Helpful ReplyIs this a normal CPU usage for idle Cakewalk??

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bluebeat1313
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2018/11/06 22:42:30 (permalink)

Is this a normal CPU usage for idle Cakewalk??

Hi fellows.
Can somebody please shine a light on this for me.
 
I have 75% CPU usage (task by Cakewalk when it is idle (no playing or recording) And rising to 90%+ when playing/recording.
i7-7600 / 16gb Ram. If I leave it idle for several minutes, CPU usage drops to 5-10%
Is this normal behavior?
I am asking because when CPU usage rises to certain levels audio gets shuttered.
 
I have roughly 25 tracks going. I have many take lanes in some, but vast majority of these are muted.
Using  Izotope Neutron and Nectar VSTs, no other plugins. 
 
Please let me know.
Thank you.
 
 
#1
rebel007
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Re: Is this a normal CPU usage for idle Cakewalk?? 2018/11/07 06:52:25 (permalink)
Is this after you've been using Sonar? You say it drops back to 5% or so after a few minutes, so I'm assuming you've been using Sonar for something previous to the high CPU usage. Or is it when you first open Sonar? Just a bit more info on your usage/workflow.

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#2
azslow3
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Re: Is this a normal CPU usage for idle Cakewalk?? 2018/11/07 07:07:43 (permalink)
I would also explicitly check the frequency in the task manager, so check that power saving options are not on.
 

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#3
chuckebaby
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Re: Is this a normal CPU usage for idle Cakewalk?? 2018/11/07 13:17:23 (permalink)
The real question to ask here is, How many instances of Izotope Neutron and Nectar are you using ?
Those plug ins can suck up CPU's. If your using them on all 24 tracks, you might want to rethink and consolidate some of your tracks to buses (or freeze some tracks).
 
What are your latency setting for your soundcard set at ?

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#4
bluebeat1313
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Re: Is this a normal CPU usage for idle Cakewalk?? 2018/11/07 13:38:24 (permalink)
rebel007, azslow3.
Thank you for suggestions!
I went to check and power plan was for "balanced" I changed that.
But that did not help.
 
What did... 
As I mentioned I had about half tracks muted.
Muted tracks had Izotope VST, as soon as I turned them off, (VSTs on these tracks) CPU usage went down 20-25%
I thought that muting the track, disables the VST that is on it until you un-mute it?
Silly me?
 
So after this homework, the right title for the post should have been something like:
Is there a way to automatically disable VST when tracks are muted? 
 
I would greatly appreciate if somebody can comment on it.
 
Thank you.
 
 
 
 
 
 
#5
bluebeat1313
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Re: Is this a normal CPU usage for idle Cakewalk?? 2018/11/07 13:40:39 (permalink)
chuckebaby  
Thank you for post! 
 
:) was just writing this (see above), when your message came. 
 
#6
cyberzip
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Re: Is this a normal CPU usage for idle Cakewalk?? 2018/11/07 15:11:48 (permalink)
You are right, muting does not disable or ("unload") the VST(i). And if you have a lot of VST/VSTi:s in your project, then Sonar will consume CPU even when idle. I suppose this is to "be ready" for what you will do next. But you can start and stop the audio engine itself to stop Sonar from draining the CPU.
 
I have assigned the keyboard shortcut ALT+X to "Run/stop audio engine", so I often use that shortcut to stop Sonar from using CPU after I have stopped the track.
 
I agree, this is not really ideal... maybe there could be some logic that disables/unloads VST(i):s when there is no input or output? (Or is there some logic like this already? I remember reading something about it...)
#7
bluebeat1313
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Re: Is this a normal CPU usage for idle Cakewalk?? 2018/11/07 15:32:51 (permalink)
cyberzip, Thank you!
 
Seems like a valid item for "feature request".
 
To have an option to: "Disable VST on muted tracks" automatically  (and enable them automatically when un-muted) to stop those VSTs from gluttony.
Heading there now :)
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mettelus
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Re: Is this a normal CPU usage for idle Cakewalk?? 2018/11/07 15:40:40 (permalink)
Anything that can be done while the transport is running will consume CPU, since you can unmute a track with the transport running and they come online (because they are being processed even while muted).
 
Archiving a track will remove it from CPU overhead, and may be a better alternative to muting for you (but the transport needs to be stopped).
 
I forget now, but seem to recall that disabling an FX does not unload the CPU, but disabling the entire FX bin does. Freezing and/or bumping up audio buffers will also help with the strain on the CPU - those plugins you mention are for mixing, not tracking - during post-production, bumping up buffers will help prevent the heavier-handed plugins from crippling the machine.

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57Gregy
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Re: Is this a normal CPU usage for idle Cakewalk?? 2018/11/07 15:40:55 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby tlw 2018/11/12 16:30:05
Freezing a VSTi track unloads the synth.

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#10
bitflipper
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Re: Is this a normal CPU usage for idle Cakewalk?? 2018/11/07 15:49:55 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby jimfogle 2018/11/07 18:20:02
That feature will not, or I should say, cannot be implemented. Doing so would mean that it would be impossible to unmute a track during playback without dropouts or synchronization problems. Most users would find that unacceptable, since muting and un-muting tracks during playback is a very common practice.
 
That is the main difference between an archived track versus a muted track, and why both are offered. Archiving a track takes it out of the process completely, whereas muting just disables the track's output. In this way it is analogous to a physical mixer: pushing the mute button on a mixer channel does nothing other than ground that channels' output. The digital equivalent is, after processing the signal normally, ultimately setting the channel's output to zero.


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#11
bluebeat1313
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Re: Is this a normal CPU usage for idle Cakewalk?? 2018/11/07 15:55:03 (permalink)
Some sort of option would be nice to have...  maybe to bulk disabling all VSTs on muted tracks in one click? That's of course if someone needs it. Maybe script of some kind...
Still a feature request :)
 
57Gregy, not sure if VST effects will act as VSTi but it is still an extra step for each track. But thank you for info, actually for now, if it works for VST effects same way as VSTi it is probably the best option!
 
I was just naive thinking muting will idle VST from eating CPU. 
#12
bluebeat1313
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Re: Is this a normal CPU usage for idle Cakewalk?? 2018/11/07 15:59:03 (permalink)
Bitflipper thanks.
I understand what you are saying... 
Still it would be nice to have an option of bulk disabling/enabling VST items from mute/unmute states. 
#13
scook
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Re: Is this a normal CPU usage for idle Cakewalk?? 2018/11/07 16:07:14 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby mettelus 2018/11/07 16:37:05
Archiving is one way of bypassing FX and synths.
 
Effects may also be bypassed by
  • Individually by Host bypass - The VST3 spec provides for a host bypass. Most VST3 plug-ins implement it and there is a button on the left side of the VST standard header to toggle host bypass. Host bypass is often available for automation. Region FX have a bypass options on the Region FX menu. Some VST2 provide a way to turn of the plug-in but there is no standard for what the plug-in does while turned off.
  • Per-track by bypass FX Rack/Turn off PC Rack - these will bypass all plug-ins in the FX Rack or ProChannel. This is what archive and freeze do. FX Racks have bypass options in their context menu. The PC on/off button is the Prochannel bypass.
  • Entire project by global FX Bypass - this is the FX button in the Mix Module, keyboard shortcut E. This bypasses all FX Racks and ProChannels.
Synths are bypassed by disconnecting them in the synth rack. This is the process used by archive and freeze.
 
 
 
#14
bluebeat1313
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Re: Is this a normal CPU usage for idle Cakewalk?? 2018/11/07 16:12:34 (permalink)
Scook, thank you for detailed explanation!
 
This: "Entire project by global FX Bypass - this is the FX button in the Mix Module, keyboard shortcut E. This bypasses all FX Racks and ProChannels."
 
It would be nice to have this global bypass for muted tracks specifically :)
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azslow3
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Re: Is this a normal CPU usage for idle Cakewalk?? 2018/11/07 20:05:23 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Tim Flannagin 2018/11/15 00:07:45
bitflipper
That feature will not, or I should say, cannot be implemented. Doing so would mean that it would be impossible to unmute a track during playback without dropouts or synchronization problems. Most users would find that unacceptable, since muting and un-muting tracks during playback is a very common practice.

Well, in Sonar/CbB that is not possible. But I do not exclude it will be implemented, if CbB will ever get any engine development (Sonar had no such development like 10 yeas long...). And such feature will take an hour to implement. Way simpler than implementing anticipative engine and can somehow compensate the age of current one.
 
There are 3 different plug-in states:
1. not loaded (no resource consumed)
2. loaded but not working (RAM is used, CPU is not used)
3. loaded and working (RAM is used, CPU is used).
 
With archiving you can get (1). With audio engine stopped you can achieve (2). Sonar keep everything in (3) otherwise. But what prevents switching to (2) when the result is muted? Nothing. Just current implementation in Sonar.
 
Note that:
* "switching" between (2) and (3) takes no extra CPU nor time, you just call "process" method on every buffer when required and no longer call it when that is useless.
* Sonar already distinguish between "automated mute" and "mute". Sure, for automated mute that is a bad idea.
* related to the previous point and "leaking" at other places when implemented, that feature introduce some plug-in specific trouble. Unexpected tails. Many plug-ins "remember" a part of previously processed sound and when asked to start again (un-mute), they will use wrong information. Not a big deal during normal audition. But not acceptable for automations and rendering.
 
You can guess at least one DAW which can save CPU on muted tracks, as default setting

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bluebeat1313
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Re: Is this a normal CPU usage for idle Cakewalk?? 2018/11/07 21:08:11 (permalink)
Good read.
Thank you!
#17
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Re: Is this a normal CPU usage for idle Cakewalk?? 2018/11/08 02:25:58 (permalink)
Excellent read.  I learned a lot.  Thanks for all the informative answers!

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#18
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Re: Is this a normal CPU usage for idle Cakewalk?? 2018/11/12 09:57:29 (permalink)
Right-click in th FX-bin and disable vsts's on that track only.
I'm allways using this approach when there is (too) high CPU load.
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