vladasyn
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Is there still no way to clear empty meassures in the middle of the song?
Hey there
I need to shorten a song- turn it from extended mix to radio mix. I need to shorten the intro and delete several parts in the middle to shorten it from 7 minutes to 3.5-4 minutes. This song is 100 tracks wide and it is very difficult to move parts without accidentally place something in the wrong track. I am looking for the way to let's say delete all clips between measure 17 and 33 and then have Sonar delete 16 measures and automatically close the empty space. Can this be done? If this feature is still not available, it has to be added to the Sonar as it is almost impossible to accurately select that many tracks and move them back to close the empty space manually. Thank you.
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Is there still no way to clear empty meassures in the middle of the song?
2016/09/20 03:12:14
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I believe that's coming in the ripple edit update at some point. I miss it too.
Since presumably the radio edit has the same basic mix as the extended mix perhaps you could bounce down first and then make the cut?
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orhanproject
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Re: Is there still no way to clear empty meassures in the middle of the song?
2016/09/20 03:56:34
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I too would like to see a better and easier way of doing things like this. Imagine also having automation data on several tracks and make a radio edit of an extended edit is frustrating, everything can go wrong...
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Is there still no way to clear empty meassures in the middle of the song?
2016/09/20 05:30:15
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Sanderxpander
I believe that's coming in the ripple edit update at some point. I miss it too.
Since presumably the radio edit has the same basic mix as the extended mix perhaps you could bounce down first and then make the cut?
This is exactly what I would do
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slartabartfast
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Re: Is there still no way to clear empty meassures in the middle of the song?
2016/09/20 05:41:03
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This is unfortunately a tragedy of the SONAR development process. The ability to remove a chunk of data from a multi-track project and close the gap seamlessly (what other DAW's term ripple editing) is such an essential editing process that the failure to be able to do this as a simple procedure has seriously impacted the utility of the DAW. Prior versions had a delete space that came close, and is now less than fully functional. There are kludges that will allow you to accomplish what you want, and I assume that the programming involved is not trivial, or the problem would never have surfaced. Nevertheless, the priority of fixing this, or more accurately making the original concept work as expected, cannot be underestimated. We all look forward to the success of the Cakewalk team in this effort. In the meantime, we should rejoice that they have let us change the colors of the interface.
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THambrecht
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Re: Is there still no way to clear empty meassures in the middle of the song?
2016/09/20 07:09:03
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We digitaze tapes and have also holes up to 1 or 2 hours of empty tape.
Deleting hole not possible.
I hope this comes with the new ripple edit.
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robert_e_bone
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Re: Is there still no way to clear empty meassures in the middle of the song?
2016/09/20 11:58:57
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Does it work if you put some data in one of the tracks in the measures during the 'hole section'?
I thought it would allow the collapsing of a hole, IF data was present.
I don't really have that issue come up much - so my above comment is one from memory. :)
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mettelus
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Re: Is there still no way to clear empty meassures in the middle of the song?
2016/09/20 12:03:19
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+1 for the mixdown and then edit the master comments. By far the simplest for what you intend to do.
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tenfoot
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Re: Is there still no way to clear empty meassures in the middle of the song?
2016/09/20 13:25:58
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☄ Helpfulby tlw 2016/09/20 20:39:42
vladasyn
This song is 100 tracks wide and it is very difficult to move parts without accidentally place something in the wrong track.
Holding down the shift key as you move the parts will stop you inadvertantly moving them to the wrong tracks. I suspect many of us are looking forward to fix/upgrade of this feature in the form of ripple editing.
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pinguinotuerto
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Re: Is there still no way to clear empty meassures in the middle of the song?
2016/09/20 13:27:54
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tenfoot
I suspect many of us are looking forward to fix/upgrade of this feature in the form of ripple editing.
Amen!
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gustabo
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Re: Is there still no way to clear empty meassures in the middle of the song?
2016/09/20 14:42:45
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Does no one do "Delete Special" and select delete hole?
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Anderton
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Re: Is there still no way to clear empty meassures in the middle of the song?
2016/09/20 14:44:08
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robert_e_bone
Does it work if you put some data in one of the tracks in the measures during the 'hole section'?
I thought it would allow the collapsing of a hole, IF data was present.
This is correct. While I look forward to Sony Vegas-style ripple editing (which I hope is the model Cakewalk chooses for a great way to do ripple editing), you can Delete Hole as you would expect but there are two constraints. 1. As Bob mentioned, as long as there is any data in audio tracks where you want to "delete hole" (and you select that data type type in the Cut Special dialog), Delete Hole works. 2. If a MIDI note extends over the split, the MIDI track will not shift properly. You need a new note-on to occur at the beginning of the region. However I also agree that cutting the two-track mix is the way to go. Back in the days of tape, that's how "radio edits" were made to shorten longer cuts.
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VariousArtist
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Re: Is there still no way to clear empty meassures in the middle of the song?
2016/09/20 15:39:04
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I've been filling the holes with any clip before doing the delete. It's a workaround I deploy on a frequent basis, so I can't wait for the ripple editing to be added. I can't think of a use case for the current process
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mckool
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Re: Is there still no way to clear empty meassures in the middle of the song?
2016/09/20 15:44:47
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Inversely, I would like to be able to add empty measures in the middle of a song for when I am making some arrangement changes. I have had situations where I recorded a large number of tracks and finally realize that I need to either lengthen/shorten an existing section or add a new section entirely.
post edited by mckool - 2016/09/20 16:09:33
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Anderton
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Re: Is there still no way to clear empty meassures in the middle of the song?
2016/09/20 16:16:54
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mckool
Inversely, I would like to be able to add empty measures in the middle of a song for when I am making some arrangement changes.
1. Place the Now time where you want to add the space. 2. Split the tracks at that time. 3. Project > Insert Time/Measures. Same constraint as above regarding MIDI notes.
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Is there still no way to clear empty meassures in the middle of the song?
2016/09/20 16:27:02
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Roughly half the time that doesn't work for me either (or didn't so I've since given up doing it that way). I'm really looking forward to the ripple editing upgrade.
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vladasyn
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Re: Is there still no way to clear empty meassures in the middle of the song?
2016/09/21 00:34:54
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This is a great idea to cut mixed stereo track and not multitrack. I may have to do it this time for lack of better way to do it. But if you think about it- not all parts would align- some would need a small bridge due to key change, may be slight change of first measure of the connecting parts and other things.
I did not remember seeing Delete Special in the past. Not sure I understand how it works. It offers to delete events in the track, markers, meter/key changes, but in what track and in what part of the song? It does not offer to specify that I want to do track 5, between measure 16 and 32. So how would it know what to delete? And then- delete what hole? Would I have to do it one track at a time? Is it based on what selected/ So if I select a track and then select from 16 to 32, then it going to delete that part of that track?
Also I don't understand what you mean by filling the holes with the clips. You mean- if I have 100 tracks and only 5 tracks filled with clips, I will have to fill all 95 tracks with some kind of data to make it "close the whole? Do you mean the clip has to be in that hole, or do you mean that clip should be somewhere in general? I have many tracks that may have 2 measures effect playing one time per song which takes whole track but it only few measures. So I would have to put another clip in to the hole between 16 and 32 to make that part close? Thank you.
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tenfoot
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Re: Is there still no way to clear empty meassures in the middle of the song?
2016/09/21 06:35:58
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☄ Helpfulby williamcopper 2016/09/21 14:39:21
gustabo
Does no one do "Delete Special" and select delete hole?
We all do, but it has been broken for some time in that if there is no data in the selected area on a specific track the delete hole does not work.
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mettelus
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Re: Is there still no way to clear empty meassures in the middle of the song?
2016/09/21 07:56:36
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Please also save your editted project as a new project (just to state the obvious). If you are planning to alter portions, you can strategically bounce the tracks you know you will not alter into one track so you can cut down on track count. If you can get it from 100 tracks to less than 10, edits will be simpler.
Having to put "something somewhere" in that hole is accurate, so having to do that on only 5 tracks vs. 95 tracks is less painful.
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lfm
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Re: Is there still no way to clear empty meassures in the middle of the song?
2016/09/21 10:38:26
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slartabartfast
This is unfortunately a tragedy of the SONAR development process. The ability to remove a chunk of data from a multi-track project and close the gap seamlessly (what other DAW's term ripple editing) is such an essential editing process that the failure to be able to do this as a simple procedure has seriously impacted the utility of the DAW. Prior versions had a delete space that came close, and is now less than fully functional. There are kludges that will allow you to accomplish what you want, and I assume that the programming involved is not trivial, or the problem would never have surfaced. Nevertheless, the priority of fixing this, or more accurately making the original concept work as expected, cannot be underestimated. We all look forward to the success of the Cakewalk team in this effort. In the meantime, we should rejoice that they have let us change the colors of the interface.
It would be an excellent first step towards what's in Cubase and Arranger tracks, and I believe StudioOne scratchpad, or chunks in DigitalPerformer. Split and paste freely över a full project tracks width, including taking tempotracks, automation, splitted clips automation parts. It also has options for how to manage longer midi notes, if to create a new note on other end, or just cut the note. If to do it I would also like to see more options, like if to keep full clips unchanged when splitting, or split right through the spot. The idea with allowing clips to be held together would be that drums, for one, often have some leading strokes before drum part really starts - a crash and a tom and similar. Would really be nice to allow each splitpoint with such options. Don't forget to vote for Arranger tracks in Features and Ideas....
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Is there still no way to clear empty meassures in the middle of the song?
2016/09/21 12:29:29
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As a workaround you could make a bounce of the first section and select/edit whatever you need for the cut to work, then do the same for the second section. Join the two in a new project (or import in the same).
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Is there still no way to clear empty meassures in the middle of the song?
2016/09/21 13:31:22
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Anderton
mckool
Inversely, I would like to be able to add empty measures in the middle of a song for when I am making some arrangement changes.
1. Place the Now time where you want to add the space.
2. Split the tracks at that time.
3. Project > Insert Time/Measures.
Same constraint as above regarding MIDI notes.
Works for me 100% of the time
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williamcopper
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Re: Is there still no way to clear empty meassures in the middle of the song?
2016/09/21 14:21:01
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As far as I can tell, yes, insert time works. BUt if you think about it, if there is no data beyond the set point in any track, what difference does it make whether nothing is actually shifted or is not shifted.
It's the delete that is the problem, and it has caused many many hours of grief. You must be extraordinarily vigilant, or else the project gets in such a mess that it's unusable.
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Is there still no way to clear empty meassures in the middle of the song?
2016/09/21 14:33:00
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Agreed, delete is a mess, which is why I for one am looking forward to the ripple edit feature.
Meanwhile, I only EVER work on a freshly saved new version.
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vladasyn
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Re: Is there still no way to clear empty meassures in the middle of the song?
2016/09/21 23:14:17
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Meanwhile, I only EVER work on a freshly saved new version. I cant have multiple versions. Just the other day I opened wrong version and spent entire weekend working in it, just to find out that it was older version... How do we vote or suggest the features? When do we expect the ripple edit? I remember having this functionality in Logic on Windows in 2000.
post edited by vladasyn - 2016/09/21 23:35:37
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Is there still no way to clear empty meassures in the middle of the song?
2016/09/22 06:13:07
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vladasyn
Meanwhile, I only EVER work on a freshly saved new version.
I cant have multiple versions. Just the other day I opened wrong version and spent entire weekend working in it, just to find out that it was older version...
How do we vote or suggest the features? When do we expect the ripple edit? I remember having this functionality in Logic on Windows in 2000.
Sorry, but you are seriously backing yourself into a corner if you only ever work on one version of your project. I simply do a "save as" with incrementing numbers so it's a no brainer to work out which version I should be working on.
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mettelus
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Re: Is there still no way to clear empty meassures in the middle of the song?
2016/09/22 10:31:23
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+1, definitely reconsider your stance and consider descriptive file names. "Song X Dance Version.cwp" and "Song X Radio Version.cwp" would be understandable years from now.
If you overwrite the one version, what if you want to make subtle tweaks to it later? You will have to relive the pain now in reverse.
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RookOSU
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Re: Is there still no way to clear empty meassures in the middle of the song?
2016/12/09 12:26:05
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Filling the hole with data and then doing delete hole workaround is ok....
But good luck if your project has multiple tempo/meter changes. Cluster of the highest magnitude.
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Anderton
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Re: Is there still no way to clear empty meassures in the middle of the song?
2016/12/09 13:04:56
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Radio edits are done on the master, not the multitrack.
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soens
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Re: Is there still no way to clear empty meassures in the middle of the song?
2016/12/10 04:29:51
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Yes! to editing the final mix. I do this all the time with prerecorded stuff to alter songs to my personal liking. Fun stuff. If you want to do it inside a project: 1. Bounce each track to create one continuous clip per track. 2. Slip drag the begining of each clip to the same begining point (do NOT bounce). 3. Ctrl+A to select all. 4. Drag curser in the time line rule where you want to create hole. 5. Delete Special and select all boxes. Remaining clips should fill the hole. 6. Save edited project as a new one.
post edited by soens - 2016/12/10 05:17:03
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