Issue with friend/long distance recording partner and his hardware/software setup.

 
I really wasn't sure what area to post in with this, as it could be included in the hardware, software, computer groups plus possibly others.  Moderators...if this belongs in another area, please feel free to move it with my apologies.  Could be somewhat lengthy...will try to keep it short.
 
This deals with one of my best friends from college.  We've been recording for around 25 years (yikes) long distance (off and on in the last 10).  Starting with 4 track cassettes and working up to Cakewalk Pro Audio 9 and Delta 1010 cards (each of us had this setup).  Sadly, that's where he stopped upgrading.
 
Well..he is working on the computer he's had since 2001 or 2002 and still using Pro Audio 9.  No VST support back then and he uses a drum machine that is (if I remember) something he's had since the late 80s or early 90s and it sounds TERRIBLE in my mind.  No matter how good a riff is that he sends me...the drums absolutely kill it.  And the sounds don't seem to link up with GM or anything I have in order to replace his sounds with mine.
 
He only recently started syncing the drums to cakewalk (before that the measures wouldn't time up properly)
 
I tried to get him to upgrade to a newer version of Sonar or even something cheaper like Reaper (I own both) and start using some of the inexpensive but surprisingly good drum software out there.
 
He isn't into spending money on a new computer, and just doesn't seem to care about the advantages of the software drums.
 
He tells me he'll get a "new drum machine" and everything will be perfect.
 
But I know it won't be.  He likes to do his drums patterns from scratch, but most of his patterns are terrible.  I thought that being able use some of the available drum loops as a starting point and then editing them might appeal to him.
 
Sorry for the vent...this is just very difficult, because it's not lack of money.  He has a very good job and makes a living far better than mine.   It's not his wife,  because he isn't currently married.  It's more that he doesn't want the aggravation spending the money and setting it up.  And he's actually happy with what he's got. (And really, who am I to piss on his cornflakes?)
 
So...ARE there any newer drum machines with GOOD sounds or at least GM compatible so that I could replace the samples with the software I have?  Or other suggestions?  You could be saving a friendship and recording partnership here! :)
 
Thank you all, and Happy Holidays!

The new machine would be for him.
 
And as far as the terrible patterns (not ALL of them, mind you...but enough of them ;) ) I had thought if he went to something like EZDrummer that the numerous patterns (user editable) would help him sound a little more authentic. 
 
 
 

Well...honestly, I'd rather he didn't go with a drum machine at all...but that seems to be the only way he's willing to go.
 
And he doesn't do individual drum tracks...He just comes out of the L/R on the machine in a stereo mix and records straight in to cakewalk.  I'm telling you....until just recently, he didn't even bother syncing the two...so measures did not match up.
 
I'm sure we'll figure out something...it's just that this has been an issue for a long time.  And..I'm probably being a little rough on the "terrible" tracks comment.  I was just a little frustrated earlier.
 
Let me rephrase...his patterns (many of them) don't sound, to me, like anything a real drummer would (in some cases COULD) play. 
 
The thing is, I've always been the one (going back 25 years) that has been more concerned with sound quality, a decent mix, etc.  With him, if he likes the riff/progression and there's sound on the track, he's pretty much satisfied. 
 
I'm just looking for his drums to sound more drum and less machine. 
 
As far as replacing...I don't think his drum machine follows GM standards as I tried replacing the sounds once, and nothing really  matched up.
 
I'll figure something out.. If I have to rework his parts, I'll just do it.
 
Bapu, I thank you for your time and ear.  Happy Holidays! :)

I can commiserate with the OP a lot. I had a friend from college who was an awesome keyboard player, and tracked her down a few years ago and got "I just have a baby grand in my house now." Sort of gave me the "Fat lot of good this line of thinking will get me..."
 
I may be confused reading your posts... I think I caught that he is sending you separate drum/instrument tracks, but the drum pattern is a simple audio mix from his machine and you are mostly concerned to map this to something else...
 
I never owned 8.5 and the last time I used 7 was so long ago that I forget what it looks like, so take this with a grain of salt. Recently I had frustrations with complex drum patterns creating step sequencer issues on me, and I saw a few posts on Geist which turned out to be "my solution." It is actually an incredibly powerful program (mini-DAW) in some cases, but is a very nice "drum machine" with full sampling/slicing capabilities. Within SONAR it has been very useful for me as it can be MIDI-triggered, and then used to fire off another drum set (or its internal sounds). It turned out that was on sale this month (for $99 at a normal $249 price).
 
If he had this, it sounds like a possible solution; but even on your end, you can use the "sampler" feature to "auto load" his drum track and it will auto slice it, and load it into the drum pads... You can then adjust pattern timing, etc. fairly quickly, and even replace the drums with other sounds. Since you said he may not be overly zealous to learn "new" it may be a difficult pill to swallow, but once you use it some it becomes very handy (like all things). It has both VST and stand-alone mode which is also a "nice-to-have."
 
It is worth checking out at least. The minimum specs are:

• Windows XP SP2, or Windows 7 (Windows)
• OSX 10.5.8, or OSX 10.6.2 and above (Mac)
• Intel Core 2 Duo 1.86ghz (minimum)
• 2GB DDR2 RAM (minimum)
• Intel Core 2 Duo 2.53ghz and higher (recommended)
• 2GB DDR3 RAM (recommended)

   And they have a demo version available for download. The sale is good through 12/31. Here is a link to it in case you are interested: http://www.fxpansion.com/index.php?page=120
 

I'm not offering any technical solutions, but understand your relationship with your friend, for sure.  Quite frankly, it is kind of like a church band.  You're not in it to get quality, your musical "kicks", or total satisfaction out of it.
Sounds like your ongoing relationship with your friend is important, as it should be, but changing him might be like trying to change a girl and then make her your wife.... and then fit perfectly into your life.
 
I might suggest continuing with what you're doing and if your bud comes around and upgrades, gets interested in a new program or sounds, then it happens.  I think just staying in touch with this person is maybe what is more important and you're doing it on the level he feels comfortable with.
On the other hand, if you like working with others in this fashion/method, but are looking to better the results via quality, technical ways, etc... I'd search that out separate.  It may even work out you could share some of that with him and let him hear (see)what happens when you "upgrade"...or not.  Sometimes a picture is worth a 1000 words.
 
Just me being an outsider with an "outside" opinion....  Hope you understand what I'm saying.
 
Btw...skip the EZD and go straight to Superior.  No regrets, you'll see and basically just as easy.

If you download the Geist demo here is something that will let you see what I mean...
 
Geist's slicing is non-destructive, so you can take one of your friend's drum tracks (just the separate wav file) and put it someplace easy to find. Open Geist, navigate to that file and click on it...
 

 
Ensure the "Slice" and "Autoload" buttons are enabled on the left side (per above), and when it opens, select "Use Layers" on the right slicing module.
 
What Geist does is autoloads and slices the file automatically at each beat. The "use layers" allows you to load 8 beats into each pad (128 total), and the step sequencer (very top in the above pic) remembers the timing for each layer firing... i.e. "Xerox copy" Click "Done" and you have it. (Get the bpm from the slicer before hitting done, and you can then put it into the module on the lower right to get it to play like a Xerox too.)
 
The above screenshot is me slicing the first 5 seconds of "In the Air Tonight" by Phil Collins... is 94.61bpm, and the step sequencer adjust the timing of each pad accordingly to reproduce the sample slice. From there... you can change pads, timing, etc. pretty much at will.
 
BTW... I still have a Tascam 424 under my desk! I am not sure why I keep that thing there, but it is not in the way... maybe for sentimental reasons

I'm not sure I'd have that "heart to heart" talk with him.  It's like saying to your wife, you have a new girlfriend, but doesn't mean you love your wife any less.

You already know the feelings there, so act accordingly.  No need to kick the relationship in the shins.

I really didn't expect to get this much feedback. I started out intending for this to be of a more technical nature...but it seems that some of you must have had situations similar to mine in some fashion or other.
 
Yes...a lot of this is because he is one of my oldest friends, and the recordings we have done together over the years have helped me through some very tough times.  Actually..the Avatar for my profile is (my main)  guitar that he built for me from scratch when my father passed away about 5 years ago.
 
And though I don't care for his drum machine or lack of real concern regarding sound quality...he gets a surprisingly good guitar tone on "tape".  I actually asked him once about the specifics..(mic placement, etc)...his answer..."I don't know...I just stick the mic in front of the amp, turn it way up and I play".  Go figure...
 
Sidroe was correct...I was getting 2 track "mixes" to add my parts to (mp3's no less).  After discussing this with him he has conceded to sending me the bundle files.  So...that may help.
 
I'm probably not going to get into it with him (Good point Mixmkr)...after all...maybe I'm taking it too seriously.  If the stuff I do with him sounds a little hokey...so what.  I mean, we're doing it for fun, not to make money.  Hell, we haven't played in the same room (or even the same state) in years.  If we come up with something special, then I would put the hammer down and push for doing it properly.  But until then...I should probably lighten up.  He's not going to change, and neither am I.
 
And yes, Jay Tee you picked up properly on the 4 variables.  Hopefully the bundle files will alleviate at least a couple of them.  Oh...and he says he will make sure to sync the machine with cakewalk.  One thing...I may have misspoken in an earlier post.  I had thought he sent me the midi drum files at one time...but he claims his drum machine only has a MIDI in and no MIDI out....so I'm not sure what I'm remembering.
 
I really can't tell you how helpful this has been.  Even though this thread has gone way off the "official" topic.
 
Oh and Mettalus...I was a Fostex X-15 guy. ;)
 
Thanks again, folks.
 

You could run his audio track through melodyne editor and save as midi, and import that midi into superior or something, but you'd still have a fair bit of work to do seperating the individual hits to the right place on the drum map. Would probably just be easier to start from scratch.
 
Another far easier solution might be for you to send him drum tracks to play along with - only needs to be something roughly suitable at the appropriate bpm and when he sends his guitar track to you, you can easily re-do  the drums to suit.

My advice is pretty harsh. Set him adrift in the past and move toward the light. Your future looks bright.

Some folks simply enjoy playing music for the purpose of playing music, so the "my way or the highway" mentality is a bit over the top in my opinion. There are many non-destructive solutions available.

Actually it's his "friend" who has adopted the "my way or the highway" position here. He's been and is continuing to force his more modern pal into a smaller and smaller corner. I've got a buddy just like him. Great keyboardist but for years and years he continued to play the same old DX7 he bought in the 80s using the same ever more outdated sounds. No matter how much coaxing, cajoling or prodding his band mates (also buddies of mine) gave him he held steadfast to his outdated and worn out board. Then after nearly twenty five years they could stand no more...get a new axe or get canned, they told him. Reluctantly...pissing and moaning the whole time...he bought a new Motif. And the scales fell away. He was quite literally gobsmacked by the new features and abilities. So much so that he went and bought another one. He uses both now on every job and sounds great. His band mates are happy. And he personally thanked every one of them for making him get out of his rut. Of course he's still himself so he'll probably drop dead before he buys anything else. Sometimes an intervention can work wonders.