a way to do a survey of how folks do drums?
2012/10/01 10:45:22
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My reply was to congalocke....
Cheers! Tony SONAR Platinum JNCS Computer with Asus X99 Motherboard (i7) Win10 Pro 64bit, 32GB RAM Motif XF7, Komplete 11, Ozone 7, Komplete Kontrol 88 keys, Softube Console 1, PreSonus Faderport 8, Focusrite ISA 430 Mk 2 Mic Pre, Yamaha HS8s and Sub Drawmer 3.1 Monitor Controller Fractal Axe FX 2 XL Guitar Processor Lots-o-Guitars
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karma1959
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Re:Is there a way to do a survey of how folks do drums?
2012/10/01 10:55:30
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I use 2 methods: 1) If I have a proper drummer who can lay down a good track, I use Roland V Pro electronic drums and record the MIDI information. Which I can then edit, etc and eventually run through BFD2 for great audio samples, which I wind up recording. 2) If I don't have access to a proper drummer, rather than me laying down some simple beat (that's all I can do on drums myself), I use one of hte 5,000 patterns included in BFD2 and edit it if needed & still use BFD2 for the audio samples to record. Hope this helps. Russ
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Guitarhacker
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Re:Is there a way to do a survey of how folks do drums?
2012/10/01 11:09:41
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congalocke Anybody willing to post examples of some of their best work using their methods? all of the music on my website/link to MY MUSIC on sound click.....is either Jamstix.... mostly the older stuff or Band in a Box drums ...similar to JS in that the program creates the tracks....BB is used on most of my more current tunes.
My website & music: www.herbhartley.com MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface BMI/NSAI "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer "
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sharke
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Re:Is there a way to do a survey of how folks do drums?
2012/10/01 11:15:30
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Kev999 I create my own drum parts from scratch in PRV, mainly using NI Battery 3. I normally start with a Battery kit (plus drum map) that I have used before and modify it to suit. I never use pre-existing drum patterns, grooves or loops. I don't understand how it would ever be possible to find the right pattern from the billions of possibilities anyway. You can actually do a lot to customize patterns and loops. It doesn't always sound good, but you can get some interesting beats by chopping up a drum loop into 4 or 8, and rearranging the parts to taste. Works better with electronic genres like drum & bass tbh. But I also experiment with taking MIDI patterns from something like NI's Drummer series, and editing and splicing them together to make new patterns.
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robert_e_bone
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Re:Is there a way to do a survey of how folks do drums?
2012/10/01 11:21:10
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Someone had asked about tunes with drumming examples above. Here is a link to a still RAW version of a cover I recorded. The tune is a progressive rock tune from back in the 70's, UK - In the Dead of Night. I have just the midi tracks down - no mixing whatsoever, and still need to add guitar and vocals. But it DOES have sequenced drums, with the exception of about 6 measures the ENTIRE piece has different drumming in each and every measure. It will give you somewhat of an idea of what you can do with sequenced drums. I use Native Instrument's Battery 3 for this. I set up a separate output for each drum/cymbal. Battery 3 has 32 outputs, setup in 16 sets of stereo outs. In sonar, I created a drum map for my custom kit, and set it up to have a separate track for each set of outputs, so every drum and cymbal has its own audio track in Sonar. This will allow complete control when I get ready to mix. Anyways, here is a quick and dirty YouTube movie with some random photos thrown in: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AP2PIiSDsUw Bob Bone
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tlw
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Re:Is there a way to do a survey of how folks do drums?
2012/10/01 13:18:05
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I use different tools depending on what kind of feel and sound I'm after. One thing I do know is I'm not a good drummer. For electronic music, generally it's a Machinedrum or MFB503 (a very cheap synth but has great analogue kick, toms and snare). Maybe backed up by an old 80s analogue drum synth or a Korg Wavedrum. Other times I use Session Drummer for a more "natural" feel, or Alesis SR-16 samples sequenced in Sonar (good for a vintage rock kind of sound). Other times I get my partner to plug in her electronic kit and record that, usually as MIDI rather than audio for ease of editing or changing samples. I never use third party loops simply because (1) they're never quite what I'm looking for and (2) I find it much quicker to tap a pattern into a sequencer than trawl through hundreds of MIDI/audio loops in the hope of finding the right one.
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BretB
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Re:Is there a way to do a survey of how folks do drums?
2012/10/01 15:44:27
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I suck at programing so I play them live using a Yamaha electric kit and record only the MIDI data. I use that to drive Steven Slate 4 samples. This gives me the option to quantize, edit, move, delete, etc. any notes needed.
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synkrotron
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Re:Is there a way to do a survey of how folks do drums?
2012/10/01 15:48:10
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Kev999 I create my own drum parts from scratch in PRV, mainly using NI Battery 3. I normally start with a Battery kit (plus drum map) that I have used before and modify it to suit. I never use pre-existing drum patterns, grooves or loops. I don't understand how it would ever be possible to find the right pattern from the billions of possibilities anyway. I am almost identical to Kev here and I hold the same opinions regarding pre-existing loops, MIDI clips etc, but I don't bother with drum maps any more. I'll start of with basic grooves first and then I'll start to flesh out the whole song and painstakingly go over virtually every note in PRV in an effort to make them sound "almost" real. To be honest, I create electronic music and so the expectations are slightly different compared to a conventional rock song for instance. One thing I have started to do is use the Step Sequencer with Battery and I'll develop a groove that way. When I've got a basic rhythm I'll bounce to clip and add grace notes and all the other edits in PRV.
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