Skyline_UK
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Re: It's Probably not Worth Overthinking this..
2018/04/08 19:52:36
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☄ Helpfulby Steve_Karl 2018/04/08 20:48:48
Steve_Karl
No problem Michael. :-)
Other questions that comes to mind:
What actually was sold to BL as Cakewalk intellectual property?
Does it include SPLAT?
Would it be in violation of the agreement between BL and Gibson for BL to release and authorization patch for pre CbB versions?
A clear answer to the above would end a lot of discussion.
BL in effect bought SPLAT and the name Cakewalk, and other assets BL felt would make sense to accompany those. Gibson are left with a non-trading shell subsidiary 'empty' of those assets and that subsidiary can either stay dormant or be liquidated to tidy things away, depending on whether there are reasons to let it continue as non-trading, e.g. tax losses being carried forward for offset somewhere else in the group. The sale agreement would have stipulated that Gibson can do nothing to prejudice BandLab's commercial use of the assets it bought, so no, there is in effect no 'pre CbB' version of what used to be called Sonar Platinum. It is no longer exists. It is late software. It has gone to join the choir eternal. All that exists now is the DAW called Cakewalk by BandLab. Owners of the old Sonar Platinum can keep using it for as long as they wish, but it will never be patched, augmented or any other way maintained.
My stuff Intel Sandy Bridge i7 2600 @ 3.4GHz, 4 cores, 8 threads, 16GB RAM.OS & Programs drive: 240GB SSD
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Cakewalk by BandLab 64 bit, Studio One 3, Band In A Box 2016, Ozone 8+ too many other pluginsBandLab page
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Larry Jones
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Re: It's Probably not Worth Overthinking this..
2018/04/08 21:29:24
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sharke
...this is stuff that we agree to when we purchase a license and install the program. You went in with open eyes and were quite entitled to reject Cakewalk's offer and purchase another DAW license instead.
Your eyes may have been open, but you didn't have any choice. The "Terms of Service/End User License Agreement" has always been a corporate escape clause. They're all the same and nobody reads them because if you don't like it, you can't use the software you just bought, and in most cases you can't get your money back, either. If there were any justice, these so-called contracts would all be classified as "coerced" and invalid. sharke
This forum is a form of social media. People meet here collectively, they communicate, share ideas, post songs, offer comments, goof off, post interesting articles and generally do everything that you can do on any other social media platform. It's just a "venue" and you can either lurk or participate. BandLab is no different in that respect.
Here's the difference: This forum is very small. Scraping our data and targeting ads to us based on our participation here would cost more than you could possibly earn. Bandlab is quite large. The CEO says it's a social media site, and they are offering enticements for free, so I expect some sharing or selling of my data. That said, I have no problem with the Bandlab involvement here. Meng has shown an admirable attitude toward the whole thing, which is reassuring, and I had ~4 months to make other DAW arrangements in case this goes south, so I'll happily use SONAR and/or Cakewalk by Bandlab until I'm no longer getting value. My credit card info went to Cleverbridge, not Cakewalk or Bandlab, and as a Facebook user I can't imagine that a "social music network" could target me in a more offensive or intrusive way than Facebook does. Besides, when you have Equifax managing your financial information, why worry about Bandlab? PS: James - This is not an attack and I hope you don't read it that way.
SONAR Platinum 2017.10 • CbB • Win10 • i7/2600 • 16GB RAM • Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 • NVIDIA GeForce 8400GS
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Larry Jones
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Re: It's Probably not Worth Overthinking this..
2018/04/08 21:31:48
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bitflipper
...I understand a lot of older people have this innate mistrust and/or hatred of social media
That's because we old people are the last generation to have experienced both worlds: before and after social media. Younger people have no basis for comparison. They are far less likely to value privacy, because they've grown up in a world where it never existed. In another generation everyone will know everything about everyone else, and it'll be viewed as completely normal.
This is, in fact, Mark Zuckerberg's stated objective for Facebook.
SONAR Platinum 2017.10 • CbB • Win10 • i7/2600 • 16GB RAM • Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 • NVIDIA GeForce 8400GS
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BJN
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Re: It's Probably not Worth Overthinking this..
2018/04/08 22:35:42
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☄ Helpfulby jude77 2018/04/09 21:46:18
I find it very exciting with nothing to loose.
Gibson the betrayers are no more and we are in good hands with everything to gain
with Bandlab.
The big difference is Bandlab is not a huge comglomerate and is much more personable.
To me it equates to more certainty about the future of our DAW.
We are dealing direct to Meng.
It is a very exciting era for Cakewalk!
------------------------------------------------------- Magic: when you feel inspired to create which in turn inspires more creation. And the corollary: if magic happens inspiration might flog it to death with numerous retakes. Bart Nettle
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sharke
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Re: It's Probably not Worth Overthinking this..
2018/04/08 23:29:48
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☄ Helpfulby jude77 2018/04/09 21:46:11
Larry Jones
sharke
...this is stuff that we agree to when we purchase a license and install the program. You went in with open eyes and were quite entitled to reject Cakewalk's offer and purchase another DAW license instead.
Your eyes may have been open, but you didn't have any choice. The "Terms of Service/End User License Agreement" has always been a corporate escape clause. They're all the same and nobody reads them because if you don't like it, you can't use the software you just bought, and in most cases you can't get your money back, either. If there were any justice, these so-called contracts would all be classified as "coerced" and invalid.
sharke
This forum is a form of social media. People meet here collectively, they communicate, share ideas, post songs, offer comments, goof off, post interesting articles and generally do everything that you can do on any other social media platform. It's just a "venue" and you can either lurk or participate. BandLab is no different in that respect.
Here's the difference: This forum is very small. Scraping our data and targeting ads to us based on our participation here would cost more than you could possibly earn. Bandlab is quite large. The CEO says it's a social media site, and they are offering enticements for free, so I expect some sharing or selling of my data.
That said, I have no problem with the Bandlab involvement here. Meng has shown an admirable attitude toward the whole thing, which is reassuring, and I had ~4 months to make other DAW arrangements in case this goes south, so I'll happily use SONAR and/or Cakewalk by Bandlab until I'm no longer getting value. My credit card info went to Cleverbridge, not Cakewalk or Bandlab, and as a Facebook user I can't imagine that a "social music network" could target me in a more offensive or intrusive way than Facebook does. Besides, when you have Equifax managing your financial information, why worry about Bandlab?
PS: James - This is not an attack and I hope you don't read it that way.
I think what people forget about "data scraping" though is that they can only scrape data that you provide for them. It's quite possible to sign up to Facebook with a false name and offer them no personal information whatsoever. If companies are willing to pay for a data point which says that I, some unidentifiable rando with a false name, am interested in cats and steam engines, then good luck to them. Personally I don't have a problem with Facebook mining my data because I've never harbored any delusion about it being even the slightest bit private. I log into the site completely aware of what parts of my profile are public, and although others' mileage may vary, I actually have no problem with companies targeting ads at me based on my Facebook activity. I've tried to feel paranoid about it, but I just can't. If they somehow managed to get my medical records or my banking details from it, I'd be worried. I think the point I'm getting at is that the modern digital information age comes with a few caveats that everyone has a personal responsibility to protect themselves against. In cases where you're worried about being tracked online, use anonymous accounts and/or make a conscious effort to restrict the amount of personal information linked to that account.
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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BenMMusTech
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Re: It's Probably not Worth Overthinking this..
2018/04/08 23:39:24
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bitflipper
...I understand a lot of older people have this innate mistrust and/or hatred of social media
That's because we old people are the last generation to have experienced both worlds: before and after social media. Younger people have no basis for comparison. They are far less likely to value privacy, because they've grown up in a world where it never existed. In another generation everyone will know everything about everyone else, and it'll be viewed as completely normal.
Lol...enough with the old. I'm only 42, and I grew up in a world without social media. I also am the first generation to grow up with a computer - I've used and owned computer since I was 10. Social media is a problem...but only if you don't understand all the mechanisms. In that if you don't understand that it's a tool, much like our hand held computers...then we become tools of the tools :). Furthermore, social media really has taken the place of the talking heads and the nightly news. If you use social media properly...you free yourself from the talking heads and learn to analyse facts and data and form your own opinions...you know you learn to think for yourself. Ben
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backwoods
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Re: It's Probably not Worth Overthinking this..
2018/04/09 00:03:46
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bitflipper
Leadfoot
The big difference now is that offline Splat users are pretty much out of luck when it comes to updating to CbB...
A temporary problem. Noel has promised that an offline registration option will be forthcoming, and I have complete faith in Noel's word. Don't fall prey to the FOMO syndrome. Given that this first version of CbB is essentially the last release of Platinum, you're not missing out on anything by holding off a bit.
I think Noel said offline reg would be available if online activation was made unavailable. Seeing that owners of Platinum were gifted it when Gibson offloaded (vsts in platinum but not in bandlab too) I don't see why Platinum even needs an activation code now given than bandlab is free. edit: owners of platinum should open a bandlab account with same email so vsts carry over
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Larry Jones
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Re: It's Probably not Worth Overthinking this..
2018/04/09 01:01:21
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sharke
I think what people forget about "data scraping" though is that they can only scrape data that you provide for them. It's quite possible to sign up to Facebook with a false name and offer them no personal information whatsoever. If companies are willing to pay for a data point which says that I, some unidentifiable rando with a false name, am interested in cats and steam engines, then good luck to them.
No, the data mining involves gathering information about your Facebook "friends,' their likes and dislikes and what sites they visit and what they buy. Most of them are signed up under their real names, too, and their locations are logged by IP address. Your connection with them means something. Cross-domain cookies alert the Facebook Machine what you (and your "friends") are Googling, Bing-ing, Yahoo-ing, etc., so they can put together a profile of you even if you are pretty careful. And if just one person wishes you a happy birthday or congrats on graduating college or the like, that gets added to the profile. In the end, all they don't know is your real name. This is still no big deal to me. But I think these giant companies need to be reigned in a little regarding selling ads to the KGB in an election year.
SONAR Platinum 2017.10 • CbB • Win10 • i7/2600 • 16GB RAM • Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 • NVIDIA GeForce 8400GS
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sharke
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Re: It's Probably not Worth Overthinking this..
2018/04/09 01:21:48
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Larry Jones
sharke
I think what people forget about "data scraping" though is that they can only scrape data that you provide for them. It's quite possible to sign up to Facebook with a false name and offer them no personal information whatsoever. If companies are willing to pay for a data point which says that I, some unidentifiable rando with a false name, am interested in cats and steam engines, then good luck to them.
No, the data mining involves gathering information about your Facebook "friends,' their likes and dislikes and what sites they visit and what they buy. Most of them are signed up under their real names, too, and their locations are logged by IP address. Your connection with them means something. Cross-domain cookies alert the Facebook Machine what you (and your "friends") are Googling, Bing-ing, Yahoo-ing, etc., so they can put together a profile of you even if you are pretty careful. And if just one person wishes you a happy birthday or congrats on graduating college or the like, that gets added to the profile. In the end, all they don't know is your real name.
This is still no big deal to me. But I think these giant companies need to be reigned in a little regarding selling ads to the KGB in an election year.
That's pretty much what I meant by "the data you provide for them." I've never been phased by companies knowing my purchase history. That ship sailed a long time ago with the invention of credit cards. Stuff like this is easily avoided by anyone who's worried about it - for instance, you can clear out your cookies every day, and you can use your browser's incognito mode to browse and shop without leaving a cookie trail.
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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mudgel
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Re: It's Probably not Worth Overthinking this..
2018/04/09 01:43:23
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☄ Helpfulby backwoods 2018/04/09 02:17:01
backwoods
bitflipper
Leadfoot
The big difference now is that offline Splat users are pretty much out of luck when it comes to updating to CbB...
A temporary problem. Noel has promised that an offline registration option will be forthcoming, and I have complete faith in Noel's word. Don't fall prey to the FOMO syndrome. Given that this first version of CbB is essentially the last release of Platinum, you're not missing out on anything by holding off a bit.
I think Noel said offline reg would be available if online activation was made unavailable. Seeing that owners of Platinum were gifted it when Gibson offloaded (vsts in platinum but not in bandlab too) I don't see why Platinum even needs an activation code now given than bandlab is free.
edit: owners of platinum should open a bandlab account with same email so vsts carry over
My comment to that is that Platinum owners with the full paid up app also had a range of plugins that come with the package. Those plugins are not included in Version 24.04 released by BandLab. So it’s not an equal replacement from that perspective. While it’s true you can use your activated Splat plugins in CbB will that continue? I don’t recall having read anything from Meng or Noel on that subject.
Mike V. (MUDGEL) STUDIO: Win 10 Pro x64, SPlat & CbB x64, PC: ASUS Z370-A, INTEL i7 8700k, 32GIG DDR4 2400, OC 4.7Ghz. Storage: 7 TB SATA III, 750GiG SSD & Samsung 500 Gig 960 EVO NVMe M.2. Monitors: Adam A7X, JBL 10” Sub. Audio I/O & DSP Server: DIGIGRID IOS & IOX. Screen: Raven MTi + 43" HD 4K TV Monitor. Keyboard Controller: Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S88.
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Mosvalve
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Re: It's Probably not Worth Overthinking this..
2018/04/09 02:10:44
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There is not going to be an offline authorization. I'm not buying it. Bandlab wants everyone to use the new version because that's what they own. There is no reason for them to give us authorization for Sonar Platinum. This is what I believe now.
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Cactus Music
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Re: It's Probably not Worth Overthinking this..
2018/04/09 03:03:03
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I get a kick out of this "They have my personal info" What did you give them? I'm Cactus Music... I don't have a birth certificate or have even an Address.. All I ever posted was I live "in the Bush BC" They don't have my phone number or a credit card number. Purchases were made via Cleverbridge a 3rd party store.
I have the software, for life.
Judging by how we have been treated so far I'm not predicting loosing the Server unless Bandlab themselves give up on this whole thing.
And now we have Cakewalk Bandlab I don't really care about my old version.
All the additional content is in my hands as well as the serial numbers. There are a few exceptions it would seem, but I have more VST's than I can ever use so if I end up loosing something it's not a show stopper.
Back to Craig's OP- It's not an update like the last few years because it does not overwrite Splat. It's more like the upGRADE from X3 to Splat. And it's more like Artist than Splat if it was all you had. We still need our old content to have all the goodies.
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Anderton
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Re: It's Probably not Worth Overthinking this..
2018/04/09 04:24:57
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Mosvalve
There is not going to be an offline authorization. I'm not buying it. Bandlab wants everyone to use the new version because that's what they own. There is no reason for them to give us authorization for Sonar Platinum. This is what I believe now. I suspect they believe that at some point CbB will be a more compelling program than 2017.10, so people will voluntarily switch to a better program that's free. Remember that if you use MIDI, MPE is already here and MIDI-CI has been ratified. Additions to the MIDI spec with higher resolution are slated by the end of the year. Granted, none of this obsoletes previous MIDI gear or software (the MMA and AMEI have made that a priority) but I think by next year at this time, 2017.10 is going to look pretty long in the tooth. And who knows what Windows will have done by then. Whether there's an offline authorization for the remaining users, BandLab just keeps the authorization servers going, or they end up feeling it's the same situation as 32-bit users and there aren't enough to justify spending time on them, I have no idea. The main point is there is an exit strategy for existing users, which is to download the program that will be supported in the future. I have no dog in this fight. I work with several companies and am using multiple programs because my main activity these days is writing books, and I need to know how all the programs work more than ever. My opinion is based not on how things are now, but how the industry will be in a year and how the users and the company will react to ongoing changes. My predictions don't come with a guarantee, but I've had a pretty good track record.
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ampfixer
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Re: It's Probably not Worth Overthinking this..
2018/04/09 05:57:31
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Says the guy that helped put Gibson and Cakewalk together.
Regards, John I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps. WIN 10 Pro X64, I7-3770k 16 gigs, ASUS Z77 pro, AMD 7950 3 gig, Steinberg UR44, A-Pro 500, Sonar Platinum, KRK Rokit 6
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Skyline_UK
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Re: It's Probably not Worth Overthinking this..
2018/04/09 09:16:34
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☄ Helpfulby mike.kennedy 2018/04/09 09:30:59
Larry Jones
bitflipper
...I understand a lot of older people have this innate mistrust and/or hatred of social media
That's because we old people are the last generation to have experienced both worlds: before and after social media. Younger people have no basis for comparison. They are far less likely to value privacy, because they've grown up in a world where it never existed. In another generation everyone will know everything about everyone else, and it'll be viewed as completely normal.
This is, in fact, Mark Zuckerberg's stated objective for Facebook.
Yes, and I wonder if the twerp really believes his own nonsense? Why on earth would I want, or need to be, 'connected' to everyone else in the world???? I prefer the old fashioned extreme robber barons with their fat bellies, waistcoats and gold fob watches, at least they didn't slyly cloak their intentions in silicon valley pseudo-mankind-benefits hogwash. Although the towering arrogance of both types are equally revolting.
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Cakewalk by BandLab 64 bit, Studio One 3, Band In A Box 2016, Ozone 8+ too many other pluginsBandLab page
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olemon
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Re: It's Probably not Worth Overthinking this..
2018/04/09 10:02:26
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bitflipper
Leadfoot
The big difference now is that offline Splat users are pretty much out of luck when it comes to updating to CbB...
A temporary problem. Noel has promised that an offline registration option will be forthcoming, and I have complete faith in Noel's word. Don't fall prey to the FOMO syndrome. Given that this first version of CbB is essentially the last release of Platinum, you're not missing out on anything by holding off a bit.
Holding off a bit while continuing to work in the replacement daw is my plan. I have no ideas about how to replace this forum though :(
https://www.reverbnation.com/scottholson Platinum, Studio One 3 Pro, Win 10 (x64), AMD FX-8350, ASUS M5A97 R2.0, 16GB, RME UCX, Digimax DP88, Faderport 8, Revive Audio Mod Studio Channel, Vintage Audio M72, Summit Audio TLA-50, KRK Rokit 5 G2 Monitors, Guitars "If you wait till the last minute, it only takes a minute."
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pwalpwal
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Re: It's Probably not Worth Overthinking this..
2018/04/09 12:03:59
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craig, any idea what's happening for steam users? there is currently still no official representation over there, and the silence is deafening... can't believe nobody at bandlab uses steam?
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bdickens
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Re: It's Probably not Worth Overthinking this..
2018/04/09 13:06:31
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JohanSebatianGremlin
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Re: It's Probably not Worth Overthinking this..
2018/04/09 13:24:27
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Anderton
Maybe I'm underthinking this, but it seems to me that CbB is pretty much like downloading a monthly update, except you're getting it through BandLab Assistant instead of Command Center. That's the way it appears to me as well with one small difference. This will install separate from your existing install instead of over it the way a traditional update would. So maybe I'm underthinking it too, but I just don't see any upside to installing at this point. Its going to increase the size of my Sonar install (turns one install into two) and from what I can tell, it doesn't fix anything. It also doesn't add much except a new look to the PRV which might be great or might be horrible. To be honest I've never found myself wishing PRV looked any different than it does. Then again, right wrong or indifferent, I've always taken a wait and see attitude toward first gen releases of pretty much everything both software and hardware related. This is BandLab's first stab at a Sonar release. While there might not be much downside to installing it, there's not much in the way of upside either. What I have works for now, I'm going to leave it as is and see what develops in the future.
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Starise
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Re: It's Probably not Worth Overthinking this..
2018/04/09 13:52:40
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The delivery system depending on a software "front end" isn't new and is adopted all over with lots of software companies. If this is how I get my updates I'm ok with that personally. The time between updates isn't that important to me. Ableton waited 4 years. Knocking out some of the more serious bugs three or four times a year would be fine with me. Frankly I don't like the idea of a forced monthly update scheme. The software engineer should not feel pressured IMO. I want him to feel like he has the time to get it right. No rush, just get it right. Getting it right trumps a timed release update
Forget adding novelty with no real purpose. Just continue build a solid easy to use program and keep it current.
Intel 5820K O.C. 4.4ghz, ASRock Extreme 4 LGA 2011-v3, 16 gig DDR4, , 3 x Samsung SATA III 500gb SSD, 2X 1 Samsung 1tb 7200rpm outboard, Win 10 64bit, Laptop HP Omen i7 16gb 2/sdd with Focusrite interface. CbB, Studio One 4 Pro, Mixcraft 8, Ableton Live 10 www.soundcloud.com/starise Twitter @Rodein
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ionecake
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Re: It's Probably not Worth Overthinking this..
2018/04/09 14:00:12
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☄ Helpfulby jude77 2018/04/09 21:50:34
ampfixer
Says the guy that helped put Gibson and Cakewalk together.
We don't need to be hard on Craig, he certainly couldn't have predicted how poorly Gibson would manage things (although they didn't have a good track record already, but Craig wasn't an Executive Vice President of Gibson yet, so I would like to think the best of his predictive powers that he couldn't have foreseen the business issues at that point). Although one might have seen red flags with Gibson's handling of Opcode, but maybe Craig forgot about that. Also keep in mind that lots of people put the Gibson and Cakewalk deal together, plus Cakewalk was losing money for years and years, there are numbers back from the 2010 era that show a pretty rough outlook. So Cakewalk was having a lot of troubles, and I'm not so sure Gibson could have saved them even if they knew what they were doing, which they obviously didn't. So it's easy to blame with 20/20 hindsight, and it doesn't get us anywhere productive. Craig was just trying to save Cakewalk at the time. Can't help it if he couldn't predict the future. If anything, going to Gibson might have been just the lucky break Cakewalk needed before Meng and BandLab came along. Who knows? EDIT: And also BTW, Craig was, as you may recall, fired from Gibson, so he definitely can't be blamed for what happened at the end. As far as we know, he could have been one of the few sane voices over there. In an interview, he describes working at Gibson as "stressful" and like "white water rafting" -- not exactly a stable environment for Cakewalk. At least Gibson gave it a shot, so we have to give them a little credit, but they were obviously not the right partner for Cakewalk. Here's to hoping that Meng/BandLab will continue to have the passion to help Cakewalk thrive in the years to come.
post edited by ionecake - 2018/04/09 14:25:02
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bitflipper
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Re: It's Probably not Worth Overthinking this..
2018/04/09 14:17:20
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BenMMusTech
Social media is a problem...but only if you don't understand all the mechanisms.
And therein lies the problem: we don't understand all the mechanisms. I like to think I'm a tech-savvy guy. I build databases for a living, and design data-mining applications. But there are no doubt a great many mechanisms out there that I know nothing about. Legit businesses such as banks, lenders and retailers (physical and virtual) that sell your information. Smartphone apps that can copy your address book and send spam to all your friends. You don't have to knowingly volunteer information to have it disseminated.
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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57Gregy
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Re: It's Probably not Worth Overthinking this..
2018/04/09 14:17:48
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Wait, what? We have to give them our credit card number for something that's free?
Shades of Netflix's (and others) 'Free' trials.
What would I gain going from X3e to CbB? Or, which of the stickies has that info?
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bitflipper
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Re: It's Probably not Worth Overthinking this..
2018/04/09 14:39:04
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BTW, BandLab's privacy policy is here. It's pretty straightforward and easy to understand. Some extracts regarding how your information will be used: To provide personalised Content to you and others such as Followers and Band Members or other interest segment updates, personalised online advertisements or other forms of marketing We only collect and use Information for purposes for which you have consented. If we need to use your Information for any purpose to which you have not previously consented, we will seek your consent prior to using your Information for the new purpose.
We may share your Information with the following parties:
a) “Related Entities” of BandLab Singapore Pte Ltd: These are businesses that are legally part of the same group of companies that BandLab Singapore Pte Ltd is part of, or that become part of that group.
b) “Service Providers”: These are our agents or third party contractors of. We engage them to assist us in providing and managing aspects of the Services, such as developing the Services’ features and functionality, marketing, processing payments, processing data or statistics, hosting Content, providing server space, reviewing Content for compliance with our Terms of Use, and legal advice.
c) “Third Party Advertisers”: We may provide Information to Third Party advertisers so that they can notify you of events or products which may be of interest to you. For instance, you may be notified of an upcoming concert or product release.
d) Analytics Services: We may use third party analytics providers and products to obtain, compile and analyse Information (including but not limited to, information from cookies, log files, device identifiers, location data, and usage data), and may provide such Information to these analytics providers for the purpose of obtaining statistics and other information about how Users are using and interacting with the Services.
e) We may remove parts of data that can identify you and share anonymised data with other parties. We may also combine your information with other information in a way that it is no longer associated with you and share that aggregated information.
We may change or update portions of this Privacy Policy at any time and without prior notice to you. One weasel-word I don't see in there is "affiliates". This is the loophole that allows my bank to sell my data to third parties.
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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scook
Forum Host
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Re: It's Probably not Worth Overthinking this..
2018/04/09 15:09:46
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57Gregy
Wait, what? We have to give them our credit card number for something that's free?
Shades of Netflix's (and others) 'Free' trials.
No credit card required to set up an account. 57Gregy
What would I gain going from X3e to CbB? Or, which of the stickies has that info?
4 years of bug fixes and new features
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Larry Jones
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Re: It's Probably not Worth Overthinking this..
2018/04/09 16:59:01
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Skyline_UK
Larry Jones
bitflipper
...I understand a lot of older people have this innate mistrust and/or hatred of social media
That's because we old people are the last generation to have experienced both worlds: before and after social media. Younger people have no basis for comparison. They are far less likely to value privacy, because they've grown up in a world where it never existed. In another generation everyone will know everything about everyone else, and it'll be viewed as completely normal.
This is, in fact, Mark Zuckerberg's stated objective for Facebook.
Yes, and I wonder if the twerp really believes his own nonsense? Why on earth would I want, or need to be, 'connected' to everyone else in the world???? I prefer the old fashioned extreme robber barons with their fat bellies, waistcoats and gold fob watches, at least they didn't slyly cloak their intentions in silicon valley pseudo-mankind-benefits hogwash. Although the towering arrogance of both types are equally revolting.
The twerp may or may not believe his own BS, but either way the "belief" is very good for his company. It's hard for me to accept, though, that every time Facebook gets caught losing or sharing or selling data we thought was to remain private, Zuckerberg and Sandberg are shocked, shocked! that this could have happened, they had no idea, they were so wrong and they sincerely apologize to their users for this (latest} perversion of their altruistic philosophy, and they are taking steps to correct the mistake. But nobody gets fired and a year or two later they are caught again doing the same thing. It's a big company, filled with software developers. They know exactly what they're doing. When they -- or any big, free, online service -- pretend otherwise, they are lying. As users, we need to understand that. As more and more powerful data-gathering methods are invented and deployed, the notion of personal privacy becomes a house of mirrors. Give up your secrets when and where you want, but don't kid yourself: your information is being used, and not for your benefit.
SONAR Platinum 2017.10 • CbB • Win10 • i7/2600 • 16GB RAM • Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 • NVIDIA GeForce 8400GS
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Larry Jones
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Re: It's Probably not Worth Overthinking this..
2018/04/09 17:09:51
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bitflipper
BTW, BandLab's privacy policy is here. It's pretty straightforward and easy to understand. Some extracts regarding how your information will be used:
***********************SNIP****************************
One weasel-word I don't see in there is "affiliates". This is the loophole that allows my bank to sell my data to third parties.
I haven't read many of these, but this one seems pretty much like the ones I have. Don't read too much into the words that are left out. I'm not knocking Bandlab, just being real about what they are most likely up to. And even if their intentions are not sinister (I assume they're not) they will gather a trove of good data about their users, and that data will become a target for hackers, advertisers and others (use your imagination).
SONAR Platinum 2017.10 • CbB • Win10 • i7/2600 • 16GB RAM • Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 • NVIDIA GeForce 8400GS
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iRelevant
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Re: It's Probably not Worth Overthinking this..
2018/04/09 18:00:44
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Larry Jones
bitflipper
BTW, BandLab's privacy policy is here. It's pretty straightforward and easy to understand. Some extracts regarding how your information will be used:
***********************SNIP****************************
One weasel-word I don't see in there is "affiliates". This is the loophole that allows my bank to sell my data to third parties.
I haven't read many of these, but this one seems pretty much like the ones I have. Don't read too much into the words that are left out. I'm not knocking Bandlab, just being real about what they are most likely up to. And even if their intentions are not sinister (I assume they're not) they will gather a trove of good data about their users, and that data will become a target for hackers, advertisers and others (use your imagination).
It was obvious from the get go that Google and the later Anti-Social Media iterations, are fundamentally intelligence operations operating under a commercial facade. In another generation They hope to know everything about everybody else. Full spectrum dominance. Total control. You can thank them for your president. Zappa had something to say about freedom, something to the effect : how it is a show that is kept rolling as long as it is profitable, when the show is over and the canvas rolls up ... your staring into a brick wall. Just my 2 cent.
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jimfogle
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Re: It's Probably not Worth Overthinking this..
2018/04/09 18:45:23
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ampfixer
snip ... They have no responsibility to me in any way. If my Cakewalk purchased stuff stops working they don't have to help me. They are a completely new and un-tethered entity.
Fair enough. But why am I being coerced into a relationship with this new company in order to use the goods I bought from the company that is now gone.snip ... This does not prevent me from using the Cakewalk software I have paid for, but Bandlab now says I have to go through them to do so. I want nothing to do with Bandlab really, it's not my thing, I don't do social media. I believe your interpretation of the situation is incorrect. Sometime before December, 2017 you purchased a software program called Sonar from a company called Cakewalk. Cakewalk required you to install a file manager application called Command Center to manage installation of your Cakewalk software products by requiring online authentication. Gibson paid for the computer servers that ran the Cakewalk authentication process and the forum. When Cakewalk ceased sales and operation the Chief Technical Officer of Cakewalk, Noel, stated Gibson would continue to maintain the computer servers indefinitely. Continued server operation allowed the command center application to authorize new or re-installs of legacy software products that require online authentication during installation. This also allowed user provided support of legacy products to continue through the forum. When Bandlab purchased the Cakewalk assets, computer server operation switched from Gibson to Bandlab. The switch was seamless so that's it. Nothing changed except who operates and pays for the computer servers. Gibson use to but now Bandlab does. Your legacy software still has access to online authentication and the forum is still available to offer user provided support. End of THAT story. New story. Bandlab decides to release the software program formerly named Sonar Platinum. The new name is Cakewalk by Bandlab. You can obtain Cakewalk by Bandlab by installing the software file manager called Bandlab Assistant. Bandlab indicates their team will continue Cakewalk by Bandlab development. Related story. Bandlab has expressed interest in updating drivers for the Cakewalk hardware system VS700. Bandlab has also indicated it wants to update and release other legacy Cakewalk plug-in products as well as develop new plug-ins.
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jpetersen
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Re: It's Probably not Worth Overthinking this..
2018/04/09 18:51:46
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Leadfoot
The big difference now is that offline Splat users are pretty much out of luck when it comes to updating to CbB...
My problem exactly. But it's early days and lots of things still being sorted out in the lab.
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