The Maillard Reaction
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Is this a test?
"How does it work? The various layers both absorb and diffuse the sound waves hitting them, so progressively less of the original source acoustic energy passes through each layer. This reduces the amount of energy hitting un-treated walls and other surfaces so there is less of the original source reflected back as unwanted room ambience to the mic. The Reflexion Filter also helps prevent any reflected sound reaching the back and sides of the mic. Its shape and size have been carefully tested to maximize absorption while keeping ‘coloration’ down to only around 1dB, and leaving the microphone’s polar pattern unaffected." If you were testing a product's ability to control wall reflections that might come back towards the mic would you highlight a test in a room that doesn't have any reflections? If you were going to promote a product as being capable of absorbing sound energy would you publish a graph that showed that absorption is absolutely minimal? Please note that the graph doesn't relate to the test setup shown in the photo... they had to put the speaker on the other side of the "filter" to gather the data for that graph. There are lots of well understood absorption products used in gobos... and none of them work well unless they are very thick... that's why you see that the product in question doesn't actually absorb anything. A fact which is clearly documented in the graph. I wish they zoomed in on the vertical scale... but they didn't. I guess they hope that people will look at it and say "see, no coloration" and it will never occur to them that what it really says is "see, no absorption" Furthermore; (and this gets tricky if you don't enjoy acoustics) the conclusion drawn from the graph... that the filter doesn't "color" the sound is only applicable in an anechoic chamber. Once you put that absorber in a real room with reflections... the reflections that will be absorbed the "greatest" will be those that arrive at their quarter wave peaks. The "coloration", if you will, that any absorptive filter provides is the result of it's placement. If you test in a anechoic chamber there are no reflections... so it seems like everything gets absorbed evenly. If you test in a room with heavy reflections than you have some chance to absorb some of those reflections.... however the absorber, like all absorbers, can only absorb energy that is present at the filter. So anything that hits the filter at it's quarter wave peak will be absorbed more so than all the other sound waves that travel through it. Thus, coloration will not occur until the filter is placed in a real room. If you want to de emphasize the idea that filters create frequency shifting results... you run a test in a room without any reflective energy. To make a long story short. In my opinion, if you feel something like the Reflexion is beneficial to your setup... and I acknowledge that it may well be... you might want to try a heavy wool sweater some day. It may actually work even better. all the best, mike
post edited by mike_mccue - 2011/09/02 08:51:31
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Karyn
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Re:Is this a test?
2011/09/02 09:02:48
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Mike, the way I read that graph and the accompnying text is that the photo is precisely how it was produced. Red line - speaker + mic Yellow line - speaker + mic + Reflexion filter. As you know, the cardioid pattern of mics is dependant on phase cancelation between front and back/sides, hence the bass boost you get when close micing. The test is intended to show that the filter does not affect the response of the mic. What is missing is a polar map of pickup level taken as the mic/filter is rotated, using an omni pattern mic. This would give you a direct absorbtion graph showing you just how much real life reflections would be attenuated.
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Jonbouy
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Re:Is this a test?
2011/09/02 09:11:48
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I'd like to try one of the hoods that are fitted to public phone booths here. They always sound OK when you use them, they're made of punctured sheet filled with foam. They come in cheaper than these types of filters too. This kind of thing. http://www.workplace-prod...industrial-phone-hood/ I'd like to get hold of a BT original fit one though they are vandal proof even. I feel sure some simple experimentation would yeild better results than these reflexion filters.
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Is this a test?
2011/09/02 09:21:47
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Hi Karyn, That graph appears to be the results of an absorption test. So, if mic is on the same side of the sound source it's some other sort of test. Perhaps that was the reflection part of the Reflexion test. I was giving the info the benefit of the doubt; If the graph really represents the measurement of reflection absorption in an anechoic chamber... well that's just silly... there should be no reflections to deal with. It would be a great place to learn how the aluminum reflected what ever it reflects. Of course the 1/4 wave issue still occurs... so placement of the filter in relationship to the mic is important if consistency is to be expected between what might be observed in the chamber and eventually experienced in the end users room. So, perhaps the graph is a way to illustrate that, in the absence of any room reflections or any other disturbances that the Reflexion filter itself doesn't create reflections that "color" the sound. If that's the case I find it easy to believe that it doesn't do anything like that... I wouldn't expect any thin aluminum reflector to do much reflecting of sound... it will only happen with the highest frequencies... and it does sort of seem like the yellow line gets a bit hotter than the red line in the upper mid range. You may also find that most absorption tests are made with assemblies that assure the the test tones emanating from the sound source arrive at the absorber at their 1/4 wave peaks. The setup in the photo doesn't appear to be meant for that. There is another analysis soon to be available.. as soon as the document is translated from German. :-) I've been waiting 9 months... or at least that's when I first noticed that the document publication was pending. The unit is clearly described as meant to absorb reflections from walls... I'd like to see how well it compares to a thick wool sweater in that anechoic chamber. best regards, mike edited to clarify.
post edited by mike_mccue - 2011/09/02 09:50:18
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Karyn
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Re:Is this a test?
2011/09/02 09:40:31
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Mike, I don't think the test pictured or graphed is intended to show the amount of refection absorbtion. I think it's intended to show that the filter does not affect the sound of the mic.
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Is this a test?
2011/09/02 09:42:24
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Upon *reflection* I am inclined to agree with you. I guess I answered my question too... I don't think it was really a test of anything. :-)
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UbiquitousBubba
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Re:Is this a test?
2011/09/02 10:54:41
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I find that when I'm being questioned in a room like that one, it's usually smaller and everybody looks very serious. The jackets are a bit constricting as well.
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yorolpal
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Re:Is this a test?
2011/09/02 12:30:08
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bapu
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Re:Is this a test?
2011/09/02 13:55:55
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I failed that test for sure.
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bapu
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Re:Is this a test?
2011/09/02 13:56:56
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bapu I failed that test for sure. We were supposed to count the jellybeans in the jar, right?
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UbiquitousBubba
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Re:Is this a test?
2011/09/02 14:01:55
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My jar had jellyfish. My throat is still burning.
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Tap
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Re:Is this a test?
2011/09/02 14:07:09
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Yes Mike, this was only a Test, Had this been a real Emergency you would have been instructed to eat becan!
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UbiquitousBubba
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Re:Is this a test?
2011/09/02 14:09:12
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I did anyway, just to be sure. ...for the sake of realism.
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Is this a test?
2011/09/02 14:15:27
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Hi olpal, My friend that uses the one I gave him uses it with a AEA R84 ribbon mic (figure 8) in a small booth. He says he really likes it. It is no secret to him that I think small booths are too be avoided at all costs. :-) I've been recording vocals with an omni for the past couple weeks at my place. When I considered the absorptive potential of the SE filter, I considered that I already have gobos... I can use one of my 8" or 16" deep 8lb/cu.ft. rockwool gobo racks if I feel the need for isolating a vocal take from a wall reflection. Seems like my gobos cost a fraction of the filters price too. Did you ever try using them ears with a big ol wool sweater hanging back there? You can even color code the sweaters for different curves. :-) I think someone should start selling displaycoats™.... so that small room producers can cover the display monitors with shag fabric to prevent the devastating effects of early reflections during vocal (or mandolin) takes. It will look a lot like a bathroom throw rug... but it will be different. :-) Love the Avatar.... let me guess... the nineties? ;-) best regards, mike
post edited by mike_mccue - 2011/09/02 14:16:33
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yorolpal
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Re:Is this a test?
2011/09/02 16:03:03
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+1 for rockwool gobos...we are laden with them too. And you are way off on the decade;-)
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craigb
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Is this a teste?
2011/09/03 03:02:09
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Are you having a ball Mike? (or two?)
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Is this a test?
2011/09/03 09:04:35
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I am not sure... ? Oh... now I get it. :-)
post edited by mike_mccue - 2011/09/03 09:11:19
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bapu
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Re:Is this a estee lauder?
2011/09/03 11:21:00
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craigb Are you having a ball Mike? (or two?) Bapu covers it up.
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