VariousArtist
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Issue: moving overlapping clips SPLITS CLIPS!!
When I move an overlapped clip, part of the other clip moves with it. Here are the steps to reproduce: - Overlap two audio clips. - Select just one of the clips and move it. - NOTE: you may need to overlap with crossfade on and move "into" the crossfade a bit The moved clip also takes with it the part that overlaps from the other clip. Essentially it has sliced the other clip at the selection point. See this video here: https://youtu.be/UO8yHwxj2g8 Is this a feature or even desirable? And can it be turned off? I have tried selecting different points when moving but I don't see it being different than how I operated before (I had originally encountered this in 2017.01, but now I've rolled back I am seeing it in 2016.12 so maybe this has been around for a while; but I've never experienced it before so I am perplexed) Anyone else notice this issue? I'm guessing it should be easy to reproduce. UPDATE! See this post http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3557425
post edited by VariousArtist - 2017/02/07 12:54:29
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VariousArtist
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Re: 27.01 issue: moving overlapping clips creates "shards"
2017/02/06 12:41:30
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On a separate note, after rolling back I opened my project and....all the fade points have been reset to some arbitrarily (way too) early point. So if I did a short fade at the end of a clip, it has turned it into a long fade.
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jpetersen
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Re: 27.01 issue: moving overlapping clips creates "shards"
2017/02/06 12:57:52
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The Shards (aka Slivers) problem has been around for some versions now.
Annoying that it hasn't been fixed yet.
Also annoying is that fade points don't return to their original position.
Makes Auto Crossfade cost more time than it saves.
Reaper does this elegantly.
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VariousArtist
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Re: 27.01 issue: moving overlapping clips creates "shards"
2017/02/06 13:08:01
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True jpeterson but what I am describing is a new issue. I have removed the word "shards" from my title to avoid confusion
post edited by VariousArtist - 2017/02/06 14:51:37
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Anderton
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Re: 27.01 issue: moving overlapping clips SPLITS CLIPS!!
2017/02/06 19:59:18
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☄ Helpfulby VariousArtist 2017/02/07 12:33:29
VariousArtist
Here are the steps to reproduce:
- Overlap two audio clips.
- Select just one of the clips and move it.
The moved clip also takes with it the part that overlaps from the other clip. Essentially it has sliced the other clip at the selection point.
I've tried this multiple times with a variety of file types and can't reproduce. Can you provide more details? Are Take Lanes involved? You are correct that "shards" was fixed, it was due to the Now time backing up upon stop/record, which doesn't happen any more. I don't quite understand the fade issue, I have yet to open a project where the fades weren't where I left them. The only time I get in trouble with fades is I forget that multiple clips were selected, so then I change one fade and the fade changes on all of them.
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SMcNamara
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Re: 27.01 issue: moving overlapping clips SPLITS CLIPS!!
2017/02/06 20:41:20
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Anderton
I've tried this multiple times with a variety of file types and can't reproduce. Can you provide more details? Are Take Lanes involved?
Same here, Craig; not reproducible with split clips, and no problem with fades (though I haven't had to roll back ever since the frequent update program started).
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Anderton
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Re: 27.01 issue: moving overlapping clips SPLITS CLIPS!!
2017/02/06 21:00:40
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I do know that if you select part of a clip and move it by the handle, it will split off as a separate element. But that's always been a great feature for me. To see what I mean:
Take a clip that's, oh, 8 measures long.
Drag in the timeline to select measure 5.
Click on the handle in measure 5 and move it (even very, very slightly will do the job).
It will break off as its own clip.
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ampfixer
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Re: 27.01 issue: moving overlapping clips SPLITS CLIPS!!
2017/02/06 21:36:20
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☄ Helpfulby VariousArtist 2017/02/07 12:33:09
I'm curious if those with an issue and those that are good have their recording preferences set the same. There are a lot of options including what happens with overlapping clips. Perhaps the issue only occurs under certain preference settings.
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Anderton
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Re: 27.01 issue: moving overlapping clips SPLITS CLIPS!!
2017/02/06 21:45:02
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Yes, that's certainly true and exactly why more details are needed.
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VariousArtist
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Re: 27.01 issue: moving overlapping clips SPLITS CLIPS!!
2017/02/07 09:00:15
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Thanks for checking Craig. I may try updating again later to compare before and after, but for the moment I wanted to keep my momentum going productivity-wise. I usually keep the recording button in sound-on-sound mode. And I rarely, if ever, use take lanes.
post edited by VariousArtist - 2017/02/07 12:32:53
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VariousArtist
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Re: 27.01 issue: moving overlapping clips SPLITS CLIPS!!
2017/02/07 12:18:59
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Hello Craig, I have created a video to show the issue. https://youtu.be/UO8yHwxj2g8 Notice that I am demonstrating this in the rolled back version of 2016.12, so I guess I was mistaken about it being an issue with the update to 2017.01. It is just such a strange coincidence that I never experienced this before the update and it was fine again when I rolled back; until I rebooted my machine. I have to believe I jumped to the wrong conclusion on it being an update issue -- but I still think the behavior is strange and I want to disable it. I have updated the title accordingly.
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VariousArtist
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Re: 27.01 issue: moving overlapping clips SPLITS CLIPS!!
2017/02/07 12:52:00
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Anderton
Yes, that's certainly true and exactly why more details are needed.
I made a video (see OP or previous post above) which shows the issue. I did manage to reproduce it in 2016.12. So I updated back to 2017.01 and you want to know what's crazy? I can no longer reproduce it. I am using the same simple project in that video and now I can't make it happen. This confirms my suspicions that the world has gone mad -- or I have :P But seriously, what you see in the video is what I encountered for the first time ever after I updated to 2017.01. Then when I rolled back I was able to reproduce it. Now I've updated again and I can't reproduce it! I'm a veteran software engineer, and this makes no sense, lol!
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mettelus
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Re: 27.01 issue: moving overlapping clips SPLITS CLIPS!!
2017/02/07 12:58:36
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There is a point in that video where you seemed to move both clips as a unit before a fade and then the split issue. Not sure if that step needs to be done to reproduce.
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VariousArtist
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Re: 27.01 issue: moving overlapping clips SPLITS CLIPS!!
2017/02/07 13:08:31
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mettelus
There is a point in that video where you seemed to move both clips as a unit before a fade and then the split issue. Not sure if that step needs to be done to reproduce.
I keep trying and have spent 5 minutes quickly moving clips this way, that way, crossfading changes, fade changes, back and forth, and now I can't reproduce it. That moment in the video where both clips move as a unit occurred without me wanting or trying to do it. It's almost like something weird was going on "lanes wise" (under the covers). The thing is I couldn't avoid this issue before so I was sure that someone else would see it quickly and easily. Because everything I was doing in that video was happening all the time. Now it's happening none of the time. I do a *lot* of clip movement in my work so this really came out of the blue. There has to be a scientific reason but it's not what I had thought originally (i.e. the update).
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chuckebaby
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Re: 27.01 issue: moving overlapping clips SPLITS CLIPS!!
2017/02/07 14:50:46
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your grabbing the clips in the wrong spot mate.
Try doing the exact same thing you are doing but be aware of the clip line (at the top of the clip)
Only grab it (to move) by clicking on the right side of that line. Sonar is thinking you want to grab the selected part underneath.
I watched your video and can see where you are grabbing it from. be aware of that clip separation line on the clips header.
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VariousArtist
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Re: 27.01 issue: moving overlapping clips SPLITS CLIPS!!
2017/02/07 15:02:08
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chuckebaby
your grabbing the clips in the wrong spot mate.
Try doing the exact same thing you are doing but be aware of the clip line (at the top of the clip)
Only grab it (to move) by clicking on the right side of that line. Sonar is thinking you want to grab the selected part underneath.
I watched your video and can see where you are grabbing it from. be aware of that clip separation line on the clips header.
Hey chuckebaby, how's it going mate? I appreciate you chiming in. But I am sure I am doing exactly the same steps now as in that video but cannot reproduce it. Which is good in a way, because I don't want that issue to occur. I do want to know what I did that caused it, but I am clicking and moving from the top of the clip, to the left, to the right, just above the line, just below the line, and as The Beatles sang, here, there and everywhere. I'm normally moving so many clips so rapidly that I take all this for granted. And then suddenly I encountered this strange overlapping clip syndrome where the overlap would split away. And I couldn't stop it. For a while it seemed to be happening on a lot of clips. Now it's not happening at all. I know I must be doing something different to have made it happen, but I believe I am following all the same steps and many more. I will keep trying because it was disconcerting to see it happen last time and I realized a whole bunch of clips had been affected in one session (though luckily I backup each and every session so I could return).
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jpetersen
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Re: 27.01 issue: moving overlapping clips SPLITS CLIPS!!
2017/02/07 16:22:57
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☄ Helpfulby VariousArtist 2017/02/07 17:13:38
It happened again last night, moving single-note guitar clips (cut from a long take but not bounced-to-clip yet)
Moved two clips so they overlapped, auto crossfade did it's thing, I moved another clip a little, came back and moved the overlapping clips apart and there it was. The crossfaded bit broke off and was left behind.
Last time I was in a discussion about this phenomenon was I'm sure six months or more ago, so it's been around some time.
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jpetersen
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Re: 27.01 issue: moving overlapping clips SPLITS CLIPS!!
2017/02/07 16:57:09
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☄ Helpfulby VariousArtist 2017/02/07 17:22:29
Tried again, cannot reproduce.
I have changed no settings and it's the same track and the same clips, unchanged, no bounce-to-clip or anything like that.
It looks like it's random.
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VariousArtist
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Re: 27.01 issue: moving overlapping clips SPLITS CLIPS!!
2017/02/07 17:21:35
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jpetersen
It happened again last night, moving single-note guitar clips (cut from a long take but not bounced-to-clip yet)
Moved two clips so they overlapped, auto crossfade did it's thing, I moved another clip a little, came back and moved the overlapping clips apart and there it was. The crossfaded bit broke off and was left behind.
Last time I was in a discussion about this phenomenon was I'm sure six months or more ago, so it's been around some time.
Well I'm glad I'm not the only one, though that doesn't mean I am happy you experienced the same/similar issue. It's just a feeling of validation. And this is just my rain dance :P Seriously, I think I may have a bit more insight to this issue, though nothing definitive. I opened up the track's lanes (which I never use btw), and saw that both clips are on the same track (nothing unusual there). Then I began to move the clips around on the same lane, and I was able to very quickly reproduce the "issue". Maybe this might be expected behavior whilst in take-lanes editing mode, but I found it disconcerting especially as it didn't even do any cross-fading for overlapping clips. Instead the overlaps were "swallowed" and just seemed to disappear -- and could only be revealed by slip-editing the clips (normally I would just move clips apart and the crossfades would change, but here I was not able to do that the way I expected). I *think* that maybe there is some dual functionality that is at odds with itself. Meaning that when in track mode there is one type of clip editing behavior, but when in take lanes mode there is a different behavior. And that somehow the lanes functionality is creeping into the track functionality "randomly". I keep thinking there must be some reproducible steps when in track edit mode, but I cannot seem to ascertain what it is. So it feels random.
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Anderton
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Re: 27.01 issue: moving overlapping clips SPLITS CLIPS!!
2017/02/07 22:02:53
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VariousArtist
I opened up the track's lanes (which I never use btw), and saw that both clips are on the same track (nothing unusual there). Then I began to move the clips around on the same lane, and I was able to very quickly reproduce the "issue". Maybe this might be expected behavior whilst in take-lanes editing mode, but I found it disconcerting especially as it didn't even do any cross-fading for overlapping clips.
The "rules" for moving things around in Take Lanes are indeed different compared to moving when no Take Lanes exist.
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chuckebaby
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Re: 27.01 issue: moving overlapping clips SPLITS CLIPS!!
2017/02/08 07:10:49
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weather splitting the end of fade off is normal or not.
maybe something in the code has changed to prep for ripple editing (im just guessing)
but even if it did, this isn't a show stopper, just grab the clip from the same place you grabbing it from only be aware of that clip line in the clips header.
I was able to produce the same thing, but again this is because you are actually highlighting the clip underneath and grabbing on the wrong side of the line in the clip header. not only could I produce the same thing, I saw the same thing in your video.
just try this again and drag it but only drag it from the right side of the line, not the left side.
its not going to curb your work habits, your simply moving your mouse over less that 1 inch.
When you overlap clips, there is a translucent effect that helps us see the clips border (under the other clip)
that's what I mean by grabbing to the right of this line. (grab the clip on the right, not the one under/on the left.
This isn't random strangeness, its all about selection. Sorry for your problems :-)
I hope this gets you back to making great music.
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SMcNamara
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Re: 27.01 issue: moving overlapping clips SPLITS CLIPS!!
2017/02/08 12:48:47
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chuckebaby
your grabbing the clips in the wrong spot mate.
Try doing the exact same thing you are doing but be aware of the clip line (at the top of the clip)
Only grab it (to move) by clicking on the right side of that line. Sonar is thinking you want to grab the selected part underneath.
Chuck: Could you explain a bit more what you mean about the "clip line" and being on the wrong or right side. I'm not at my studio computer, wasn't aware location might matter, and couldn't see anything in the video to give a hint about your comment. Thanks, Steve
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chuckebaby
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Re: 27.01 issue: moving overlapping clips SPLITS CLIPS!!
2017/02/08 14:56:54
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SMcNamara
chuckebaby
your grabbing the clips in the wrong spot mate.
Try doing the exact same thing you are doing but be aware of the clip line (at the top of the clip)
Only grab it (to move) by clicking on the right side of that line. Sonar is thinking you want to grab the selected part underneath.
Chuck:
Could you explain a bit more what you mean about the "clip line" and being on the wrong or right side. I'm not at my studio computer, wasn't aware location might matter, and couldn't see anything in the video to give a hint about your comment.
Thanks,
Steve
im not going to write a whole chapter on this. my apology's if I seem ignorant, its just I've explained this way too much already. I will offer this... Watch closely @ exactly 0:57 seconds. Watch real close where he is grabbing the clip. and what happens ? "It works Perfect" correct ? you know would be helpful ? A- he removed his Cakewalk Serial number or deleted this video B- he slowed down a little bit. I find the movements on the video to be going 1000MPH.
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jpetersen
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Re: Issue: moving overlapping clips SPLITS CLIPS!!
2017/02/08 17:04:58
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I see where he is grabbing it at 0:57
But right now I cannot reproduce it no matter where I grab it.
Left, right or middle. Nothing unexpected happening.
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mettelus
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Re: Issue: moving overlapping clips SPLITS CLIPS!!
2017/02/08 18:35:57
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☄ Helpfulby chuckebaby 2017/02/08 20:50:23
I am assuming the "clip line" means where the overlap occurs, i.e. dragging by gabbing the overlapped portion causes the split, grabbing the non-overlapped portion does not.
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VariousArtist
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Re: 27.01 issue: moving overlapping clips SPLITS CLIPS!!
2017/02/08 21:39:32
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chuckebaby
weather splitting the end of fade off is normal or not.
maybe something in the code has changed to prep for ripple editing (im just guessing)
but even if it did, this isn't a show stopper, just grab the clip from the same place you grabbing it from only be aware of that clip line in the clips header.
I was able to produce the same thing, but again this is because you are actually highlighting the clip underneath and grabbing on the wrong side of the line in the clip header. not only could I produce the same thing, I saw the same thing in your video.
just try this again and drag it but only drag it from the right side of the line, not the left side.
its not going to curb your work habits, your simply moving your mouse over less that 1 inch.
When you overlap clips, there is a translucent effect that helps us see the clips border (under the other clip)
that's what I mean by grabbing to the right of this line. (grab the clip on the right, not the one under/on the left.
This isn't random strangeness, its all about selection. Sorry for your problems :-)
I hope this gets you back to making great music.
That's the issue is that I AM selecting from the same place. And the issue isn't occurring where you say it is it rather at 1:07. That's where the issue starts. And I have followed closely doing the same thing and cannot reproduce it now. I do extensive clip movements and not had this issue before. I've been using Cakewalk/Sonar since The came out on floppies. This is not a frivolous or carelessly noted issue. And yes, when it does happen it *is* a showstopper for me
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jpetersen
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Re: Issue: moving overlapping clips SPLITS CLIPS!!
2017/02/09 14:17:13
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Well, I think we finally have some concrete proof in the form of the video, even if not quite perfect.
VariousArtist, would you object if I post this to the Problem Reports forum?
Or would you like to do the honors?
It's your video...
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brundlefly
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Re: Issue: moving overlapping clips SPLITS CLIPS!!
2017/02/09 15:38:49
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☄ Helpfulby Klaus 2017/02/10 17:41:15
Late to the party, and haven't read through the whole thread in detail, but I reported an issue a while back with clip fades being split off as separate clips when increasing overlap in a lane with a crossfade that was created automatically by the Comp tool (as opposed to moving clips into overlap in the parent track with lanes not showing). This was 100% reproducible in 2016.8.
In general, it seems best to avoid mixing Comping workflow with manually splitting, cross-fading and moving clips around. Comping logic depends on comped sections in different lanes remaining in alignment. If it's necessary to reposition something, finish comping together the best parts of the different takes first, then flatten the comp and make any manual splits and moves to the flattened comp.
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Keith Albright [Cakewalk]
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Re: Issue: moving overlapping clips SPLITS CLIPS!!
2017/02/21 12:47:00
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Note that for 2017.02 we adjusted the hit zones for the comping tools. They are now a bit more clearly delineated by the mid point line in a stereo clip or the -inf line of a mono audio clip. Below the line is comping tools, above, selection/etc., caption area of clip is still where you move the clip.
Further there were some cursor issues that we also fixed. In particular when the Help Module was open the cursor would sometimes revert to the normal cursor which could be misleading.
Try it out in the update and let us know how it works for you now.
Keith
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DJRadboy
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Re: Issue: moving overlapping clips SPLITS CLIPS!!
2017/04/08 17:01:30
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I also experienced this issue when two audio clips overlap in one track and wanting only to move one independently. The problem was the overlapping portions in 2nd clip were getting selected too. Cause was the two clips were in same Clip Selection Group.
To remove a clip from the group, select the individual clip and click in following:
[Track view] Clips > Remove from Clip Selection Group
After this, the individual clip can be moved without duplicating the overlapping portion(s) and taking them along.
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