Is this a good front end choice?

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Mosvalve
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2016/07/29 23:54:47 (permalink)

Is this a good front end choice?

I am reaching to those who use front end outboard gear to record. I currently use my Presonus Digimax D8 pre and My Saffire pro 24 interface as my front end. I am considering purchasing the the Warm audio Tb12 Tone Beast and the Warm audio WA76 as my front end and am asking if this choice is a pretty good one. I'm thinking between what I have now and the Warm gear It will give me more options. I appreciate any feedback,advise.
Thanks
 

BobV 
 
 
 
ASUS Prime Z370-P - Intel Core i7+ 8700K 3.7GHZ 16GB Memory, Intel HD Graphics 630 GPU,  Windows 10 Pro 64bit,  , Sonar Platinum 64bit, Motu 828MK3 Hybrid, Warm Audio TB12 Pre, Warm Audio WA273 Pre, AEA RPQ 500 Pre, Warm Audio WA76 Compressor, Presonus D8 Pre, Tonelux EQ5P 500 Eq, Kush Electra 500 Eq, Lindell PEX 500 Eq, Yamaha 80M monitors with HS10W Sub,  and a bunch of other good stuff. I have a Roland Juno-106 that's looking for a new home. PM me.
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    AT
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    Re: Is this a good front end choice? 2016/07/30 00:14:23 (permalink)
    Bob,
     
    the Warm stuff is outstanding.  The ToneBeast is a very flexible beast for a preamp, while the WA76 is a great take on the 1176.  The WA76 gives that edge to a well compressed sound you have heard on countless records.  Great for rock, rock vocals, bass, etc.  Well worth having although it is a bit of a one-trick pony.  It can work as an everyday compressor, but shines on producing that 1176 sound.  Once you play with it, you'll hear it.
     
    The WA12 is the main part of the ToneBeast - an api-style preamp.  It works fine, even if it doesn't have the shades of color you get from the TB.  Most interface pres, including the Digimax, are transformerless designs.  Transformers (like the cinemaxs in Warm stuff) work great, in my opinion, in digital recording, helping roll off the sharper spikes one gets with the digital formats.  Combined with transformerless designs, it gives you more kinds of sounds.  The WA12 does this, while the TB adds more flavors internally.
     
     

    https://soundcloud.com/a-pleasure-dome
    http://www.bnoir-film.com/  
     
    there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
    24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
    #2
    Mosvalve
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    Re: Is this a good front end choice? 2016/07/30 01:00:03 (permalink)
    AT
    Bob,
     
    the Warm stuff is outstanding.  The ToneBeast is a very flexible beast for a preamp, while the WA76 is a great take on the 1176.  The WA76 gives that edge to a well compressed sound you have heard on countless records.  Great for rock, rock vocals, bass, etc.  Well worth having although it is a bit of a one-trick pony.  It can work as an everyday compressor, but shines on producing that 1176 sound.  Once you play with it, you'll hear it.
     
    The WA12 is the main part of the ToneBeast - an api-style preamp.  It works fine, even if it doesn't have the shades of color you get from the TB.  Most interface pres, including the Digimax, are transformerless designs.  Transformers (like the cinemaxs in Warm stuff) work great, in my opinion, in digital recording, helping roll off the sharper spikes one gets with the digital formats.  Combined with transformerless designs, it gives you more kinds of sounds.  The WA12 does this, while the TB adds more flavors internally.
     
     


    Thanks AT. I don't record screaming guitars or vocals so can I get good results with the WA76 on moderate and mellow material? You said the WA76 a great for rock so I am concerned it wouldn't benefit my material.

    BobV 
     
     
     
    ASUS Prime Z370-P - Intel Core i7+ 8700K 3.7GHZ 16GB Memory, Intel HD Graphics 630 GPU,  Windows 10 Pro 64bit,  , Sonar Platinum 64bit, Motu 828MK3 Hybrid, Warm Audio TB12 Pre, Warm Audio WA273 Pre, AEA RPQ 500 Pre, Warm Audio WA76 Compressor, Presonus D8 Pre, Tonelux EQ5P 500 Eq, Kush Electra 500 Eq, Lindell PEX 500 Eq, Yamaha 80M monitors with HS10W Sub,  and a bunch of other good stuff. I have a Roland Juno-106 that's looking for a new home. PM me.
    #3
    Mosvalve
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    Re: Is this a good front end choice? 2016/07/30 14:07:06 (permalink)
    AT do you know if the HiZ on the TB12 is both a passive and Active DI combined?

    BobV 
     
     
     
    ASUS Prime Z370-P - Intel Core i7+ 8700K 3.7GHZ 16GB Memory, Intel HD Graphics 630 GPU,  Windows 10 Pro 64bit,  , Sonar Platinum 64bit, Motu 828MK3 Hybrid, Warm Audio TB12 Pre, Warm Audio WA273 Pre, AEA RPQ 500 Pre, Warm Audio WA76 Compressor, Presonus D8 Pre, Tonelux EQ5P 500 Eq, Kush Electra 500 Eq, Lindell PEX 500 Eq, Yamaha 80M monitors with HS10W Sub,  and a bunch of other good stuff. I have a Roland Juno-106 that's looking for a new home. PM me.
    #4
    AT
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    Re: Is this a good front end choice? 2016/07/30 15:15:08 (permalink)
    Sure, the WA76 can work in different ways and on different instruments - you can get the sound you hear on some of your favorite acoustic guitar recordings.  It doesn't have to be edgy, but can.  And I use it mostly in an almost on/off mode for the signal passing - that is also what it does good.  I forget how slow and fast the WA76 etc. can open and close, but there is slack in there. It is just it can sound like no other comp in certain situations.  That doesn't mean you have to drive it hard for saturation to distortion, or make it an on/off switch, just that you can.
     
    @
      

    https://soundcloud.com/a-pleasure-dome
    http://www.bnoir-film.com/  
     
    there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
    24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
    #5
    batsbrew
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    Re: Is this a good front end choice? 2016/07/30 20:09:54 (permalink)
    mosvalve,
    i just purchased a RME Babyface pro.
     
    i had a 20% off at musicians friend, that worked towards RME products,
    got it for $600,
    for me that was a no brainer.
     
    the babyface pro,
    even running on my old winXP setup,
    is super sweet.
     
    willupdate my pc soon, to match the interface.
     
    2 xlr inputs and 2 analog line inputs is all it has on the front,
    but can handle much more with adat.

    Bats Brew music Streaming
    Bats Brew albums:
    "Trouble"
    "Stay"
    "The Time is Magic"
    --
    Sonar 6 PE>Bandlab Cakewalk>Studio One 3.5>RME BFP>i7-7700 3.6GHz>MSI B250M>G.Skill Ripjaws 4 series 16GB>Samsung 960 EVO m.2ssd>W 10 Pro
     
    #6
    Mosvalve
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    Re: Is this a good front end choice? 2016/07/30 20:24:17 (permalink)
    batsbrew
    mosvalve,
    i just purchased a RME Babyface pro.
     
    i had a 20% off at musicians friend, that worked towards RME products,
    got it for $600,
    for me that was a no brainer.
     
    the babyface pro,
    even running on my old winXP setup,
    is super sweet.
     
    willupdate my pc soon, to match the interface.
     
    2 xlr inputs and 2 analog line inputs is all it has on the front,
    but can handle much more with adat.


    I was undecided if I should just upgrade my interface or add a preamp and or compressor. I've been wanting to setup a recording chain and the Warm Audio TB12 and WA76 seemed the best bang for the buck. I may upgrade my interface eventually but am still deciding what features I/O I need and want. For the price of a higher leval interface I have two pieces of gear. I guess it only makes sense to eventually purchase a better interface. When Budget permits.

    BobV 
     
     
     
    ASUS Prime Z370-P - Intel Core i7+ 8700K 3.7GHZ 16GB Memory, Intel HD Graphics 630 GPU,  Windows 10 Pro 64bit,  , Sonar Platinum 64bit, Motu 828MK3 Hybrid, Warm Audio TB12 Pre, Warm Audio WA273 Pre, AEA RPQ 500 Pre, Warm Audio WA76 Compressor, Presonus D8 Pre, Tonelux EQ5P 500 Eq, Kush Electra 500 Eq, Lindell PEX 500 Eq, Yamaha 80M monitors with HS10W Sub,  and a bunch of other good stuff. I have a Roland Juno-106 that's looking for a new home. PM me.
    #7
    mettelus
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    Re: Is this a good front end choice? 2016/07/31 13:19:10 (permalink)
    I am not sure if I am catching the OP correctly, but pretty much anything can be done to a clean signal once it is in the box. "Baking" a signal makes ITB edits significantly more difficult in some cases, but is ultimately a matter of preference to work flow.
     
    Does your MixControl have compressor/EQ? I realized I need to ask that now as I got one of the last "Saffire PRO 24 DSPs" and finally realized the "Saffire PRO 24" is actually a different beast. *If* you have the DSP model (also has VRM), you can bake in the compressor/EQ in MixControl. I do actually use that front end compressor religiously (set more for limiting) and is about the only processor before the computer that is "required."

    ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC), i7-8700k, 16GB RAM, GTX-1070Ti, Win 10 Pro, Saffire PRO 24 DSP, A-300 PRO, plus numerous gadgets and gizmos that make or manipulate sound in some way.
    #8
    batsbrew
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    Re: Is this a good front end choice? 2016/07/31 14:40:13 (permalink)
    Mosvalve
    batsbrew
    mosvalve,
    i just purchased a RME Babyface pro.
     
    i had a 20% off at musicians friend, that worked towards RME products,
    got it for $600,
    for me that was a no brainer.
     
    the babyface pro,
    even running on my old winXP setup,
    is super sweet.
     
    willupdate my pc soon, to match the interface.
     
    2 xlr inputs and 2 analog line inputs is all it has on the front,
    but can handle much more with adat.


    I was undecided if I should just upgrade my interface or add a preamp and or compressor. I've been wanting to setup a recording chain and the Warm Audio TB12 and WA76 seemed the best bang for the buck. I may upgrade my interface eventually but am still deciding what features I/O I need and want. For the price of a higher leval interface I have two pieces of gear. I guess it only makes sense to eventually purchase a better interface. When Budget permits.




    hey bob,
    the rme purchase, for me, was to upgrade my convertors.
    that, and the additional things that came with the rme (killer preamps, midi in/out, ultimate routing to the analog/xlr/adat, totalmix control, practically zero latency, on board dsp that can be printed or not, really nice eq section printed or not, etc)
     
    i can still run my class a tube mic preamp into the rme...
    setting up gain structure is a snap, and easily selects between different input levels)

    Bats Brew music Streaming
    Bats Brew albums:
    "Trouble"
    "Stay"
    "The Time is Magic"
    --
    Sonar 6 PE>Bandlab Cakewalk>Studio One 3.5>RME BFP>i7-7700 3.6GHz>MSI B250M>G.Skill Ripjaws 4 series 16GB>Samsung 960 EVO m.2ssd>W 10 Pro
     
    #9
    Mosvalve
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    Re: Is this a good front end choice? 2016/07/31 14:42:03 (permalink)
    mettelus
    I am not sure if I am catching the OP correctly, but pretty much anything can be done to a clean signal once it is in the box. "Baking" a signal makes ITB edits significantly more difficult in some cases, but is ultimately a matter of preference to work flow.
     
    Does your MixControl have compressor/EQ? I realized I need to ask that now as I got one of the last "Saffire PRO 24 DSPs" and finally realized the "Saffire PRO 24" is actually a different beast. *If* you have the DSP model (also has VRM), you can bake in the compressor/EQ in MixControl. I do actually use that front end compressor religiously (set more for limiting) and is about the only processor before the computer that is "required."


    Mettelus, My goal is not to edit much ITB. I like creating and printing my sound. Of course whatever is called for the tune. I want the best front end I can afford to capture an instrument. I have used Aux's with Plugins on the input track and printed that way and It works pretty well but I wanted a better preamp and figured I'd add the compressor while I'm at it.
    I'm glad hear you use the WA76 can you give me some tips on using it? I'm waiting for the arrival of the pre and comp.

    BobV 
     
     
     
    ASUS Prime Z370-P - Intel Core i7+ 8700K 3.7GHZ 16GB Memory, Intel HD Graphics 630 GPU,  Windows 10 Pro 64bit,  , Sonar Platinum 64bit, Motu 828MK3 Hybrid, Warm Audio TB12 Pre, Warm Audio WA273 Pre, AEA RPQ 500 Pre, Warm Audio WA76 Compressor, Presonus D8 Pre, Tonelux EQ5P 500 Eq, Kush Electra 500 Eq, Lindell PEX 500 Eq, Yamaha 80M monitors with HS10W Sub,  and a bunch of other good stuff. I have a Roland Juno-106 that's looking for a new home. PM me.
    #10
    AT
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    Re: Is this a good front end choice? 2016/07/31 20:28:02 (permalink)
    The better the front end, the better the capture, the less you have to make fixes (or even decisions) in the mix.  and it is a feedback loop - the better you learn to use your better front end the more the sounds captured sound like what you need in the mix.  It makes everything that follows easier.
     
    better converters are gravy on the cake.  Again, everything works together.  Without a nice room, you'll record flaws and mix them into your work.  Without a nice pre or comp it is harder to work the sound at mix time.  Without nice conversion it is hard to capture exactly what you hear, or hear exactly what you captured.  Without good speakers, you don't hear as well as you should, and make bad decisions. 
     
    With better equipment one can work quicker and more confidence.  I've use a WA12 and WA76 to DI bass most of the time.  Works great -  plug n' play 90% of the time.  Minor adjustments for levels and it sounds like a bass recording. 
     
    @

    https://soundcloud.com/a-pleasure-dome
    http://www.bnoir-film.com/  
     
    there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
    24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
    #11
    Mosvalve
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    Re: Is this a good front end choice? 2016/07/31 21:54:05 (permalink)
    AT
    The better the front end, the better the capture, the less you have to make fixes (or even decisions) in the mix.  and it is a feedback loop - the better you learn to use your better front end the more the sounds captured sound like what you need in the mix.  It makes everything that follows easier.
     
    better converters are gravy on the cake.  Again, everything works together.  Without a nice room, you'll record flaws and mix them into your work.  Without a nice pre or comp it is harder to work the sound at mix time.  Without nice conversion it is hard to capture exactly what you hear, or hear exactly what you captured.  Without good speakers, you don't hear as well as you should, and make bad decisions. 
     
    With better equipment one can work quicker and more confidence.  I've use a WA12 and WA76 to DI bass most of the time.  Works great -  plug n' play 90% of the time.  Minor adjustments for levels and it sounds like a bass recording. 
     
    @


    That's what I'm shooting for, a better front end. I am taking more time recording now. I used to rush to get the tracks done and that's a bad thing. The tracks never sound as good as they should. This is one reason I am putting together a decent front end. It's all about capture,  not try and fix it later which your lucky if you can. After the dust settles from the Warm TB12 and WA76 purchase I will look into better converters as you mentioned. I looked at the RME and others and I know you have to spend a little more for better quality. a new interface is my next venture. Then I may spring for the Warm EQP WA  which is my Waves go to plugin.

    BobV 
     
     
     
    ASUS Prime Z370-P - Intel Core i7+ 8700K 3.7GHZ 16GB Memory, Intel HD Graphics 630 GPU,  Windows 10 Pro 64bit,  , Sonar Platinum 64bit, Motu 828MK3 Hybrid, Warm Audio TB12 Pre, Warm Audio WA273 Pre, AEA RPQ 500 Pre, Warm Audio WA76 Compressor, Presonus D8 Pre, Tonelux EQ5P 500 Eq, Kush Electra 500 Eq, Lindell PEX 500 Eq, Yamaha 80M monitors with HS10W Sub,  and a bunch of other good stuff. I have a Roland Juno-106 that's looking for a new home. PM me.
    #12
    Cactus Music
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    Re: Is this a good front end choice? 2016/08/01 10:45:33 (permalink)
    +100 to capturing a great sound should be your goal. Not recording a so, so sound and manipulating it later. Everytime you mess with digital audio you trash it in a tiny way. 
    Because a lot of us started life that way possibly we do not wish to change. But to me a computer is just a multi track tape machine. 
    I strive to have each input sounding it's best be that vocals, guitar or bass. Once you achive this you can get a lot of recording done without fuss. 90% of my tracks go untouched once the performance has been nailed down. 
     
    The pre amps on my Scarlett are sub par. So. 
    I bought a Joe Meek 3Q to solve the issue.  
    I know it's probably not as spicy as many other choices, but it was the most affordable at the time. When I have the cash I was looking to add the Warm audio stuff too. I sort of need 2 good front ends so I don't have to change settings when swapping out. The good part is the Joe Meek has both the Mike and instrument inputs so it's just a matter of pushing a button and changing the settings. 
    I've been reading good things about the Tascam UH 7000 so I might go that route next time. Nice if your interface has great input.. seems you can't expect that in a $200 one. 

    Johnny V  
    Cakelab  
    Focusrite 6i61st - Tascam us1641. 
    3 Desktops and 3 Laptops W7 and W10
     http://www.cactusmusic.ca/
     
     
    #13
    Mosvalve
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    Re: Is this a good front end choice? 2016/08/04 20:26:13 (permalink)
    I received my WA76 Compressor and TB12 Preamp today. Just finished racking them. They look good. It's time for some experimenting fun.

    BobV 
     
     
     
    ASUS Prime Z370-P - Intel Core i7+ 8700K 3.7GHZ 16GB Memory, Intel HD Graphics 630 GPU,  Windows 10 Pro 64bit,  , Sonar Platinum 64bit, Motu 828MK3 Hybrid, Warm Audio TB12 Pre, Warm Audio WA273 Pre, AEA RPQ 500 Pre, Warm Audio WA76 Compressor, Presonus D8 Pre, Tonelux EQ5P 500 Eq, Kush Electra 500 Eq, Lindell PEX 500 Eq, Yamaha 80M monitors with HS10W Sub,  and a bunch of other good stuff. I have a Roland Juno-106 that's looking for a new home. PM me.
    #14
    AT
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    Re: Is this a good front end choice? 2016/08/05 00:44:26 (permalink)
    Tear it up.

    https://soundcloud.com/a-pleasure-dome
    http://www.bnoir-film.com/  
     
    there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
    24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
    #15
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