cparmerlee
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Is there an alternative to Aria for the Garritan libraries?
I have the Garritan Jazz & Big Band 3 library. I bought it for working in Finale. The sounds are good enough for what I'm doing, and the Aria player seems to be stable under Finale. But when I try to use Aria under Sonar, it ain't so great. It works, but keeps going silent on all 16 tracks. I can't pick up any pattern that triggers this problem. I can be working along editing MIDI and suddenly the Aria tracks stop sounding while all the other synths in the project keep working. In the past, I was usually able to rectify this by reloading all the instruments into Aria. That worked, but was really annoying. Today I updated to the latest Aria engine (as it doesn't appear there has been an update to the Aria "Player" itself for several years). That definitely didn't improve things. I think they got worse. More frequent cases where the Aria tracks go silent. And now when I try to reload my template of sounds, I might have to do that three times before the right instruments are actually loaded into Aria. It does other goofy things like making certain instruments 1/10th the sound level of the others. I have been through every possible parameter I can think of and couldn't resolve that. I finally just gave in and boosted the gain through a compressor. I know there are some amazing horn libraries out there, but I don't want to spend $2000 when the Garritan sounds are good enough for my projects. But that player looks like a lost cause. I know the earlier Garritan packages used Kontact. Are there any options other than Aria for using these sounds in Sonar? Anybody have experience with First Call Horns? That is $199 and the samples sound good. That uses Kontact 5.
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g_randybrown
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Re: Is there an alternative to Aria for the Garritan libraries?
2015/08/24 14:10:13
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I haven't had issues but I use individual instances of Aria with Garritan products (GPO and IO) ...you might want to take this issue to their forum. http://forums.makemusic.com/viewforum.php?f=6 EDIT- fixed link
post edited by g_randybrown - 2015/08/24 14:24:00
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mugician41
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Re: Is there an alternative to Aria for the Garritan libraries?
2015/08/24 14:31:15
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You need to go into Sonar preferences and then to the Projects/Midi section and uncheck "zero controllers when play stops". Easy fix.....drove me crazy till I found it somewhere.
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cparmerlee
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Re: Is there an alternative to Aria for the Garritan libraries?
2015/08/24 14:33:53
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I am a little confused about Kontakt. I was thinking that might be an alternative that would run more reliably under Sonar. See http://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/samplers/kontakt-5-player/kontakt-player-vs.-kontakt/The free Kontakt 5 player seems to play only libraries that are purchased from NI whereas the purchased Kintakt 5 edition plays "unlicensed libraries". But then there is a crossgrade price for the purchased Kontakt 5 edition for $249 See http://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/samplers/kontakt-5-player/kontakt-player-vs.-kontakt/ It says "Only for registered users of qualifying 3rd party products that run in KONTAKT PLAYER. See list qualifying products. You won't be able to install and activate this version unless you own one of the required products listed above!" But the Garritan JABB library is on that list of qualifying crossgrade products. So it looks like one option would be to buy Kontakt 5 for $249 and run the Garritan libraries under that. I am guessing that would run very reliably under Sonar. I guess I will try running individual Aria instances to see if that works any better, but that seems really messy when dealing with a large ensemble.
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cparmerlee
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Re: Is there an alternative to Aria for the Garritan libraries?
2015/08/24 14:34:43
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mugician41
You need to go into Sonar preferences and then to the Projects/Midi section and uncheck "zero controllers when play stops". Easy fix.....drove me crazy till I found it somewhere.
Ahhh. Thanks.
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msorrels
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Re: Is there an alternative to Aria for the Garritan libraries?
2015/08/24 14:35:58
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Having Zero Controllers when Play Stops on causes so many problems I think they really need to change it to be defaulting the other way. Drove me nuts with one of the 8dio Kontakt instruments because it kept zeroing one of the filter knobs (but I didn't notice it did it). Since it didn't happen every single time I never connected the two. Not exactly sure why Sonar wasn't zeroing every time, that's a different issue, but when it would zero that controller it would animate the filter knob and cut off all the audio.
post edited by msorrels - 2015/08/24 14:44:19
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g_randybrown
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Re: Is there an alternative to Aria for the Garritan libraries?
2015/08/24 14:42:09
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mugician41
You need to go into Sonar preferences and then to the Projects/Midi section and uncheck "zero controllers when play stops". Easy fix.....drove me crazy till I found it somewhere.
ahh, yes I should have mentioned that considering most Garritan products don't make any sound when the mod wheel is all the way down.
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dcumpian
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Re: Is there an alternative to Aria for the Garritan libraries?
2015/08/24 15:27:39
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Duct tape your mod wheel all the way up until you are done recording your midi tracks.
I don't turn off "zero controllers when play stops" because it actually does perform other useful functions, like resetting pitch bends, etc. Anyway, once you've got the mod wheel data recorded, you can remove the tape...I'm only half kidding.
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cparmerlee
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Re: Is there an alternative to Aria for the Garritan libraries?
2015/08/24 16:07:17
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In my case, I don't think the pitch wheel is involved, or at least not the cause of the silence. I am using MIDI generated under Finale. That might have some pitch bends, but it wouldn't simultaneously hit all 13 of the tracks I have in Aria.
Is anyone using the Garritan libraries with Kontakt 5 and Sonar? Basically I just don't trust Aria because Finale/Garritan has been pretty close to out of business for a couple of years now.
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g_randybrown
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Re: Is there an alternative to Aria for the Garritan libraries?
2015/08/24 16:12:04
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In my case, I don't think the pitch wheel is involved, or at least not the cause of the silence.
We were talking about the mod wheel, not the pitch bend.
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cparmerlee
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Re: Is there an alternative to Aria for the Garritan libraries?
2015/08/24 16:25:05
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g_randybrown
We were talking about the mod wheel, not the pitch bend.
OK. Either way, I don't think there would be a case where my Finale-generated MIDI would turn off all 13 tracks at the same time. Something else is broken here, I believe. But I have set that option and will try that for awhile to see if it is more stable. If the software were working right, then it seems to me either setting would be OK.
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michael diemer
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Re: Is there an alternative to Aria for the Garritan libraries?
2015/08/24 16:48:59
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Do you put in a starting volume level? I use Aria, and I have to add a controller event #7, which I set to 80 or higher, at the very beginning. Then I use cc#11 to set volume changes on the fly. Sometimes I have to put the cc7 event in again at a later point to bring the base volume back up.
post edited by michael diemer - 2015/08/24 16:59:35
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cparmerlee
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Re: Is there an alternative to Aria for the Garritan libraries?
2015/08/24 19:07:00
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michael diemer
Do you put in a starting volume level? I use Aria, and I have to add a controller event #7, which I set to 80 or higher, at the very beginning. Then I use cc#11 to set volume changes on the fly. Sometimes I have to put the cc7 event in again at a later point to bring the base volume back up.
I have a little MIDI stub file that I insert in each Aria track before any of the Finale stuff. I think I had put volume controls there in the past, but nowadays, that file just has a pan command to center (64). I take the mono-left channel out of each of the Aria tracks, so it is important to pan to the center so all the channels will have the same weight on the left channel, then I can do any needed panning within Sonar downstream of that. The Finale file is loaded with the #7 volume commands, so I don't think I need any of those. But I was surprised to not find any #11 commands anywhere in the stream. I wonder if #11 is getting set to zero on me sometimes. Maybe I should put a #11 value in my stub file.
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kitekrazy1
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Re: Is there an alternative to Aria for the Garritan libraries?
2015/08/24 19:49:44
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cparmerlee
I am a little confused about Kontakt. I was thinking that might be an alternative that would run more reliably under Sonar.
See http://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/samplers/kontakt-5-player/kontakt-player-vs.-kontakt/
The free Kontakt 5 player seems to play only libraries that are purchased from NI whereas the purchased Kintakt 5 edition plays "unlicensed libraries".
But then there is a crossgrade price for the purchased Kontakt 5 edition for $249 See
http://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/samplers/kontakt-5-player/kontakt-player-vs.-kontakt/
It says "Only for registered users of qualifying 3rd party products that run in KONTAKT PLAYER. See list qualifying products. You won't be able to install and activate this version unless you own one of the required products listed above!"
But the Garritan JABB library is on that list of qualifying crossgrade products.
So it looks like one option would be to buy Kontakt 5 for $249 and run the Garritan libraries under that. I am guessing that would run very reliably under Sonar.
I guess I will try running individual Aria instances to see if that works any better, but that seems really messy when dealing with a large ensemble.
Those files will mot run under Kontakt but Kontakt comes with an orchestra which would be useful.
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MarioD
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Re: Is there an alternative to Aria for the Garritan libraries?
2015/08/24 20:23:44
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Garritan J&BB runs fine on my system. When using Aria I select J&BB and then the standard and not notation. Which one are you using? I also select either my keyboard or Akai USB wind controller with both set to channel one. If you have yours set to ohmi maybe when you use your mod wheel (CC1) it turns off your volume.
There was an earlier version of J&BB that was Kontakt powered. Google/bing and you may find an old copy for sale. However I would try to figure out what is happening with your system because if it works for me and others it should work for you.
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cparmerlee
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Re: Is there an alternative to Aria for the Garritan libraries?
2015/08/24 20:37:30
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MarioD
Garritan J&BB runs fine on my system. When using Aria I select J&BB and then the standard and not notation. Which one are you using?
I have been using "notation" usually. I will try standard instruments. MarioD
I also select either my keyboard or Akai USB wind controller with both set to channel one. If you have yours set to ohni maybe when you use your mod wheel (CC1) it turns off your volume.
Actually I am only using MIDI generated by Finale. I am not playing into the synth. I have each of the cnalles assigned explicitly. MarioD
There was an earlier version of J&BB that was Kontakt powered.
I do have that original Garritan version that ran with Kintakt. I upgraded to the JABB3 that uses Aria. I'd rather not try to have both running on my system, so I will try these other ideas first. Thanks.
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rabeach
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Re: Is there an alternative to Aria for the Garritan libraries?
2015/08/24 22:46:10
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although it may be something else this does appear to be the classic mod wheel set to zero silencing aria inside sonar. did you try unchecking the zero controllers when play stops, amd/or move the mod wheel to see if sound comes back. the kontakt version will also result in silence with mod wheel set to zero in sonar. according to finale documentation it appears that you can use the mixer in finale to control volume of the aria synth instead of the mod wheel.
post edited by rabeach - 2015/08/24 23:37:59
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cparmerlee
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Re: Is there an alternative to Aria for the Garritan libraries?
2015/08/24 23:52:01
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rabeach
although it may be something else this does appear to be the classic mod wheel set to zero silencing aria inside sonar. did you try unchecking the zero controllers when play stops, amd/or move the mod wheel to see if sound comes back. the kontakt version will also result in silence with mod wheel set to zero in sonar.
I did not do anything with a mod wheel. The MIDI was already in the file, imported from Finale and it didn't have any mod wheel commands in it. I do have a MIDI synth, so I guess I could trigger a signal and get it to Aria. My synth has 2 wheels, but they aren't marked. One is spring-loaded to return to center and that does a pitch bend. The other is not spring loaded and seems to control tremolo on the patches I listened to. Is that the wheel you are talking about? Couldn't I just insert a mod wheel command at the beginning of my MIDI file? But again, I am confused because Aria will play 16 different sounds on the different channels and they all go away at the same time. Wouldn't the mod wheel pertain only to one channel at a time? I think I have neglected to ask the most basic question here. For those that are using Aria successfully with Sonar, what release are you running? For me, the player is 1.620 and I could not find any update later than that. The engine, however, is 1.830, which I believe is the most current, dated 8/24/15. Are these the versions that you use?
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michael diemer
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Re: Is there an alternative to Aria for the Garritan libraries?
2015/08/25 00:36:40
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You can indeed submit a mod wheel command at the beginning of the track. As I said before, put in a cc7 event, set it to at least 80, and you will have a mod wheel command for that track. The base volume will remain at that level, so you won't get a drop in volume. At least you shouldn't. but if you do, put it in again at that point. Use cc11 for fine adjustments.
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rabeach
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Re: Is there an alternative to Aria for the Garritan libraries?
2015/08/25 02:07:38
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I don't have aria I still use the kontakt player but doesn't the aria player have a mod wheel next to the virtual keyboard on the vsti itself.
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rabeach
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Re: Is there an alternative to Aria for the Garritan libraries?
2015/08/25 02:07:38
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duplicate post
post edited by rabeach - 2015/08/25 02:17:15
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Susan G
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Re: Is there an alternative to Aria for the Garritan libraries?
2015/08/25 07:47:54
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cparmerlee
I think I have neglected to ask the most basic question here. For those that are using Aria successfully with Sonar, what release are you running?
For me, the player is 1.620 and I could not find any update later than that.
The engine, however, is 1.830, which I believe is the most current, dated 8/24/15.
Are these the versions that you use?
Hi Craig- The version I have for both is 1.620. Here's a quote from the Garritan Knowledge Base: http://garritan.custhelp....wers/detail/a_id/5302/As of ARIA Player 1.111, the player and engine versions should be the same (unless you own Garritan Abbey Road Studios CFX Concert Grand in addition to a separate library, in which case the engine version will be higher than the player).Version 1.620 is the most current version of the ARIA Player. There's a download link on that page as well. See also: http://ariaengine.com/support/aria-engine-update/ Maybe you're encountering a version mismatch? -Susan
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cparmerlee
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Re: Is there an alternative to Aria for the Garritan libraries?
2015/08/25 09:31:16
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michael diemer
You can indeed submit a mod wheel command at the beginning of the track. As I said before, put in a cc7 event, set it to at least 80, and you will have a mod wheel command for that track. The base volume will remain at that level, so you won't get a drop in volume. At least you shouldn't. but if you do, put it in again at that point. Use cc11 for fine adjustments.
The way Finale does this data, it uses CC7 commands all over the place. There are probably over 100 of those commands all through the file on each track, so I don't think that is the issue. But there aren't any cc11 commands that I can see.
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cparmerlee
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Re: Is there an alternative to Aria for the Garritan libraries?
2015/08/25 09:39:52
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Susan G
The version I have for both is 1.620. Here's a quote from the Garritan Knowledge Base: http://garritan.custhelp....wers/detail/a_id/5302/
As of ARIA Player 1.111, the player and engine versions should be the same (unless you own Garritan Abbey Road Studios CFX Concert Grand in addition to a separate library, in which case the engine version will be higher than the player).
Version 1.620 is the most current version of the ARIA Player.
There's a download link on that page as well.
See also: http://ariaengine.com/support/aria-engine-update/
Maybe you're encountering a version mismatch?
Maybe so. I read that note the opposite way. I took that to mean that it was Garritan's intention to put out a new player release for each engine release, but because of the turmoil at Makemusic (I think Gary Garritan is no longer with the company) they never followed through on that practice. The note seems to imply that it is best to upgrade the player, but if you can't do that, you should go ahead and update the engine. There have been many bug fixes to the engine since 1.620. I'd hate to think I have to pack off all those fixes, because many of them looked pretty significant.
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Susan G
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Re: Is there an alternative to Aria for the Garritan libraries?
2015/08/25 09:45:53
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cparmerlee
Susan G
The version I have for both is 1.620. Here's a quote from the Garritan Knowledge Base: http://garritan.custhelp....wers/detail/a_id/5302/
As of ARIA Player 1.111, the player and engine versions should be the same (unless you own Garritan Abbey Road Studios CFX Concert Grand in addition to a separate library, in which case the engine version will be higher than the player).
Version 1.620 is the most current version of the ARIA Player.
There's a download link on that page as well.
See also: http://ariaengine.com/support/aria-engine-update/
Maybe you're encountering a version mismatch?
Maybe so. I read that note the opposite way. I took that to mean that it was Garritan's intention to put out a new player release for each engine release, but because of the turmoil at Makemusic (I think Gary Garritan is no longer with the company) they never followed through on that practice. The note seems to imply that it is best to upgrade the player, but if you can't do that, you should go ahead and update the engine. There have been many bug fixes to the engine since 1.620. I'd hate to think I have to pack off all those fixes, because many of them looked pretty significant.
Well, all I can tell you is that it says 1.620 is the most current version of the Player, that the versions should match and that version 1.620 of the Player combined with the 1.620 version of the engine is working fine here. -Susan
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MarioD
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Re: Is there an alternative to Aria for the Garritan libraries?
2015/08/25 16:37:50
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I just did a quick test using Aria and J&BB. In my test CC7 did nothing, that is no sound what-so-ever until I moved the mod wheel (CC2). All of the volume changes were controlled by CC2 not CC7. Note that I don't have Finale so I can't test using it.
Try going to process and click on find/change and change all of the CC7s to CC2's and see what happens. Of course do this on a copy and not on your only version.
Let us know how you make out.
PS - Susan beat me to the engine and player version thing. Try that also.
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Beepster
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Re: Is there an alternative to Aria for the Garritan libraries?
2015/08/25 17:17:06
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This is likely completely stupid (and I apologize in advance... this whole thread is confusing as hell to me) but the Garritan Pocket Orchestra we got a couple years ago plays fine through DimPro.
Will the full on Garritan stuff not play through DP (or maybe DP just doesn't have the functionality the ARIA thingie does)?
Just mentioning it because... well maybe it would be a solution. I have no idea though.
i'll go be stoopid somewhere esle now...
:-p
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cparmerlee
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Re: Is there an alternative to Aria for the Garritan libraries?
2015/08/25 22:45:39
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Beepster
Will the full on Garritan stuff not play through DP
I was thinking the same thing. The GPO shows up on my Dim Pro list of instruments, but unfortunately the jazz and big band library does not. Maybe there is a way to get DimPro to recognize that. It would be a little tedious to have 14 instances of DimPro, but I guess that's no big deal after I have a template set up for that. Any idea how one would go about getting DimPro to use the JABB libraries?
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cparmerlee
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Re: Is there an alternative to Aria for the Garritan libraries?
2015/08/25 22:48:44
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MarioD
Try going to process and click on find/change and change all of the CC7s to CC2's and see what happens. Of course do this on a copy and not on your only version.
I will try that. At this point, I am not able to make Aria go silent on my command. It always happened at seemingly random times. It hasn't gone silent since I changed the "zero controllers when play stops" setting, but I haven't been doing much on that project. I will need to allocate a block of time to do so heavy editing, so I probably cannot do that until next week. Thanks for the suggestion.
DAW: SONAR Platinum Audio I/F: Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 gen2
OS: Windows 10 64-bit CPU: Haswell 4790 4.0 GHz, 4 core, 8 thread Memory: 16 GB Video: GTX-760Ti
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scook
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Re: Is there an alternative to Aria for the Garritan libraries?
2015/08/25 22:52:39
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cparmerlee
Beepster
Will the full on Garritan stuff not play through DP
I was thinking the same thing. The GPO shows up on my Dim Pro list of instruments, but unfortunately the jazz and big band library does not. Maybe there is a way to get DimPro to recognize that. It would be a little tedious to have 14 instances of DimPro, but I guess that's no big deal after I have a template set up for that. Any idea how one would go about getting DimPro to use the JABB libraries?
I thought Garritan extended the sfz spec with proprietary tags. Could be wrong though, don't have anything other than the DPro bundled Garritan library.
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